Flocks of Lawyers Circling WDW ???

[donsullivan]

Yes. It was kind of mind boggling how few scooters there were at DLP after being used to DW. Almost none. There were also far fewer strollers, for what its worth. Soft sided wagons for multiple kids seemed the most common thing.

I noticed this as well. I spent nearly 2 weeks in France and Germany in late May including 4 days at DLP. I was hitting top tourist locations throughout Paris and all around the French countryside and in the course of the trip I saw less than 5 ECV's combined in all of the locations I visited. They are clearly just not as common in western Europe as they have become in the US, especially Florida.

 

[Sparkyco]

I noticed this as well. I spent nearly 2 weeks in France and Germany in late May including 4 days at DLP. I was hitting top tourist locations throughout Paris and all around the French countryside and in the course of the trip I saw less than 5 ECV's combined in all of the locations I visited. They are clearly just not as common in western Europe as they have become in the US, especially Florida.

Yeah, I know when my inlaws went on a European river cruise a couple of years ago, same thing. My FIL has MS and uses ECV. They were fine on the cruise ship, of course, however they ran into many issues at the various port cities. There do not seem to be the ADA laws in European countries, therefore he found it very difficult to get around anywhere in most places they visited. Maybe because ECV's aren't nearly as common over there?

 

[Westcoastwild]

Yeah, I know when my inlaws went on a European river cruise a couple of years ago, same thing. My FIL has MS and uses ECV. They were fine on the cruise ship, of course, however they ran into many issues at the various port cities. There do not seem to be the ADA laws in European countries, therefore he found it very difficult to get around anywhere in most places they visited. Maybe because ECV's aren't nearly as common over there?

They were fighting about this a few years ago in Paris. Ecvs may not be common but wheelchairs certainly are. They're trying to make at least the public buildings accessible. But it's complicated. I don't know how much of it is people's mindset and how much is the impracticality of making everything accessible.

My guess is that your inlaws were in the historic districts because that's where most tourists are. I've seen wheelchair lifts in modern museums over there, as well as in the newer built hotels. Bus system is accessible. Historical building alterations are restricted by heritage building codes, so those places can get exemptions. Older cities in the US have the same issues. Ada requires them to make reasonable accommodations but if there's no way to do so, they don't. And think about how old the metro is let alone the streets, sidewalks and buildings.

 

[DrunkJam]

They were fighting about this a few years ago in Paris. Ecvs may not be common but wheelchairs certainly are. They're trying to make at least the public buildings accessible. But it's complicated. I don't know how much of it is people's mindset and how much is the impracticality of making everything accessible.

My guess is that your inlaws were in the historic districts because that's where most tourists are. I've seen wheelchair lifts in modern museums over there, as well as in the newer built hotels. Bus system is accessible. Historical building alterations are restricted by heritage building codes, so those places can get exemptions. Older cities in the US have the same issues. Ada requires them to make reasonable accommodations but if there's no way to do so, they don't. And think about how old the metro is let alone the streets, sidewalks and buildings.

yes, here in UK all new builds have to be accessible but some historical buildings cannot be rendered accessible due to age and heritage / listed building / etc, in this case such buildings are exempt. Currently EU is somewhat similar.

 

[donsullivan]

Yeah, I know when my inlaws went on a European river cruise a couple of years ago, same thing. My FIL has MS and uses ECV. They were fine on the cruise ship, of course, however they ran into many issues at the various port cities. There do not seem to be the ADA laws in European countries, therefore he found it very difficult to get around anywhere in most places they visited. Maybe because ECV's aren't nearly as common over there?

Most of the historic areas do seem to be exempted in many ways from these sorts of regulations. I encountered stuff like a hotel with no ground floor guest rooms and no elevator in the shoreside village at Mont St Michel (I sure regretted packing so heavy that night). Or a bed and breakfast in Mer (built less than 2 years ago) with course stone gravel parking and walking paths which do not go well with a spinner suitcase and no mobility devices wheelchair or ECV could pass thru. In many of the historic areas there are lots of cobblestone streets which are distinctly incompatible with mobility assistive devices of any kind. I was less surprised when I got away from Paris and DLP but extremely surprised while I was in the more metropolitan areas how few I saw. In 6 days in that area I saw a total of 4 and never another one any place else I visited.

 

[jknezek]

That's true. When you grandfather buildings in Europe, you pretty much grandfather all the history. The other thing is healthcare doesn't work the same. Since in many countries it is government run, you really need to prove you need an ECV versus a walker or wheelchair. There is no company on TV promising you can have one "with no money out of pocket, your insurance will pay!" Their definition of medically necessary is different from ours because of how healthcare works.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

That's true. When you grandfather buildings in Europe, you pretty much grandfather all the history. The other thing is healthcare doesn't work the same. Since in many countries it is government run, you really need to prove you need an ECV versus a walker or wheelchair. There is no company on TV promising you can have one "with no money out of pocket, your insurance will pay!" Their definition of medically necessary is different from ours because of how healthcare works.

That is interesting.

I paid out of pocket for my scooter.

 

[donsullivan]

That's true. When you grandfather buildings in Europe, you pretty much grandfather all the history. The other thing is healthcare doesn't work the same. Since in many countries it is government run, you really need to prove you need an ECV versus a walker or wheelchair. There is no company on TV promising you can have one "with no money out of pocket, your insurance will pay!" Their definition of medically necessary is different from ours because of how healthcare works.

I've believed for many years that the growth of ECV's in the US happened when the mfg's figured out how to get insurance (private or govt) to pay for them. Once they started advertising that you could get one for no out of pocket expense the use exploded. Since I live in FL, I'm guessing we see a lot more of those ads here but it does seem to be a driver of growth in the number of people with them.