Elephant In the Room... But...

[tidefan]

When it cost a family of four over 20,000 for a European cruise I think it’s enevitable that discussions on alternative cruise lines is going to happen. I’m not sure what OP expects people to do ignore the elephant in the room...which is Disney’s pricing. For most people cost is the number one factor in choosing a vacation. If its not then consider yourself very lucky.

Food for thought:

You know, when you talk about Disney's pricing, especially for those cruises, it is also worth bringing up the point that that $20,000 for 4 people in a Verandah is about $8,000+ dollars less for those same 4 people in an inside room (which is about the same size, minus the verandah). So, another thing to ask is: Is the Balcony worth that amount of price difference?

 

[mevelandry]

I just came upon this thread, and although I've never cruised DCL...I'm a avid cruiser. So far Carnival is my favorite. Didn't like Royal, and I do like NCL. To me, cruising is just so simple, get on the boat and start the party! I'd love to try DCL, but unfortunately it is out of my budget. There is always something to like and something to complain about on any cruise. When my sister and I first went on Royal, we started making faces, right away. This particular cruise was recommended by a Royal Activist...LOL...so we decided to take her advice. Things were smelly and old, but we didn't want to be disappointed, especially since we just got on...so we started to look for things we liked about the ship. By end of the cruise we are happy to report we had a blast! We met some cool people and had so much fun. We also laughed and joked about our friend's particular taste in cruiselines, and we got to make fun of her (in a nice way). We did decide Royal isn't for us, but we're glad we didn't let first impressions ruin our cruise.

This remind me of a similar experience with the Carnival Sensation. We love DCL and we already loved Carnival based on our cruises on the Victory & the Vista... And then, we sailed on the Carnival Sensation.

No joke, I think almost every single cliché that I have ever heard about Carnival, we've experienced on that ship.

We had an amazing time on our cruise but if that cruise had been our first non-DCL cruise, we would have been back sailing exclusively with DCL 100%! Thankfully, our previous non-DCL cruises were amazing so we are not scared to go back or try something new.

 

[ray3127]

I don't think being frugal or trying to find the greater value for your buck, or thinking that DCL raise they prices a little bit too high/too fast compared to other lines is "wrong".

This misses the point. @tink1970 isn't saying that finding greater value for YOUR buck is wrong. I'm sure she would agree that everybody should do this! I think being frugal is a great thing, and I think it's fair to say DCL's prices have increased quite a bit (and to complain about them!).

But here's what's not fair, and what tink's point truly was: those who choose to cruise DCL are made to feel like we are being foolish and just don't get what cruising is all about. THAT mindset is pervasive among some on these boards. And yes, we could just ignore those comments/threads/people. But the DIS is a bit more like a community than most online message boards, and it would be nice if everybody simply respected everybody's opinions and experiences without suggesting they are wrong, misguided, foolish, or ignorant.

I also don't think it's very nice to characterize an experience that somebody finds meaningful, such as meeting a character on a Disney Cruise, as "hugging an adult in a costume", or whatever the exact quote was. I thought that was very rude, and exactly the kind of condescending thing that does more to hurt these boards than help them. If you don't care for the character greetings, I completely understand and don't hold it against you. It's simply enough to say "I don't care for the character greetings, so those don't add any value for me."

Lastly, I've only been on 2 cruises. They happen to be DCL cruises. I'd like to cruise other lines, but I live in Nebraska and have young kids, so it's not an easy task. Still, I previously had cruises booked on NCL, RCCL, and Celebrity at one time or another. I unfortunately had to cancel them for various reasons, and the two DCL ones stuck (go figure). But I had done enough research/comparisons to take the step of actually booking on those lines. I am sure that we will cruise other lines to get more bang for our buck and to experience the different ports where Disney is way overpriced at some point (Alaska keeps coming to mind), but we aren't there yet. Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter. So apparently, I should shut up and not contribute when people are asking for opinions. Between the days (really weeks or months) of research I've done, as well as countless discussions with close family members who have cruised on ALL these other lines, I feel like I should be allowed to contribute without being told I'm wrong.

As has been said several times here and elsewhere, value is subjective. What's truly foolish is to try to compare "apples to apples", because everybody views all of the differences between lines, well, differently. All we can do is share our experiences and acknowledge others' experiences. For a whole lot of people on here, simply adding up the dollar amount of a soda package to another cruise line's fare does not result in an 'apples to apples' comparison. Comments like this are counter-productive. @tidefan had a great answer that ran down all the DCL value-adds compared to other lines, but was promptly "corrected"... again, value is subjective. Right now, based on my research and the needs of my family (With children ages 5 & 1), I'm willing to pay an extra 20-30% for a DCL cruise. Would I pay 50% more? Probably not, but it depends on a whole lot of factors. Does that make me right or wrong? Neither. It makes me, me.

Just because people post pro-DCL aspects does not mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid", a "mouse-thumper", or anything else. I really don't think there's anybody on here who is a DCL diehard for life that attacks those with positive thoughts about other lines. These people simply don't exist, I'm sorry. DCL has its faults, no doubt. And this is as good a place as any to discuss those, and bring up what other lines do better. I've been frustrated with the 2-pool situation myself, and have researched other lines that do it better. I sincerely look forward to continuing to learn about other cruise lines, especially from those who enjoy DCL themselves, and ultimately cruising other lines in the future.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Food for thought:

You know, when you talk about Disney's pricing, especially for those cruises, it is also worth bringing up the point that that $20,000 for 4 people in a Verandah is about $8,000+ dollars less for those same 4 people in an inside room (which is about the same size, minus the verandah). So, another thing to ask is: Is the Balcony worth that amount of price difference?

Or $3800 for virtually the same European cruise in an inside cabin for 4 on Princess. Hard for me to pay $8000 for 4 people in an inside cabin for a week on dcl. But we are all different. And I have a thing for the love boat.

 

[tidefan]

Or $3800 for virtually the same European cruise in an inside cabin for 4 on Princess. Hard for me to pay $8000 for 4 people in an inside cabin for a week on dcl. But we are all different. And I have a thing for the love boat.

Oh, me too. Just got off of Regal Princess, and quite honestly, she is one of my favorite ships, period.

I was just making the point that even within the DCL pricing, there are anomalies.

 

[DisneyNoob13]

This misses the point. @tink1970 isn't saying that finding greater value for YOUR buck is wrong. I'm sure she would agree that everybody should do this! I think being frugal is a great thing, and I think it's fair to say DCL's prices have increased quite a bit (and to complain about them!).

But here's what's not fair, and what tink's point truly was: those who choose to cruise DCL are made to feel like we are being foolish and just don't get what cruising is all about. THAT mindset is pervasive among some on these boards. And yes, we could just ignore those comments/threads/people. But the DIS is a bit more like a community than most online message boards, and it would be nice if everybody simply respected everybody's opinions and experiences without suggesting they are wrong, misguided, foolish, or ignorant.

I also don't think it's very nice to characterize an experience that somebody finds meaningful, such as meeting a character on a Disney Cruise, as "hugging an adult in a costume", or whatever the exact quote was. I thought that was very rude, and exactly the kind of condescending thing that does more to hurt these boards than help them. If you don't care for the character greetings, I completely understand and don't hold it against you. It's simply enough to say "I don't care for the character greetings, so those don't add any value for me."

Lastly, I've only been on 2 cruises. They happen to be DCL cruises. I'd like to cruise other lines, but I live in Nebraska and have young kids, so it's not an easy task. Still, I previously had cruises booked on NCL, RCCL, and Celebrity at one time or another. I unfortunately had to cancel them for various reasons, and the two DCL ones stuck (go figure). But I had done enough research/comparisons to take the step of actually booking on those lines. I am sure that we will cruise other lines to get more bang for our buck and to experience the different ports where Disney is way overpriced at some point (Alaska keeps coming to mind), but we aren't there yet. Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter. So apparently, I should shut up and not contribute when people are asking for opinions. Between the days (really weeks or months) of research I've done, as well as countless discussions with close family members who have cruised on ALL these other lines, I feel like I should be allowed to contribute without being told I'm wrong.

As has been said several times here and elsewhere, value is subjective. What's truly foolish is to try to compare "apples to apples", because everybody views all of the differences between lines, well, differently. All we can do is share our experiences and acknowledge others' experiences. For a whole lot of people on here, simply adding up the dollar amount of a soda package to another cruise line's fare does not result in an 'apples to apples' comparison. Comments like this are counter-productive. @tidefan had a great answer that ran down all the DCL value-adds compared to other lines, but was promptly "corrected"... again, value is subjective. Right now, based on my research and the needs of my family (With children ages 5 & 1), I'm willing to pay an extra 20-30% for a DCL cruise. Would I pay 50% more? Probably not, but it depends on a whole lot of factors. Does that make me right or wrong? Neither. It makes me, me.

Just because people post pro-DCL aspects does not mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid", a "mouse-thumper", or anything else. I really don't think there's anybody on here who is a DCL diehard for life that attacks those with positive thoughts about other lines. These people simply don't exist, I'm sorry. DCL has its faults, no doubt. And this is as good a place as any to discuss those, and bring up what other lines do better. I've been frustrated with the 2-pool situation myself, and have researched other lines that do it better. I sincerely look forward to continuing to learn about other cruise lines, especially from those who enjoy DCL themselves, and ultimately cruising other lines in the future.

Well said. I mostly lurk on these boards because they are kind of troll heavy most times. Everything you said, especially in bold pretty much mirrors my thoughts. We've been on 15 cruises, all but two were with Disney. I enjoyed our two RCCL cruises, but once we started going on Disney, I enjoyed it much more and for too many reasons to enumerate here. Have I spent more than someone who has cruised with other lines? Probably. Do I care? Nope...as long as I'm satisfied with the value received (as you said, value is subjective), that's all that matters in the end.

 

[mevelandry]

1) This misses the point. @tink1970 isn't saying that finding greater value for YOUR buck is wrong. I'm sure she would agree that everybody should do this! I think being frugal is a great thing, and I think it's fair to say DCL's prices have increased quite a bit. I think it's fair to complain about that.

2) But here's what's not fair, and what tink's point truly was: those who choose to cruise DCL are made to feel like we are being foolish and just don't get what cruising is all about. THAT mindset is pervasive among some on these boards. And yes, we could just ignore those comments/threads/people. But the DIS is a bit more like a community than most online message boards, and it would be nice if everybody simply respected everybody's opinions and experiences without suggesting they are wrong, misguided, foolish, or ignorant.

3) I also don't think it's very nice to characterize an experience that somebody finds meaningful, such as meeting a character on a Disney Cruise, as "hugging an adult in a costume", or whatever the exact quote was. I thought that was very rude, and exactly the kind of condescending thing that does more to hurt these boards than help them. If you don't care for the character greetings, I completely understand and don't hold it against you. It's simply enough to say "I don't care for the character greetings, so those don't add any value for me."

4) Lastly, I've only been on 2 cruises. They happen to be DCL cruises. I'd like to cruise other lines, but I live in Nebraska and have young kids, so it's not an easy task. Still, I previously had cruises booked on NCL, RCCL, and Celebrity at one time or another. I unfortunately had to cancel them for various reasons, and the two DCL ones stuck (go figure). But I had done enough research/comparisons to take the step of actually booking on those lines. I am sure that we will cruise other lines to get more bang for our buck and to experience the different ports where Disney is way overpriced at some point (Alaska keeps coming to mind), but we aren't there yet. Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter. So apparently, I should shut up and not contribute when people are asking for opinions. Between the days (really weeks or months) of research I've done, as well as countless discussions with close family members who have cruised on ALL these other lines, I feel like I should be allowed to contribute without being told I'm wrong.

5) As has been said several times here and elsewhere, value is subjective. What's truly foolish is to try to compare "apples to apples", because everybody views all of the differences between lines, well, differently. All we can do is share our experiences and acknowledge others' experiences. For a whole lot of people on here, simply adding up the dollar amount of a soda package to another cruise line's fare does not result in an 'apples to apples' comparison. Comments like this are counter-productive. @tidefan had a great answer that ran down all the DCL value-adds compared to other lines, but was promptly "corrected"... again, value is subjective. Right now, based on my research and the needs of my family (With children ages 5 & 1), I'm willing to pay an extra 20-30% for a DCL cruise. Would I pay 50% more? Probably not, but it depends on a whole lot of factors. Does that make me right or wrong? Neither. It makes me, me.

6) Just because people post pro-DCL aspects does not mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid", a "mouse-thumper", or anything else. I really don't think there's anybody on here who is a DCL diehard for life that attacks those with positive thoughts about other lines. These people simply don't exist, I'm sorry. DCL has its faults, no doubt. And this is as good a place as any to discuss those, and bring up what other lines do better. I've been frustrated with the 2-pool situation myself, and have researched other lines that do it better. I sincerely look forward to continuing to learn about other cruise lines, especially from those who enjoy DCL themselves, and ultimately cruising other lines in the future.

Oh, dear... That's a long reply for such a short comment, will try to respond the best that I can:

1) My comment was just a side note. I did not comment on the rest of Tink1970 comment but I agreed with most of it.

2) I'm sorry if any comments made you feel that way. I hope I never made anyone feel that way and will definitely pay attention to make sure nobody feels that way in the future.

3) My exact quote was "It's okay... I'll pass. (Not a fan of hugging strangers in a costume after all LOL)". I'm surprised you considered this comment rude as I was not making fun of the poster: I was only making fun of my own fear of strangers. I'm a sissy, I fear my own shadow (just ask my husband). I've never been comfortable with characters (although I love the pictures I have with them) and I believe I've always been vocal about it on the board but I can not expect every single DISer to remember that. I'll be happy to edit my comment with that precision.

4) You say "Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter." I'd like to make an amendment here... I'm not expecting anyone to have experienced a whole bunch of different line but maybe try to abstain from passing judgments on a cruise line that you haven't tried?

5) I don't necessarily disagree with you here... but I don't agree 100% either. Probably because I "compartimentalize" aspects of cruising... To me everything that has to do with the Mouse is just part of one "section" of the list of criterias I have when it comes to cruising. But I can agree that we are analyze our experiences differently.

6) Huh, yes they do exist. I won't name names but my experience has been different. Some of us have received very harsh/snarky/snotty comments regarding the fact that we enjoyed/chose to sail on non-DCL cruise lines... (side note: And a lot of those comments came from people who had never experienced non-DCL cruise lines.)

 

[gummdrop87645]

Agreed, but there are discussions and there are those that state their opinion as fact and anyone who disagrees is called names and/or gets bashed. I think some people on here really hate Disney and seem to post here just to argue with those that don't hate Disney. There are also threads on here that only speak about other cruise lines. It always starts as a comparison thread, but now it's just a thread for folks to talk ONLY about the other cruise lines.

I am a disney cruise fan. We have been on three, I own DVC, but I am currently booked on a Royal Caribbean cruise in September to assess for myself if the value is really worth the price difference. I appreciate the Royal Caribbean thread because I know these posters are also jumping ship or already have. I like their insight because something, more then likely the love of the mouse, brought them to the Disboards. It is helping me navigate through the website and have an idea of what to expect on the ship. Just like these boards do when I go on a disney cruise. Plus the other boards are not as fun.

 

[gotomu212]

This misses the point. @tink1970 isn't saying that finding greater value for YOUR buck is wrong. I'm sure she would agree that everybody should do this! I think being frugal is a great thing, and I think it's fair to say DCL's prices have increased quite a bit (and to complain about them!).

But here's what's not fair, and what tink's point truly was: those who choose to cruise DCL are made to feel like we are being foolish and just don't get what cruising is all about. THAT mindset is pervasive among some on these boards. And yes, we could just ignore those comments/threads/people. But the DIS is a bit more like a community than most online message boards, and it would be nice if everybody simply respected everybody's opinions and experiences without suggesting they are wrong, misguided, foolish, or ignorant.

I also don't think it's very nice to characterize an experience that somebody finds meaningful, such as meeting a character on a Disney Cruise, as "hugging an adult in a costume", or whatever the exact quote was. I thought that was very rude, and exactly the kind of condescending thing that does more to hurt these boards than help them. If you don't care for the character greetings, I completely understand and don't hold it against you. It's simply enough to say "I don't care for the character greetings, so those don't add any value for me."

Lastly, I've only been on 2 cruises. They happen to be DCL cruises. I'd like to cruise other lines, but I live in Nebraska and have young kids, so it's not an easy task. Still, I previously had cruises booked on NCL, RCCL, and Celebrity at one time or another. I unfortunately had to cancel them for various reasons, and the two DCL ones stuck (go figure). But I had done enough research/comparisons to take the step of actually booking on those lines. I am sure that we will cruise other lines to get more bang for our buck and to experience the different ports where Disney is way overpriced at some point (Alaska keeps coming to mind), but we aren't there yet. Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter. So apparently, I should shut up and not contribute when people are asking for opinions. Between the days (really weeks or months) of research I've done, as well as countless discussions with close family members who have cruised on ALL these other lines, I feel like I should be allowed to contribute without being told I'm wrong.

As has been said several times here and elsewhere, value is subjective. What's truly foolish is to try to compare "apples to apples", because everybody views all of the differences between lines, well, differently. All we can do is share our experiences and acknowledge others' experiences. For a whole lot of people on here, simply adding up the dollar amount of a soda package to another cruise line's fare does not result in an 'apples to apples' comparison. Comments like this are counter-productive. @tidefan had a great answer that ran down all the DCL value-adds compared to other lines, but was promptly "corrected"... again, value is subjective. Right now, based on my research and the needs of my family (With children ages 5 & 1), I'm willing to pay an extra 20-30% for a DCL cruise. Would I pay 50% more? Probably not, but it depends on a whole lot of factors. Does that make me right or wrong? Neither. It makes me, me.

Just because people post pro-DCL aspects does not mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid", a "mouse-thumper", or anything else. I really don't think there's anybody on here who is a DCL diehard for life that attacks those with positive thoughts about other lines. These people simply don't exist, I'm sorry. DCL has its faults, no doubt. And this is as good a place as any to discuss those, and bring up what other lines do better. I've been frustrated with the 2-pool situation myself, and have researched other lines that do it better. I sincerely look forward to continuing to learn about other cruise lines, especially from those who enjoy DCL themselves, and ultimately cruising other lines in the future.

I’m saying this very kindly (I know sometimes tone doesn’t come across) but it seems like you are taking some of these discussions too personally. If people are making you feel foolish or misguided about cruising DCL I think you are giving posts too much weight. I don’t believe anyone has said that a poster’s opinions are irrelevant and that they shouldn’t contribute to the Board. However I personally do discount some people’s opinions on these boards (either because they are always negative, always defending Disney to the point that you should be so lucky that Disney deigns to accept your money, or because their personal situation doesn’t apply to me), but honestly that’s how every conversation in life works as you evaluate what other people say and decide how much attention to give it.

It’s also a discussion board, not a fan club, and people are going to disagree with peoples opinions and counter with their own. The dis has never been a place where people just post experiences- that’s the Trip Reports section. It’s always been a place of differing opinions and a place where the Ignore feature is helpful if particular posters get under your skin. As Disney’s product changes (cutbacks from what us long time cruisers are used to and price inflation that dwarfs other lines) I’d expect their to be more negative feedback on the discussion boards, but please keep it in perspective that it’s only one persons experience and don’t let it affect you (otherwise the disboards will make you miserable).

 

[ChicosWife]

It is interesting to me how you posit your question. It isn't a binary love/hate Disney issue. You have not been shy with your criticism of other lines and you have negatively characterized people who choose those lines. Denigrating one does not serve to raise the other. You are welcome to your opinion as much as anyone, though it would lead to more reasonable discussions if you had recent experience on lines other than DCL.

So many people on this thread and board enjoy DCL but have also found suitable alternatives as life changes. We had outstanding cruises with DCL when our boys were younger. When they were teens they preferred the RCCL Oasis class ships. For adult-only cruises we find little value with DCL.

I don't hate DCL. I still believe that DCL is the best cruise line for young children. If/when we have grandchildren we will undoubtedly be back on DCL. When researching cruises I always price out DCL but can't seem to find a suitable itinerary at a fair price. I do, however, think that the pricing is absurd and DCL continues to cut services and quality. There may have been a time where DCL ships were the best but other cruise lines have risen to the occasion and many now offer a comparable or superior product depending on individual tastes. I don't need to hug a character and DCL shows, in my opinion, are tedious. I am not getting what I pay for on DCL.

I guess there is hope that DCL will change the business model. Five or six years ago it wasn't difficult to find DCL cruises within 10-20% of comparable cruises. Perhaps future economic conditions will alter the DCL mindset.

I have not "negatively characterized" anyone, but I do have my opinions (as everyone does) about sailing other lines.

Going out on a limb here, but I have a feeling the OP started this thread because of a comment she received in the Other/Cheaper Cruises thread. I will agree that the comment was unnecessarily rude.

I love DCL, but I would love to branch out and try other lines (as I mentioned in the now-closed priced out thread) and new itineraries. I can easily avoid a casino on another cruise ship just as well as I avoid bingo on DCL. We infrequently drink alcohol, but my husband does like diet soda. We only take a verandah on DCL if we feel the price is reasonable (yes, I know that DCL and reasonable cost can be construed as an oxymoron by some). We do not have children so the kids clubs or activities geared towards kids have no place in our decisions.

In our 13 DCL cruises, we have repeated an itinerary twice. That was due to the convenience of leaving from NYC. Now when I see the prices of some of these new DCL itineraries I think that there has to be a better option out there.

That was not the first time I have been the focus of or witnessed the negative comments on this board. I will caveat to say, that I don't see if often. Most of the posts on here are and have been personally beneficial and informative.

This needs separate answers.

1) Threads digress all the time ...

2) We've asked for a separate forum, the mods said no for a new section but said that we could keep the thread alive and we could condense all our reviews over there.

3) It makes me sad because I work hard to keep it alive and updated with the most recent informations (about DCL and Carnival) and stating the differences on the first post and although I have no control on what other DISers post, I always encourage people to "compare" when they do reviews. And I encourage people to remain calm and polite when they don't agree (and they are, most of the time). And we compare itineraries and prices a lot too. We encourage/congratulate people when they think of booking/book with DCL and when they caught good rates. I keep asking people for suggestions and telling everybody that they are welcome to participate and make suggestions to improve the thread... Is it not enough?

4) How can we compare their new ships when the only info we get about DCL is Disney Doe 2021 - Disney Doe 2022 - Disney Doe 2023? With no plans or sneak peaks whatsoever?

It shows that you keep it alive and as I have stated, I have no issue with comparison threads. That one has veered off into a "Carnival information" thread. To me, it just seems out of place on a Disney Cruise Line forum.

So OP out of curiosity- do you have a problem with all non-Disney threads, or just not Disney cruise threads? I’ve never done Universal or SeaWorld so don’t click over there, but they have their own forums on here. Since the owners don’t want a separate forum wouldn’t it be easier to have separate “all other” threads or comparison posts for those that

1. Love Disney parks but prefer other cruise lines (so they ARE here for Disney but would like to discuss other travel as well)

2. Love or like DCL but mix it up and want a place to compare and hear about their other lines of interest

It just seems like a confusing stance to say you find all non-Disney talk out of place here when the boards seem to encourage and promote that with forums like Universal or SeaWorld prominently displayed and lots of discussionon the WDW board will compare and such.

Disney can absolutely be your favorite one and only line and this should absolutely be a great happy place for you to plan and discuss and enjoy. I just don’t think that ideal is mutually exclusive from letting others discuss their lines and preferences (as long as it doesn’t get nasty on either side of course!). Just don’t read those threads.

No issues with comparison threads on the Disney Cruise Line Forum.

 

[ray3127]

I’m saying this very kindly (I know sometimes tone doesn’t come across) but it seems like you are taking some of these discussions too personally. If people are making you feel foolish or misguided about cruising DCL I think you are giving posts too much weight. I don’t believe anyone has said that a poster’s opinions are irrelevant and that they shouldn’t contribute to the Board. However I personally do discount some people’s opinions on these boards (either because they are always negative, always defending Disney to the point that you should be so lucky that Disney deigns to accept your money, or because their personal situation doesn’t apply to me), but honestly that’s how every conversation in life works as you evaluate what other people say and decide how much attention to give it.

It’s also a discussion board, not a fan club, and people are going to disagree with peoples opinions and counter with their own. The dis has never been a place where people just post experiences- that’s the Trip Reports section. It’s always been a place of differing opinions and a place where the Ignore feature is helpful if particular posters get under your skin. As Disney’s product changes (cutbacks from what us long time cruisers are used to and price inflation that dwarfs other lines) I’d expect their to be more negative feedback on the discussion boards, but please keep it in perspective that it’s only one persons experience and don’t let it affect you (otherwise the disboards will make you miserable).

I appreciate the feedback and agree with you. I hope it was clear that I want to hear all opinions--the good, bad, and everything in between. I just think we can go about it a little better.

 

[mevelandry]

I have not "negatively characterized" anyone, but I do have my opinions (as everyone does) about sailing other lines.



That was not the first time I have been the focus of or witnessed the negative comments on this board. I will caveat to say, that I don't see if often. Most of the posts on here are and have been personally beneficial and informative.



It shows that you keep it alive and as I have stated, I have no issue with comparison threads. That one has veered off into a "Carnival information" thread. To me, it just seems out of place on a Disney Cruise Line forum.



No issues with comparison threads on the Disney Cruise Line Forum.

Reply to the comment that was addressed to me:

I respectfully disagree for the reasons I've stated earlier in this post. While it's nearly impossible to compare "news", informations on the differences between the lines are clearly stated in the first post and prices between the lines are compared all the time. I'm sorry you do not enjoy the thread as it is. You (and everyone) are more than welcome to make suggestions or recommendations in order to make it better.

 

[belle032]

I have not "negatively characterized" anyone, but I do have my opinions (as everyone does) about sailing other lines.

That was not the first time I have been the focus of or witnessed the negative comments on this board. I will caveat to say, that I don't see if often. Most of the posts on here are and have been personally beneficial and informative.

I am sorry if you have been the target of anything negative-no one deserves that. However, I do respectfully disagree with your statement. I found your comment on another thread about "DCL having a higher quality of passengers" not being a myth to be uncalled for and negative. Just because a person chooses not to sail on DCL for ANY particular reason, does not make them "lesser quality." You absolutely deserve to have your own opinions about any and all cruise lines and the people who sail on them, but that one maybe did not need to be voiced. Just my 2 cents.

 

[tinkerone]

Oh, dear... That's a long reply for such a short comment, will try to respond the best that I can:

1) My comment was just a side note. I did not comment on the rest of Tink's comment but I agreed with most of it.

2) I'm sorry if any comments made you feel that way. I hope I never made anyone feel that way and will definitely pay attention to make sure nobody feels that way in the future.

3) My exact quote was "It's okay... I'll pass. (Not a fan of hugging strangers in a costume after all LOL)". I'm surprised you considered this comment rude as I was not making fun of the poster: I was only making fun of my own fear of strangers. I'm a sissy, I fear my own shadow (just ask my husband). I've never been comfortable with characters (although I love the pictures I have with them) and I believe I've always been vocal about it on the board but I can not expect every single DISer to remember that. I'll be happy to edit my comment with that precision.

4) You say "Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter." I'd like to make an amendment here... I'm not expecting anyone to have experienced a whole bunch of different line but maybe try to abstain from passing judgments on a cruise line that you haven't tried?

5) I don't necessarily disagree with you here... but I don't agree 100% either. Probably because I "compartimentalize" aspects of cruising... To me everything that has to do with the Mouse is just part of one "section" of the list of criterias I have when it comes to cruising. But I can agree that we are analyze our experiences differently.

6) Huh, yes they do exist. I won't name names but my experience has been different. Some of us have received very harsh/snarky/snotty comments regarding the fact that we enjoyed/chose to sail on non-DCL cruise lines... (side note: And a lot of those comments came from people who had never experienced non-DCL cruise lines.)

I'll have a number 4 and a number 6 please.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Another great example of a place where talking about other lines is Highly Relevant: Hawaii, anyone?

Even Gold and Silver had issues with the (very limited) sailing options offered by DCL, and even they had to scramble at the rapidly increasing price given that they never made it to public onsale.

There are a lot of itineraries that even if you adore DCL and don't care about the pricing... you aren't getting them from DCL. Knowing about the other lines, maybe even sampling them on lower risk itineraries, may be helpful if you want to cruise Hawaii, the Canal at a better time than the twice a year offered, etc. etc.

 

[smmco]

This misses the point. @tink1970 isn't saying that finding greater value for YOUR buck is wrong. I'm sure she would agree that everybody should do this! I think being frugal is a great thing, and I think it's fair to say DCL's prices have increased quite a bit (and to complain about them!).

But here's what's not fair, and what tink's point truly was: those who choose to cruise DCL are made to feel like we are being foolish and just don't get what cruising is all about. THAT mindset is pervasive among some on these boards. And yes, we could just ignore those comments/threads/people. But the DIS is a bit more like a community than most online message boards, and it would be nice if everybody simply respected everybody's opinions and experiences without suggesting they are wrong, misguided, foolish, or ignorant.

I also don't think it's very nice to characterize an experience that somebody finds meaningful, such as meeting a character on a Disney Cruise, as "hugging an adult in a costume", or whatever the exact quote was. I thought that was very rude, and exactly the kind of condescending thing that does more to hurt these boards than help them. If you don't care for the character greetings, I completely understand and don't hold it against you. It's simply enough to say "I don't care for the character greetings, so those don't add any value for me."

Lastly, I've only been on 2 cruises. They happen to be DCL cruises. I'd like to cruise other lines, but I live in Nebraska and have young kids, so it's not an easy task. Still, I previously had cruises booked on NCL, RCCL, and Celebrity at one time or another. I unfortunately had to cancel them for various reasons, and the two DCL ones stuck (go figure). But I had done enough research/comparisons to take the step of actually booking on those lines. I am sure that we will cruise other lines to get more bang for our buck and to experience the different ports where Disney is way overpriced at some point (Alaska keeps coming to mind), but we aren't there yet. Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter. So apparently, I should shut up and not contribute when people are asking for opinions. Between the days (really weeks or months) of research I've done, as well as countless discussions with close family members who have cruised on ALL these other lines, I feel like I should be allowed to contribute without being told I'm wrong.

As has been said several times here and elsewhere, value is subjective. What's truly foolish is to try to compare "apples to apples", because everybody views all of the differences between lines, well, differently. All we can do is share our experiences and acknowledge others' experiences. For a whole lot of people on here, simply adding up the dollar amount of a soda package to another cruise line's fare does not result in an 'apples to apples' comparison. Comments like this are counter-productive. @tidefan had a great answer that ran down all the DCL value-adds compared to other lines, but was promptly "corrected"... again, value is subjective. Right now, based on my research and the needs of my family (With children ages 5 & 1), I'm willing to pay an extra 20-30% for a DCL cruise. Would I pay 50% more? Probably not, but it depends on a whole lot of factors. Does that make me right or wrong? Neither. It makes me, me.

Just because people post pro-DCL aspects does not mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid", a "mouse-thumper", or anything else. I really don't think there's anybody on here who is a DCL diehard for life that attacks those with positive thoughts about other lines. These people simply don't exist, I'm sorry. DCL has its faults, no doubt. And this is as good a place as any to discuss those, and bring up what other lines do better. I've been frustrated with the 2-pool situation myself, and have researched other lines that do it better. I sincerely look forward to continuing to learn about other cruise lines, especially from those who enjoy DCL themselves, and ultimately cruising other lines in the future.

Honestly I’ve read through both threads and there is not one post here that makes me feel foolish for cruising on DCL. I cruised on Royal last year. I have two DCL cruises booked this year and a Carnival next. Nobody has made me feel foolish for booking any of these cruises.
There have been some pretty outlandish things said without facts to back it up. That is why people pounce on those posts.
Being called a kool aid drinker or mouse thumper is certainly not offensive. I go to work everyday with one of my DCL Dooney purses and my DCL coffee cup. I’m really not too concerned what anyone thinks.

 

[mmmears]

I really enjoy the comparison threads, where someone posts that they just returned from X and want to compare it to DCL. The more details (pros and cons) the better, since I can see for myself if those things are relevant to me. I've seen some pretty judgmental comments on those threads though. We are all different and care about different things. I really hope this board can continue to be a place where we can discuss things openly (and critically). It's ok if we don't agree on everything, it's what makes life interesting.

I know people who go to WDW 3-4 times a year and never vacation anywhere else. Some people think that's awful. Some people think it's brilliant. Some like DCL, while others hate cruising or would never even consider trying a cruise. Why are we judging others for how they choose to spend their money and what kind of trips they book? There is no right way to do this, but I won't deny that I see lots of judgmental posts on here.

So true, or you're accused of :
Which is usually not the case.

Everyone should feel free to spend their vacation money where and how they want, but if you cruise DCL and pay high prices you're accused of drinking the kool-aid, being a DCL apologist, being foolish for spending so much money, etc. If you respond that you've paid the same or less than the other lines for a DCL, that is challenged and/or ignored. The current rhetoric appears to be, ironically on a DCL thread, that's you're a fool or a spendthrift if you sail DCL and if you pay a fraction to sail another (fill in beloved other line) you are more intelligent, fiscally responsible, and handsome (sarcasm font). I think missing the point is this is all for vacation that most of the world can never afford and spending your (alleged) fraction of DCL cost is still out of the reach of the majority of the population. So if you sail (fill in blank) for x dollars versus sailing DCL for y dollars, guess what? It's still a luxury.

Vacations are personal and there's no wrong way to do them. That's the frustration I have with this forum lately-apparently there is, to some, a right way. I really appreciate discourse without insults. To thine own self be true...

I agree. I've seen posts saying that sailing on DCL is stupid given the current prices. Why? Can't we all decide how to best spend our own money?

Food for thought:

You know, when you talk about Disney's pricing, especially for those cruises, it is also worth bringing up the point that that $20,000 for 4 people in a Verandah is about $8,000+ dollars less for those same 4 people in an inside room (which is about the same size, minus the verandah). So, another thing to ask is: Is the Balcony worth that amount of price difference?

Yep, I saw the same thing. There is a huge price difference between the different cabin levels, on the same ship at the same time. Also the price discrepancies between DCL and those other lines depend on how many people you are booking for, what kind of cabin you want or need, which itinerary you choose, etc. I've seen people post that they can't find what they want for half the price (I can't either...) and those posters being told they are incorrect. There are too many factors involved to really compare. To answer your question, yes, a balcony is important to me but for very specific reasons. I'd never tell someone that they "need" to have a balcony.

 

[mevelandry]

I really enjoy the comparison threads, where someone posts that they just returned from X and want to compare it to DCL. The more details (pros and cons) the better, since I can see for myself if those things are relevant to me. I've seen some pretty judgmental comments on those threads though. We are all different and care about different things. I really hope this board can continue to be a place where we can discuss things openly (and critically). It's ok if we don't agree on everything, it's what makes life interesting.

I know people who go to WDW 3-4 times a year and never vacation anywhere else. Some people think that's awful. Some people think it's brilliant. Some like DCL, while others hate cruising or would never even consider trying a cruise. Why are we judging others for how they choose to spend their money and what kind of trips they book? There is no right way to do this, but I won't deny that I see lots of judgmental posts on here.



I agree. I've seen posts saying that sailing on DCL is stupid given the current prices. Why? Can't we all decide how to best spend our own money?



Yep, I saw the same thing. There is a huge price difference between the different cabin levels, on the same ship at the same time. Also the price discrepancies between DCL and those other lines depend on how many people you are booking for, what kind of cabin you want or need, which itinerary you choose, etc. I've seen people post that they can't find what they want for half the price (I can't either...) and those posters being told they are incorrect. There are too many factors involved to really compare. To answer your question, yes, a balcony is important to me but for very specific reasons. I'd never tell someone that they "need" to have a balcony.

I agree 100% that some people (not naming any names and I'm not perfect either) could phrase their opinions regarding the prices differently:

It's one thing to say "Wow those prices are crazy and I don't think it's worth that much" and another to say "Wow, you have to be really dumb to pay those prices".

(I won't do a Ted Talk about it but I can understand or how Disney can benefit someone in certain situations.)

Name-calling and attacks are not fun to read and ruin everything.

 

[jeepnjudy]

And the DVC forums actually are pretty critical regularly, with a side dose of telling would-be purchasers not to believe what the guides tell them. To the people who defend Disney, the DVC forums would probably break them!

Interesting... I'm over on those boards and own DVC but I don't perceive the DVC folks as overly critical. I actually perceive the DVC threads as highly informative based on other owners' experiences. Again though, just my perception.

 

[cgolf]

This misses the point. @tink1970 isn't saying that finding greater value for YOUR buck is wrong. I'm sure she would agree that everybody should do this! I think being frugal is a great thing, and I think it's fair to say DCL's prices have increased quite a bit (and to complain about them!).

But here's what's not fair, and what tink's point truly was: those who choose to cruise DCL are made to feel like we are being foolish and just don't get what cruising is all about. THAT mindset is pervasive among some on these boards. And yes, we could just ignore those comments/threads/people. But the DIS is a bit more like a community than most online message boards, and it would be nice if everybody simply respected everybody's opinions and experiences without suggesting they are wrong, misguided, foolish, or ignorant.

I also don't think it's very nice to characterize an experience that somebody finds meaningful, such as meeting a character on a Disney Cruise, as "hugging an adult in a costume", or whatever the exact quote was. I thought that was very rude, and exactly the kind of condescending thing that does more to hurt these boards than help them. If you don't care for the character greetings, I completely understand and don't hold it against you. It's simply enough to say "I don't care for the character greetings, so those don't add any value for me."

Lastly, I've only been on 2 cruises. They happen to be DCL cruises. I'd like to cruise other lines, but I live in Nebraska and have young kids, so it's not an easy task. Still, I previously had cruises booked on NCL, RCCL, and Celebrity at one time or another. I unfortunately had to cancel them for various reasons, and the two DCL ones stuck (go figure). But I had done enough research/comparisons to take the step of actually booking on those lines. I am sure that we will cruise other lines to get more bang for our buck and to experience the different ports where Disney is way overpriced at some point (Alaska keeps coming to mind), but we aren't there yet. Still, that should not mean that my opinion is irrelevant. This is another pervasive idea that I find ridiculous and annoying: unless you've cruised on a whole bunch of different lines, your experience doesn't matter. So apparently, I should shut up and not contribute when people are asking for opinions. Between the days (really weeks or months) of research I've done, as well as countless discussions with close family members who have cruised on ALL these other lines, I feel like I should be allowed to contribute without being told I'm wrong.

As has been said several times here and elsewhere, value is subjective. What's truly foolish is to try to compare "apples to apples", because everybody views all of the differences between lines, well, differently. All we can do is share our experiences and acknowledge others' experiences. For a whole lot of people on here, simply adding up the dollar amount of a soda package to another cruise line's fare does not result in an 'apples to apples' comparison. Comments like this are counter-productive. @tidefan had a great answer that ran down all the DCL value-adds compared to other lines, but was promptly "corrected"... again, value is subjective. Right now, based on my research and the needs of my family (With children ages 5 & 1), I'm willing to pay an extra 20-30% for a DCL cruise. Would I pay 50% more? Probably not, but it depends on a whole lot of factors. Does that make me right or wrong? Neither. It makes me, me.

Just because people post pro-DCL aspects does not mean they are "drinking the Kool-aid", a "mouse-thumper", or anything else. I really don't think there's anybody on here who is a DCL diehard for life that attacks those with positive thoughts about other lines. These people simply don't exist, I'm sorry. DCL has its faults, no doubt. And this is as good a place as any to discuss those, and bring up what other lines do better. I've been frustrated with the 2-pool situation myself, and have researched other lines that do it better. I sincerely look forward to continuing to learn about other cruise lines, especially from those who enjoy DCL themselves, and ultimately cruising other lines in the future.

I agree with you, and it goes both ways is all some of us are saying. There are people on both sides that want to take shots at either DCL or other lines. There are some people that believe DCL can do no wrong, and some that think Disney is evil.

Then there are some of us caught in the middle.

Was I board on my last DCL cruise, to a point yeh, but there are still memories I won’t forget, yup. Rob Sanders singing photograph on the piano bringing me to tears because I finally understood the song, music is my kryptonite, for sure, but the rest was just ok. Our Hawaii cruises on the Wonder will always be my number 1 My number one memory ever on a cruie was watching the gentleman that built the LEGO wonder guide a blind gentleman’s hand over the LEGO model explaining the design of the ship to him. It was such a special random act of kindness I am getting misty eyed thinking about it.

I don’t expect others to share my beliefs and over the years I have butted heads with people on here, only one I regret is Tonka’s Skipper, but at the same time I have a ton of respect for a lot of posters on here and hopefully the feeling goes both ways. I also understand some people are all about Disney, so obviously DCL is the line for them, unless of course the cost is just too much.

You are right value is subjective, but for some like us the item to item comparison is valid so it is nice to see, others are willing to pay a premium to cruise DCL or another line.

For us we try to keep it to under 150 per night per person, in general, we do splurge once in a while. @mevelandry would be disappointed in me because we will likely never set foot on a Carnival cruise due to experiences of close friends and family, we are down to a few lines we price shop between, including DCL.

This is a long winded answer for saying most of us fall in the middle, but there will always be extremes. Just glad the extremes are mellow here compared to other forums, cough, CC.