Central Park “Karen”

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

What blows my mind is that she kept ranting even after she knew he was recording her. Didn't it occur to her that maybe it would be a good idea to just shut up?

Sometimes recording just makes someone act out further or futher enrages them, it can end up being an argument over the "right" (and I use that loosely on purpose) to record someone or not.

 

[okeydokey]

Yes I watch news. I’ve even seen someone being arrested. Outcomes where someone gets killed by the police are actually quite rare. He would have gotten the opportunity to tell his side of the story and showed the video that would prove she was lying.

Regardless of whether or not her employer thought she was racist, they had to act. A company like that relies on goodwill. There were people more than willing to pull their assets unless she was gone.

Outcomes vary depending on your race. This man absolutely should have feared for life after hearing her false report to Law Enforcement. She was setting him up for something very unpleasant and potentially deadly.

 

[oceanview2020]

It doesn't lessen their tragedy for me. I can easily fathom both situations for their own indications. For example, I can be alarmed by an airline faking safety inspections AND the news of a deadly airline crash. Plus I can understand how one can lead to the other. Fortunately, the human mind is fully capable of separating the two and understanding the connection.

Yes of course. I can see her actions as deplorable and the tragedies of their deaths as unacceptable and needing justice served. But that doesn’t mean the two should be compared. Or that possible legal actions taken against this woman should be because “look what could have happened”.

Sadly, we are never going to live in a perfect world. Ever. We need changes. Number one, Changes to departments that are supposed to protect and serve. Racism in those areas is not acceptable and even a racist word or any slight racist action from one in those departments should be a firing offense. On the other hand, unfortunately, ignorant people, like this woman will always exist. We can change what actions a person can take or what professions a person can stay in with those views, but we will never change what all people think.

 

[shelemm]

Outcomes vary depending on your race. This man absolutely should have feared for life after hearing her false report to Law Enforcement. She was setting him up for something very unpleasant and potentially deadly.

And she knew it.

 

[JimMIA]

Minimizing what was afoot helps normalize the situation, which is demonstrably not okay.

Equating minor Facebook drama with real-world murder trivializes the murder...and helps normalize it, which is demonstrably not okay.

 

[shelemm]

Equating minor Facebook drama with real-world murder trivializes the murder...and helps normalize it, which is demonstrably not okay.

I think my airline example a good one. Faking safety data might not lead to a fatal crash, but it is a subject to be taken deadly seriously all the same. Plus, you are tipping your hand when you call it "minor Facebook drama" as if it all took place online. It's only minor if it doesn't lead to something major, which it could have. As I said before, my mind is able to both separate AND connect the two so as not make me feel that the murders are trivial.

 

[cabanafrau]

Equating minor Facebook drama with real-world murder trivializes the murder...and helps normalize it, which is demonstrably not okay.

Nice attempt at pivoting, but no. You've stated your background and experience in LE many times. It's telling what you've notably chosen not to address in my comments, which is reality regarding the risk inherent in the involvement of LE, something I've heard openly acknowledged by many officers over the years.

 

[bcla]

Outcomes vary depending on your race. This man absolutely should have feared for life after hearing her false report to Law Enforcement. She was setting him up for something very unpleasant and potentially deadly.

I agree that it could have gotten unpleasant. Possibly even guns drawn. I've even been around when police were prepared to question someone who was armed. I saw one officer unclipping his holster and placing his hand on his sidearm. But in the end the guy didn't get shot just because he was a black guy with a gun.

But if her goal was to make sure that he would never get the chance to present his side of the case (i.e. show the video) because he's killed, then that's not much of a plan. The police are supposed to be able to assess a situation and use as little force (preferably none) as needed for a particular situation. We all hear about how things have gone horribly wrong, but rarely hear about when police defuse a situation.

 

[tzolkin]

Or not even leash him if she didn’t want to. He had no authority to make her even by recording her. So I don’t get why she freaked out.

That's really the point. She could have simply put the leash on the dog (knowing that was the rule) or even just ignored his request and walked away. Instead, she approached him to start a conflict and then escalated with the phone call and still didn't even bother to clip the leash on.

What blows my mind is that she kept ranting even after she knew he was recording her. Didn't it occur to her that maybe it would be a good idea to just shut up?

She was looking to instigate a confrontation. She approached HIM and then when she realized that she wasn't going to get the reaction that she wanted, she purposely chose to take it to the next level by calling 911. Even that wasn't enough, she had to fake distressed screaming like she was actively being attacked while the man was calmly keeping his distance and giving no indication that he had any intention of approaching her. Maybe she didn't care or think about the video, she just wanted the attention and drama of either a fight or the 911 operator?

This is over the top being stupid shouldn't get you fired especially if you are not at work or wearing work clothes. I know she was wrong but this pathetic mob mentiality is pathetic why should she lose her dog for that?

She didn't get fired for "being stupid". No one is going to trust someone to manage their finances who they know to be deceptive and will lie for her own benefit. I would imagine clients may have been complaining or asking to not work with her as soon as this hit the news.

As for the dog; she was completely out of control. If she really cared about the dog's well being, her first thought would have been to clip the leash on rather than strangling and struggling with it for several minutes. Also, usually when you adopt a dog, you sign a contract that they can take possession of the dog if you do not comply. I have seen contracts that include "dog must be leashed except when in a securely fenced enclosure". If that was in her adoption contract, she clearly violated that by breaking the leash law.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Ok, I'll start: In the key of G: Racism is not much of a concern (sung to the tune of "I don't really care because I benefit from it.")

The hook could be: My privilege allows me to dismiss this.

 

[JimMIA]

You've stated your background and experience in LE many times. It's telling what you've notably chosen not to address in my comments, which is reality regarding the risk inherent in the involvement of LE, something I've heard openly acknowledged by many officers over the years.

I chose not to dwell on the possible negative outcomes from LE involvement because I think those pale in comparison to the negative consequences of equating radically different events -- like snotty, racist princess outbursts and murders.

We actually agree more than we disagree. We both agree that racism is wrong and also harmful to society and individuals in ANY form or degree.

I also think your point about potential legal/financial implications of police encounters is absolutely correct. (It's actually much more plausible that the ideas others have expressed of cops approaching with guns blazing, lol. Some folks watch too much TV during pandemics!)

In a situation like the Central Park case, if either had been arrested, there would have been serious consequences -- in addition to whatever the courts did. At a minimum, there would have been embarrassment and some level of expense. There might have been employment consequences. There might have been an extended amount of time lost due to legal proceedings. In very rare cases, there might have been injuries.

But those potential negatives almost never occur. Not never. Almost never.

Disputes like the one in Central Park are more dangerous for officers than they are for members of the public. Emotions are high, there are many unknowns, and situations can be very fluid. Two parties can be at each others throats one minute, and joining to physically attack the officers the next. If the officers fail to defuse the situation, it escalates, things get much more difficult, and fewer options are available.

But what really does happen, in real life, in the real world, is that officers use their training, involved parties calm down, and the situation is resolved -- without violence, without financial loss, and without any police action beyond calmly talking the parties through it. Arrests are very rare in these situations, with the exception of domestic violence disputes where there is a statutory requirement to arrest in some situations. Use of any force in these situations is extremely rare -- force is only used when the parties attack each other, or attack the officers.

 

[bcla]

I also think your point about potential legal/financial implications of police encounters is absolutely correct. (It's actually much more plausible that the ideas others have expressed of cops approaching with guns blazing, lol. Some folks watch too much TV during pandemics!)

A lot of people think many police are like Tackleberry in Police Academy - just itching for an excuse to discharge a firearm. I've had various discussions with law enforcement, and quite a few don't like guns. I've been informed that defusing a situation is far more preferable and a large majority have never discharged a firearm on duty.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

Slightly off topic but I had a police officer, female, act threatening to me at my own home just a couple months ago. Our neighbor called cop on neighbor across street tenant (illegal) bc she didn't recognize him and he was out in front of house late at night, whatever. This woman came banging on my door next morning thinking it was us bc we are the ones directly acrossed from her but it was not. She was calling us racist, names, saying we are harassing her, we vote otherwise, even when we continually told her it wasn't us and never have called on her. Nevermind the fact that she gets away with renting her downstairs AND upstairs in a one family house. Then she left and called police on us. We tried to explain to police woman that we were not involved and this policewoman was so unbelievably nasty and rude, telling me to shut up, don't you learn in elementary school not to speak over someone, had her hand on her gun constantly, honest to God I felt like any second she was going to grab me to the ground, and continued nasty berating comments to me, I am 5 ft 1 in tall tiny 110 lbs, am not threatening never been in trouble. Needless to say she never put our side in the police report which was why I continued to try to tell her our side. We went to the police chief over this and saw this. The building inspector who was also there at the time bc he has been trying to get into her house to see if she has these apartments, someone must have called him, said to us later wow that policewoman was so bad, I cannot believe you remained so calm, how did you do that, it is cops like her that get people shot. Cops are bad to people like me, I can imagine what people of color go through. There has to be a way to get these police out of the force. I have respect for police but too many on a power trip. Needless to say this neighbor still has her tenants lol.

 

[Searc]

A lot of people think many police are like Tackleberry in Police Academy - just itching for an excuse to discharge a firearm. I've had various discussions with law enforcement, and quite a few don't like guns. I've been informed that defusing a situation is far more preferable and a large majority have never discharged a firearm on duty.

You don't go into law enforcement because you dislike guns.

 

[JimMIA]

You don't go into law enforcement because you dislike guns.

Neither do you go into law enforcement because you like guns. Also, people who go into a field for silly reasons like that usually don't last long. If they don't get weeded out by the psych exams, they find they just don't like the work.

I've never been a fan of guns; they were always just one of the necessary tools of the trade. I still have my handgun, but haven't seen it in years -- probably should go look for it, lol.

 

[cabanafrau]

I chose not to dwell on the possible negative outcomes from LE involvement because I think those pale in comparison to the negative consequences of equating radically different events -- like snotty, racist princess outbursts and murders.

I also think your point about potential legal/financial implications of police encounters is absolutely correct. (It's actually much more plausible that the ideas others have expressed of cops approaching with guns blazing, lol. Some folks watch too much TV during pandemics!)

In a situation like the Central Park case, if either had been arrested, there would have been serious consequences -- in addition to whatever the courts did. At a minimum, there would have been embarrassment and some level of expense. There might have been employment consequences. There might have been an extended amount of time lost due to legal proceedings. In very rare cases, there might have been injuries.

But those potential negatives almost never occur. Not never. Almost never.

Disputes like the one in Central Park are more dangerous for officers than they are for members of the public. Emotions are high, there are many unknowns, and situations can be very fluid. Two parties can be at each others throats one minute, and joining to physically attack the officers the next. If the officers fail to defuse the situation, it escalates, things get much more difficult, and fewer options are available.

But what really does happen, in real life, in the real world, is that officers use their training, involved parties calm down, and the situation is resolved -- without violence, without financial loss, and without any police action beyond calmly talking the parties through it. Arrests are very rare in these situations, with the exception of domestic violence disputes where there is a statutory requirement to arrest in some situations. Use of any force in these situations is extremely rare -- force is only used when the parties attack each other, or attack the officers.

Nope. What really does happen in real life, in the real world, is that emotions get heated, things are misconstrued and misunderstood, officers are having a bad day or are just hyped up on flexing their power and somebody is facing a resisting, obstructing or fleeing and eluding charge.

Are they many times sorted out in the wash? Yep. Along the way it generally takes time and money to reach that outcome. For those who can afford retaining their own counsel it hits the pocketbook heavily. It generally causes quite an amount of work absences. Employers tend to take a dim view of the absences, moreso when the reason for the court proceedings is revealed. For some the mere involvement with LE and the courts is cause for termination. Others wind up terminated as the process moves along. Suddenly they join the ranks of those who couldn't afford to retain counsel of their choice. Then they fall into the trap of seriously being one of a number. Even public defenders who are skilled and dedicated cannot devote the time necessary to cut through a lot of the bureaucracy to allow justice to reach its conclusion.

 

[bcla]

You don't go into law enforcement because you dislike guns.

It believe a lot of people go into law enforcement for different reasons. Some who attend a police academy have never handled a firearm before. It's just a tool and not everyone enjoys handling certain tools.

I mean - I get that a lot of people enter the military because they want to be able to fly aircraft, but hate that they have to be in a command structure where they have to manage people.

 

[DuskKodesh]

So now she is getting death threats and Christian Cooper(the man who she called the police on) has said for people to stop. This man has CLASS! And a moral compass unlike her.

And you believe her?

On this one single thing she should be believed. I've been on the internet a while. I've been here for some scandals. I've seen female journalists get death threats for articles targeting misogyny. I saw someone do fanart of a game, make the character female instead of male, then get chased off of Twitter from the death threats. I've seen the actual death threats and wishes of harm, r***, and suicide sent to my friend because she booted someone out of her RP room after they became belligerent. Said person then rallied their friends for a barrage of ill intent.

Quite frankly as soon as I saw the news story I knew she'd be getting some scary mail and messages for months. People think nothing of sending vitriol over media like it's nothing and not everyone on the internet that sees a news story wants to stay distant from the drama. So is she receiving death threats? 100% likely. She's already been doxxed, people online have her social media accounts.

Trial by general public is far worse than any charges law enforcement could actually give her.

 

[JimMIA]

Nope. What really does happen in real life, in the real world, is that emotions get heated, things are misconstrued and misunderstood, officers are having a bad day or are just hyped up on flexing their power and somebody is facing a resisting, obstructing or fleeing and eluding charge.

I don't know where you get your opinions, but they sure do not match my experience, or the way our criminal courts function.

Prosecutors review every case prior to formally filing the case with the courts. Any case that doesn't meet prosecutorial standards (not arresting officer standards) is nol prossed immediately. If an officer made a weak arrest, the case is going away quickly.

Each case is then reviewed by a judge to determine whether a trial should be held -- and judges have many options to resolve cases without a trial. So the kind of hardship you keep bringing up only happens when there is a legitimate case against the defendant...in the opinion of both a prosecutor and a judge.

The defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but there has to be a pretty compelling case for it to make it to the courtroom.

 

[JimMIA]

On this one single thing she should be believed. I've been on the internet a while. I've been here for some scandals. I've seen female journalists get death threats for articles targeting misogyny. I saw someone do fanart of a game, make the character female instead of male, then get chased off of Twitter from the death threats. I've seen the actual death threats and wishes of harm, r***, and suicide sent to my friend because she booted someone out of her RP room after they became belligerent. Said person then rallied their friends for a barrage of ill intent.

Quite frankly as soon as I saw the news story I knew she'd be getting some scary mail and messages for months. People think nothing of sending vitriol over media like it's nothing and not everyone on the internet that sees a news story wants to stay distant from the drama. So is she receiving death threats? 100% likely. She's already been doxxed, people online have her social media accounts.

Trial by general public is far worse than any charges law enforcement could actually give her.

You're probably right. You know the old saying: "Live by the social media; die by the social media!"