CDC says Cruises can start in July

[sullivan.kscott]

This is the exact reason we need nationalized health care in some capacity. It should not be this hard to share health information across networks or state lines. It should not be this hard to be able to plug in an SSN and verify I received a Pfizer dose from batch #XXXXX on this date and my second dose on this date at this location.

The technology is 100% there and has been for years to make this extremely easy if companies play ball. As is, they care about profits, and to upgrade their IT infrastructure or reporting capabilities costs money they don't want to give up, so they have no incentive to even do it, let alone do it with any urgency. Health care is a gigantic mess in the US, but no one will do anything about it because the rich who can lobby the people in DC to do anything are getting great healthcare coverage, so they don't see this as a problem.

It's a rabbit hole for another thread, but Israel has a pretty robust public/private model. The consumer still has meaningful choice between commercial plans, but those commercial plans share meaningful data into a national repository of sorts. Portability and choosing a new plan doesn't create nightmares in lost data for your care.

As to it's affordability and other issues - I can't speak to that. From a pure data standpoint, it works very well. Our first real barrier would be unifying plans across state lines. For example, Blue Cross operating as 50+ different 'silos' is inefficient and ridiculous.

 

[DCLMP]

Once it gets FDA approved, folks will come up with another excuse for not getting it. I don't want to be stuck on a cruise with folks that don't take my health seriously. I'll wait for 2023. Hopefully, we'll be through this by then. And I'll probably still wear a mask as I caught the flu on one of these cruises. You can't expect sick people to cancel.

If you got the vaccine aren’t you protected?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

EU is in talks with the US about "acceptable vaccination certification" for cross-border travel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...y-covid-vaccinated-foreign-tourists-from-june

 

[lanejudy]

While Florida might not require a vaccination passport, many other countries, including Canada are considering one for entry.

Yep, and I live on the border and my governor has also stated no intent to participate in a vaccine passport. It's going to be interesting. We do have a high vaccination rate in my state, as well as relatively low virus compared to the rest of the country.

It should not be this hard to be able to plug in an SSN and verify I received a Pfizer dose from batch #XXXXX on this date and my second dose on this date at this location.

Here they didn't ask for SSN or anything. They have name and address, as well as email address. Maybe phone number. But since any of those demographics can change fairly easily, no great way to track even 6 months or a year from now based on that info.

 

[RamblingMad]

If you got the vaccine aren’t you protected?

Not against the flu.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

If you got the vaccine aren’t you protected?

In a sense. As the old saying goes, “it takes a village.” Unless you can control your “village” by hosting vaccinated dinner parties, having small outdoor cookouts, etc, we are still in a position nationally to assume that over half of everyone is unprotected. Too great a chance to encourage breakthrough cases.

Taken on a cruise ship, we are absolutely still in a viral situation that warrants, at minimum, what DCL is doing with the Magic UK sailings.

 

[rjb123]

I'm not arguing vaccines with you. However, I'm pretty sure that the CDC can dictate in a health crisis. Your decision not to take a vaccine is that, a decision. Live with the decision. Vaccinated people are ready to move on and totally understand why not only cruises, but other countries don't want more Americans rolling in unvaccinated and causing issues. It's 100% a choice and all choices have consequences.

Agreed. People can choose to not get vaccinated, but all choices have consequences. Choosing to not get the shot may just mean that you dont get to cruise or go to other countries. Consequences of the choice. shrug.

 

[DCLMP]

Not against the flu.

I thought you were referring to Covid. Flu vaccines have never been required.

 

[Sykes]

If you got the vaccine aren’t you protected?

Each unvaccinated person in a population significantly increases the risk of breakthrough cases, even amongst those vaccinated. In the context of cruises specifically it would also significantly increase the probability that the cruise will be cut short because of an outbreak amongst the unvaccinated, and other follow-on consequences.

 

[Husker Mike]

If you got the vaccine aren’t you protected?

Me, yes to about the 92%-95% level. But not those family members under the age of 16 (soon to be 12).

So you could still make me (and my unprotected family) ill. You also become a host for the virus to continue to circulate and possibly mutate into a form that the vaccine doesn't protect as well.

 

[soniam]

Me, yes to about the 92%-95% level. But not those family members under the age of 16 (soon to be 12).

So you could still make me (and my unprotected family) ill. You also become a host for the virus to continue to circulate and possibly mutate into a form that the vaccine doesn't protect as well.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think. No matter how many times we all say it here and in the vaccine thread and in the news, some people will fail to understand.

 

[jerry557]

Each unvaccinated person in a population significantly increases the risk of breakthrough cases, even amongst those vaccinated. In the context of cruises specifically it would also significantly increase the probability that the cruise will be cut short because of an outbreak amongst the unvaccinated, and other follow-on consequences.

You are never going to get to herd immunity. That's what I think finally some people are starting to realize. You can't possibly vaccinate enough people on this planet with a vaccine that wears off in a year against a virus that spreads faster than the common cold....and do it before that virus breaksthrough. It's just not going to happen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/03/health/covid-herd-immunity-vaccine.html
So we are going to reach that point where society will have to make a decision and figure out a way to live with the virus. If you think we are going to eventually be able to vaccinate enough people that in a couple years everything will be back to normal and COVID will be a distant memory....that's a fantasy. That's not going to happen. Vaccines may help control it and manage it. And over time we will find new therapies too. But COVID is going to be like the flu. It'll become endemic.

 

[Sykes]

You are never going to get to herd immunity.

Just to be clear, in this context we're mostly talking about the risk that unvaccinated individuals bring to a cruise ship, not about herd immunity in general.

 

[jerry557]

Just to be clear, in this context we're mostly talking about the risk that unvaccinated individuals bring to a cruise ship, not about herd immunity in general.

But if vaccinated people spread the virus anyway, what's the difference? The virus still spreads.

If this was a vaccine that you take one time and you are immune for a decade, and it gives you immunity and it stops you from spreading the virus......then yes, you have a point. But right now, at least from what is being told to us, vaccinated and unvaccinated people can both spread the virus. They are both a threat. The only difference between them is the vaccinated person may have less chance of getting seriously ill. In that case, isn't the unvaccinated person the one who's taking the risk?

 

[Husker Mike]

You are never going to get to herd immunity.

We don't know that.

You can't possibly vaccinate enough people on this planet with a vaccine that wears off in a year against a virus that spreads faster than the common cold....and do it before that virus breaksthrough. It's just not going to happen.

We don't know that either. We know that it lasts at least three months, and probably a lot longer. But we don't have any long-term studies that tell us how long immunity might last.

So we are going to reach that point where society will have to make a decision and figure out a way to live with the virus.

Maybe eventually we will. Or maybe we keep trying rather than raise our arms and give up. Because maybe science will keep studying the disease, and may be able to come up with a better booster shot. Or maybe we'll find out immunity lasts several years.

Part of figuring out a way to live with the virus is to do whatever we can do to slow and stop it.

 

[Sykes]

But if vaccinated people spread the virus anyway, what's the difference? The virus still spreads.
...
The only difference between them is the vaccinated person may have less chance of getting seriously ill. In that case, isn't the unvaccinated person the one who's taking the risk?

That is simply not true. Vaccinated individuals may be as much as 90% less likely to become infected with COVID-19, and thus they are 90% less likely to transmit the disease (for Pfizer at least--the others are similar but have slightly different rates). Further, vaccinated individuals who do contract COVID-19 have been shown to be far less likely to pass it on to family members and other close relatives (likely because the mild nature of the infection sheds less virus).

Early on we didn't know whether the vaccines prevented infection entirely or just reduced the severity of the symptoms because the clinical trials were focused on reducing symptomatic infection and didn't study asymptomatic infection closely, so early on the guidance was for vaccinated individuals to assume they can still transmit the virus. Now we we have significantly more real-world data and know that the vaccines are very effective (but not 100% effective) at preventing the disease entirely.

 

[ArielRae]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think. No matter how many times we all say it here and in the vaccine thread and in the news, some people will fail to understand.

Reading the quote above reminded me of this video clip.

 

[gkrykewy]

But if vaccinated people spread the virus anyway, what's the difference? The virus still spreads.

If this was a vaccine that you take one time and you are immune for a decade, and it gives you immunity and it stops you from spreading the virus......then yes, you have a point. But right now, at least from what is being told to us, vaccinated and unvaccinated people can both spread the virus. They are both a threat. The only difference between them is the vaccinated person may have less chance of getting seriously ill. In that case, isn't the unvaccinated person the one who's taking the risk?

Please stop sharing bad information. None of what you posted here is true, including our knowledge of how long the vaccines grant immunity for.

 

[DCLMP]

Me, yes to about the 92%-95% level. But not those family members under the age of 16 (soon to be 12).

So you could still make me (and my unprotected family) ill. You also become a host for the virus to continue to circulate and possibly mutate into a form that the vaccine doesn't protect as well.

It sounds like even if everyone is vaccinated you're still not protected. Maybe not cruising is the best option.

 

[mab2012]

While Florida might not require a vaccination passport, many other countries, including Canada are considering one for entry. I think time will tell after a larger percentage are vaccinated.

Yep, and I live on the border and my governor has also stated no intent to participate in a vaccine passport. It's going to be interesting.

So far all the Canadian government has said on vaccine passports is that they are "in discussion" with other countries, and that some form of vaccine documentation for international travel is "to be expected". They have actually very carefully not said that there will be a vaccination requirement to enter this country, only that some countries are likely to require it, and that Canada is involved in those discussions.

So, under consideration, certainly, but by no means inevitable. In particular, they're going to want to open the Canada/US border as soon as reasonably possible, so if there is no consistent national vaccination documentation in the US, that might well be a factor in how Canadian entry requirements are framed.

I don't think it's a very popular position in this country, but personally, I think it'll end up being a moot point before long. Once everyone (or at least everyone 12+) has had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated, who cares if someone comes into the country with COVID? It's not going to go far in a highly vaccinated population, if at all. The risk to children is miniscule, the vaccines are extremely protective against severe illness, and notwithstanding a very small minority who can't be vaccinated, if any unvaccinated adult becomes ill with COVID, that's on them.

We will likely end up with some mish-mash of requirements involving vaccinations, testing, quarantining, and country of origin in the near term, but I sincerely hope that will be short-lived.

The much bigger concern is going to be the risk of variants that escape the established immune response, but in that case, proof of vaccination against the existing strains will be useless anyway.