AP prices increased [6/18/2019]

[Nick6300]

I wonder if the calculus is more complex than simply the economy is good + parks are crowded = huge ticket price increase.

Some years back, there was a discussion that included data points on the amount each visitor spends while in the park. Yes, ticket price was a big component, but food & beverage, souvenirs and whatnot were included.

I have been curious to learn if the increase in attendance has resulted in a decrease of per visitor spend--simply because the crowds "get in the way" of people being able to make purchases at the rate they otherwise might.

The last several earnings calls, Iger mentions having a handle on controlling the park crowds via appropriate pricing (hotels, parks, goods) and expansion. The spend per guest have been up, but food and beverages prices have also increased a lot - more so than merch. The price of a T-shirt has roughly been $25-30 for several yrs, where the price of the french onion soup is now $7.99.

The line is too long issue does impact me, as primarily a quick service person. But that's why they're adding reservations to the likes of ABC Com. And it's tough for us not to eat at all just because the lines are long... we just end up planning to eat at off peak times like 2 & 4pm. But long lines can dissuade us from buying certain items such as dole whips, t-shirts.

My PP regarding APs not spending as much as first time visitors or occasional visitors. I think these infrequent/new visitors are more likely to spend on bippity boppity boutique, character dining; since it's more of once in a lifetime trip vs. an Orlando resident who either drives there from home on wknds or stays offsite / maybe even bringing in lunch. If they can consistently fill the non holiday stays - with these expansion efforts - with non APs they might make more money.

 

[subtchr]

We have owned DVC since 2008 and have had many trips during the past 11 years...I know that the DVC AP is still a fairly good price, but I see us losing that discounted price eventually. I just can't imagine what the prices will be like for 2021.

It might not be something you want to do, but you could buy DVC discounted APs now, and just hold onto them until you return. They can be used anytime between now and 2030.

 

[Nick6300]

This makes me sad! I have been eyeballing an AP for a few years now. I think I finally convinced my husband that they make sense for us to purchase them for the family, but now I am not so sure.

It is a bummer. We priced out our typical length of stay for two us for 2 stays, somewhat offpeak in Sept., not accounting for increases or discounts, and the APs would still save about $361. That's just going once in Sept and again the next Sept. And you know park hopper prices are going to increase at least once per yr.

 

[DisneyStarWisher]

It might not be something you want to do, but you could buy DVC discounted APs now, and just hold onto them until you return. They can be used anytime between now and 2030.

I have thought of that, but we just bought a new car and have some home improvement projects that have to be done first. I wish I had about $7500. If I did, I would buy 10 APs for my DH and me to get us through the next 10 years. But that still doesn't solve the issue from 2030-2057 when our DVC expires!

 

[focusondisney]

My PP regarding APs not spending as much as first time visitors or occasional visitors. I think these infrequent/new visitors are more likely to spend on bippity boppity boutique, character dining; since it's more of once in a lifetime trip vs. an Orlando resident who either drives there from home on wknds or stays offsite / maybe even bringing in lunch. If they can consistently fill the non holiday stays - with these expansion efforts - with non APs they might make more money.

Eh, I see it the opposite way too. There are plenty of first time, once in a lifetime people who stay offsite, buy minimal souvenirs & meals onsite & decide they are spending plenty without extra add on events. And there are plenty of AP holders like me: traveling from out of town & staying onsite multiple times a year. Because we have those APs, we have been making 3 trips a year (staying deluxe club level). Before APs, we only went once a year. Because we go so often, we aren’t worried about squeezing in every ride. We do sit down meals every day, many of them signatures. And we are always looking for extras to do. We have done many tours, holiday & dessert parties etc. We have even planned short trips just for the DAH events. For awhile, we weren’t buying as many souvenirs. But I do own 5 Disney Dooney & Bourkes & now that they have added more AP exclusive merchandise, we have been buying more stuff again. So AP holders can spend a lot on souvenirs too. I think generalizations on either group, AP or first timers, can be way off base.

 

[jolynne28]

Eh, I see it the opposite way too. There are plenty of first time, once in a lifetime people who stay offsite, buy minimal souvenirs & meals onsite & decide they are spending plenty without extra add on events. And there are plenty of AP holders like me: traveling from out of town & staying onsite multiple times a year. Because we have those APs, we have been making 3 trips a year (staying deluxe club level). Before APs, we only went once a year. Because we go so often, we aren’t worried about squeezing in every ride. We do sit down meals every day, many of them signatures. And we are always looking for extras to do. We have done many tours, holiday & dessert parties etc. We have even planned short trips just for the DAH events. For awhile, we weren’t buying as many souvenirs. But I do own 5 Disney Dooney & Bourkes & now that they have added more AP exclusive merchandise, we have been buying more stuff again. So AP holders can spend a lot on souvenirs too. I think generalizations on either group, AP or first timers, can be way off base.

I would love to hear more about what experiences you think are worth it from an AP standpoint. After going twice in a 9 month period 2017-2018 we just bought our first AP’s that we’ll use starting in November. I’ve got 3 trips planned on these passes. Our kids are young, 6, 3, infant. We had the dining plan on our first trip with them and went crazy with all the character meals and table service. Honestly it was overwhelming and difficult to be on such a strict schedule between dining and FP’s.
I’d like to do maybe 1 or 2 special things each trip without breaking the bank. What are the dessert parties? Every time I look they are always booked up.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

The rising prices has to control the crowds somehow. I know plenty of people that want to go to WDW but don't because the prices are way too high. I also know people who have stopped going due to the increase in prices. If the prices were lower there would be tons more people IMO.

I don't think the rising prices are to control crowds like Disney says. But I think it does have an effect on crowds.

 

[Nick6300]

Eh, I see it the opposite way too. There are plenty of first time, once in a lifetime people who stay offsite, buy minimal souvenirs & meals onsite & decide they are spending plenty without extra add on events. And there are plenty of AP holders like me: traveling from out of town & staying onsite multiple times a year. Because we have those APs, we have been making 3 trips a year (staying deluxe club level). Before APs, we only went once a year. Because we go so often, we aren’t worried about squeezing in every ride. We do sit down meals every day, many of them signatures. And we are always looking for extras to do. We have done many tours, holiday & dessert parties etc. We have even planned short trips just for the DAH events. For awhile, we weren’t buying as many souvenirs. But I do own 5 Disney Dooney & Bourkes & now that they have added more AP exclusive merchandise, we have been buying more stuff again. So AP holders can spend a lot on souvenirs too. I think generalizations on either group, AP or first timers, can be way off base.

I'm sorry if I offended you. You're right that I shouldn't generalize/speculate what others do. But it does seem like Disney did some analysis and determined that they should squeeze the APs more, given the high rate of pricing increases. The Non FL resident AP prices, however, went up the most at 25% vs. FL resident/DVC of 20%, and FL resident Gold 15% and FL resident Silver 10%. And it seems odd that its not an even rate of increase across the board or even the other way around with the residents increases being a bit higher. If they were truly concerned with the crowds.

As a shareholder, they could increase prices a lot more and the parks will still be busy. There are people willing to pay $600/hr for tour guides. As a guest I don't want there to be large increases to residents or non residents, wishing there were alternatives.

 

[focusondisney]

I'm sorry if I offended you. You're right that I shouldn't generalize/speculate what others do. But it does seem like Disney did some analysis and determined that they should squeeze the APs more, given the high rate of pricing increases. The Non FL resident AP prices, however, went up the most at 25% vs. FL resident/DVC of 20%, and FL resident Gold 15% and FL resident Silver 10%. And it seems odd that its not an even rate of increase across the board or even the other way around with the residents increases being a bit higher. If they were truly concerned with the crowds.

As a shareholder, they could increase prices a lot more and the parks will still be busy. There are people willing to pay $600/hr for tour guides. As a guest I don't want there to be large increases to residents or non residents, wishing there were alternatives.

Oh not offended at all! Just pointing out the other side of the story.....

 

[focusondisney]

I would love to hear more about what experiences you think are worth it from an AP standpoint. After going twice in a 9 month period 2017-2018 we just bought our first AP’s that we’ll use starting in November. I’ve got 3 trips planned on these passes. Our kids are young, 6, 3, infant. We had the dining plan on our first trip with them and went crazy with all the character meals and table service. Honestly it was overwhelming and difficult to be on such a strict schedule between dining and FP’s.
I’d like to do maybe 1 or 2 special things each trip without breaking the bank. What are the dessert parties? Every time I look they are always booked up.

Hard for me to recommend for you, because we are adults in our 60’s & don’t travel with little ones. Back stage tours that we enjoy aren’t really an option for you. The dessert parties might be tho. They are a dining reservation so book at 180 days out, or close to that. Many of the deluxe resorts have cabanas at the pool now & you can get AP discounts at some of them. Depending where you are staying, that might be nice to do on a resort day. A nice place to rest & let the little ones nap out of the sun. And we really like the mini golf which also has an AP discount. The Winter Summerland course would be great for little kids. The theming is so cute. You won’t meet characters, but I think it is a nice, relaxing way to spend a few hours together.

 

[Nick6300]

Oh not offended at all! Just pointing out the other side of the story.....

ok good. I know there are some major spenders who are Platinum out of staters and I'm sure there are some as FL residents too. I know of a fam of 3 from MI who'd budget $10k per week 20 yrs ago... typical meals would be chefs table at Victoria & Albert's. While when we were FL resident AP's we rarely stayed on property because it got too expensive to do that every wknd, and we even started bringing food in. There were days we didn't spend anything there at all. It's a bit different as Platinum holders visiting from IL, only couple of times a yr, wanting the full experience.

 

[bryanb]

As a shareholder, they could increase prices a lot more and the parks will still be busy. There are people willing to pay $600/hr for tour guides. As a guest I don't want there to be large increases to residents or non residents, wishing there were alternatives.

Isn't that the truth! I'm here now and really can't believe how many plaids there are taking VIP tour groups around! Part of it could be me just paying more attention to it, but I'm pretty confident that since they started promoting this to the general public, there are many people who think of it as a great deal and don't mind paying that much.

I used to think I hit top-tier Disney status when I bought my Premier Passport at about $849 plus tax (a princely sum a few years ago that seems like a ridiculous bargain now). But like many on these boards, I realized there's a whole other tier of spending that I never before fathomed. Last trip, I ran into an college friend of mine. His grandparents were celebrating something, and splurged to bring a family of 12 on an 8-day trip. They were staying club level at the Contemporary, Deluxe Dining Plan, with night party tickets, and special extras like fireworks viewing on a boat. He asked where I was staying, and I was almost apologetic in saying Pop Century. Just one of their club hotel rooms probably netted TWDC more profit than my entire vacation.

I do believe in the rules of economics, so I honestly don't blame Disney for matching supply and demand. If they didn't do that, they'd be foolish and cause other problems. But that doesn't make it easier to stomach. On the other hand there are my friends who are Disney fans who can't go with me anymore, because it's hard to prioritize theme park spending when they're schoolteachers or have families to feed. Living in California, we used to all have APs to Disneyland, and now the last friend who has one is going to take a year off with the latest big Star Wars-timed increase... so I'll probably find myself solo in the parks until my own pass expires. We'll see what happens after that!

 

[buckeyeguy1]

We have been APs for two years now. I had been on the fence about renewing after our current APs expire at the end of this year. The recent price increase was indeed the confirmation that we will not be renewing. Even though we are not renewing, we will still make one trip a year.

I have not read through all 40+ pages of this thread, but from what I did read, I decided to look at what income Disney will be losing from us not renewing. I work a lot of overtime, so I made the decision years ago that since overtime keeps me from my family, I would spend the money to keep me with my family.

We are family of 3 that lives out of state. We visit 3+ weeks per year. Usually 2 weeks in a Moderate resort and 1 week in a Deluxe. The two weeks in a Moderate are spring break and Thanksgiving. Deluxe stay was reserved for the more heavily discounted summer trip. There have been a few extra trips here and there, but those were last minute trips we put together and I did not add that into the figures. Just the 3 week long trips. In general, we typically have one table service meal per day and one quick service with a snack or two in between. We spend significantly less in souvenirs now than we did when we first became APs. Count us in for a shirt and a special AP pin from whatever festival Epcot has going on, and a bag of tea from the Spice and Tea Exchange but nothing major beyond that.

I based my 2020 trip figure for a Moderate resort the week of Easter, which historically, would be a fair estimate of what I would be looking at for a Thanksgiving 2020 trip (I couldn't get package prices for that yet for some reason). It was a package with the Park Hopper option. Also it was based on NO discounts.

In total, I am estimating that I will spend approx $6k less in 2020 than I have each of the past two years as an AP with applicable discounts. This is for the whole family, not per person. As I think about it more, this also doesn't count any add-ons we have done in the past (MNSSHP, MVMCP, H2O Glow Nights, Pirate Cruise, tours etc.). Add in any type of possible discount to a 2020 package and the amount spent is far less.

So I guess that if they are doing it for crowd control, they will have one less family there two weeks out of the year. Seeing how I have never had a problem finding a resort room at Disney, I don't think that there are two other families on a waiting list to book a room for the two extra weeks we would have been staying.

 

[monkyby87]

As much as I don't like this, I know there are plenty of people, including some guests here, that will still pay those prices. Disney knows this, so to them it's money left on the table by not increasing their prices.

 

[tex1989]

I feel the same as someone else here who does not understand the biggest increase being for out of state AP's. I mean if you are in state it would seem that you would charge more for that simply because on a cost per day basis they are going to get far more value than the out of state folks. Additionally, the out of state bunch tends to stay on site and then virtually every vacation dollar they spend goes in the Disney pocket. In state is more day visits, less spent on resorts and food. Now I do understand that certain levels of in state passes have blackout dates and I know Disney sells those to help boost attendance during off peak periods. However what I have noticed is that they are getting pretty good at filling the parks in traditionally off peak periods with special events and the Epcot festivals. Frankly from what I see from some Facebook groups I am part of current summer attendance seems to be less than what used to be for the off peak times. We have been during Food and Wine and Flower and Garden for the past few years and it is packed. Last summer trip was three years ago before my wife retired from working in a school where we had to go during the kids time off and frankly that was the least crowded trip we have had in three years. I think the heat is a bigger driver of attendance currently than anything else. All that being said I think Disney thinks (at least it is nice for them to think it because they win either way) that price increases in all areas will somehow help with crowds and attendance and somehow regulate it. I don't think so! People like my wife and I will continue to go and unfortunately we have much greater price elasticity than many. I think a lot of the folks that really enjoy their Disney vacations have greater price elasticity and the increases will not have the effect they think. But from their standpoint it's no big deal because if the crowds stay the same as the prices rise they just payoff the expansions sooner. And with the number of projects they have planned I don't think the increases are going to slow down anytime soon.

Attendance would have to drop like a rock before we ever saw much in the way of drops, or even stability in pricing. Theme parks are the reliable cash cows of Disney's portfolio and will continue to be so into the foreseeable future.

 

[Nick6300]

Isn't that the truth! I'm here now and really can't believe how many plaids there are taking VIP tour groups around! Part of it could be me just paying more attention to it, but I'm pretty confident that since they started promoting this to the general public, there are many people who think of it as a great deal and don't mind paying that much.

I used to think I hit top-tier Disney status when I bought my Premier Passport at about $849 plus tax (a princely sum a few years ago that seems like a ridiculous bargain now). But like many on these boards, I realized there's a whole other tier of spending that I never before fathomed. Last trip, I ran into an college friend of mine. His grandparents were celebrating something, and splurged to bring a family of 12 on an 8-day trip. They were staying club level at the Contemporary, Deluxe Dining Plan, with night party tickets, and special extras like fireworks viewing on a boat. He asked where I was staying, and I was almost apologetic in saying Pop Century. Just one of their club hotel rooms probably netted TWDC more profit than my entire vacation.

I do believe in the rules of economics, so I honestly don't blame Disney for matching supply and demand. If they didn't do that, they'd be foolish and cause other problems. But that doesn't make it easier to stomach. On the other hand there are my friends who are Disney fans who can't go with me anymore, because it's hard to prioritize theme park spending when they're schoolteachers or have families to feed. Living in California, we used to all have APs to Disneyland, and now the last friend who has one is going to take a year off with the latest big Star Wars-timed increase... so I'll probably find myself solo in the parks until my own pass expires. We'll see what happens after that!

As a DL local, do you prefer the paper FPs or the WDW system? Having had recent visits to the Asian DLs, I miss the paper FPs, not having to try to plan dining with FPs, essentially having to plan where you'll be all the time.

There are a rise of non Disney tours where you don't have the FP line access, but it's a lot cheaper at 'only' a few hundred/hr, undercutting Disney, or fixed rate for an am if you have a large enough group. I was 2nd in line at AK last summer and the 21 yr old local in front of me moved in his "tour group" of 3-4 families in front of us after about an hr of waiting for park open. This kid was telling me that he quit his job, moved down to FL, and now he's a tour guide, and he blogs/provides reviews online for the ad sponsors and followers. The line to the right of us had another non disney affliated tour that was even bigger. Just for not having to wait the full 90 min. before the rush to FoP, having someone tell them about the rides, the families were willing to pay big bucks. It's not that difficult to do a little research, even fun for many of us... but when you have money to burn... I was thinking at the time, I'm sure Disney knows about these tours, but it's not to the point where they feel the need to do anything. The only thing they could do is get rid of APs.

 

[LSUmiss]

Walt is turning over in his grave right now I guarantee it. He didn't build Disneyworld so that "only rich parents and only rich kids could have fun together"

Sorry but anyone bemoaning the price increase on an out-of-state ap thst allows you to vacation multiple times of year is not the average family.

 

[LSUmiss]

I wonder if the calculus is more complex than simply the economy is good + parks are crowded = huge ticket price increase.

Some years back, there was a discussion that included data points on the amount each visitor spends while in the park. Yes, ticket price was a big component, but food & beverage, souvenirs and whatnot were included.

I have been curious to learn if the increase in attendance has resulted in a decrease of per visitor spend--simply because the crowds "get in the way" of people being able to make purchases at the rate they otherwise might.

This is a good point. We have avoided many snack & shop lines b/c of obnoxious lines.

 

[Nick6300]

I feel the same as someone else here who does not understand the biggest increase being for out of state AP's. I mean if you are in state it would seem that you would charge more for that simply because on a cost per day basis they are going to get far more value than the out of state folks. Additionally, the out of state bunch tends to stay on site and then virtually every vacation dollar they spend goes in the Disney pocket. In state is more day visits, less spent on resorts and food. Now I do understand that certain levels of in state passes have blackout dates and I know Disney sells those to help boost attendance during off peak periods. However what I have noticed is that they are getting pretty good at filling the parks in traditionally off peak periods with special events and the Epcot festivals. Frankly from what I see from some Facebook groups I am part of current summer attendance seems to be less than what used to be for the off peak times. We have been during Food and Wine and Flower and Garden for the past few years and it is packed. Last summer trip was three years ago before my wife retired from working in a school where we had to go during the kids time off and frankly that was the least crowded trip we have had in three years. I think the heat is a bigger driver of attendance currently than anything else. All that being said I think Disney thinks (at least it is nice for them to think it because they win either way) that price increases in all areas will somehow help with crowds and attendance and somehow regulate it. I don't think so! People like my wife and I will continue to go and unfortunately we have much greater price elasticity than many. I think a lot of the folks that really enjoy their Disney vacations have greater price elasticity and the increases will not have the effect they think. But from their standpoint it's no big deal because if the crowds stay the same as the prices rise they just payoff the expansions sooner. And with the number of projects they have planned I don't think the increases are going to slow down anytime soon.

Attendance would have to drop like a rock before we ever saw much in the way of drops, or even stability in pricing. Theme parks are the reliable cash cows of Disney's portfolio and will continue to be so into the foreseeable future.

I'm with you. I didn't want to single out FL passholders, this isn't great for them either.

Until recently, we've come to expect annual ticket price increases (i.e. early Feb) of something like 5% I think. As far as I know, there have never been price decreases, and only 2 yrs in row in the late 70's where prices were stagnant. Our total budget including flights has doubled since 2013, for essentially the same experience, same hotel.

I haven't previously complained that openly in the past regarding price increases, because Disney could slap another 50% or even 100% to their ticket prices for the 50th anniversary, and I'm likely going to try to find a way to save enough to go. I may visit less frequently, but I wouldn't stop attending. I've never even gone to Universal, thinking it was disloyal to support Comcast. Which is foolish, I know.

 

[LSUmiss]

Eh, I see it the opposite way too. There are plenty of first time, once in a lifetime people who stay offsite, buy minimal souvenirs & meals onsite & decide they are spending plenty without extra add on events. And there are plenty of AP holders like me: traveling from out of town & staying onsite multiple times a year. Because we have those APs, we have been making 3 trips a year (staying deluxe club level). Before APs, we only went once a year. Because we go so often, we aren’t worried about squeezing in every ride. We do sit down meals every day, many of them signatures. And we are always looking for extras to do. We have done many tours, holiday & dessert parties etc. We have even planned short trips just for the DAH events. For awhile, we weren’t buying as many souvenirs. But I do own 5 Disney Dooney & Bourkes & now that they have added more AP exclusive merchandise, we have been buying more stuff again. So AP holders can spend a lot on souvenirs too. I think generalizations on either group, AP or first timers, can be way off base.

This is us. We go way more often with APs that without b/c we have them. With all of this, I just bought one at Sam’s & now are talking about at least 3 more trips. When we go, we stay onsite & eat only table service.