18% Gratutiy

[TLSnell1981]

Kevin,
Isn't this kind of like penalizing the servers for something that really isn't their fault?

The servers are members of the union,therefore have culpability in this matter.

 

[DisneyKevin]

But the note accompanies a 20 - 25% gratuity and is passed along to the management.

Why would a server feel bad about this?

I have not judged his/her service unaccordingly. In fact, I have rewarded his/her service rather well. Keep in mind that 15% is pretty much the standard gratuity in most places I have frequented with anything above that being a reward for exceptional service.

If I am mandated to pay 18% then my decsion has been made for me and I will accept that, but will no longer come up with anything more.

I have read this entire thread and I keep coming back to the thought that dining out is a luxury, a whim, something fun....it is not a life necessity. If we decide that we no longer want to pay an 18% service charge and stop frequenting Disney restaurants...then that will hurt servers.

18% of nothing leaves nothing.

 

[SamIAm21]

Kevin, I feel your quiet, respectful protest is far better than what the servers will probably get by those who may not be so tuned in to the news coming out of Disney when they dine with their DDE cards in 2008. Can you image the upset when that first DDE member sees this service charge on their bill and are caught unaware!? Oh my!!



The servers should not be upset by Kevin's protest as they do have the power to change the situation. If enough of them speak up, I'm sure this charge will be rethought. Personally, I have no use for either DDP or DDE anymore! Disney has really gone and ruined some good things. I too am a 20% tipper (in most cases) as it's just easier math. If they are going charge me 18% then so be it, that's all they would get. At least it saves me the math quiz at the end of the meal.

 

[wdwowner]

Kevin, I understand what you are doing any why.

The only thing I am concerned about is the way management will take your note as poor service against the server.

I work in the automotive industry and when there is a problem with a part the big 3 will mark it against us (Ding) even if it is not our fault. The upper management does not see or care about the reasons, just the number of 'Dings' against us. I'm just hope the same thing does not happen to the servers that get your note on your/their bill.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I think there is a better way to show your small protest against the Company.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Kevin, I feel your quiet, respectful protest is far better than what the servers will probably get by those who may not be so tuned in to the news coming out of Disney when they dine with their DDE cards in 2008. Can you image the upset when that first DDE member sees this service charge on their bill and are caught unaware!? Oh my!!



The servers should not be upset by Kevin's protest as they do have the power to change the situation. If enough of them speak up, I'm sure this charge will be rethought. Personally, I have no use for either DDP or DDE anymore! Disney has really gone and ruined some good things. I too am a 20% tipper (in most cases) as it's just easier math. If they are going charge me 18% then so be it, that's all they would get. At least it saves me the math quiz at the end of the meal.

This won't be rethought, at least, until the next contract negotiations come up. I'm sure the lousy servers are happy, since they will now make the same money a terrific one will. Why is it Disney's fault? The server is in a union, who represents them. They negotiated this.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I have no knowledge of Disney management judging their employees in this manner.

I also have to give the management the benefit of the doubt in that I am leaving a healthy tip.

I am not suggesting that anyone stiff a server. I am suggesting that if more people did this, Disney management would see that guests are not happy with this new policy.

Disney Cruise Line just recently imposed a $100 tariff on all guests traveling on either of the 2008 Panama Canal cruises. They informed guests in the same way DDE guests were informed...via email blast. It caused such public outrage that people started calling, writing letters, talking to the news media, voicing their opinions on these boards etc that DCL later rescinded this ridiculous charge.

I dont believe that any of the people fielding phone calls at DCL were disciplined in any way because of guest reaction and I dont see how explaining that if I am forced to pay an 18% service charge that I refuse to add any additional tip would equate to a server being disciplined.

In fact, I think not adding an additional tip and not saying anything at all reflects worse on a server than my note about company policy. At least I am explaining why I refuse to add addional tip/service charge.

 

[Califgirl]

Keep in mind that 15% is pretty much the standard gratuity in most places I have frequented with anything above that being a reward for exceptional service.

Herein lies the problem. At resorts (and WDW is a resort) the standard tip is actually 20% - 22%. I worked for years at a five diamond / four star Resort and when the gratuity was added (for large company/ convention groups - and it was taken care of by their company not the individual patron) it was always 22%. There are many places in the world that don't tip at all, and many places in our own country that tip much less than is tipped at resorts. It is a little bit of a heads up to travelers that things are different here at resorts. WDW knows that they get people from all walks of life and from all over the world. They also know that their servers should be able to make a certain amount in tips due to the fact they are working in a resort area. If people from Europe don't tip at all, and people from other parts of the country tip what is customary in their town, it can really hurt the servers. I think Disney feels that the 18% is customary for their area for standard service (resort, but not 4 star) and this amount will keep the servers close to the wages they have been getting in the past.

I understand that people don't like to be 'told' what to pay. I too think that Disney did this badly, the DDE would not have been my target audience to add on a mandatory gratuity. DDE holders eat out a lot and know how to tip. But, the fact is tipping is part of the cost of eating out, and it amazes me how many posts I've read where people want an excuse not to tip at all. (not you, DisneyKevin, or most people who understand dining out - but there have been a few posts on the DIS with the attitude of 'well, they'll never see me again'. yikes!)

 

[DisneyKevin]

Hi Califgirl,

I truly understand what you are saying and a 22% gratuity at a convention is "normal", but a convention also includes a great deal of additional work. Often, a "restaurant" atmosphere is crested where there is originally none (ex. a ballroom setting) There is more to consider than just the servers.

That is not what we are talking about here. Nor are we talking about tourists from another country who dont understand tipping in the US. We are talking about Disney's hardcore audience. You need to be an annual passholder or a Florida resident to get a DDE card. I have to believe that for anyone willing to shell out bucks for a DDE card, they must believe that they are going to get some value for their investment so therefore they must plan on dining out quite a bit.

And again...while I am against the mandatory 18% and even more against continuing to call it a gratuity, I will abide by the rules. But I am also for letting folks know if service does not warrant an 18% charge and why I am not going to add anything over and above what I am mandated to pay.

 

[fakereadhed]

Nor are we talking about tourists from another country who dont understand tipping in the US. We are talking about Disney's hardcore audience. You need to be an annual passholder or a Florida resident to get a DDE card.

Excellent point! Disney should pay attention to what their most frequent guests have to say.

I think everyone is overthinking a simple note written on a check.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Herein lies the problem. At resorts (and WDW is a resort) the standard tip is actually 20% - 22%. I worked for years at a five diamond / four star Resort and when the gratuity was added (for large company/ convention groups - and it was taken care of by their company not the individual patron) it was always 22%. There are many places in the world that don't tip at all, and many places in our own country that tip much less than is tipped at resorts. It is a little bit of a heads up to travelers that things are different here at resorts. WDW knows that they get people from all walks of life and from all over the world. They also know that their servers should be able to make a certain amount in tips due to the fact they are working in a resort area. If people from Europe don't tip at all, and people from other parts of the country tip what is customary in their town, it can really hurt the servers. I think Disney feels that the 18% is customary for their area for standard service (resort, but not 4 star) and this amount will keep the servers close to the wages they have been getting in the past.

I understand that people don't like to be 'told' what to pay. I too think that Disney did this badly, the DDE would not have been my target audience to add on a mandatory gratuity. DDE holders eat out a lot and know how to tip. But, the fact is tipping is part of the cost of eating out, and it amazes me how many posts I've read where people want an excuse not to tip at all. (not you, DisneyKevin, or most people who understand dining out - but there have been a few posts on the DIS with the attitude of 'well, they'll never see me again'. yikes!)

OMG! You give them 18% now they are going to want 20%-22%. These are service charges, call them what they are. A gratuity is a gift of money given over and above payment for service due or ....something given without claim or DEMAND.

People from Europe don't tip, so this was added to DDE. Doesn't make sense to me. How many people from Europe have the DDE?

Disney did this badly? They didn't wake up one morning and say "I think I'll call the union and force them to put this into contract negotiations."

Good server, bad server, mediocre server....doesn't matter.....no incentive any more....they all make the same.

I usually tip good service 25%...bad or mediocre service around 15%. This isn't about the money. Some get it....some don't.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Excellent point! Disney should pay attention to what their most frequent guests have to say.

I think everyone is overthinking a simple note written on a check.

I agree. I think I would add: In protest to the 18% service charge...

 

[pinkerbell]

Right on Kevin!
I get what your doing...

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I understand what Kevin is trying to do and respect his decision. However, I guess I'm just jaded, but I feel like Disney doesn't really care what is written on a bill as long as payment comes along with it. Now when the money stops rolling in, then they might start paying attention. And yes, I definitely agree that's when the servers would truly suffer...it's just kind of a stinky situation all the way around!

 

[lilyv]

Kevin, I understand what you are doing any why.

The only thing I am concerned about is the way management will take your note as poor service against the server.

I work in the automotive industry and when there is a problem with a part the big 3 will mark it against us (Ding) even if it is not our fault. The upper management does not see or care about the reasons, just the number of 'Dings' against us. I'm just hope the same thing does not happen to the servers that get your note on your/their bill.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I think there is a better way to show your small protest against the Company.

Thanks, wdwowner, for your post. I have the exact same concerns. Some poor server may get in serious trouble-the assumption being will be that the server must have done something to make the guest angry enough to write a short warning/advisory. I think, if one wants to protest, that it's far better to go straight to management in writing. Talk to the server, let the server know, verbally, nicely, your concerns....but written documentation on a check may be used against some innocent server just trying to make ends meet.

 

[Minnie's Mate]

I'm sorry, but I think everyone is being a little naive here. You think, "poor server who had no control over the issue." Well it was their union and they voted on the issue! If they didn't like this single issue, they could have had the union fight it...that's what union negotiators do. You say it was Disney's decision, but why would they mandate the gratuity if they weren't forced to by the union as a concession for something else. If it was because the DDP folks were complaining about their service and the gratuity being included and they had no say over the tip, then why should we DDE members who actually pay for the DDE be forced to have no say in the tip amount when the DDP folks who get it for free get that privilege! My main beef is that it singles out the DDE customer and not an across the board policy. That is discriminatory.

I love Disney as much as anyone else on these boards or maybe even more than a lot of people here on these boards but I will be the first to speak up when Disney does something that I don't like. I'm not blinded by the pixie dust to the point that I will blindly defend Disney with my life like some here appear to be willing to do. This policy is wrong, I don't think it is actually legal, and I don't like it. If the servers get their feelings hurt when one of us puts our displeasure in writing then whose fault is that? It's Disney's fault not mine or any other customer's because we didn't make this policy decision, Disney did. We are just expressing our displeasure about it. If the server is the one that gets hurt, so be it. Why should the customer be the one that gets hurt by having our rights infringed upon. It's our money we are talking about, not the servers. The server just happens to be the one that Disney put in the middle. Better a Disney employee in the middle than the customer (i.e. me) in my book!

I agree with DisneyKevin, if I bought a discount coupon and was then forced to pay a service charge to use it, I wouldn't be happy. How would you feel if you paid $25 for an Entertainment Book (or whatever they cost these days) and went to one of the participating restaurants and used the coupon and was told that you have to pay a mandatory tip just because you used the discount? Only difference is we are talking about Disney and not some unloved chain restaurant.

The reason I haven't canceled my DDE yet is because so far our first planned trip to Disney after January 1st is in July and I think if enough of us complain, and enough of us write little notes like DisneyKevin described, Disney may just cancel this policy. If not, then I'll make that decision when I see if whether they change the policy or not.

 

[DisDarling]

Well I for one will be arguing this "gratuity" if my service is bad- why would they even bother trying then if they KNOW they already have your tip before they even take your order?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Your mis use of the term at this point helps to spread the misinformation and misunderstanding.

You mean my intentional relabelling of this mandatory fee? I mean, you say tomayto/I say tomahto; Disney says auto-gratuity/the real world considers it a service charge.

It was my understanding that this mandatory "gratuity" came about from negotiations with the servers union... so

Nope. There isn't a separate servers' union. One union represents well over 10,000 Cast Members; the servers make up less than 20% of my number, and an even smaller percentage of the actual number.

I'm sorry, but I think everyone is being a little naive here. You think, "poor server who had no control over the issue." Well it was their union and they voted on the issue! If they didn't like this single issue, they could have had the union fight it...that's what union negotiators do.

Let's work with smaller numbers - say, 1% of the actual union membership.
You've got sixteen people in the union. Fourteen of them are non-servers, two are servers. The two naturally don't want this contract passed with this condition. They go to the union officials and state their position. The entire union meets; these two people speak passionately about why the contract should be turned down in its current incarnation. They even influence two more members to vote against it. But the remainder of the contract is acceptable to the remainder of the members, and the tip/grat/fee issue does not affect them in any way - so, everybody votes and it passes... because the majority voted to accept it.

then why should we DDE members who actually pay for the DDE be forced to have no say in the tip amount when the DDP folks who get it for free

Sigh... free dining is a LIMITED-PERIOD promotion. MOST Guests using the Disney Dining Plan PAY for it - it's NOT free.

If the servers get their feelings hurt when one of us puts our displeasure in writing then whose fault is that?

It doesn't have to be written AT the server. The same message can be written on the check but addressed to management/accounting.

How would you feel if you paid $25 for an Entertainment Book (or whatever they cost these days) and went to one of the participating restaurants and used the coupon and was told that you have to pay a mandatory tip just because you used the discount?

Do you have one? Have you checked the coupons? I know for SURE that some of the restaurant.com certificates require payment of a mandatory 18% on the pre-certificate price.

And, DisDarling - because they DON'T know how you're paying until after the meal.

 

[DisneyKevin]

One union represents well over 10,000 Cast Members; the servers make up less than 20% of my number, and an even smaller percentage of the actual number.

From my understanding, less than 20% of the union members turned out to vote one way or another.

the majority voted to accept it.

As mentioned above, the majority didnt show up to vote....the majority of less than 20% of the union members voted on this.

Sigh

The sighing comes off as a bit condescending and unnecessary. No one is being forced to participate in this conversation.

Kevin

 

[dpuck1998]

From my understanding, less than 20% of the union members turned out to vote one way or another.

Kevin

So, that means if all the servers showed up to vote then they could have voted it down....interesting...

 

[fakereadhed]

From my understanding, less than 20% of the union members turned out to vote one way or another.

People show up to vote for things they feel are important. Seems like they didn't care either way about the issue. That's a good reason to bring the issue up to the server, by maybe writing a comment on the check or something.

The automatic gratuity is such a hot issue, but just like everything else from politics to school issues, everybody wants to complain and nobody wants to do anything about it. Go, Kevin!