18% Gratutiy

[kaytieeldr]

If you pay with cash and left only the total discounted total plus what you felt was a reasonable tip, would the managers, servers, or some new bouncer types chase you out the door demanding that you pay more? Would they throw you out of the park if you refused to pay it? What leverage would they have other than canceling your DDE?

Well, okay, my understanding is that you won't be able to pay for the meal then leave the tip (cash or credit). Your bill will be for the FULL amount, and at the end of the day the cash/credit cards/room charges have to balance against what was rung into the register. You'll have to pay the full amount that's on the check, the whatever-you-want-to-call-it not being optional. You won't be able to simply cross out the amount on "that" line on the check and write in a new amount and expect to have that accepted as payment.

If the food service workers were out numbered by the non-food service worker CM's, why would the non-food service workers care about where the gratuities come from for the food service workers?

It's not that the non-servers care about the source of the tip income - it's that they don't care about the tip income, period. Tipping changes included in the current contract just plain don't concern or affect the majority of union members, so those changes simply didn't matter - to enough CMs that the contract was accepted.

How happy will they be with this union if

The servers weren't happy when it was presented, they weren't happy when it was accepted

 

[wilde_oscar]

if the union didn't like it, they should have voted down the contract. But they voted in the contract... so they can live with it, or find new jobs.

There is already case law on “required gratuity”… if ya call it a gratuity it cannot be mandatory. Change the name to service charge, then you have something with teeth.

 

[kaytieeldr]

"The union" has about 14,000 members.
About 2,000 of those - if that many - are servers.
Because any change in Disney's gratuity/tip/service charge policy does not in ANY way affect the majority of both the union members or the subset of non-server union members, said change was obviously not a reason for that majority to turn down the contract.

 

[TLSnell1981]

"The union" has about 14,000 members.
About 2,000 of those - if that many - are servers.
Because any change in Disney's gratuity/tip/service charge policy does not in ANY way affect the majority of both the union members or the subset of non-server union members, said change was obviously not a reason for that majority to turn down the contract.

I have been so curious as to why the union had this included at all....seeing as supposedly none of the servers wanted it. I really find it hard to believe none of them wanted it after reading this board. It had to originate from the union and its servers. No restaurant would insist on this being in a contract, especially the mess this is. I do believe than no server that is good at their job would want this. It takes away from their performance. They receive the same as anyone else....regardless of the job they do.

 

[wilde_oscar]

"The union" has about 14,000 members.
About 2,000 of those - if that many - are servers.
Because any change in Disney's gratuity/tip/service charge policy does not in ANY way affect the majority of both the union members or the subset of non-server union members, said change was obviously not a reason for that majority to turn down the contract.

so the rest of the union looked at that part of the contract and thought... oh, so the servers now have to work for the tip just like every other restaurant, oh well.

This change just takes the teeth out of the DDE and sets DDP up to be more like the rest of the universe. If you don't like it, don't go, or don't use it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I have been so curious as to why the union had this included at all....

The union didn't want it in, or at least apparently it didn't matter to them as much as other points. DISNEY included the tipping changes, and they were non-negotiable.

 

[Minnie's Mate]

The union didn't want it in, or at least apparently it didn't matter to them as much as other points. DISNEY included the tipping changes, and they were non-negotiable.

This is all so confusing. The union didn't want it, the servers didn't want it, the non-servers didn't want it, then who the heck did? If it was Disney, then why only the DDE? That doesn't make sense.

If legal precedence has been set that you can't have a mandatory gratuity, then they certainly should know it won't stand.

Earlier when I talked about leaving cash, I meant cash for the entire bill, not just the tip. If your bill is $100 and it is discounted to $80 and they add the $18 gratuity and you felt the service was only worth $10 and leave four $20's and a $10, what will Disney do then? Will they send you a bill in the mail since they know your address from the DDE? Will they refuse to allow you in the park the next day? Will they cancel your DDE? (OK, they may do the last one.) Disney can't get more money from you if you didn't charge the meal to your room or to a credit card. But I still don't think Disney can change a credit card receipt after it has been signed. If they do you can dispute the charge and then they loose the entire amount of the bill, not just the tip amount and you can claim credit card fraud.

I guess if you keep your credit card receipt and it doesn't match your credit card statement when you get home, you can dispute the charge and file fraud charges against the server. After Disney has to go bail out enough of their servers from jail on fraud charges they will have to replace a lot of servers who refuse to return to work or change policy.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The union didn't want it in, or at least apparently it didn't matter to them as much as other points. DISNEY included the tipping changes, and they were non-negotiable.

I have read that this concession was given to the union because the gratuity was removed from the DDP. The union seems like it wants to just cop out on this one.

 

[lilyv]

This is all so confusing. The union didn't want it, the servers didn't want it, the non-servers didn't want it, then who the heck did? If it was Disney, then why only the DDE? That doesn't make sense.

If legal precedence has been set that you can't have a mandatory gratuity, then they certainly should know it won't stand.

Earlier when I talked about leaving cash, I meant cash for the entire bill, not just the tip. If your bill is $100 and it is discounted to $80 and they add the $18 gratuity and you felt the service was only worth $10 and leave four $20's and a $10, what will Disney do then? Will they send you a bill in the mail since they know your address from the DDE? Will they refuse to allow you in the park the next day? Will they cancel your DDE? (OK, they may do the last one.) Disney can't get more money from you if you didn't charge the meal to your room or to a credit card. But I still don't think Disney can change a credit card receipt after it has been signed. If they do you can dispute the charge and then they loose the entire amount of the bill, not just the tip amount and you can claim credit card fraud.

I guess if you keep your credit card receipt and it doesn't match your credit card statement when you get home, you can dispute the charge and file fraud charges against the server. After Disney has to go bail out enough of their servers from jail on fraud charges they will have to replace a lot of servers who refuse to return to work or change policy.

We're talking hypothetically here, but:
I would either follow the terms to the letter, or not use the DDE. You might be exactly right in disputing charges, but what happens when/if Disney decides to take the position that you walked the check---or at least a portion of it? I can't see the aggravation, embarrassment, or both would be remotely worth the discount. What could they do? They could appeal to your CC company (put bad debt in file), cancel the DDE, etc. I have no idea if they would, but..... How many guests do you think they will allow to protest their mandatory gratuity? My guess is they will expect DDE'ers to follow the rules, or just quit using the card. Disney took a nice program, and seems to want to make it very unappealing. That's a shame.

I totally hear, and agree with your frustration. They are sticking it to really good, decent customers. Most businesses would think that was nuts!!!

 

[Minnie's Mate]

I, personally, think they should have sent out this e-mail last July when the contract was signed and they knew this was coming rather than wait 'till the last minute and try and catch people off guard. For me it would have meant that I would have probably not renewed in October. But as it is I renewed and after it's too late to make a decision but before I have had a chance to even use the discount they change the rules. I wasn't allowed to make an informed decision on renewing so I think I should be given a full refund if I want it at this point.

They are either trying to screw their most loyal customers or trying to do away with the DDE by making it unappealing. Either way, the timing of what they are doing is pretty low on the ethics scale and not what Walt would have done in the least!

 

[kaytieeldr]

This is all so confusing. The union didn't want it, the servers didn't want it, the non-servers didn't want it, then who the heck did? If it was Disney, then why only the DDE? That doesn't make sense.

To phrase it better - it was not a sticking point with the union as a whole - officers and the majority of members - and therefore not a sticking point, i.e. did not affect them personally, for any of the union members in non-server positions. So since it didn't affect them and they didn't care about it, there was no reason for the majority of union members/voters to reject the contract due to the tipping changes.

Earlier when I talked about leaving cash, I meant cash for the entire bill, not just the tip. If your bill is $100 and it is discounted to $80 and they add the $18 gratuity and you felt the service was only worth $10 and leave four $20's and a $10, what will Disney do then?

I think it's come up several times earlier in this thread - according to Disney, if the Guest feels service was not 'worth' the 18% service charge, the issue should be discussed with a manager. It's also been recommended that the diner not wait until the check arrives to draw attention to the service problems (well, unless GETTING the check WAS the problem).

 

[kaytieeldr]

Disney has to go bail out enough of their servers

*
Do you honestly think this change was done on a whim, with no research or preplanning? That Disney does not already know the legality of it? Give that virtually (allowing for the occasional non-computer owner) ALL Disney Dining Experience members have been notified of the change, the diner can't then claim deception at the time of the meal.

*Sorry for the exasperation, but since the service charge will be PART of the check, I'm not sure the diner, knowing that said charge will be included on their check, CAN change the total. It'd be like going to oh, Walgreen's on January 2 and charging an order that rings up at $25 - but changing the amount to $22 before signing the charge slip because that's what that same order cost you on December 28.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I wasn't allowed to make an informed decision on renewing so I think I should be given a full refund if I want it at this point.

Is this a hyperbolic "so I think I should...", or an actual one? If the latter, have you tried contacting Disney and cancelling your DDE because of the change?

 

[wilde_oscar]

*
Do you honestly think this change was done on a whim, with no research or preplanning? That Disney does not already know the legality of it? Give that virtually (allowing for the occasional non-computer owner) ALL Disney Dining Experience members have been notified of the change, the diner can't then claim deception at the time of the meal.

*Sorry for the exasperation, but since the service charge will be PART of the check, I'm not sure the diner, knowing that said charge will be included on their check, CAN change the total. It'd be like going to oh, Walgreen's on January 2 and charging an order that rings up at $25 - but changing the amount to $22 before signing the charge slip because that's what that same order cost you on December 28.

In hair splitting mode, that is the big change... this is not being called a service charge, it is being called a gratuity. Your mis use of the term at this point helps to spread the misinformation and misunderstanding.

This is one of those situations that looks great on paper, but once ya have to put it in practical use... I have little doubt there will be DDE folks raising a stink starting on Jan 1, 2008. But since it is a contract point, no doubt this is a silly policy that will stick... or Disney officials knew that once the customers complain enough they can back pedal on this policy as well.

 

[DisneyKevin]

:

*Sorry for the exasperation, but since the service charge will be PART of the check, I'm not sure the diner, knowing that said charge will be included on their check, CAN change the total. It'd be like going to oh, Walgreen's on January 2 and charging an order that rings up at $25 - but changing the amount to $22 before signing the charge slip because that's what that same order cost you on December 28.

I'm not sure that this example really works as I imagine there would be public outrage if Walgreens allowed you to use coupons (that you had to pay for) and then charged an 18% service charge because you did.

If you feel that your service was not worthy of a mandatory 18% gratuity / service charge you do have options.

As you do not hand over you DDE card until it's time to pay the check, you have a choice of using the card. Should you decide to not use the card, you will then have the power to decide the gratuity.

You can also speak with a manager. If you are not 100% satisfied with your service, I recommend you do this. As this is now a service that you are paying for (and no longer just rewarding), you have the right to expect excellent, top notch service.

As DDE card holders and good tippers (always 20% or more), we have started writing on each and every check we receive that "once a mandatory 18% service charge is added, then that is the only gratuity you will receive."

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

As DDE card holders and good tippers (always 20% or more), we have started writing on each and every check we receive that "once a mandatory 18% service charge is added, then that is the only gratuity you will receive."

Kevin,
Isn't this kind of like penalizing the servers for something that really isn't their fault?

 

[Califgirl]

As DDE card holders and good tippers (always 20% or more), we have started writing on each and every check we receive that "once a mandatory 18% service charge is added, then that is the only gratuity you will receive."

That just seems a little mean spirited to the poor server who recieves this note. It's not their fault, wasn't their decision to put the gratuity on the bill, and they have no power whatsoever over this situation.

Just leave the gratuity as is, without snide comments. Why would someone go out of their way to ruin a servers day?

 

[jensen]

That just seems a little mean spirited to the poor server who recieves this note. It's not their fault, wasn't their decision to put the gratuity on the bill, and they have no power whatsoever over this situation.

Just leave the gratuity as is, without snide comments. Why would someone go out of their way to ruin a servers day?

It was my understanding that this mandatory "gratuity" came about from negotiations with the servers union... so, it WAS the servers decision to put the "gratuity" on the bill and they do have power over the situation.

 

[DisneyKevin]

If you feel that leaving a 20 - 25% gratuity and explaining that once I am forced to pay an 18% service charge, then they will be losing money is penalizing a server or being snide....well then so be it.

I actually spoke with the most recent server who received this note and he thanked me. Told me that servers HATE this new service charge and that he was happy that "Accounting" would see that guests arent happy.

I forget the actual figure, but we discussed on a past podcast that a a very small percentage of Disney employees turned out to vote on the new contract.

Sorry...but I dont feel sorry for those who have the opportunity and dont speak up for what they want and need.

 

[wdwowner]

Maybe instead of writing a note on the check, maybe hand the manager a note explaining your point of view on the 18%, and ask that the note be passed along with the check. This way the server is not made to feel bad, and management will see your complaint and will handle it just like any other complaint.

The more WDW management sees complaints will point out to them your issues and will need to confront the issue to all WDW customers.

It just seems like a better way of handling the 18%. If you were the server how would you feel about a note like that on your service when you are just the middle person in all of this?