Moving People to DVC Resorts during Reopening. Is it right?

[New Mouse]

Like I said then Disney can do what they want and as owners we have no say. I wonder how many times this has happened but no one new why

They cant if people speak up. They havent had the brightest bulbs running the show over the years... Aulani fiasco...OKW extension...point chart retraction. Ultimate point is they dont really understand the contract either. At the end of the day their goal is to sell more DVC and use the tricks they know of to make Dis more $ where they can...and then hopefully get promoted somewhere else with Dis. So its up to the members to look out for themselves. Disney acts like they have a free pass, but they actually dont.

 

[Chuck S]

How would you decide you ask, just upgrade the owners who have had there booking cancelled because of the 50% rule if they wanted say a 1 or 2 bedroom using more than 50% but had it cancelled give them the upgrade and give those from values studios. Not 1/2 bedrooms or GV that's like a kick in the teeth.

There are legal reasons that DVC can't routinely upgrade members on point reservations, except for maintenance issues. It would create, on a regular basis, the situation we may be seeing now with the oversupply of points in the system due to the COVID closures that has led to the 50% borrowing rule, that hopefully is temporary. It would be the same as illegally overselling a resort.

 

[Sandisw]

How would you decide you ask, just upgrade the owners who have had there booking cancelled because of the 50% rule if they wanted say a 1 or 2 bedroom using more than 50% but had it cancelled give them the upgrade and give those from values studios. Not 1/2 bedrooms or GV that's like a kick in the teeth.

We can agree to disagree then. I have no issue with what Disney does with their points...or with rooms they are entitled to take...just like I take no issue with any other owner who chooses to use their points the way they want.

 

[CarolMN]

Ignore anyone that thinks cash guests treat DVC villas worse than a member does. People that take care of hotel rooms take care of them regardless and members do as much damage as anyone.
Hope you have a great trip.

@gmflash88 - what Sammie said with emphasis - and I'm almost positive that most DVC Members agree.

 

[going/again]

There are legal reasons that DVC can't routinely upgrade members on point reservations, except for maintenance issues. It would create, on a regular basis, the situation we may be seeing now with the oversupply of points in the system due to the COVID closures that has led to the 50% borrowing rule, that hopefully is temporary. It would be the same as illegally overselling a resort.

Not saying it should be done routinely I think that while they are upgrading cash guests to DVC, then they should consider helping DVC members out, let's not forget DVC caused this imbalance and it's DVC that put the 50% only on borrowing.
And you say for legal reasons, DVC hasn't always been bound by legal reasons.

 

[Sandisw]

Not saying it should be done routinely I think that while they are upgrading cash guests to DVC, then they should consider helping DVC members out, let's not forget DVC caused this imbalance and it's DVC that put the 50% only on borrowing.
And you say for legal reasons, DVC hasn't always been bound by legal reasons.

Curious....when have they not been bound by legal reasons?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

How would you decide you ask, just upgrade the owners who have had there booking cancelled because of the 50% rule if they wanted say a 1 or 2 bedroom using more than 50% but had it cancelled give them the upgrade and give those from values studios. Not 1/2 bedrooms or GV that's like a kick in the teeth.

I suspect the data pull to do that is a nightmare, and then having MS staff have the time to figure out the upgrades is similarly challenging given how slammed MS is.

Those kind of history records are not an easy database pull. Not ever.

 

[going/again]

Curious....when have they not been bound by legal reasons?

I have thought that was obvious it's what's causing the 50% problem

 

[Chuck S]

But, remember that DVC has always had the right to suspend banking and borrowing at will. There is nothing at all illegal about that. I think everyone is expecting them to do so when the contracts get close to expiring. And given that they were trying to be decent about salvaging points for those with cancelled reservations due to the virus that would normally have expired, I think limiting borrowing to 50% is a reasonable and 100% legal compromise. Some members points would inevitably be affected by these safety closings. DVC chose to try to mitigate high damage to some members by spreading it equally to all members and limit borrowing. You may not agree with it, but it is not illegal.

 

[Sandisw]

I have thought that was obvious it's what's causing the 50% problem

They are allowed to put that in play and the closing was legal. So, I am still confused of what you think they did that was not legally allowed?

 

[going/again]

But, remember that DVC has always had the right to suspend banking and borrowing at will. There is nothing at all illegal about that. I think everyone is expecting them to do so when the contracts get close to expiring. And given that they were trying to be decent about salvaging points for those with cancelled reservations due to the virus that would normally have expired, I think limiting borrowing to 50% is a reasonable and 100% legal compromise. Some members points would inevitably be affected by these safety closings. DVC chose to try to mitigate high damage to some members by spreading it equally to all members and limit borrowing. You may not agree with it, but it is not illegal.

I'm not referring to suspending banking and borrowing, ask yourself why the 50% has occurred DVC did a great job of looking after lots of members and I'm glad they did. But they have also affected lots of owners by doing this,. Why aren't they looking after both sides in this

 

[CarolMN]

I'm not referring to suspending banking and borrowing, ask yourself why the 50% has occurred DVC did a great job of looking after lots of members and I'm glad they did. But they have also affected lots of owners by doing this,. Why aren't they looking after both sides in this

Respectfully, what would you propose that doesn't involve spending Disney's money or giving up revenue that belongs to Disney? DVC Members are not entitled to a bailout from the Disney corporation. The help DVCMC provided didn't fix everything for those who couldn't take their booked vacations. And all of those members are also impacted by the borrowing restrictions. There are no "sides" to this.

IMO, spreading the pain of the closure over a larger set of Members than the smaller number who actually lost booked vacations/points due to the closures, was the right think to do. YMMV

I'm sorry if you are negatively impacted by the borrowing restriction. At least you won't lose points or an already booked vacation because of it. YMMV.

 

[New Mouse]

Respectfully, what would you propose that doesn't involve spending Disney's money or giving up revenue that belongs to Disney? DVC Members are not entitled to a bailout from the Disney corporation. The help DVCMC provided didn't fix everything for those who couldn't take their booked vacations. And all of those members are also impacted by the borrowing restrictions. There are no "sides" to this.

IMO, spreading the pain of the closure over a larger set of Members than the smaller number who actually lost booked vacations/points due to the closures, was the right think to do. YMMV

I'm sorry if you are negatively impacted by the borrowing restriction. At least you won't lose points or an already booked vacation because of it. YMMV.

You arent spreading the pain though. At the end of the day, the way the system is designed, basically the full amount of points from March through July will be lost and not useable.

That may be next year, it may be 10 years from now, or in year 49. That can come fron members or from Disney, but Math says it has to come from somewhere at some time.

Ultimately what DVC did was give members now a pass and pushed the buck onto someone unknowing down the line. Why should they be the ones to lose their points when they werent even in this mess?

Its obvious it will not be Disney losing anything seeing how they are sucking up resrervations for cash guests right now.

You shouldnt punish 75% of the memberdhip for 25% who hsd problems.

In my case and anyone paying attention, I am going to bank as much as possible as often as possible. As soon as I am forced to book though (2022 in thise case), my likelihood of losing my own points is now substantially higher. Thats not fair.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Why should they be the ones to lose their points when they werent even in this mess?

It's a pandemic. Everyone is "in this mess."

The idea of a condo association - which is what you have joined in buying a DVC share - is collective risk. Just because you didn't have April points doesn't mean you're not in the risk pool.

People who buy in later join the risk pool, and that risk pool takes on the collective past risk. This is no different than buying a "normal" condo - maybe the past risk is paying higher insurance due to past issues, maybe it's a special assessment in place, maybe it's a special assessment that happens 2 years from now because of 15 years of boiler neglect.

Condo associations are collective risk. By nature and by contract.

 

[New Mouse]

It's a pandemic. Everyone is "in this mess."

The idea of a condo association - which is what you have joined in buying a DVC share - is collective risk. Just because you didn't have April points doesn't mean you're not in the risk pool.

People who buy in later join the risk pool, and that risk pool takes on the collective past risk. This is no different than buying a "normal" condo - maybe the past risk is paying higher insurance due to past issues, maybe it's a special assessment in place, maybe it's a special assessment that happens 2 years from now because of 15 years of boiler neglect.

Condo associations are collective risk. By nature and by contract.

But whats happening by definition is not a collective risk. At the end of the day, everyone is not paying for it, the people who lose their points in time are. You are just reassigning that risk to a new group while throwing a life raft to the others (to save face).

An assessment paid by all would be spreading it out across all owners.

 

[Sandisw]

You arent spreading the pain though. At the end of the day, the way the system is designed, basically the full amount of points from March through July will be lost and not useable.

That may be next year, it may be 10 years from now, or in year 49. That can come fron members or from Disney, but Math says it has to come from somewhere at some time.

Ultimately what DVC did was give members now a pass and pushed the buck onto someone unknowing down the line. Why should they be the ones to lose their points when they werent even in this mess?

Its obvious it will not be Disney losing anything seeing how they are sucking up resrervations for cash guests right now.

You shouldnt punish 75% of the memberdhip for 25% who hsd problems.

In my case and anyone paying attention, I am going to bank as much as possible as often as possible. As soon as I am forced to book though (2022 in thise case), my likelihood of losing my own points is now substantially higher. Thats not fair.

Nothing is really fair in all of this and no easy fix to losing 25% of the rooms in one year.

But, with points based, you are not assigned to a specific time period so those who choose the closed time is more bad luck.

Had this been weeks based, then the pain would have been different. But, at this time, the pain gets felt with everyone since we are a system as a whole. And by everyone I mean the rules are the same...not everyone as in each individual owner because we all use our memberships differently.

DVCMC played within the rules as best they could to balance short term and long term demand, as well as support as many owners as possible,

 

[_auroraborealis_]

In most shared risk systems - like insurance - there will always be people who take a greater share of the cost, usually those who are most directly impacted. If you have people with high utilization on your health plan, everyone will have a higher premium, but those using the plan heavily also will pay in more in coinsurance or copay.

There is no real way to perfectly balance banked and borrowed points across all UY with impacts from the closures to date, the ongoing closures at VGC and AUL, the people under travel quarantine orders or at high risk to travel, people who are angry parks are closed or require advance booking, etc.

 

[DisBuckMan]

I look at it this way....at least the people who "weren't part of this" know the information before buying in. They're choosing to be a part of it...unlike those of us who were already owners.

Even still, we're all under the mercy of the condo association...which is true with all timeshares. And, quite frankly, I believe that Disney has been as accommodating as possible throughout all of this. And truth be told, I had my doubts.

 

[Dean Marino]

What we are doing - all personal choice.

As WDW becomes "confused" over what to do with DVC points? We are RENTING. Look, we HATE having to do this.... but it accomplishes two things....

1) As Owners, we can recover dues costs, that WDW is perfectly willing to steal.
2) Good luck renting Rack Rate Rooms, as the DVC Rental Glut expands into 2021. Many of us will RENT, at cost. Sometimes, a corporation gets the very worst thing.... exactly what they asked for.

So just us - given no options for 2019 banked to 2020 points (other than "transfer to RCI"), we are RENTING every DVC Point (good to 3-31-2021) that WDW intends to steal. We don't like it.... but we have no choice.

 

[sethschroeder]

Nothing is really fair in all of this and no easy fix to losing 25% of the rooms in one year.

You stick to the rules. /story

Brought this up back in March as well. The rules are there to equally protect everyone. If you traveled in the last month of your UY or with 2018 banked points that is on you. No different than a hurricane hitting and you unable to travel or possibly Disney being closed (was there in September when it was shutdown).

I mean someone posted today they think the customer service is terrible because after already getting a reservation in August before their UY expiration they now want to take advantage of an extended period to book later this fall.

In the end most people are selfish which is fine and again why the rules are written in black and white.

Who really got shafted is anyone with sleep around points from OKW/SSR who never want to stay there. That is the group who will be hit hardest by shortage of rooms and nothing available at 7 months.