Is it okay to put family first? (Response to royal family stuff)

[Searc]

Catherine and William should be glad Harry got the press off their backs about trouble in their own house.

 

[cabanafrau]

Also meant to add....

And this public perception could probably have been better managed and more smartly marketed/pitched to the British media if Harry had consulted with his grandmother on this. I mean, the woman has literally decades of experience now navigating through press & media minefields of various forms. Prince Harry, on the other hand, is just getting started and has sort of bumbled it all up at the moment.

He should do something like go work for an investment bank or venture capital firm or something like that. Something in private industry...the whole trademarking their "Sussex Royal" brand is...what's the right word...just not quite right. It feels like it's cheapening the crown in a way. Turning it into something you'd find at Walmart or in your local shopping mall.

And 1M a year on clothing? Good grief. From what I've read, Catherine regularly recycles outfits worn at previous events.

To be fair, I've seen articles that mention Meghan rewearing outfits, too -- along with the obligatory mentions of how she "restyled" it. When I do that I'm simply carrying a different purse or wearing different shoes that day.

It also bears remembering that Meghan has had a much shorter timeframe dressing to walk the Royal catwalk than Kate has, so Kate has had several years jump on building a Royal catwalk worthy wardrobe to re-wear/restyle. Meghan was just getting up to speed on that front.

 

[SaintsManiac]

To be fair, I've seen articles that mention Meghan wearing outfits, too -- along with the obligatory mentions of how she "restyled" it. When I do that I'm simply carrying a different purse or wearing different shoes that day.

It also bears remembering that Meghan has had a much shorter timeframe dressing to walk the Royal catwalk than Kate has, so Kate has had several years jump on building a Royal catwalk worthy wardrobe to re-wear/restyle. Meghan was just getting up to speed on that front.

Didn't Meghan shock everyone by wearing a dress twice?

 

[Hikergirl]

Didn't Meghan shock everyone by wearing a dress twice?

That’s a real Royal scandal!

 

[cabanafrau]

Didn't Meghan shock everyone by wearing a dress twice?

That could very well be. Then again every report about what public figures are wearing (or in some cases not wearing when posing nude) is filled with mentions of stunning, shocking, slaying in relation to fashion and/or physique.

I do know I've seen online reports about Meghan rewearing dresses, coats, whatever, with side by side pictures of the different ways she "styled" the looks. It's the same when it comes to Kate.

 

[nkereina]

The Queen knew and encouraged them to wait to make the announcement. I'm glad they defied her.

Why are you glad they defied her? Honestly asking, not snarking. I may be missing part of the story. From everything I know, unless there's something more nefarious I'm not aware of, the Queen and Charles found out "10 minutes" (what I read) before the announcement was made public. Even if his familial relations are strained, H+M can still move forward with their plan while giving the royals time to prepare for the announcement. I have to imagine he still wants family ties in some capacity, even if not for the benefits, and defying the Queen's request just makes it worse.

 

[HopperFan]

If I'm understanding correctly, they didn't inform Queenie of their plans and let the old bat hear about it through social media. If so, awesome!!!

And they get to keep the house and other things gifted to them!!! Excellent!!!

All reports that came out from "royal sources" say this has been in discussion and the Queen very specifically asked them to not go public. She pulled the four teams (her, Charles, William and Harry) so that they could come up with a plan for them that was within what they wanted to pursue but also fulfill some duty for his "perks". She was blindsighted when they directly went against that while in the middle of conversation.

They don't own the house so they should have no expectation to be able to stay there if not doing their job ... unless they rent/lease which also came out as a solution. Gifts, of course they should get to keep those.

Oprah encouraged them to leave and start their own brand.

My question.... their own brand of what?

They trademarked Sussex Royal with the plan to use for their brand. UK trademark office approved it but I'm sure with thought process to protect the royal sussex family from others doing so. Not sure they anticipated it would be used for commercializing the royal family apart from the nuclear family.

Direct from the Trademark file ....
- Printed Materials; long list including books, greeting cards, photographs, pen, pencils etc.
- Clothing; every kind you can think of, head, food, tops, pants, hats, sportswear etc.
- Campaigning; promotional, awareness, charity, volunteer, community, info, advisory, consulting, internet
- Charitable Fundraising; listing lots of ways
- Education; long description and covers just about any type of including conventions, sports, entertainment
- Social Care Services; support, counseling, mentoring, licensing of intellectual property, consulting, internet

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003408521
They clearly have been planning this exit for quite some time, maybe since before they even got married. They are smart and put into place trying to legally continue to use the royal name. Whether truly for philanthropic purposes or commercialization for their income .... hard to tell. But the optics aren't good and they really didn't handle this well, and I wouldn't mess with the Queen.

No one who has ever divorced an HRH has managed to keep that title, and the only previously divorced person ever to marry into the royal family who has been granted the right to use it is HRH the Duchess of Cornwall (Camilla.)

This particular title is normally only granted to the children & grandchildren of the sovereign, who can also decide to withhold it. Losing it would be a nasty blow to the Duke & Duchess of Sussex, given their ambitions in the area of charitable endeavours. That magical HRH is a proven money magnet when it comes to attracting large donations.

Losing the titles would kind of mess with their "brand" a bit. No Sussex, No Royal...how fitting.

AGREE. Given the history of keeping aka not keeping titles and the fact that it is already being discussed to remove their titles and the conversation this has been a long term thought process since they didn't give Archie a title but did give him a last name (not used by royals).

If they lose titles ... I wonder if there will be some conflict from the royals/crown in them keeping the trademark. It is certainly a huge negotiating tool for Queen.

Of course he made the right decision. The whole idea of a Royal family nowadays is all a farce and a bit old fashioned to me.

He had an interview where he basically said he doesn't want the same thing to happen to his wife as what happened to his mum. Why anybody even cares about their decision is incomprehensible for me.

I don't really think anyone cares what they do, and wouldn't say anything more than good for you if they left and were independent. But that is not what they are asking. They want to quit their jobs and do their own thing using the royal name commercially AND still keep their titles, their large paycheck and live in the estate they don't own. An estate that was renovated for them at great expense. The royals do produce lots of income for UK but they also cost them plenty.

Diana was the world's Princess, the interest in her was off the charts. How she was treated by royal family, particularly Charles fueled the interest and support of her. I understand his fears as he seems to carry great pain for what happened to his Mom ... but I really don't see the comparison at all between his mother and Meghan. Honestly I think that he is using this excuse as his exit door. He's never been happy being part of the royal process and I believe he was always trying to get out and he found a woman that would help him do that.

Is it really true that the queen has custody of any heirs? That is beyond screwed up if true. Get out Harry & Meghan while you can!!!!!!

If they still “work” in some capacity then they should get compensated. And who cares if they go off on their own and profit from their titles. He is a prince, he was born that way.

300 years ago there was a royal issue and the King was proclaimed custodian of royal grandchildren. I think it's a proclamation, a royal rule but would it hold up in court now? Probably not but who has even tried? The closest situation would have been when Charles and Diana divorced, where did the kids live? Was Diana kept close to keep control of them? And does it even count for Great Grandchildren. Honestly if the Queen is who people are trying to make her out to be ... why would she want to keep him? Perhaps if he truly had a chance at being King it would be tested but he's not baring a tragic accident to many.

What about Prince Andrew, though? Is it ok for him to keep any money he receives?

It has been stated he stepped back from PUBLIC duties and attendance other than military due to his rank and war veteran status. He will still be doing all his work behind the scenes with the 200 some charities under his watch as long as they continue working with him.

His paycheck comes from the Queen's private income so she can do as she pleases. His own public money would be for travel for public duties and he will no longer be doing that so taking no public money.

 

[Searc]

Why are you glad they defied her? Honestly asking, not snarking. I may be missing part of the story. From everything I know, unless there's something more nefarious I'm not aware of, the Queen and Charles found out "10 minutes" (what I read) before the announcement was made public. Even if his familial relations are strained, H+M can still move forward with their plan while giving the royals time to prepare for the announcement. I have to imagine he still wants family ties in some capacity, even if not for the benefits, and defying the Queen's request just makes it worse.

Because if she would have had her way, there never would have been an announcement, because that hints at ******* within her house and lord knows, she can't have THAT out in the public.

Now she is scrambling to twist their announcement for PR and will throw Harry under the bus to save face. It's how the monarchy works. Anyone who doesn't fall in line is cast out. Look at Princesses Margaret, Dianna and Fergie. There are others, but those three are the most well-known.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Why are you glad they defied her? Honestly asking, not snarking. I may be missing part of the story. From everything I know, unless there's something more nefarious I'm not aware of, the Queen and Charles found out "10 minutes" (what I read) before the announcement was made public. Even if his familial relations are strained, H+M can still move forward with their plan while giving the royals time to prepare for the announcement. I have to imagine he still wants family ties in some capacity, even if not for the benefits, and defying the Queen's request just makes it worse.

I believe the announcement would have never been made had they not defied her. This would have gone on for God knows how long. They had to make the first move. I read this had been discussed with the queen for a while now but she wanted to wait to announce it. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands.

 

[nkereina]

there never would have been an announcement,

I believe the announcement would have never been made had they not defied her.

Is a formal announcement required for Meghan & Harry to do what they are wanting to do? Again, genuine question, not trying to sound snarky.

My thought is just that if they want to live a simpler life away from the chaos, why make an announcement at all - particularly if the Queen doesn't want an announcement either. With the way things went down, they have invited even more attention and scrutiny. Almost seems like its backfiring on them.

 

[cabanafrau]

The Queen knew and encouraged them to wait to make the announcement. I'm glad they defied her.

I suspect they cut off their own noses and made things much more difficult by putting out the announcement when they did. I think they stood a better chance of coming up with a more workable arrangement by working with the Queen/Charles. No one benefits from a press firestorm.

Supposedly on a family level they love Harry/Meghan/Archie and vice versa. Doing this in this way stands a really good chance of weakening the monarchy, theoretically putting at risk Harry's grandmother(not really except for stress), his dad and his brother. Why was it so urgent to make the announcement immediately? Why the trademarking? Do they perhaps have reason to believe they needed to get while the getting was good before the monarchy announced a going out of business sale?

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if they've seen too many rude and racist statements directed at Meghan and Archie and are hoping to put a stop to it before he's old enough to hear it. I'm not sure they've really thought out that the way they go about this will seriously affect how successful they ultimately are -- or given much thought to the impact on the families, both the royal one and Meghan's mom.

 

[Searc]

Is a formal announcement required for Meghan & Harry to do what they are wanting to do? Again, genuine question, not trying to sound snarky.

My thought is just that if they want to live a simpler life away from the chaos, why make an announcement at all - particularly if the Queen doesn't want an announcement either. With the way things went down, they have invited even more attention and scrutiny. Almost seems like its backfiring on them.

If they wouldn't have pre-empted her and made their own announcement, nothing would have been done and things would have stayed the same. The Queen would have dragged it out as long as possible, probably until Philip died, when other major changes would have to be made.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

Is a formal announcement required for Meghan & Harry to do what they are wanting to do? Again, genuine question, not trying to sound snarky.

My thought is just that if they want to live a simpler life away from the chaos, why make an announcement at all - particularly if the Queen doesn't want an announcement either. With the way things went down, they have invited even more attention and scrutiny. Almost seems like its backfiring on them.

I believe a formal announcement was required. Had they just backed off the press would've hounded them for that.

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I don't envy them at all.

 

[Turn the Page]

I wonder about the argument several are making that Harry never felt comfortable in the royal life and Meghan was his ticket out. Did he really need a ticket out? I mean really, he could have broken free on his own before he ever met her. It likely would have been a lot easier to break free as a single man rather than with a wife and child in tow.

 

[luvsJack]

Absolutely ! Treating his grannie and the queen in such a disrespectful manner all while claiming to want to be financially independent ( while still wanted 2.3 million a year from Charles and the house ) is insane .. shame on them .She wanted to be Diana 2.0 and it didn’t happen .. cue tantrum

Is that really fair though? If the royal family treated Catherine like they have reportedly treated Megan, do you not think William would not want to get her out of there too? They were plenty old enough to remember what that treatment did to their mother! There has to be some, probably hidden, resentment of how their mother was treated by their father and the queen.

And why on earth would she want to be Diana 2.0? Yes the people of England and all over the world loved Diana but she was so unhappy in her life. She was treated like a pawn in whatever this game was that Charles was playing. Who would want that?

And regardless, he is the son of the future King and Princess Diana. He is the grandson of the Queen. If being born into that family requires you to put up with certain treatment by the family, the paparazzi and the people; shouldn't it also give you some of the benefits too? The house was a wedding present from the Queen. Of course they should be able to keep it. Charles is his father and Charles's first responsibility should be to BOTH of his sons and that money is a small part of that.

 

[scrump]

I feel like most people are ok with H&M leaving. I feel most people have issue with their definition of "financial independence" - which for most of us, do not include receiving an annual multi-million dollar allowance from dad.

There's an added level of nuance here because in an age where we have a heightened sensitivity to egalitarianism, the House of Windsor more than stands out as possibly a little outdated and anachronistic - and btw the same could be said for any of these royal/imperial families (Sweden, Japan, etc). I don't doubt that H&M have been through some difficult times, but when they complain about their lives so publicly while helping the poor in Africa as their backdrop, it takes away from any good work they are doing. It's clownish and beyond tone-deaf; they live a life of unsurpassable privilege through no work of their own. If they feel that they've given more than their pound of flesh for the job and they're unhappy, it's not working for them, they should move on... but do it the right way. Sometimes life is as simple as you make it. They should step away, give up their titles and enter private civilian life - to the extent that is possible. A clean break would be admirable, respectable and a true way to reclaim your independence. What they are trying to set up is complicated, wishy-washy and something my 11 year old would come up with. He would love to stay home from school and play roblox all day. And not do homework? Great! Chores? Ok, ok, he'll do at least a little bit once in a while. And sure, in exchange for his "independence" he would be ok with us subtracting 5% of his allowance, but hey, he would say "you're still going to cover everything else, right? You're not going to like expect me to actually be on my own?" Is there a parent out there who did not roll their eyes at the H&M statement?

I think they would also make a lot more money without leaning on the "royal" thing, too.

 

[Hikergirl]

I wonder about the argument several are making that Harry never felt comfortable in the royal life and Meghan was his ticket out. Did he really need a ticket out? I mean really, he could have broken free on his own before he ever met her. It likely would have been a lot easier to break free as a single man rather than with a wife and child in tow.

Maybe having his own family made him realize that now was the right time.

 

[Hikergirl]

I feel like most people are ok with H&M leaving. I feel most people have issue with their definition of "financial independence" - which for most of us, do not include receiving an annual multi-million dollar allowance from dad.

There's an added level of nuance here because in an age where we have a heightened sensitivity to egalitarianism, the House of Windsor more than stands out as possibly a little outdated and anachronistic - and btw the same could be said for any of these royal/imperial families (Sweden, Japan, etc). I don't doubt that H&M have been through some difficult times, but when they complain about their lives so publicly while helping the poor in Africa as their backdrop, it takes away from any good work they are doing. It's clownish and beyond tone-deaf; they live a life of unsurpassable privilege through no work of their own. If they feel that they've given more than their pound of flesh for the job and they're unhappy, it's not working for them, they should move on... but do it the right way. Sometimes life is as simple as you make it. They should step away, give up their titles and enter private civilian life - to the extent that is possible. A clean break would be admirable, respectable and a true way to reclaim your independence. What they are trying to set up is complicated, wishy-washy and something my 11 year old would come up with. He would love to stay home from school and play roblox all day. And not do homework? Great! Chores? Ok, ok, he'll do at least a little bit once in a while. And sure, in exchange for his "independence" he would be ok with us subtracting 5% of his allowance, but hey, he would say "you're still going to cover everything else, right? You're not going to like expect me to actually be on my own?" Is there a parent out there who did not roll their eyes at the H&M statement?

I think they would also make a lot more money without leaning on the "royal" thing, too.

Does the allowance come from tax payers or from an existing trust?
I read he has a trust from his mother and inheritance from his great grandmother.
If that is his money then what’s the issue?

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Oh, but the one that truly counts is Her Royal Highness, which has enormous legal and social significance. That title was a key issue in the fight over Wallis Simpson, and again in the divorce of the late Princess of Wales (and historically, also in the attempted divorce of the first Princess of Wales to go to court over the end of her marriage: Caroline of Brunswick, in 1820.) Sarah Ferguson also lost the HRH in her divorce.

No one who has ever divorced an HRH has managed to keep that title, and the only previously divorced person ever to marry into the royal family who has been granted the right to use it is HRH the Duchess of Cornwall (Camilla.)

This particular title is normally only granted to the children & grandchildren of the sovereign, who can also decide to withhold it. Losing it would be a nasty blow to the Duke & Duchess of Sussex, given their ambitions in the area of charitable endeavours. That magical HRH is a proven money magnet when it comes to attracting large donations.

I’m not sure the titles are as important as you and some others are implying. In the age of social media, casual observers (like myself) know them first and foremost by their faces and names — Harry and Meghan. I didn’t know/recall that they were Sussex-anything until reading this thread, nor do I have the foggiest clue what other titles they may hold. Funnily, you mention Her Royal Highness as the enormously important one, and I honestly couldn’t have told you if that was a legitimate title given to real human beings or just something six-year-old girls say while playing dress up.

If Harry and Meghan want to build a brand and capitalize on it, they have enough recognition to do so on their names and faces alone. If they were hoping to collect money from someone like me they’d be better off leaving the titles out of it altogether, because once you start throwing Duke of This, Earl of That, Royale with Cheese into the mix, I don’t even know who we’re talking about anymore.

 

[scrump]

Does the allowance come from tax payers or from an existing trust?
I read he has a trust from his mother and inheritance from his great grandmother.
If that is his money then what’s the issue?

My understanding was that the allowance is from Charles as compensation for Harry's work as a working royal (wardrobe, travel, etc), separate from the trust/inheritance - which I agree would be his money and would have no issue there.

But I defer to the experts on this.

Edited [again lol] to clarify: I have no issue with Harry keeping trust/inheritance money, but I think it would be best to decline money previously given to him in [originally earmarked as] compensation for his work in support of the Queen. that or a reduced amount would be reasonable. He will be making way more in the private sector. I think this would be much more of a symbolic gesture that would go a long way.