9-year-old charged with murder in 5 Illinois fire deaths

[TeresaBelle]

This story is fairly local to me, within an hour or so. Our local paper had more articles when it first happened. I'll try to link here, but in case it doesn't work, she says that her fiancé carried her outside unconscious after the furnace exploded and he ran back in to get the children. https://www.pjstar.com/news/2019042...goodfield-inferno-that-killed-five-loved-ones

Unrelated to the tragedy, but why was she going to take a bath WITH her niece at 11pm? Creepy.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This story is fairly local to me, within an hour or so. Our local paper had more articles when it first happened. I'll try to link here, but in case it doesn't work, she says that her fiancé carried her outside unconscious after the furnace exploded and he ran back in to get the children. https://www.pjstar.com/news/2019042...goodfield-inferno-that-killed-five-loved-ones

Were there other articles out there at this time? A lot of the information in that article is simply never ever even hinted at in her most recent interview. I felt like it was 2 very completely different stories. Something still feels off to me IDK.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The same news outlet the PP posted has put out a new story today: https://www.pjstar.com/news/2019101...-helps-turn-goodfield-murder-case-into-circus

The only thing IMO this mom could have been thinking when she opted to put herself and everyone else close to her in the national spotlight was to hopefully garner sympathy with a potential lesser charge for her son. On a certain level I get that but yeah.

I was actually talking about this whole thing last Tuesday with my in-laws and my mother-in-law asked who is was and I was like "well he's a minor so they probably won't release much at this point"--well lo and behold the boy's own mother decides to identify him I must admit I was a bit put off by that even though I normally want more and more information I'm not sure we necessarily needed to know his full identity and pictures at the moment.

 

[ronandannette]

The same news outlet the PP posted has put out a new story today: https://www.pjstar.com/news/2019101...-helps-turn-goodfield-murder-case-into-circus

The only thing IMO this mom could have been thinking when she opted to put herself and everyone else close to her in the national spotlight was to hopefully garner sympathy with a potential lesser charge for her son. On a certain level I get that but yeah.

I was actually talking about this whole thing last Tuesday with my in-laws and my mother-in-law asked who is was and I was like "well he's a minor so they probably won't release much at this point"--well lo and behold the boy's own mother decides to identify him I must admit I was a bit put off by that even though I normally want more and more information I'm not sure we necessarily needed to know his full identity and pictures at the moment.

Not to mention that the picture of him in the OP is kind of, well, sinister-looking. If it’s one the mother herself provided to the press for the purpose of drawing sympathy, the choice was a poor one.

 

[Hikergirl]

His aunt, whose young daughter died in the fire, is on record as saying she wants him in prison.

I’m with the aunt. If this kid is capable of doing this at age 9 I can only imagine what he will be capable of doing as an older child and then adult.
Treat him but keep him locked up and away from everyone else.
You can’t cure him, you can only treat him and that isn’t enough to guarantee the public would be safe from him.

As for the mom, I can’t imagine what she’s going through but he’s all she has left so I can see her defending him.
I have no idea what I would do in her shoes, but I know what I’d do in the aunts.

 

[Imzadi]

. . . "well he's a minor so they probably won't release much at this point"--well lo and behold the boy's own mother decides to identify him I must admit I was a bit put off by that even though I normally want more and more information I'm not sure we necessarily needed to know his full identity and pictures at the moment.

To be fair, I think the majority of people, unless they watch cop or legal dramas, don't know the law in which the names of minors are usually withheld. SHE probably doesn't have a lawyer. Her son does. Since his name is normally withheld from the media, HIS lawyer may have simply told her, "Do not talk to the press or media," and thought that would be enough. And until he was charged with murder, it possibly hadn't really been a problem

It was actually in poor taste of the media to get her to release his name and dig up a photo of him when THEY full well know the law.

There is also, perhaps, when it was decided he is going to be charged with murder, the prosecutor decided to charge him as an adult? Does anyone know if that is the case? I *think* names can be released if a minor is charged with a crime as an adult. (I'm vaguely thinking of the times when I hear on the local news when a minor is charged as an adult. We get a lot of gang crimes, and I think they release some names. )

 

[tzolkin]

Were there other articles out there at this time? A lot of the information in that article is simply never ever even hinted at in her most recent interview. I felt like it was 2 very completely different stories. Something still feels off to me IDK.

I just read a Chicago Tribune article from a few days ago and the mother is quoted "My niece died in my arms. I can still hear them screaming." The other article says there was an explosion and she was unconscious. One mentions her children were found in their beds still sleeping (smoke inhalation), but she mentions talking to them through their windows. Definitely multiple different versions of the story so I don't think we can assume any specific part is accurate.

There has to be way more to it for this child to be charged with multiple counts of murder. There must be some evidence that this was very intentional and not an "accident" or messing around with fire.

Unrelated to the tragedy, but why was she going to take a bath WITH her niece at 11pm? Creepy.

I really don't see anything "creepy" about it. Plenty of people bathe with their babies/toddlers. That said, I don't know that I even think it's necessarily true since there have been so many conflicting versions of what happened.

 

[TeresaBelle]

I just read a Chicago Tribune article from a few days ago and the mother is quoted "My niece died in my arms. I can still hear them screaming." The other article says there was an explosion and she was unconscious. One mentions her children were found in their beds still sleeping (smoke inhalation), but she mentions talking to them through their windows. Definitely multiple different versions of the story so I don't think we can assume any specific part is accurate.

There has to be way more to it for this child to be charged with multiple counts of murder. There must be some evidence that this was very intentional and not an "accident" or messing around with fire.



I really don't see anything "creepy" about it. Plenty of people bathe with their babies/toddlers. That said, I don't know that I even think it's necessarily true since there have been so many conflicting versions of what happened.

Their babies/toddlers, yes. Not their sister's toddler! But you're right. It may not even be true.

 

[Imzadi]

Psychiatry is by far an exact science & a person can end up with several diagnoses throughout their lifetime. [. . .]

Conduct disorder is basically childhood Antisocial Personality D/O...think serial killer.

Many serial killers have also been diagnosed as schizophrenic.

Science is often quoted as unchanging fact, when in fact, science is actually fluid. Something is a "scientific fact" until some new research or technology comes along and changes that "fact" with new evidence. Evidence that was probably there all along, but wasn't detectable, without the new technology. Then the new evidence is the benchmark "scientific fact." For instance, Asperger's was considered separate, now it's included as part of autism. The planet Pluto was happily hanging out at the edge of the galaxy, until new scientific research demoted it. And now there are 2 or more planets actually, (always have been) out there at the edge of our galaxy.

It used to be "fact" that there were no female serial killers. Then Aileen Wuornos (and a couple other women, I think,) were found.

Serial killers were never black either. Then several years ago, they found one or two. Now, the FBI has that nutcase, Samuel Little, they've been interviewing, and it appears, he has confessed and may really have killed 93 people from 1970-2005 - during all the years there was supposedly no black serial killers.

Ladies and gentleman: We have your first 9 yr old, schizophrenic murderer.


However, as you said, and this is probably the case:

​

Yeah & that’s a lot of diagnoses which tells me they are unsure what’s going on. . .​

​

 

[Imzadi]

There has to be way more to it for this child to be charged with multiple counts of murder. There must be some evidence that this was very intentional and not an "accident" or messing around with fire.

According to the news article linked to in the OP:

[Woodford County State’s Attorney Greg] Minger said he scoured multiple reports on the fire before proceeding with prosecution. Woodford County Coroner Tim Ruestman said the fire was started intentionally.​

And a PP said it was reported that was involved with this family 13 times before, and there may have been issues with this child with lighters and fire before.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

To be fair, I think the majority of people, unless they watch cop or legal dramas, don't know the law in which the names of minors are usually withheld. SHE probably doesn't have a lawyer. Her son does. Since his name is normally withheld from the media, HIS lawyer may have simply told her, "Do not talk to the press or media," and thought that would be enough. And until he was charged with murder, it possibly hadn't really been a problem

It was actually in poor taste of the media to get her to release his name and dig up a photo of him when THEY full well know the law.

There is also, perhaps, once he was charged with murder, the D.A. charged him as an adult? Does anyone know if that is the case? I *think* names can be released if a minor is charged with a crime as an adult. (I'm vaguely thinking of the times when I hear on the local news when a minor is charged as an adult. We get a lot of gang crimes, and I think they release some names. )

You're right that it may not be known that in general you don't release names if minors. I know there are exceptions but I don't quite know what they are so I'm part of that lack of full knowledge front too lol.

I'm not so harsh on the media on this one (and normally I can be). She declined commentary from what appears to be a local newspaper when the charges were officially filed but then goes on national media with an interview. IF she didn't want it all to be blasted out there because it would have been poor taste then she shouldn't have gone the national media route. She declined comment for a small scale local media route but does a tell all for the nation? Just doesn't sit right with me because of the sequence of events. I can't really find information that CBS intiated an interview or that anyone else really approached her.

As for the picture I can't for sure say who initiated photo but it seems a bit more likely in my mind with how things are unfolding that she perhaps gave them the photo to present a different side to them but like a PP mentioned it's not exactly a 'good' photo to use for that. Maybe it's one of the only photos she has who knows.

At least in google it's April 2019 local articles with nothing really national and then boom it's all over a few days ago and it's because she went on and did the interview. In the article it said the judge "emphasized probation, therapy and counseling would be the most likely result of a guilty verdict." Given those circumstances I don't see much reason if that was the more likely route to bring it to national news. Is it that she just wants no charges period? Does she not think her son needs mental aid? I get it if she's concerned that wouldn't be the end result but not sure going the national route is the appropriate way either.

And a gag order has now been placed (though it's not known which 'side' ordered it) because the whole family is just talking now. I think in general the local media and the judge tried to keep it fairly low key. The family is the one that put them in the spotlight.

 

[tzolkin]

According to the news article linked to in the OP:

[Woodford County State’s Attorney Greg] Minger said he scoured multiple reports on the fire before proceeding with prosecution. Woodford County Coroner Tim Ruestman said the fire was started intentionally.​

Yes, I meant that there has to be more to the story than just that for this to be murder. There's a difference between setting fire to something "intentionally" and intending for that fire to result in someone's death.

I know plenty of people who purposely set fire to things as kids but had no intention of anyone being injured. Had their actions resulted in a tragedy, I don't think they would have been charged with first degree murder.

 

[Imzadi]

One mentions her children were found in their beds still sleeping (smoke inhalation), but she mentions talking to them through their windows. Definitely multiple different versions of the story so I don't think we can assume any specific part is accurate.

The children were a 1-year-old, two 2-year-olds. It's unlikely they'd know to get out of bed and run away from a fire. And if they heard the woman at their windows, which I'm assuming is next to the beds, they'd have stayed there, until the smoke asphyxiation set in. Hopefully, they'd have died that way instead of being burned to death. Which could be why she said they went silent.

 

[MrsDuck]

Absolutely horrific. I don't know what to think.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I just read a Chicago Tribune article from a few days ago and the mother is quoted "My niece died in my arms. I can still hear them screaming." The other article says there was an explosion and she was unconscious. One mentions her children were found in their beds still sleeping (smoke inhalation), but she mentions talking to them through their windows. Definitely multiple different versions of the story so I don't think we can assume any specific part is accurate.

There has to be way more to it for this child to be charged with multiple counts of murder. There must be some evidence that this was very intentional and not an "accident" or messing around with fire.

Yes, I meant that there has to be more to the story than just that for this to be murder. There's a difference between setting fire to something "intentionally" and intending for that fire to result in someone's death.

I know plenty of people who purposely set fire to things as kids but had no intention of anyone being injured. Had their actions resulted in a tragedy, I don't think they would have been charged with first degree murder.

That's why I was looking for what the mom meant by mistake. I was thinking a possible reason was intentional fire but not intentional deaths maybe? IDK we're getting the info from the mom so I'm sure it's bit hard to know. But yes charging with murder speaks to what the intent is thought to have been or other mitigating factors. It does mention in the article I linked the local news speculated that the "number of deaths and the possibility of recidivism must have been too much to ignore."

In all honesty I didn't know what recidivism meant so I looked it up. It means, for anyone else who doesn't know, "a tendency to relapse into a previous condition or mode of behavior especially : relapse into criminal behavior". I can understand that thoughtprocess given the child's age. With nothing, nadda, nil done he could potentially have a long life of chances for further issues/incidents if absolutely nothing was done.

For the talking to them through the windows that could be her just talking out loud to them and not actually physically talking to them.

However, I do agree details are not all the same in the stories being told. It's possible her memory is off or that something else is going on.

 

[Colleen27]

Wow, I can't imagine there's any good way to handle a situation like this. The mother does seem sort of off, but who wouldn't be? She just lost two of her children, her mother and her fiancee, and likely just wants to hold on to the one child she has left.

But I imagine the intent must be pretty damned clear for authorities to take the extreme step of charging a child that age. From the photos of the home, it looks like the boy might have set the fire to intentionally trap the sleeping family members. The pictures show the most extensive damage is concentrated around the doors, one of which looks like it had a handicapped ramp, and in the front room, while the far end looks like it was largely spared. The video said the victims were asleep and that the mother was in the home; if the kid set the fire between where he knew his mother was - still awake, and therefore probably not in the same room as her sleeping toddlers or fiancee - and the bedrooms, it wouldn't be unlikely that she'd be unable to get to them in time. Trailers go up fast, and the kids were too young to get out a window on their own.

 

[LSUmiss]

Wow, I can't imagine there's any good way to handle a situation like this. The mother does seem sort of off, but who wouldn't be? She just lost two of her children, her mother and her fiancee, and likely just wants to hold on to the one child she has left.

But I imagine the intent must be pretty damned clear for authorities to take the extreme step of charging a child that age. From the photos of the home, it looks like the boy might have set the fire to intentionally trap the sleeping family members. The pictures show the most extensive damage is concentrated around the doors, one of which looks like it had a handicapped ramp, and in the front room, while the far end looks like it was largely spared. The video said the victims were asleep and that the mother was in the home; if the kid set the fire between where he knew his mother was - still awake, and therefore probably not in the same room as her sleeping toddlers or fiancee - and the bedrooms, it wouldn't be unlikely that she'd be unable to get to them in time. Trailers go up fast, and the kids were too young to get out a window on their own.

And if he’s able to be that calculated & plotting esp at this young of an age then he was not psychotic at the time regardless of if it he actually has schizophrenia.

 

[luvsJack]

Wow, I can't imagine there's any good way to handle a situation like this. The mother does seem sort of off, but who wouldn't be? She just lost two of her children, her mother and her fiancee, and likely just wants to hold on to the one child she has left.

But I imagine the intent must be pretty damned clear for authorities to take the extreme step of charging a child that age. From the photos of the home, it looks like the boy might have set the fire to intentionally trap the sleeping family members. The pictures show the most extensive damage is concentrated around the doors, one of which looks like it had a handicapped ramp, and in the front room, while the far end looks like it was largely spared. The video said the victims were asleep and that the mother was in the home; if the kid set the fire between where he knew his mother was - still awake, and therefore probably not in the same room as her sleeping toddlers or fiancee - and the bedrooms, it wouldn't be unlikely that she'd be unable to get to them in time. Trailers go up fast, and the kids were too young to get out a window on their own.

According to one of the mother’s versions, it was started in or around the furnace. Which in most trailers is going to be most likely close to the bedrooms.

She also said in that same version that her fiancée got her out and was trying to get the children out.
So he wouldn’t have been asleep but caught, unable to get out. The niece should have been close to the mother since she said she was going to take a bath with the niece.

I can’t imagine what she has gone through but I can’t help but question her changing stories.

 

[Colleen27]

We had a young man in his early twenties working at our company. Unbeknownst to anyone, he was on medication for mental illness. One of the side effects of the medication was weight gain. He thought the weight was the reason he didn’t have a girlfriend, and thought he was doing so well that he could go off his medication long enough to lose some weight. He didn’t tell anyone he was doing so. His mom worked in my department, and didn’t know he wasn’t on his meds until he didn’t show up for work one day and she went out looking for him. Fortunately he didn’t harm himself or anyone else, but the the next two years that I worked with his mom, they never did get his meds regulated properly for him to function the way he had been. We all felt so sad about it, and I often wonder how it turned out for him and his family.

I had a good friend when I was younger who had multiple mental health diagnoses. He was a sweet guy, both on and off his meds, but he was also a danger to himself and others (mostly himself, but his driving when he was manic was a menace) when his illness took control... but the same meds that kept the delusions at bay rendered him completely impotent. So he'd have stretches where he was doing well, maybe started dating someone, and would decide to go off his meds so he could function like any 20-something guy wants to function. Which would inevitably lead to disaster, at which point he'd end up back on his meds, usually by court order. Last I heard from him, he was off his meds and headed on a cross-country road trip. That was years and years ago, and I've often wondered if he's okay and where he ended up.

Yeah & that’s a lot of diagnoses which tells me they are unsure what’s going on or he got multiple diagnoses from multiple provides. I will say I often see kids with behavioral issues end up with a laundry list of diagnoses. Diagnoses are often based on the self-report of the parent and/or child. Sometimes that’s a very unreliable source especially when there are also behavioral issues.

And sadly, the kind of professionals a lot of low-income families have access to aren't following best practices. One of my bonus sons has a laundry list of diagnoses and a history with medications that no reputable provider would give to a child, going back to when he was 8 years old. But his mom just kept taking him to different doctors and seeking/demanding a diagnosis and medication to help her manage him. He's 19 now, still seeing a counselor but not on any meds, and doing well, so I think there's plenty of reason to question the judgment of doctors who had him on mood stabilizers as a child.

To be fair, I think the majority of people, unless they watch cop or legal dramas, don't know the law in which the names of minors are usually withheld. SHE probably doesn't have a lawyer. Her son does. Since his name is normally withheld from the media, HIS lawyer may have simply told her, "Do not talk to the press or media," and thought that would be enough. And until he was charged with murder, it possibly hadn't really been a problem

It was actually in poor taste of the media to get her to release his name and dig up a photo of him when THEY full well know the law.

With a story like this one, the name was already out there in the initial stories in which he was just another person who was present at the time of the fire. So there'd be little sense in withholding his name now that the decision has been made to file charges. The police probably still won't use it publicly, but the media isn't likely to pretend (nor would the audience believe) that it was a *different* 9yo being charged.

 

[Drasticq]

Diagnosing a psychiatric disorder can be tricky at best, more so in a young child. It has not been known for people suffering from mood disorders or Bipolar Disorder to act out in ways healthy people find hard to fathom.