This doesn’t sound good (EMH going away?)

[ChipnDale79]

Or anyone can just decide not to go. If you think you’re getting screwed — or even if you don’t think it’s value — anyone can choose to take it out of their life.

Yup..but they just have to be quiet about why they aren't going anymore in order for people to stop attacking them on here.

 

[billlaurie]

Or anyone can just decide not to go. If you think you’re getting screwed — or even if you don’t think it’s value — anyone can choose to take it out of their life.



Where else in the world are you able to think that? That’s literally the case with almost everything in the service/entertainment industry, that things used to be cheaper and you used to get more while paying less. Movies cost 12 bucks, a large percentage of great TV comes from pay services. It’s a normal progression in almost everything in the world; I don’t know why WDW should be exempt.

You are absolutely correct that Disney will, can and should increase prices like every other business and thank you for stating your case in a non-insulting way. It is the number of increases, nickel and diming, in combination with reducing perks that have been standard practice for most of us, that make us unhappy and which we are complaining about. In the future the "complainers" might stay in the bubble, not come at all, or like me, spend my 24 nights (6 nights x 4 rooms) off site, no dining plan, no money spent in the resorts, etc. Disney can do whatever they want and I will answer with my wallet. I still have the right to complain and those complaints are valid.

 

[whiporee]

Yup..but they just have to be quiet about why they aren't going anymore in order for people to stop attacking them on here.

But to be fair, if they’ve decided to stop going, would there be any other reason to complain here besides make those who have made different decisions feel bad or stupid? I’ve never argued against the right to complain or question — and have done some myself — but i wonder what the motivation would be for someone who has decided to stop visiting the place to come to a Disney forum and complain about it.

As it’s been pointed out, people spend a lot of time and money on these vacations, and some people — not pointing at anyone — come here with the intent of making them regret their choice. Any cut or change WDW makes is portrayed as the end of the world promulgated by a mean-spirited corporate overlord, and no explanation or attempt at justification is acceptable.

 

[ChipnDale79]

But to be fair, if they’ve decided to stop going, would there be any other reason to complain here besides make those who have made different decisions feel bad or stupid? I’ve never argued against the right to complain or question — and have done some myself — but i wonder what the motivation would be for someone who has decided to stop visiting the place to be complaining about it.

Like I said in an earlier post, what makes this place unique is that we all, or most of us, love Disney, that’s why we come to this forum. When we see something that Disney does that we don’t like, odds are this is the first place we’re going to come to talk about it. Sure I talk about it with my wife, but I don’t “talk Disney” very much to anyone else, I come here.


I think if you visited a forum on National Parks, and they made a change to some sort of policy, you’d see people there complaining about it, even if they had stopped going because of those policies.


Just my 2 cents. I am a little tired of people being called entitled, or that they are whining because they dare have a different opinion than others. Some people don’t have a problem forking out more and more cash every single year, and that’s ok. I have a problem with how apparently its not ok to have a problem with massive price increases and changes.

 

[whiporee]

Like I said in an earlier post, what makes this place unique is that we all, or most of us, love Disney, that’s why we come to this forum. When we see something that Disney does that we don’t like, odds are this is the first place we’re going to come to talk about it. Sure I talk about it with my wife, but I don’t “talk Disney” very much to anyone else, I come here.


I think if you visited a forum on National Parks, and they made a change to some sort of policy, you’d see people there complaining about it, even if they had stopped going because of those policies.


Just my 2 cents. I am a little tired of people being called entitled, or that they are whining because they dare have a different opinion than others. Some people don’t have a problem forking out more and more cash every single year, and that’s ok. I have a problem with how apparently its not ok to have a problem with massive price increases and changes.

and I have a problem with people having a problem with me not having a problem with (or trying to justify) them. That’s what makes discourse fun.

 

[billlaurie]

and I have a problem with people having a problem with me not having a problem with (or trying to justify) them. That’s what makes discourse fun.

And it is fun as long as we are respectful and don't resort to name calling. Otherwise, it feels like engaging in dialog with my ex-husband

 

[LSUmiss]

But to be fair, if they’ve decided to stop going, would there be any other reason to complain here besides make those who have made different decisions feel bad or stupid? I’ve never argued against the right to complain or question — and have done some myself — but i wonder what the motivation would be for someone who has decided to stop visiting the place to come to a Disney forum and complain about it.

As it’s been pointed out, people spend a lot of time and money on these vacations, and some people — not pointing at anyone — come here with the intent of making them regret their choice. Any cut or change WDW makes is portrayed as the end of the world promulgated by a mean-spirited corporate overlord, and no explanation or attempt at justification is acceptable.

And I think what rubs some of us the wrong way is the insinuation that these changes are the fault of those of us who choose to indulge in some of the paid extras that have allegedly contributed to the perks being taken away. That implication makes it sound as if you (collective) or owed a certain experience AND that ppl who choose to do the extras don’t have a right to do so.

 

[VAtink]

Not sure if we paid, but I do remember taking a bus from MCO to Disney CBR in 1994

Back in the mid-90s they used the regular old Mears buses, booked through Disney as part of the package. Pretty sure it was an extra cost though. Also remember we used to book our Delta flights through Disney back then too. Times have changed!

 

[Doug M]

But it’s only taking away a perk if you already booked. We are only entitled to perks in place at the time of booking. But, for some, as has been stated, more morning hours is an added perk that they didn’t have before. Disney probably knows this. So for every guest who is upset about this change, there are probably just as many, if not more, who don’t care, don’t know or prefer the morning change.

As far as Disney “doing wrong”. This is not a moral issue. If at anytime I become dissatisfied with the product, I will stop going. That is what everyone should do.

ETA: Off topic, but an example that I do sometimes think what Disney does sucks. I feel for all those ppl who got stuck with SWGE opening unexpectedly. Some are happy, but many have expressed they specifically chose that time b/c Disney specifically said that it wouldn’t be open til Fall. I think those ppl got screwed (although some are happy) out of the type of trip they booked.

This is what I don't understand about your position on this matter. Sure a perk only exists if it was stated as a perk when you book, but the issue people are objecting to is the continued degrading of perks and value as they transition to more paid events and hours vs them being included in resort stays, and perhaps fastpasses too.

Mybe you don't mind spending more for things that used to cost less or were free because you are able and maybe many less can than did before and you are ok with all of that, but eventually they may price you out or make it so outrageous that you can only go once in a while.

Whst many are saying is this is alienating them and Disney may need their loyal customers at some point and they may find they have gone too far by the time they meed them.

 

[ChipnDale79]

And I think what rubs some of us the wrong way is the insinuation that these changes are the fault of those of us who choose to indulge in some of the paid extras that have allegedly contributed to the perks being taken away. That implication makes it sound as if you (collective) or owed a certain experience AND that ppl who choose to do the extras don’t have a right to do so.

I don't want to argue with you, but simple supply and demand are why people get annoyed with that.

As long as people continue to pay for the extras, they're going to stay. It honestly does nothing but continue to increase the prices more and more.

I'm not mad at you, I'm just pointing out why it may frustrate some people.

 

[LSUmiss]

Like I said in an earlier post, what makes this place unique is that we all, or most of us, love Disney, that’s why we come to this forum. When we see something that Disney does that we don’t like, odds are this is the first place we’re going to come to talk about it. Sure I talk about it with my wife, but I don’t “talk Disney” very much to anyone else, I come here.


I think if you visited a forum on National Parks, and they made a change to some sort of policy, you’d see people there complaining about it, even if they had stopped going because of those policies.


Just my 2 cents. I am a little tired of people being called entitled, or that they are whining because they dare have a different opinion than others. Some people don’t have a problem forking out more and more cash every single year, and that’s ok. I have a problem with how apparently its not ok to have a problem with massive price increases and changes.

It’s not that you don’t have the right to be upset & no one is suggesting you shouldn’t be. But, the bolded is inflammatory & passive aggressive & ppl keep saying things like this & get upset when ppl respond negatively to it. It implies that those of us who choose to indulge in the extras are naive or incapable of sound decisions.

 

[Doug M]

And I think what rubs some of us the wrong way is the insinuation that these changes are the fault of those of us who choose to indulge in some of the paid extras that have allegedly contributed to the perks being taken away. That implication makes it sound as if you (collective) or owed a certain experience AND that ppl who choose to do the extras don’t have a right to do so.

If those take away from the majority we have a right to object to it. When paid events reduce park hours yes it affects me. Desert parties and VIP tours have no impact on me. What resort category you select has no impact on me. If you pay out of pocket for meals or buy dining plan has no impact on me. It is only the stuff that they sell that was once included in my ticket that I have problems with, and because people can't stop throwing money at Disney that compels them to do it more that makes it an issue.

ETA: Also a big issue here is choice. I have no choice when they add a paid event that reduces nornal hours, whether it's one of the ever increasing number of holiday parties or the slow replacement of EMH in favor of the paid versions. Onsite already pays for those perks, and they are being devauled. If these extra events were not replacing something nobody would have issue with them, but hours are definitely less than they were so Disney can double dip gate for a day, or just reduce the value of a normal ticket.

 

[ChipnDale79]

It’s not that you don’t have the right to be upset & no one is suggesting you shouldn’t be. But, the bolded is inflammatory & passive aggressive & ppl keep saying things like this & get upset when ppl respond negatively to it. It implies that those of us who choose to indulge in the extras are naive or incapable of sound decisions.

OH geez. I'm sorry if you took it that way, but it was an expression that some people have no problem paying more and more every year. I'm not sure how that's passive aggressive or inflammatory. Certainly no more than calling people whiny and entitled.

 

[LSUmiss]

I don't want to argue with you, but simple supply and demand are why people get annoyed with that.

As long as people continue to pay for the extras, they're going to stay. It honestly does nothing but continue to increase the prices more and more.

I'm not mad at you, I'm just pointing out why it may frustrate some people.

No I understand why, but that can be said for pretty much everything. That’s how capitalism works. I don’t love that it works that way either (for more important commodities). I don’t care to buy DVC & personally don’t see the value. But, I don’t begrudge anyone else wanting to do it even if it means less new regular hotels being built.

 

[LSUmiss]

This is what I don't understand about your position on this matter. Sure a perk only exists if it was stated as a perk when you book, but the issue people are objecting to is the continued degrading of perks and value as they transition to more paid events and hours vs them being included in resort stays, and perhaps fastpasses too.

Mybe you don't mind spending more for things that used to cost less or were free because you are able and maybe many less can than did before and you are ok with all of that, but eventually they may price you out or make it so outrageous that you can only go once in a while.

Whst many are saying is this is alienating them and Disney may need their loyal customers at some point and they may find they have gone too far by the time they meed them.

I do know it’s a gamble. But likea pp stated that’s just how things work with most entertainment. But, right now we are able to still roll with the punches & still enjoy our overall experience. We also aware that we may have to downgrade our experience like room type or length of stay one day. But, we are hoping that paid experiences may make our trade-offs worth it. For instance, we can do a shorter stay b/c we can get more done with paid experiences that mitigate the crowds more efficiently than the old system. Overall, we may pay about the same or even less considering the resort costs we usually incur.

 

[DebbieB]

Not sure if we paid, but I do remember taking a bus from MCO to Disney CBR in 1994

Might have been a different service. DME started in 2005.

My first trip was in 1994 and we took a Mears van. Had to buy a ticket, I think there was a booth outside.

 

[luvsJack]

Or anyone can just decide not to go. If you think you’re getting screwed — or even if you don’t think it’s value — anyone can choose to take it out of their life.



Where else in the world are you able to think that? That’s literally the case with almost everything in the service/entertainment industry, that things used to be cheaper and you used to get more while paying less. Movies cost 12 bucks, a large percentage of great TV comes from pay services. It’s a normal progression in almost everything in the world; I don’t know why WDW should be exempt.

When I pay $12 to go to a movie, I get the same movie that I got years ago for less than $10. Yes, the price went up but the value didn't go down. Is it worth $12, well that is up to the consumer but they are still offering the exact same service. Disney is not. There is a difference in increasing the price for equal service and increasing the price for less service.

 

[luvsJack]

But it’s only taking away a perk if you already booked. We are only entitled to perks in place at the time of booking. But, for some, as has been stated, more morning hours is an added perk that they didn’t have before. Disney probably knows this. So for every guest who is upset about this change, there are probably just as many, if not more, who don’t care, don’t know or prefer the morning change.

As far as Disney “doing wrong”. This is not a moral issue. If at anytime I become dissatisfied with the product, I will stop going. That is what everyone should do.

ETA: Off topic, but an example that I do sometimes think what Disney does sucks. I feel for all those ppl who got stuck with SWGE opening unexpectedly. Some are happy, but many have expressed they specifically chose that time b/c Disney specifically said that it wouldn’t be open til Fall. I think those ppl got screwed (although some are happy) out of the type of trip they booked.

It is for returning guests. I can remember going at Thanksgiving and there being a morning EMH in one park every day and there being a night EMH in one park every day. How long has it been since they had that? And it doesn't matter how many people will be happy with more morning hours, it is still the losing of a perk that used to be and trading it for something that has to be paid for.

 

[dlavender]

Where else in the world are you able to think that? That’s literally the case with almost everything in the service/entertainment industry, that things used to be cheaper and you used to get more while paying less. Movies cost 12 bucks, a large percentage of great TV comes from pay services. It’s a normal progression in almost everything in the world; I don’t know why WDW should be exempt.

I try as best I can to be a "good consumer"...

If a restaurant I frequent starts upping menu pricing but starts reducing portions, reducing quality, I don't just keep paying more and saying "well, that's the world we live in".... I complain, let them know how I feel, and then find a new spot. WDW isn't exactly the same as a restaurant as there are 1000's of restaurants, so its a little easier to walk away from those. But I have drastically reduced my WDW visits and most likely will be going to Uni/other parks more often in its place. But again, I like many, have an attachment to the place. Sometimes all I can do is complain randomly online, explain why I think what they are doing is a bad move, etc. I can't imagine not ever going again, but we are probably down to 3 days per year, and perhaps down to 1 or every other year in the future. So I'm not here telling anyone to not go, or to not like what I don't like, more so just as a weird cathartic exercise.

 

[cmwade77]

Ah, i remember when EMH was offered either in the morning or evening at one park virtually every single day of the year, I miss those days.