Idea to improve DAS

[OurBigTrip]

I agree that they can't keep this broken DAS system around. Although I don't think it is broken due to guests having a hard time with a new routine. But rather because it is forcing some guests to wait longer than those in standby lines. And forcing disabled people to travel around more to ride an attraction. I hope that Disney will work to fix this broken system. Surely, they are noting the flaws and working toward fixing it. I believe them when they say they want all guests to have an equal opportunity to enjoy their parks. I hope they don't continue too long subjecting the disabled to inequality just to appease those who think that different access is better than what they are getting.

The DAS isn't nearly as broken as the GAC was.

And whether you want to acknowledge it or not, being able to ride attractions with little to no wait, as many times as they want to, again, with no wait IS better access than non-GAC guests were getting.

 

[OurBigTrip]

And man, your world really is black and white isn't it? It sounds like you wouldn't even care if the new system actually resulted in longer waits for you and the disabled people you would still endorse it because it's equal.

I have no reason to believe that the new system will result in longer waits for the non-disabled, I believe quite the contrary.

I believe that everyone (with rare exceptions) should have to wait, period.

 

[aaarcher86]

If the wait for the autistic child is 10 times harder than the wait for the neurotypical child, than the autistic child is at a disadvantage, even if the wait is of equal length and even if the autistic child is allowed to wander the park while waiting. It's not possible to achieve equality. We are all too different. If the focus instead is on access, there should be no insurmountable obstacles between a disabled guest and a ride. A single parent at Disney World with an autistic child is expected to approach a ride and then leave with a time and then go back when the time is up: for some this is doable, for some it is not. The flipped-wait plan proposed by cmwade solves this. It's kinda brilliant and it will probably invite more abuse but I'd rather see the margin of error be on more abusers getting in than on more disabled guests getting shut out.

There are kiosks to give a return time in conjunction with FP+. You don't have to go to the ride and leave it. I can understand waiting is more difficult but I also think that it kind of goes with the territory when going to a theme park.

My girlfriend's autistic child can't handle ground that changes... I can only explain it like mud or sand or gravel. Something that changes in feeling while walking on it. As such, she doesn't take him to the beach. If she did, she'd understand that she'd need to work with and around his issues. Obviously WDW is setting up accommodations to help whereas the beach doesn't, but my point was that disabilities do limit what we can do and how we can do it.

I know someone else pointed this out but I would assume Disney looked into that type of system since some of the other CA parks use it.

 

[Sunnywho]

There are kiosks to give a return time. You don't have to go to the ride and leave it.

At Disney World there are no kiosks.

 

[OurBigTrip]

If the wait for the autistic child is 10 times harder than the wait for the neurotypical child, than the autistic child is at a disadvantage, even if the wait is of equal length and even if the autistic child is allowed to wander the park while waiting. It's not possible to achieve equality. We are all too different. If the focus instead is on access, there should be no insurmountable obstacles between a disabled guest and a ride. A single parent at Disney World with an autistic child is expected to approach a ride and then leave with a time and then go back when the time is up: for some this is doable, for some it is not. The flipped-wait plan proposed by cmwade solves this. It's kinda brilliant and it will probably invite more abuse but I'd rather see the margin of error be on more abusers getting in than on more disabled guests getting shut out.

Disney is providing equal access, which is all they are required to do. There is no doubt that many people don't like the new system, precisely because it is equal access. For way too long, too many people were accustomed to privileged access, and Disney is, and rightly so IMO, doing their best to take that away.

 

[aaarcher86]

At Disney World there are no kiosks.

Sorry. I edited. But it's also incredibly difficult to figure out which park people Re talking about at any given time. Also according to the FAQ you can get a return time at any FP+ kiosk throughout the park.

 

[OurBigTrip]

At Disney World there are no kiosks.

An easy fix would be to allow a CM at any attraction provide a wait time for any other attraction using the Disney app.

 

[Sunnywho]

An easy fix would be to allow a CM at any attraction provide a wait time for any other attraction using the Disney app.

That would work, I think.

The focus on equality in terms of minutes seems not correct from the disabled perspective. I can only speak for myself but where other people might say, "I have time for this," or "I don't have time for this," I say, "I have energy for this" or "I don't have energy for this." I run out of energy really fast, and there are things I can do to slightly improve the situation, but overall it's the disability and it is what it is. So for me, to wait in line, I'm not concerned about the units of time that are passing, I'm concerned about the units of energy that are being used up. The same wait might cost me many times the energy it costs someone else. This is mental energy; my brain wears out. I think for autistic children, it's sometimes emotional energy; their emotions wear out.

For me, the current DAS system is perfect. The quiet waiting areas are exactly what I need and will use, but I am worried that the CM might not give me a DAS. Hidden disabilities are difficult to explain.

 

[Talking Hands]

Disney is providing equal access, which is all they are required to do. There is no doubt that many people don't like the new system, precisely because it is equal access. For way too long, too many people were accustomed to privileged access, and Disney is, and rightly so IMO, doing their best to take that away.

You claim Disney is providing equal access. That is purely your opinion. Whether the wait is before or after we still will wait. Some disabilities just plain don't and will not get equal access.

 

[OurBigTrip]

You claim Disney is providing equal access. That is purely your opinion. Whether the wait is before or after we still will wait. Some disabilities just plain don't and will not get equal access.

Yes, I understand that not all of the shows are interpreted, which complicates your touring plans considerably.

 

[Talking Hands]

That would work, I think.

The focus on equality in terms of minutes seems not correct from the disabled perspective. I can only speak for myself but where other people might say, "I have time for this," or "I don't have time for this," I say, "I have energy for this" or "I don't have energy for this." I run out of energy really fast, and there are things I can do to slightly improve the situation, but overall it's the disability and it is what it is. So for me, to wait in line, I'm not concerned about the units of time that are passing, I'm concerned about the units of energy that are being used up. The same wait might cost me many times the energy it costs someone else. This is mental energy; my brain wears out. I think for autistic children, it's sometimes emotional energy; their emotions wear out.

This is so true. It isn't always physical energy that runs out but mental. Add a physical disability that is taken care of by a power wheelchair to several hidden disabilities including mental meltdowns life becomes a lot more difficult and less equal.

 

[curemyreed]

As far as gaming the system if people are allowed straight into the accessible line, they still have to wait. I can't see it being very attractive for a gamer... They just shouldn't have to wait twice. I'm sure there are times that the stars align and they get right onto an attraction but I'd say that's rare. The biggest draw for the scammers was going right into the FP line and waiting 10 minutes whenever they wanted.


I agree that they can't keep this broken DAS system around. Although I don't think it is broken due to guests having a hard time with a new routine. But rather because it is forcing some guests to wait longer than those in standby lines. And forcing disabled people to travel around more to ride an attraction. I hope that Disney will work to fix this broken system. Surely, they are noting the flaws and working toward fixing it. I believe them when they say they want all guests to have an equal opportunity to enjoy their parks. I hope they don't continue too long subjecting the disabled to inequality just to appease those who think that different access is better than what they are getting.

It's not so much in this thread, but I've seen a slew of complaints from people who are unhappy about having to wait before they can go into the FP line. There's also a lot of criticism saying their children don't have the cognitive ability to understand why they can't do something immediately like they have before, but this thread has really kind of turned into more of a discussion on added waits for the accessible/alternate entrance lines.[/QUOTE]

A concern of so many bothering to post here seems to be that all guests wait an equal amount of time. I don't remember from your previous posts if this includes you? This would not happen if SOME guests were admitted straight into the accessible line or possibly given an alternative DAS system. At times this solution could result in equal waits to standby lines. At other times it will result in shorter than standby wait times. This flies in the face of the "you shouldn't get to wait in line less than me because you are disabled" attitude.

I don't care if disabled guests wait less than me. Some here apparently do. How do we know what is attractive to a gamer? How can we know what the biggest draw was for them? I've never seen one of them post about his/her deeds. I've only seen people post their perceptions of how people were cheating using the GAC. And one MSM article about an insignificant number of Manhattanites abusing the system; I believe the author referred to them as the 1%. If you are referencing the NY Post regarding "rich Manhattan moms hiring handicapped tour guides so kids can cut lines at Disneyworld"...why wouldn't these moms adapt & hire handicapped guests to bring them into instantly accessible ride queues? It would be a stretch to think that these queues won't have less wait times varying by ride, time of day, etc. while at other times the wait time will be equal to standby times. There would be less than waiting than just doing standby lines.

I also have read threads regarding waits to return to the ride and how guests with cognitive differences are struggling. I chose not to include it because another trend on this thread I have seen is that when a flaw to the DAS system is noted some folks (not saying you, I have no idea) throw those subjects out as red herrings. I'm not addressing whether autistic kids should be made to wait the same amount of time as neurotypical kids. That is a whole other topic to discuss.

 

[curemyreed]

The DAS isn't nearly as broken as the GAC was.

And whether you want to acknowledge it or not, being able to ride attractions with little to no wait, as many times as they want to, again, with no wait IS better access than non-GAC guests were getting.

Did I compare the GAC to the DAS system? Where did I reference a guest riding attractions repeatedly with no wait? This is a red herring which serves to not address the flaws I spoke about in the DAS system.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Did I compare the GAC to the DAS system? Where did I reference a guest riding attractions repeatedly with no wait? This is a red herring which serves to not address the flaws I spoke about in the DAS system.

The post you quoted and responded to, the one talking about a broken system, was referring to the GAC, not the DAS. Your comments then twisted that around to say the DAS was broken.

 

[cmwade77]

A concern of so many bothering to post here seems to be that all guests wait an equal amount of time. I don't remember from your previous posts if this includes you? This would not happen if SOME guests were admitted straight into the accessible line or possibly given an alternative DAS system. At times this solution could result in equal waits to standby lines. At other times it will result in shorter than standby wait times. This flies in the face of the "you shouldn't get to wait in line less than me because you are disabled" attitude.

I don't think that those that need assistance should have any shorter wait than those that don't, but I also don't think the wait should be any longer either.

The system I suggested equalizes the waits, really both systems I have suggested (either from the original post or getting your next return time when you enter a queue for an attraction) does this.

 

[aaarcher86]

It's not so much in this thread, but I've seen a slew of complaints from people who are unhappy about having to wait before they can go into the FP line. There's also a lot of criticism saying their children don't have the cognitive ability to understand why they can't do something immediately like they have before, but this thread has really kind of turned into more of a discussion on added waits for the accessible/alternate entrance lines.

A concern of so many bothering to post here seems to be that all guests wait an equal amount of time. I don't remember from your previous posts if this includes you? This would not happen if SOME guests were admitted straight into the accessible line or possibly given an alternative DAS system. At times this solution could result in equal waits to standby lines. At other times it will result in shorter than standby wait times. This flies in the face of the "you shouldn't get to wait in line less than me because you are disabled" attitude. I don't care if disabled guests wait less than me. Some here apparently do. How do we know what is attractive to a gamer? How can we know what the biggest draw was for them? I've never seen one of them post about his/her deeds. I've only seen people post their perceptions of how people were cheating using the GAC. And one MSM article about an insignificant number of Manhattanites abusing the system; I believe the author referred to them as the 1%. If you are referencing the NY Post regarding "rich Manhattan moms hiring handicapped tour guides so kids can cut lines at Disneyworld"...why wouldn't these moms adapt & hire handicapped guests to bring them into instantly accessible ride queues? It would be a stretch to think that these queues won't have less wait times varying by ride, time of day, etc. while at other times the wait time will be equal to standby times. There would be less than waiting than just doing standby lines. I also have read threads regarding waits to return to the ride and how guests with cognitive differences are struggling. I chose not to include it because another trend on this thread I have seen is that when a flaw to the DAS system is noted some folks (not saying you, I have no idea) throw those subjects out as red herrings. I'm not addressing whether autistic kids should be made to wait the same amount of time as neurotypical kids. That is a whole other topic to discuss.[/QUOTE]

IMO, knowing that mobility challenged guests need to wait for a certain few vehicles I wouldn't really care if they wait less than I do. If it works out that way than its of no doing of their own. I imagine it'd all end balancing out.

I think what's attractive to a gamer in this instance is pretty easy to decipher... Little wait. Could someone do the same hiring of a wheelchair bound individual? Sure. But I'm willing to bet 9/10 the wait would be longer if anything else.

And no, I haven't mentioned what effects the new DAS system and/or alternate entrances will have on my family because I'm a personal believer of keeping emotions out of discussions like these. I try not to make this type of stuff too personal. I also think that no matter if it effects someone directly or not that we are all entitled to an opinion

 

[curemyreed]

The post you quoted and responded to, the one talking about a broken system, was referring to the GAC, not the DAS. Your comments then twisted that around to say the DAS was broken.

No, no twisting. I was responding to post #334 where the author uses the DAS acronym repeatedly, but never the GAC. Sounds like you read her interpretation of a broken system differently than me.

 

[OurBigTrip]

No, no twisting. I was responding to post #334 where the author uses the DAS acronym repeatedly, but never the GAC. Sounds like you read her interpretation of a broken system differently than me.

Nope.

Disney really can't be responsible or held accountable for difficulty in adjusting. They have to change things as a business as needed. Things change all the time with life and adjusting has to happen. They can't keep a broken system around because guests have a difficult time with a new routine.

The poster is referring to the change from the GAC to the DAS, with the GAC being the broken system.

 

[cmwade77]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that if someone in a wheelchair is in the Fast Pass line, and they need an accessible vehicle, everyone behind them has to wait until one comes along? If so, I agree, that's ridiculous.

At certain attractions, guests who need assistance (particularly if they can't do stairs) indeed have to wait behind the people who need an accessible vehicle. Small World at DLR is one example, California Screamin' is another example of this.

 

[curemyreed]

A concern of so many bothering to post here seems to be that all guests wait an equal amount of time. I don't remember from your previous posts if this includes you? This would not happen if SOME guests were admitted straight into the accessible line or possibly given an alternative DAS system. At times this solution could result in equal waits to standby lines. At other times it will result in shorter than standby wait times. This flies in the face of the "you shouldn't get to wait in line less than me because you are disabled" attitude. I don't care if disabled guests wait less than me. Some here apparently do. How do we know what is attractive to a gamer? How can we know what the biggest draw was for them? I've never seen one of them post about his/her deeds. I've only seen people post their perceptions of how people were cheating using the GAC. And one MSM article about an insignificant number of Manhattanites abusing the system; I believe the author referred to them as the 1%. If you are referencing the NY Post regarding "rich Manhattan moms hiring handicapped tour guides so kids can cut lines at Disneyworld"...why wouldn't these moms adapt & hire handicapped guests to bring them into instantly accessible ride queues? It would be a stretch to think that these queues won't have less wait times varying by ride, time of day, etc. while at other times the wait time will be equal to standby times. There would be less than waiting than just doing standby lines. I also have read threads regarding waits to return to the ride and how guests with cognitive differences are struggling. I chose not to include it because another trend on this thread I have seen is that when a flaw to the DAS system is noted some folks (not saying you, I have no idea) throw those subjects out as red herrings. I'm not addressing whether autistic kids should be made to wait the same amount of time as neurotypical kids. That is a whole other topic to discuss.

IMO, knowing that mobility challenged guests need to wait for a certain few vehicles I wouldn't really care if they wait less than I do. If it works out that way than its of no doing of their own. I imagine it'd all end balancing out.

I think what's attractive to a gamer in this instance is pretty easy to decipher... Little wait. Could someone do the same hiring of a wheelchair bound individual? Sure. But I'm willing to bet 9/10 the wait would be longer if anything else.

And no, I haven't mentioned what effects the new DAS system and/or alternate entrances will have on my family because I'm a personal believer of keeping emotions out of discussions like these. I try not to make this type of stuff too personal. I also think that no matter if it effects someone directly or not that we are all entitled to an opinion [/QUOTE]

I'm seeing plenty of people able to discuss the effects of these changes without becoming emotional or too personal. And I bet a lot of people, like you, choose to engage in the discussion without discussing how it impacts them or their family individually. Still others seem to be posting who are not disabled or connected to someone who is. With so many concerned folks there are a lot of minds exploring whether cmwade77's system may improve upon the DAS system and why it may or may not do so. I see that as a positive.