Will GM or Chrysler going under affect you?

[fussymonkey]

The 10% comes from the idea that only 10% of Honda's workforce is in the US therefore they are only paying health benefits for a very small portion of thier workforce globally - not that they are only paying 10% of each employee's coverage.

As far as your husband goes, good on you. I'm not saying that there isn't room in the market for imports as well as domestics. I'm just saying comparing the two is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

 

[MinnieMousePink]

My husband and I both work for the same "Automotive Company". It has been so rocky and layoff plans are in the works. It is scary. Our largest Suppliers are GM and Toyota. GM doesn't have a clue what they are doing. One day they order a ton the next day nothing. But if they go bankrupt we are screwed!!! The "Automotive Company" isn't at fault I am not mad at them at all, they are doing their best to keep us and cut extras where they can. We are praying for the best. Along with us, my mother in law, brother, and cousin also work there. I always joke it is the family business

But one thing are we still going to the happiest place on earth??? Heck yes!! I told my husband we are not giving that up no matter what happens, because it could be our last hoorah!! and it has been planned and paid for for such a long time.

Good Luck to everyone else in a rotten position at this time.

 

[wright1baby]

I wasn't comparing anything, just wanted to bring some facts into focus. What is going on in Detroit (area) and around the nation is going to be hard on all of us. We could try to point fingers all day and it's not going to fix the issue at hand.
Big Hugs to all of those this affects directly and indirectly.

 

[mafibisha]

Why should we move, we live in America and have every right to purchase a foreign made product here and by doing so we still support American workers. Are you saying that those workers jobs aren't as important as any other Americans just because they happen to work for a foreign company?

Why? Read the post below. It bears repeating again and again.

Its quite likely one of those next jobs lost will be YOURS! or your spouse's; no one is immune. THEN maybe you'll finally get it.

I cringe when I see foreign cars. My grandpa rages when talking about this. He and millions of Americans fought in WWII and now we're giving away our country to them! Its like the analogy I just heard: buying foreign cars while living in America is like sending a care package to a middle eastern terrorist, while your son is fighting there!!!

So read the post below again, and really think about it!

It's a matter of scale. If Nissan disappears, it's bad for a fairly finite amount of people. It's terrible, but it's not like the Titanic going down and sucking us all with it.

If Chrysler and GM go, there are a quarter of a million jobs gone OVERNIGHT, then another 2 million supply & other support jobs gone within a matter of months, and then all the teachers, nurses, sub shops etc. that depend on the income from those millions of jobs.

 

[luvmy3]

Why? Read the post below. It bears repeating again and again.

Its quite likely one of those next jobs lost will be YOURS! or your spouse's; no one is immune. THEN maybe you'll finally get it.

I cringe when I see foreign cars. My grandpa rages when talking about this. He and millions of Americans fought in WWII and now we're giving away our country to them! Its like the analogy I just heard: buying foreign cars while living in America is like sending a care package to a middle eastern terrorist, while your son is fighting there!!!

So read the post below again, and really think about it!

Please don't assume I don't get it just because I see things differently from you. I'm truly sorry for the people directly and indirectly effected by all this, but this not the American consumer's fault. If you are looking to place the blame on someone look to the UAW and the companies themselves. You want jobs to be saved send your complaints to them.

BTW, you still didn't answer the question, are the jobs of American employees that work for American companies more important than jobs of American employees working for foreign companies? As far I see it we should be protecting any American's job whether that be someone who works for the Big 3 or someone who works for a foreign automaker. I have this feeling judging by your posts that you don't feel the same, but you don't see me suggesting that you don't get it

 

[wright1baby]

please don't assume i don't get it just because i see things differently from you. I'm truly sorry for the people directly and indirectly effected by all this, but this not the american consumer's fault. If you are looking to place the blame on someone look to the uaw and the companies themselves. You want jobs to be saved send your complaints to them.

Btw, you still didn't answer the question, are the jobs of american employees that work for american companies more important than jobs of american employees working for foreign companies? As far i see it we should be protecting any american's job whether that be someone who works for the big 3 or someone who works for a foreign automaker. I have this feeling judging by your posts that you don't feel the same, but you don't see me suggesting that you don't get it

ita...

 

[tavettava]

Yes it is hitting us too. Dh works for the state government. I hate to say it but Michigan is in the crapper and will be for awhile. Since companies that have something to do with the big 3 (or the big 3 themselves) are closing up shop, or closing plants Michigan has begun taking over cities (Pontiac, which is a pretty big city, my sisters city is next she told me last night, because Ford closed a plant her dh worked for) that cannot pay bills, plus on top of it the state has more people getting welfare. So now the state is pulling the plug on some agencies and departments and that is hitting us since as of Oct 1, my dh will not have a job (unless he finds one, which is going to be hard). We can't sell our home, we have 5 foreclosed homes on our street, plus 2 houses that have been on the market for over 2 years. My bil was layed off from Fords (they have a baby on the way), my fil and aunt are retired from GM, my grandpa is a retired from Ford. My town is about 2 minutes from the biggest Ford Truck plant and they are getting rid of people left and right which makes the tiny town it is in look like a ghost town and it is hitting our city. I do live in a suburb of Detroit and there are 2 major plants here the Wayne truck plant and the Rouge plant. And to whoever said we didn't care about the steel plants closing is wrong. Michigan cared we lost a lot of jobs because of that too. Everyone needs to wake up before their cities or towns get like ours. Both of our movie theaters went under, Sam's pulled out, Value City (the furniture store will be next), Circuit City, Michaels, Lazy Boy, Tj Max, Marshalls and dozens of restaurants and other stores have closed here in the last year. My ds school has now became a Title 1 school (which means now over 50% of the kids get free lunch, and this has never happened there before.) Our schools get less money because of less taxes getting pulled in. If people do somehow get out of the state and come to "your" state they will be taking jobs and "your" kids classes will get bigger also. The Federal govt may also start pulling money out of states that aren't hurting as much as some states to give to the states that are hurting, that will hurt you too.

 

[mafibisha]

Please don't assume I don't get it just because I see things differently from you. I'm truly sorry for the people directly and indirectly effected by all this, but this not the American consumer's fault. If you are looking to place the blame on someone look to the UAW and the companies themselves. You want jobs to be saved send your complaints to them.

BTW, you still didn't answer the question, are the jobs of American employees that work for American companies more important than jobs of American employees working for foreign companies? As far I see it we should be protecting any American's job whether that be someone who works for the Big 3 or someone who works for a foreign automaker. I have this feeling judging by your posts that you don't feel the same, but you don't see me suggesting that you don't get it

There are myriad reasons for the big 3 auto crisis but a huge part is the failure of the American people to support (buy) American products. While the American autos may have lagged behind for awhile, that was THEN and this is NOW. They are in CRISIS and their loss WILL affect everyone. As another poster said previously, if you think you won't be effected, you are truly living in Fantasyland! We are ALL in this together and their sovlvency WILL EFFECT YOU. And NOT in a good way.


Yes, I DID answer your question by quoting the poster below. Jobs in foreign companies are important but there numbers, and their losses are wayyyy less than the cumulative snowball effect of the big 3 losses. Please read what the poster says below, that I put in red:


Originally Posted by jodifla It's a matter of scale. If Nissan disappears, it's bad for a fairly finite amount of people. It's terrible, but it's not like the Titanic going down and sucking us all with it.

If Chrysler and GM go, there are a quarter of a million jobs gone OVERNIGHT, then another 2 million supply & other support jobs gone within a matter of months, and then all the teachers, nurses, sub shops etc. that depend on the income from those millions of jobs.[/[/COLOR][/B]QUOTE]

 

[luvmy3]

there are myriad reasons for the big 3 auto crisis but a huge part is the failure of the american people to support (buy) american products. While the american autos may have lagged behind for awhile, that was then and this is now. They are in crisis and their loss will affect everyone. As another poster said previously, if you think you won't be effected, you are truly living in fantasyland! We are all in this together and their sovlvency will effect you. And not in a good way.


Yes, i did answer your question by quoting the poster below. Jobs in foreign companies are important but there numbers, and their losses are wayyyy less than the cumulative snowball effect of the big 3 losses. Please read what the poster says below, that i put in red:


originally posted by jodifla it's a matter of scale. If nissan disappears, it's bad for a fairly finite amount of people. It's terrible, but it's not like the titanic going down and sucking us all with it.

If chrysler and gm go, there are a quarter of a million jobs gone overnight, then another 2 million supply & other support jobs gone within a matter of months, and then all the teachers, nurses, sub shops etc. That depend on the income from those millions of jobs.[/[/color][/b]quote]

i am well aware it will effect everyone, NO WHERE DID I STATE OTHERWISE

IF THE COMPANIES AREN'T PUTTING OUT A PRODUCT THAT THE AMERICAN COMSUMER WANTS THEN IT IS THE COMPANIES FAULT NOT THE AMERICAN CONSUMER. BUT YOU GO AHEAD AND KEEP BLAMING THEM IF YOU WANT, I'M DONE HERE.

 

[fkj2]

Its like the analogy I just heard: buying foreign cars while living in America is like sending a care package to a middle eastern terrorist, while your son is fighting there!!!

Americans didn't turn away from purchasing autos from the Big Three because the cars they made offered outstanding quality and value; competing foreign carmakers delivered the style and dependability that consumers wanted. No one--that I know--has $20-$30K to go out and buy an American made vehicle that doesn't work, only to replace it after 1-2 years at a significant loss from depreciation. Once that trust was lost, well, we can see the lengths the Big Three are displaying now to regenerate consumer interest in their product.

Is it sad? Absolutely.

But everyone needs to remember that trade is not a one way street. Are we importing things that could (and should) be made in the USA? Yes. But we're also exporting goods and services that generate income for American companies and agriculture. But to equate buying a car made by a company based overseas to "sending a care package" to terrorists...that's a bit of a stretch. Are any cars even manufactured in the Middle East? I thought most came from Asia.

If anger should be directed anywhere, we should be asking lawmakers how the legistlation was enacted that made it so easy for jobs to off-shored over the past 10-15 years.

 

[mafibisha]

i am well aware it will effect everyone, NO WHERE DID I STATE OTHERWISE

IF THE COMPANIES AREN'T PUTTING OUT A PRODUCT THAT THE AMERICAN COMSUMER WANTS THEN IT IS THE COMPANIES FAULT NOT THE AMERICAN CONSUMER. BUT YOU GO AHEAD AND KEEP BLAMING THEM IF YOU WANT, I'M DONE HERE.

The product is now excellent, as many here have said, including many major nationwide research companies.

But too many Americans remain skeptical and refuse to give the big3 the chance they deserve. Sadly, those skeptics (obviously including you) remain closed minded and continue adding to the demise of the big 3 and our national economy, including their own wallets. Time will tell as each day brings more and more job losses.

(PS, its been said people SHOUT when they're not quite sure what they're saying. Anywho, buh-bye now )

 

[joybeth]

My husband and I both work for the same "Automotive Company". It has been so rocky and layoff plans are in the works. It is scary. Our largest Suppliers are GM and Toyota. GM doesn't have a clue what they are doing. One day they order a ton the next day nothing. But if they go bankrupt we are screwed!!! The "Automotive Company" isn't at fault I am not mad at them at all, they are doing their best to keep us and cut extras where they can. We are praying for the best. Along with us, my mother in law, brother, and cousin also work there. I always joke it is the family business

But one thing are we still going to the happiest place on earth??? Heck yes!! I told my husband we are not giving that up no matter what happens, because it could be our last hoorah!! and it has been planned and paid for for such a long time.

Good Luck to everyone else in a rotten position at this time.

We are all in this together. However, don't assume that GM doesn't have a clue what they are doing just because they order a ton one day and none the next. There are probably good reasons that aren't apparent to you.

Keep the faith! We need to stick together to get through this thing. Doesn't help when the rest of the country doesn't give a dam* and doesn't think it will affect them. By the time the figure it out it will probably be too late for everyone.

jb

 

[fkj2]

Keep the faith! We need to stick together to get through this thing. Doesn't help when the rest of the country doesn't give a dam* and doesn't think it will affect them. By the time the figure it out it will probably be too late for everyone.

jb

I'm going to have to go back and re-read this thread. I must have missed those posts that indicated "the rest of the country doesn't give a dam*," and "doesn't think it will affect them."

Huh. I'd have thought any posts that were THAT callous would have jumped out at me.

Nobody--that I recall--dismissed the problem. I thought the general consensus was that yes, the auto industry is in dire straits. It's just hard to regain credibility once you've lost it.

 

[luvmy3]

The product is now excellent, as many here have said, including many major nationwide research companies.

But too many Americans remain skeptical and refuse to give the big3 the chance they deserve. Sadly, those skeptics (obviously including you) remain closed minded and continue adding to the demise of the big 3 and our national economy, including their own wallets. Time will tell as each day brings more and more job losses.

(PS, its been said people SHOUT when they're not quite sure what they're saying. Anywho, buh-bye now )

Hi Pot

 

[luvmy3]

I found this to be an interesting read. its dated from 1983 and discusses Chyrsler back then. Gov't loans were a band-aid then and they are a band-aid now. I guess the saying is true, if we don't learn History we are doomed to repeat it. I have a feeling in another 30 years our children will be having this same debate over who is ever left out of the Big3.

http://www.heritage.org/research/regulation/bg276.cfm

 

[Momto3Girls&Max]

Americans didn't turn away from purchasing autos from the Big Three because the cars they made offered outstanding quality and value; competing foreign carmakers delivered the style and dependability that consumers wanted. No one--that I know--has $20-$30K to go out and buy an American made vehicle that doesn't work, only to replace it after 1-2 years at a significant loss from depreciation. Once that trust was lost, well, we can see the lengths the Big Three are displaying now to regenerate consumer interest in their product.

Exactly.

 

[ReneeA]

I found this to be an interesting read. its dated from 1983 and discusses Chyrsler back then. Gov't loans were a band-aid then and they are a band-aid now. I guess the saying is true, if we don't learn History we are doomed to repeat it. I have a feeling in another 30 years our children will be having this same debate over who is ever left out of the Big3.

http://www.heritage.org/research/regulation/bg276.cfm

Chrysler paid back all of that money plus interest.

Then they went onto design and produce the minivan, which has been one of the most sold and copied auto of all time...all the while keeping hundreds of thousands employed for the next 25 years.

Some of your arguments make sense...this one does not hold water at all. They paid their dues and then some.

 

[jodifla]

Let's get our facts straight, shall we?

Actually, the problem for GM and Chrysler is NOT that people don't want to buy their cars. They have a healthy enough market even with all the American-car bashers out there, although it could certanily be better.

PEOPLE AREN'T BUYING TOYOTAS OR HONDAS EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People can't get CREDIT! That's the issue for ALL the car companies these days, WORLDWIDE.


http://www.detnews.com/article/20090409/AUTO01/904090422/Detroit+s+auto+pain+hits+Japan


Detroit's auto pain hits Japan
Dependence on U.S. sales sends industry's problems overseas
Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News

Tokyo -- Five of Japan's eight automakers are expected to post significant losses in the next few weeks. Demand for their cars and trucks in the United States, their biggest market, has plunged nearly 35 percent in the past year. Scores of suppliers are on the brink of bankruptcy. Thousands of workers have lost their jobs, and many are losing their homes.

These are challenges Detroit has been struggling with for years.

But this is not Detroit.

This is Tokyo, where laid-off auto workers are sleeping in parks, financiers are fretting about the impact of a General Motors Corp. bankruptcy on already weak parts makers, and the heads of once-invincible automakers like Toyota Motor Corp. are watching sales decline and losses mount.

 

[luvmy3]

Chrysler paid back all of that money plus interest.

Then they went onto design and produce the minivan, which has been one of the most sold and copied auto of all time...all the while keeping hundreds of thousands employed for the next 25 years.

Some of your arguments make sense...this one does not hold water at all. They paid their dues and then some.

I'm just pointing out a pattern here. Chrysler has already been in big trouble only to get out with the help of the gov't and only to get themselves in trouble again. When is it time to say Okay lets just see what happens and let the chips fall where they may? As bad as things get I have no doubt over time we will recover and maybe some lessons will be learned so that the Automakers who do make it through aren't in this kind of position again and that our children aren't worrying about their jobs in 30 years. Is this really something we should be looking foward to doing every few decades?

 

[fkj2]

Let's get our facts straight, shall we?

Great idea.

These are the facts as I see them:

Personally, corporately, and publicly (as in the government), we as a country have incurred too much debt. While yes, it's true now that obtaining credit is an issue, that wasn't the problem during the years when the percentage of autos the Big Three sold continually dwindled. Quality was the issue THEN. But NOW that people no longer have the disposable income to support their (percived) lifestyles, they seem to be understanding that they CAN live with fewer materialistic possessions. Unfortunately for all auto makers (and housing and retailing and tourism, etc.) the perfect economic storm has landed.

When are we going to awaken to the fact that when conditions are deteriorating, we accept the obvious and make changes that will correct the problem?

The same concerns could be extrapolated about health care and education. I hold no illusions that unless the medical profession takes steps (that I think are necessary) to improve medical care and control costs, that field may be the next to follow Detroit.

I find the discussions regarding bondholders of any company "taking a haircut" on their investments interesting; it would make me unwilling to risk investing in a government who seems to be so dismissive of investors' money. If investors should be expected to lose resources with a "troubled" company, why would anyone buy securities issued by the government itself? It's looking pretty "troubled" to me.