Why are we STILL ignoring the warning signs?

[erc]

And complaining on the Dis about how others are treating/ignoring this helps you how?

Back to the "we are Italy" you keep espousing. It's actually apples to oranges to compare case counts. Italy's population is 60M. The US is 300M. Even if the US gets as many cases as Italy has, the percentage of the population with the virus would be much less.

Italy is a very old population especially the areas that were hit the hardest. And they live in close proximity to each other, are used to social gatherings, whether religious, or cultural, and frequently kiss as a friendly greeting. Truly apples and oranges.

 

[erc]

What more do people really want to see? This is what we have so far:

1) No gatherings of more than 10 people
2) All non-essential businesses closed. Millions out of work.
3) All schools closed. Kids trapped at home.

Seriously. I see people arguing we need to do more. What exactly is more to do? As it is people are shut in because they have lost their jobs. Millions of kids and college students are shut in because their schools are closed.

In all seriousness, what more could we possibly do?

 

[maxiesmom]

What more do people really want to see? This is what we have so far:

1) No gatherings of more than 10 people
2) All non-essential businesses closed. Millions out of work.
3) All schools closed. Kids trapped at home.

Seriously. I see people arguing we need to do more. What exactly is more to do? As it is people are shut in because they have lost their jobs. Millions of kids and college students are shut in because their schools are closed.

In all seriousness, what more could we possibly do?

Have you not seen how many people are still going out as if things are normal? Florida is finally closing it's beaches today, after thousands were ignoring the advice about social distancing. How many of them are carrying the virus, don't know it, and have now infected many others?

What we need to see is more states on lockdown. Too many people won't stay home unless they are forced to.

 

[erc]

Have you not seen how many people are still going out as if things are normal? Florida is finally closing it's beaches today, after thousands were ignoring the advice about social distancing. How many of them are carrying the virus, don't know it, and have now infected many others?

What we need to see is more states on lockdown. Too many people won't stay home unless they are forced to.

Like a lockdown in not being able to leave your house at all? So even the gatherings of 10 or less are out the window? Is there a scientific paper that explains a lockdown is necessary to "flatten the curve", after all that was the original intention right? I mean everyone understands we are not going to prevent this virus from spreading completely right?

You think we need a complete lockdown, shoot anyone caught outside their homes just to "flatten the curve"?

 

[Traveling on cc points]

The vulnerable worry about the same things. They need an income and those other things too. How would that be supplied? There are no easy answers to any of this.

I don’t pretend to have the answers to all the hard questions but I know what is currently happening, isn’t working. Hindsight is always 20/20 but if the government had just isolated these groups from the beginning they could have used a portion of the 1 trillion stimulus packs to help the affected people and limited the devastation to the economy while at the same time keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed.

 

[mjkacmom]

Like a lockdown in not being able to leave your house at all? So even the gatherings of 10 or less are out the window? Is there a scientific paper that explains a lockdown is necessary to "flatten the curve", after all that was the original intention right? I mean everyone understands we are not going to prevent this virus from spreading completely right?

You think we need a complete lockdown, shoot anyone caught outside their homes just to "flatten the curve"?

The point of flatten the curve is to slow down the spread of the disease so that medical facilities aren’t so overwhelmed that people are just left to die.

 

[erc]

I don’t pretend to have the answers to all the hard questions but I know what is currently happening, isn’t working. Hindsight is always 20/20 but if the government had just isolated these groups from the beginning they could have used a portion of the 1 trillion stimulus packs to help the affected people and limited the devastation to the economy while at the same time keeping the hospitals from being overwhelmed.

I think it is worthy to study when this is all done.

The point of flatten the curve is to slow down the spread of the disease so that medical facilities aren’t so overwhelmed that people are just left to die.

Correct. And you think the only way to flatten the curve is to shoot anyone that leaves their house?

 

[Lilsia]

There’s a scene in the original Jurassic Park where Ellie and Mr Hammond are talking about “Where it went wrong.” At one point Ellie says “You never had control. That’s the illusion!”

The illusion here is that the economy could have been saved. Just China, South Korea and Japan dealing with this was starting to crack things. Look at Disney’s exposure. I have read articles from business who depend on exports to China and how they were very close to having to lay people off.

Europe would always have been next. There isolation would have been another set of bombs in our economy. As the virus spread to other Asian countries like Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia more of the manufacturing supply chains we depend on would be disrupted. With those countries being so populous, and with so many poor, it’s going to rip through those factories like wildfire.

People would be watching it here, and the panic that gripped the country after 9/11 would return, only this time reinforced with the news of friends, family, acquaintances, co-workers, church parishioners, neighbors getting sick or worse. With that backdrop, enough people would self-isolate on their own. Maybe not as many are now, but enough to set off a 3rd round of economic bombs.

We shouldn’t kid ourselves that massive layoffs weren’t coming. Maybe they don’t start until May, instead of now, and maybe they spread themselves out over 6 months instead of weeks. But that slower speed might also have sapped the commitment to do what will be needed to fix the economy.

Small businesses are already closing for good where I live. 4 days ago, our governor enacted the state of emergency which limits businesses to essential and take out only type of services for food. So the Kwik shops cancelled their donut orders that they receive from a local shop that evening for all of their shops, after the thousands of donuts where already made. The owner relies on that business and he just shut all 3 of his shops for good. A few dozen people are out of jobs now. Another local owner closed some of his restaurants for good, they were the breakfast/brunch places. This is really sad.

 

[morgan98]

Small businesses are already closing for good where I live. 4 days ago, our governor enacted the state of emergency which limits businesses to essential and take out only type of services for food. So the Kwik shops cancelled their donut orders that they receive from a local shop that evening for all of their shops, after the thousands of donuts where already made. The owner relies on that business and he just shut all 3 of his shops for good. A few dozen people are out of jobs now. Another local owner closed some of his restaurants for good, they were the breakfast/brunch places. This is really sad.

I think this is going to be very sobering when things get back to any type of new normal. Many places that are closing are never going to re-open. Many businesses run on paper thin margins in the best of times....owners are not sitting on piles of cash to pay their own expenses while there is not income coming in, let alone continuing to pay rent and other associated expenses white things are shuttered.

So many people are going to be un or underemployed that it isn't going to be possible for a majority of people to go on a spending spree to open everything back up.

 

[mjkacmom]

I think it is worthy to study when this is all done.


Correct. And you think the only way to flatten the curve is to shoot anyone that leaves their house?

Well, people who study this stuff as their full time jobs agree that yes, quarantining is what works. What else would slow the spread of a very contagious virus?

 

[erc]

Small businesses are already closing for good where I live. 4 days ago, our governor enacted the state of emergency which limits businesses to essential and take out only type of services for food. So the Kwik shops cancelled their donut orders that they receive from a local shop that evening for all of their shops, after the thousands of donuts where already made. The owner relies on that business and he just shut all 3 of his shops for good. A few dozen people are out of jobs now. Another local owner closed some of his restaurants for good, they were the breakfast/brunch places. This is really sad.

There are going to be a lot of small businesses where this was the final nail. Many many businesses gone forever, and many many people wondering how they are going to find their next paycheck.

 

[fly girl]

Correct. And you think the only way to flatten the curve is to shoot anyone that leaves their house?

Yes, that is exactly it. Give me a break. No one is remotely saying that.

I am not going to ride this merry go round, because nobody is changing anyones opinion on what to do. But I will say I am not for a lockdown, just a shutdown. Keep vital business open (and yes a liquor store is vital, just sayin') but keep our social distance for a unfortunate time. Scientists aren't giving any concrete time frame, other than more uncomfortable than what we want. (yep, longer than the current 12 days)

I posted this on another thread and I think it got glazed over by most. It shows social distancing is the key. Full lockdowns aren't as effective.

The problem is, in the US we don't like to be told what to do. For the most part, we can be selfish and do what we want. Maybe a short term lock on flying will be necessary. But longstanding lockdown, no. Social distancing, yes. We just have to learn to do it, accept it is what it is for the time being, and move on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

 

[Lilsia]

I truly believe that this will continue much much longer than necessary and have an even greater impact on lives and the economy unless they gain control of it by making people stay home.

I saw an article in Business Insider that the Veneto area of Italy that did multiple rounds of testing on people and shut things down quickly, have had far less cases and far less deaths than the Lombardy region does. Early intervention works. Why can’t we learn from that. It’s not rocket science.

I think that the US has done early intervention. We have an extremely low number of those supposedly infected for our population. I know the media loves to make things bigger and badder then they are. But truly look at the numbers. They are extremely low in this country.

 

[erc]

Well, people who study this stuff as their full time jobs agree that yes, quarantining is what works. What else would slow the spread of a very contagious virus?

Full quarantine is trying to stop a disease, not slow it. The experts originally told us that eliminating large gatherings and social distancing would be enough to flatten the curve. Now there are voices saying we need to shoot anyone who tries to leave their house to flatten the curve. Where is the science?

 

[erc]

Yes, that is exactly it. Give me a break. No one is remotely saying that.

I am not going to ride this merry go round, because nobody is changing anyones opinion on what to do. But I will say I am not for a lockdown, just a shutdown. Keep vital business open (and yes a liquor store is vital, just sayin') but keep our social distance for a unfortunate time. Scientists aren't giving any concrete time frame, other than more uncomfortable than what we want. (yep, longer than the current 12 days)

I posted this on another thread and I think it got glazed over by most. It shows social distancing is the key. Full lockdowns aren't as effective.

The problem is, in the US we don't like to be told what to do. For the most part, we can be selfish and do what we want. Maybe a short term lock on flying will be necessary. But longstanding lockdown, no. Social distancing, yes. We just have to learn to do it, accept it is what it is for the time being, and move on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

But is that not what we are doing now? All non-essential businesses closed. All schools, colleges and daycares closed. That pretty much enforces social distancing right? But it is not enough for some. They hear that there are 8 people laughing someplace together and they want the Army to come in and arrest them.

At one point social distancing was supposed to be enough to flatten the curve. Now some argue for shooting anyone who leaves their house. It will never be enough for some of the most panicky.

 

[RamblingMad]

And complaining on the Dis about how others are treating/ignoring this helps you how?

Back to the "we are Italy" you keep espousing. It's actually apples to oranges to compare case counts. Italy's population is 60M. The US is 300M. Even if the US gets as many cases as Italy has, the percentage of the population with the virus would be much less.

Italy has more hospital beds per 1000 people than the US. Both China and South Korea have way more. People are about to learn that while we have the most expensive health care in the world, we don't have the greatest health care in the world.

NY has 8 million people. We'll see how well they do. CA has almost 40 million people. They're like a country when compared to Europe. We'll see how they do. I don't expect all states to perform the same. We have a lot of cultural differences throughout the country.

 

[Lilsia]

People, there are teens going around purposely coughing on produce in our supermarkets across the country, recording it and posting it on YouTube. There are absolute idiots out there.

And my husband and I were just talking about the produce in stores. All of it should be in their own bags. I know that creates more plastic waste, but this format with it all being open and exposed and people touching one, putting it down, etc, is really gross. It is impossible to wash produce enough to kill any virus. Cooking it will do so but not all vegetables are going to be consumed cooked.

 

[fly girl]

But is that not what we are doing now? All non-essential businesses closed. All schools, colleges and daycares closed. That pretty much enforces social distancing right? But it is not enough for some. They hear that there are 8 people laughing someplace together and they want the Army to come in and arrest them.

At one point social distancing was supposed to be enough to flatten the curve. Now some argue for shooting anyone who leaves their house. It will never be enough for some of the most panicky.

The problem is we aren't doing it everywhere. If it was nationwide then I'd be saying we are all doing our part. I am in Cincinnati, I am doing my part. Florida .... NOPE! Beaches still open, restaurants still open. Governor just said he isn't closing the beaches, it is up to local government. There lies the issue. We are not consistent. And then Joe GenZ who was on spring break in Florida comes back to Cincinnati and contaminates his family unknowingly. The family before knowing they were infected innocently goes to Kroger and bam! the spread continues.

@erc, you aren't changing your mind. I'm not changing mine. We are at an impasse.

 

[choirfarm]

Full quarantine is trying to stop a disease, not slow it. The experts originally told us that eliminating large gatherings and social distancing would be enough to flatten the curve. Now there are voices saying we need to shoot anyone who tries to leave their house to flatten the curve. Where is the science?

Oh my goodness, no. Good grief you are exaggerating. People just need to do what the government is asking them to do, which many are not. The problem is that since there is a 2 week window of transmission, what we tell people to do today, we will not see results until 2 weeks from now. That makes this thing really hard. We would have to see most people only doing what is essential to see a flattening of the curve. You are twisting our words. We don't want to shoot people. We just do not want to see thousands of people on the beach right next to each other. Just common sense.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think that the US has done early intervention. We have an extremely low number of those supposedly infected for our population. I know the media loves to make things bigger and badder then they are. But truly look at the numbers. They are extremely low in this country.

Because of the lack of testing at the beginning, the numbers are skewed. As more testing is done, I totally expect a large increase in the count of how many have contracted the disease. That doesn't mean they are "new" cases (ie: 5000 people caught it in the last week) as much as they probably had it last week but couldn't be tested.

Italy has more hospital beds per 1000 people than the US. Both China and South Korea have way more. People are about to learn that while we have the most expensive health care in the world, we don't have the greatest health care in the world.

That doesn't invalidate my point. Even with the identical number of infections between the two countries, the % of the population with the disease (and therefore the number requiring beds) will be lower in the US. 300 million in the US. 60 million in Italy. So we should end up with five times as many cases (all other factors being equal, which they're not) if "we are Italy". Maybe we will, but I don't think it will happen as quickly as it did in Italy. Just my opinion.