What is going on with Disney parks?

[Heather07438]

Yes to most of that, but I don’t agree with the line where APs don’t break even for 98% of people.

DH and I paid I think $20 ish less for our APs (with the increase) than we would have for hoppers for our two trips. That’s forgetting pictures, discounts, etc. Locals have to be breaking even if they go somewhat frequently. People taking at least 2 trips have to be pretty close to break even even with shorter trips with how front loaded tickets are.

The APs are very expensive, but the regular tickets are too.

For us, the savings doesn't cover the risk if for some reason we were unable to do the second trip to break even. We usually book WDW packages, so if Trip 2 needed to be cancelled or moved we wouldn't lose that money as we would with AP.

We always buy Memory Maker, that's a big savings with AP but still not enough for us to commit to at least 2 visits per year. For now we plan to revisit WDW once every 14-18 months so we still have some travel budget left to do other destinations too.

In 2018 we bought APs and they were wonderful at the $850 price. It's just too risky for us to shell out over $1100 each now. It definitely made us rethink trip frequency.

(I should've been more specific about 98% not breaking even, it's for people who go often enough to consider APs not just those who actually buy AP.)

 

[Searc]

I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything but something that has me making fewer trips are the guests. People have lost self awareness. They walk across you with their face in the phone or stopping in the middle of a walkway instead of getting off to the side. It has become stressful just walking. You cant go from one location to another without making 20 sudden stops.

I remark about people's lack of self-awareness every. single. trip.

 

[Brianstl]

This new drop off policy has the potential to be Disney’s biggest self inflicted wound ever. If they don’t change the ecv part of it, there will be certain people that will never go back to Disney again.

The number of people that have a parent, grandparent or other family member with a mobility issue is sky high. Plus a large number of those people are the ones who are paying for the family trip or the ones that own the DVC. The people who fall into that category and their family members won’t tolerate themselves/their loved one being extremely inconvenienced or priced gouged by a new Disney rental system.

This isn’t just fire Disney is playing with. It’s a bomb. This shows a complete disconnect from reality. This isn’t jacking up the price of a soda. This is dumping dirt on people with a disability and their loved ones.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

This new drop off policy has the potential to be Disney’s biggest self inflicted wound ever. If they don’t change the ecv part of it, there will be certain people that will never go back to Disney again.

The number of people that have a parent, grandparent or other family member with a mobility issue is sky high. Plus a large number of those people are the ones who are paying for the family trip or the ones that own the DVC. The people who fall into that category and their family members won’t tolerate themselves/their loved one being extremely inconvenienced or priced gouged by a new Disney rental system.

This isn’t just fire Disney is playing with. It’s a bomb. This shows a complete disconnect from reality. This isn’t jacking up the price of a soda. This is dumping dirt on people with a disability and their loved ones.

They’re probably assuming like with 99% of negative changes made, there will be initial backlash but people will get over it and keep coming because Disney.

Each change is someone’s breaking point, but most adjust. So far.

 

[Brianstl]

They’re probably assuming like with 99% of negative changes made, there will be initial backlash but people will get over it and keep coming because Disney.

Each change is someone’s breaking point, but most adjust. So far.

I don’t think Disney is prepared for the backlash they are going to receive on this. It has been my observation that people normally don’t move on when you start rolling back things that make it easier and cheaper for people with a disability to enjoy their lives.

 

[Lightsoutx12]

A little late here and I am sure most have mentioned, but for Disneyland their big issue was all of the blocking of AP Guests. I would think they would have removed those by now, but I am sure Disney, being Disney they are formulating something to being attendance back.

 

[themommy]

This new drop off policy has the potential to be Disney’s biggest self inflicted wound ever. If they don’t change the ecv part of it, there will be certain people that will never go back to Disney again.

The number of people that have a parent, grandparent or other family member with a mobility issue is sky high. Plus a large number of those people are the ones who are paying for the family trip or the ones that own the DVC. The people who fall into that category and their family members won’t tolerate themselves/their loved one being extremely inconvenienced or priced gouged by a new Disney rental system.

This isn’t just fire Disney is playing with. It’s a bomb. This shows a complete disconnect from reality. This isn’t jacking up the price of a soda. This is dumping dirt on people with a disability and their loved ones.

I guess I missed iIt. What new policy?

 

[manning]

Lots of people have made some really great points in here, particularly in regards to the very recent attendance issues and reasons for that, so I won’t bother repeating.

I’ve long thought that Disney is playing a dangerous game and possibly eroding at the goodwill, loyalty, and emotional connection they’ve built over decades which is IMO the real driver for people to visit the parks. Not new attractions, franchise acquisitions, etc. I think if there are truly attendance issues that will last it’s because in the last 10 years they’ve shifted from the long term game to the short term game. I think now more than ever they are living up to the negative ideas people have surrounding Disney, expensive, crowded, and too much work.

I think it has snowballed for years, starting with the time ADRs and therefore advanced planning became a necessity. Prices have gone through the roof, detailed advanced planning is at the very least beneficial if not necessary, tons of upcharge possibilities where there weren’t before, and many cuts that may not be noticeable to infrequent guests but still detract from that overall feel of the parks.

Personally, I don’t know if we have a breaking point if I’m being honest. We would push our trips further and further apart until it became completely out of our reach. We would cut things we don’t find necessary for a good WDW trip, A non financial breaking point for me could likely be if/when Disney changes the fundamentals of park touring by charging for FP. That could very possibly be my “parking fee” pushing me over the edge on principle alone.

"they’ve shifted from the long term game to the short term game"

This is what investors expect.
this reminds me of 'sunbeam' and 'wahl' They basically for the most part were (maybe still are) competitors.
Sometime back sun beam had to file chapter 11, Wahl didn't. Wahl was asked why they didn't have to. The owner said 'they are a private company and don't have worry about satisfying stock holder. we put our profits back into the company and able to think long term

 

[LILJAN59]

I really think this is a fascinating topic. Americans are traveling a lot right now, but for some reason Disney attendance is suddenly down. I really do think it comes down to Disney finally pricing too many people out. I work with kids, and it's amazing how many families I have talked to in the last year who say they wanted to take a trip to Disney, but couldn't because of "how expensive it is now." Let's be honest, so many people think you can just get more bang for your buck going somewhere else. My wife and I are going to Disney in January. No lie...it's about the same price as a vacation in Hawaii. I priced it out and everything. I think the end result is that Disney World is now a vacation destination that primarily caters to the upper-middle and above. Don't agree? Just look at SWGE.

I agree it’s just too expensive!
We’re going down, DVC members for 6 nites in October probably banking points and holding off on going down until they stop charging for everything

They have to come to their senses 74$ to get to the parks after 12 noon all the extra hours for this or that!
More forcesrly entry with breakfast cmon this is just insane!
Why not a base ticket of 75$ a day with multi day discounts
Sky high prices aren’t working! Walt is turning over in his grave! Your average middle class family cannot even afford the all star resorts and the food prices are way too high plus always rising admission prices!
Give it a rest make it affordable!!!!

 

[maranara]

Just finally made it through all 20(!) pages of comments. I think it was mentioned once but having a 10 year old classified as an adult is a huge issue for families. I will tell you, as the mom of a 10 year old, Star Wars is HUGELY popular in my daughter's age group. And 10-12 is a PRIME age to go and experience something like Galaxy's Edge. But it's hard for families to justify paying for their 10-12 year olds as adults. I mean, I'm "lucky" that my 10 year old eats like a teenage boy, but I know that we have friends who are skipping Disney because they can't justify paying adult prices for their kid to eat 1 chicken finger and a handful of french fries. Add to that the whole "$5 for a soda that costs Disney 5 cents" thing and I know that it's keeping families like mine away. (Side note: I will never understand why they don't sell refillable cups in the parks. My family would happily buy 3 $20 refillable cups but now just gets one or two sodas for the entire week...)

I also feel the comment about fellow guests. It's not just people with their noses in their screens the whole time, though that drives me UP THE WALL. Why are you paying thousands of dollars to watch every show and ride through your phone screen?!? It's also the people who just paid thousands of dollars for their vacations so they feel ENTITLED to their slice of the magic. I sort of get it - we've been saving up for our January trip for a couple of years now, and I want my kid to have the best trip ever. But it's not that hard to be considerate to others...we ALL paid thousands of dollars - wait your turn and think about those around you.

 

[Tink-osophy]

"they’ve shifted from the long term game to the short term game"

...

The owner said 'they are a private company and don't have worry about satisfying stock holder. we put our profits back into the company and able to think long term

Nothing to add, really! This says it all. The weight of priority.

...We ALL paid thousands of dollars - wait your turn and think about those around you.

EXACTLY!

I wish Disney empowered their CMs to protect and promote the experiences of all the rule-keeping, considerate "Guests" (i.e. enabled them to have the experience Walt intended).

When it comes to entitled, inconsiderate behaviour (line-cutting, view-blocking, flash photography on rides etc.) Disney has to prioritize one group or the other and by letting selfish behavior slide - they're, effectively, choosing those people and letting down everyone else. It may not be easy to police, but it is possible. They'd probably need to employ a few more CMs, though!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

(Side note: I will never understand why they don't sell refillable cups in the parks. My family would happily buy 3 $20 refillable cups but now just gets one or two sodas for the entire week...)

Universal has this.

 

[Alynw]

I'm not disagreeing that people are saying it's underperforming. I'm asking the epistemology of how we've arrived at that conclusion and that's become the narrative? What makes it a success or doesn't it? Does it need to be 12hrs daily of people soup to be a success? 180m wait time for MFSR? What?

Between the 3hr morning window for onsite guests and the lack of FPs, they've made conscious choices that seem to disperse the crowd well. It feels weird that our armchair discussions seem to overlook that, because if those measures are doing their job, it would make attendance seem less. Mind you I don't have the actual figures.

But, more importantly, you really need to watch Solo. That was a damn good addition to Star Wars, right up there with Rogue One in my book.

How do u figure the crowd measures Disney put in place are working? The fact is, there not in place and the reason there not is because it's not needed because attendance is so slow. Nobody is claiming failure based off MDE wait times, its being based off overall attendance and lack thereof. Disney implemented the 4hr blocks and group loading to help with anticipated large crowds and long wait times but the fact is, it just didn't happen. The reason there isn't any long wait times isn't because there crowd control plan is working so great, the plan isn't even being used anymore, the gates are wide open and the land and ride are open for walk in, there isn't any waits because there isn't any crowds, people are just not going to it as expected. I called this a year ago when everyone was talking about how long lines would be. Everything star wars is just way over saturated. Star wars has it's own massive gang base but it's not Disney related, there is nothing about star wars that remotely feels Disney. Not to mention it's not for kids, the star war fan base is older generation, little kids just don't get it and there nothing appealing to little ones. My buddy just got back from there last week and said swge was absolutely amazing to look at but outside of the amazing detail, the actual park was boring and was definitely for adults or older kids/teens. You can make a $200 light saver with advanced electronics which is not a toy and something a little kid can't even play with. No parent going to spend $200 on an advanced electronics just to get a 4yr old to smash in 10min. I don't think anyone is downing the park itself and all the amazing detail, I mean there is no doubt one of the most immersabl lands but they most definitely failed with connecting with the Disney fans and even after ROR, this land will never see attendance like Pandora or even Toy Story for that matter.

 

[mshanson3121]

Just finally made it through all 20(!) pages of comments. I think it was mentioned once but having a 10 year old classified as an adult is a huge issue for families. I will tell you, as the mom of a 10 year old, Star Wars is HUGELY popular in my daughter's age group. And 10-12 is a PRIME age to go and experience something like Galaxy's Edge. But it's hard for families to justify paying for their 10-12 year olds as adults. I mean, I'm "lucky" that my 10 year old eats like a teenage boy, but I know that we have friends who are skipping Disney because they can't justify paying adult prices for their kid to eat 1 chicken finger and a handful of french fries. Add to that the whole "$5 for a soda that costs Disney 5 cents" thing and I know that it's keeping families like mine away.

Yup. Our daughter turns 10 next year. She is the size of a 6 year old and eats like a bird due to her health issues. It really sucks that we're going to have to pay adult prices for her to eat a few tbsp of food.

 

[FCDub]

I agree it’s just too expensive!
We’re going down, DVC members for 6 nites in October probably banking points and holding off on going down until they stop charging for everything

They have to come to their senses 74$ to get to the parks after 12 noon all the extra hours for this or that!
More forcesrly entry with breakfast cmon this is just insane!
Why not a base ticket of 75$ a day with multi day discounts
Sky high prices aren’t working! Walt is turning over in his grave! Your average middle class family cannot even afford the all star resorts and the food prices are way too high plus always rising admission prices!
Give it a rest make it affordable!!!!

“Affordable” means many things to many different people. And regardless of whatever magical pixie dust people want to push, Disney has NEVER been an egalitarian operation. Tickets books in the old days – couldn’t afford more tickets? Have fun just walking around. A Disney trip is not a god-given Western civilization right. I don’t feel bad for people who can’t afford a Disney trip, just like I don’t expect anyone to feel bad that I can’t afford a Maserati.

I can’t roll my eyes any more over the “Walt would be so sad” stuff. It’s the least effective talking point that regularly gets used.

 

[Jake]

To start I am not a big star war person. I am not a big any movie person. But the new star wars attraction. It seams in order to really into the new star wars part of the park, you have to spend $150 to build a droid, $250 to build a lightsaber, get two $15 drinks, $9 blue milk , $9 pop corn. And some $16 food
That $450 times a family of four that $1800 in a few hours,
That more than a week at the all stars. Who can afford that type of money? If you do it once will you do it again?
Disney is just out yo get everybody $ out of you it can.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Yup. Our daughter turns 10 next year. She is the size of a 6 year old and eats like a bird due to her health issues. It really sucks that we're going to have to pay adult prices for her to eat a few tbsp of food.

You don't HAVE to pay for adult meals. I order off the kids menu all the time. If you mean at buffets, then yes, that does suck. We rarely do buffets, because none of us can eat enough to justify the price.

 

[mshanson3121]

You don't HAVE to pay for adult meals. I order off the kids menu all the time. If you mean at buffets, then yes, that does suck. We rarely do buffets, because none of us can eat enough to justify the price.

Yeah I meant for the character meals etc... Not that we do many of those anyways, but definitely less now if we go back.

 

[Helvetica]

I'm late, but I think that there is a whole lot of stuff going on. There's no one thing to account for everything...

Terrible Galaxy's Edge Marketing
Instead of saying how cool Galaxy's Edge is going to be and how much fun you're going to have, the messaging has been how much it's going to suck and how much you're going to spend. No one wants to hear about 4 hour lines, shoulder to shoulder traffic, $75 beers or $200 glow sticks. I think the messaging on Galaxy's Edge was all wrong and it's scared a lot of people away.

Terrible Galaxy's Edge Timing
There may have been people who were planning on going when Galaxy's Edge first opened, but there were also people like me who planned on getting one last trip in before it opened. By opening it up early, you screwed with a lot of people's plans and there were probably a lot of people who cancelled all together. Thankfully, I didn't and the expected madness did not ensue, but I can't say that's the same for everyone.

Galaxy's Edge Timeline
Star Wars is a kids movie about space wizards and puppets. The kids who are now adults grew up with the Original Trilogy or the Prequel Trilogy. By overly focusing only on the Sequels, you're not catering enough to the adults. I love Hondo, but I doubt most casual Star Wars fans have even heard of him. This is a theme park universe, it doesn't really have to fit into any timeline. Everyone knows Yoda and Darth Vader, but they're nowhere to be found. There's no reason why Yoda, Rey, Ashoka, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, BB-8, HK-47 and everyone else can hang out at Star Wars Land.

Shanghai Disneyland / International Competition
They opened with 5.6 Million visitors in 2016 and they're at 11.8 Million in 2018. They could surpass Epcot in 2019. Chimelong Ocean Kingdom also opened in China in 2014 and they're already at 10.8 million visitors. They could very well surpass Hollywood Studios in 2019. You got a lot of international parks that are stepping up their game, so if you live in that part of the world, why would you make the trip? The strong US Dollar is also making it more expensive for international visitors even without a price increase.

Domestic Competition
By all indications, Universal has really stepped up their game. Regional parks have stepped up their game too. Regional parks especially have much more reasonable prices and the quick service food is better for less money. A season pass to a place like Silver Dollar City is $115. They have free parking. They have pretty good pizzas for less than $10. It's not just theme parks either, there are probably more choices for your entertainment dollar than ever before.

Potential Culture Shift
What was important to one generation isn't necessarily important to the next. For example, you used to see crowded sporting events, but now you're seeing lots of empty seats everywhere. NFL, NHL, MLB, WWE and MLS are all having problems. We could be something similar here. Perhaps people are more inclined to go different places, maybe somewhere they've never been before as opposed to going to Disney World year after year. There are lots of places to go, lots of things to see, so why not?

There's also the fact that we're seeing an aging population and people having less kids. Especially for those with higher levels of income.

The Recession
The recession is coming or at least the fear of an impending recession is very real. When that happens, people are less likely to spend money on vacations, especially expensive vacations like Disney World. It's also not just Disney that's increasing their prices, but it seems like everything is more expensive nowadays.

Increased Prices, Decreased Services
People don't like paying more for less and everyone has a breaking point. The prices are going up on absolutely everything and they're cutting everything. When people pay significantly more, they expect more. Instead, they're getting less. That's a major turn off.

Increased Crowds, Hitting Capacity, Not Keeping Up with Demand
Magic Kingdom went from 15.4 Million in 2000 to 20.86 million in 2018. Disney was pretty lazy during that time. They should have been adding lots of new rides all the time for all of those people to go to.

It's Complicated
Fast Pass Plus, Disney Dining Plan, Disney Deluxe Dining Plan, Minnie Vans, Disney's Magical Express, Disney's Genie, New Ticket Structure... Lots of their new stuff is nice. I especially love Disney's Magical Express and Fast Passes, but by making it more and more complicated, they're turning it into work for a lot of people. Not everyone likes to plan 180 days out for their advanced dining reservations or 60 days for Fast Passes or anything else. For a lot of people, they just want to show up and have a great time. If you just show up with no planning, you're going to have a bad time. That's a problem.

Disney World's New Reputation
When they first started raising prices, the feeling was that their product was undervalued and that Disney World was special. I don't think they have that same reputation anymore and I think we're starting to see that here. I think their new reputation is that a Disney vacation is expensive, it's overly complicated, it's crowded, it's hot, it's not special, and everything in the parks is overpriced. I think for a lot of people the magic is gone or at least greatly lessened and that's a problem. Especially at these prices.

 

[focusondisney]

Yeah I meant for the character meals etc... Not that we do many of those anyways, but definitely less now if we go back.

Character meals need to be thought of as more than a meal, IMHO. My DH doesn’t like buffets at all. He doesn’t like any of the typical meats offered. He’ll usually eat salad, some veggies & maybe a pasta if he likes what’s there. But once in awhile we do a buffet for the experience & because I like them. But we never get “our moneys worth” for what he eats. I think that applies to many other people too. But there are 10 year old boys who can pack away more than I can. Disney has to have a cut off somewhere. I try to think of it as an experience more than a meal.