We are back and angry about Disney

[davewasbaloo]

Defenders of mediocrity often are the ones that do not realise that eventually standards can fall so far, eventually something can be a shadow of it's former selves or the complacency can run to something going out of business. Who would have thought it would happen to Woolworth's or GM.

I have been going to Disney parks for over 34 years, around the globe, and I have literly studied Walt and his ethos. And the current management at DLP and WDW are not adhering to their own standards.

Sorry pollyanna's, but defending things like standard closing is just blind. It directly leads to higher crowds and a perceived additional cost of time (and therefore money) for guests.

Walt himself used to talk about if the park is open, everything in it should be open (unless under maintanence). The comparison to Butlins is apt, as Butlins tries to be more like Disney, Disney is not content to coast on it's brand.

Not the company I fell in love with or have obsessed about my whole life.

 

[ScottishThistle]

I have been going to Disney parks for over 34 years, around the globe, and I have literly studied Walt and his ethos. And the current management at DLP and WDW are not adhering to their own standards.

Sorry pollyanna's, but defending things like standard closing is just blind. It directly leads to higher crowds and a perceived additional cost of time (and therefore money) for guests.

Not the company I fell in love with or have obsessed about my whole life.

But maybe that's the difference between people like you and me. Disney parks and their ethos isn't something I study. I'm not in love with Disney parks or have spent my life obsessed by them. For me and my family, our few trips to DLP every year are nothing more than a break from the ordinary. Somewhere that my kids go to and spend every minute living THEIR dream. They don't care if there aren't chocolates on the pillows or if a burger is a few Euros more. They don't care if a ride opens for a few hours less one day. All they - and we - care about is getting away, having fun and taking Disney as nothing more than a fun, magical resort where they can let their imagination run free and form memories that they'll have forever.

And I'd hazard a guess that's how most people see DLP. Most of us don't spend our lives studying all things Disney and comparing every detail in every park. If you do that then fine, and I can understand that any slipping of standards is going to more noticable to someone who looks for them but the average family don't go looking for problems. They tend to leave them behind as they lock their front door and spend a few days in a resort that allows them that much needed escape from reality.

I think calling people like myself, "Pollyannas" is a bit harsh and uncalled for. As I've said, for most of us, going to DLP is just a short break, not a way of life. If I ever feel that the standards slip below the acceptable, I'll simply take my children and my money elsewhere but in the meantime "normal" guests like myself shouldn't be put discouraged or worried about visiting by those who go with a very different outlook and purpose.

 

[thelittlemermaid83]

But maybe that's the difference between people like you and me. Disney parks and their ethos isn't something I study. I'm not in love with Disney parks or have spent my life obsessed by them. For me and my family, our few trips to DLP every year are nothing more than a break from the ordinary. Somewhere that my kids go to and spend every minute living THEIR dream. They don't care if there aren't chocolates on the pillows or if a burger is a few Euros more. They don't care if a ride opens for a few hours less one day. All they - and we - care about is getting away, having fun and taking Disney as nothing more than a fun, magical resort where they can let their imagination run free and form memories that they'll have forever.

And I'd hazard a guess that's how most people see DLP. Most of us don't spend our lives studying all things Disney and comparing every detail in every park. If you do that then fine, and I can understand that any slipping of standards is going to more noticable to someone who looks for them but the average family don't go looking for problems. They tend to leave them behind as they lock their front door and spend a few days in a resort that allows them that much needed escape from reality.

I think calling people like myself, "Pollyannas" is a bit harsh and uncalled for. As I've said, for most of us, going to DLP is just a short break, not a way of life. If I ever feel that the standards slip below the acceptable, I'll simply take my children and my money elsewhere but in the meantime "normal" guests like myself shouldn't be put discouraged or worried about visiting by those who go with a very different outlook and purpose.

I could not of said that better myself.

 

[daiseyirl]

But maybe that's the difference between people like you and me. Disney parks and their ethos isn't something I study. I'm not in love with Disney parks or have spent my life obsessed by them. For me and my family, our few trips to DLP every year are nothing more than a break from the ordinary. Somewhere that my kids go to and spend every minute living THEIR dream. They don't care if there aren't chocolates on the pillows or if a burger is a few Euros more. They don't care if a ride opens for a few hours less one day. All they - and we - care about is getting away, having fun and taking Disney as nothing more than a fun, magical resort where they can let their imagination run free and form memories that they'll have forever.

And I'd hazard a guess that's how most people see DLP. Most of us don't spend our lives studying all things Disney and comparing every detail in every park. If you do that then fine, and I can understand that any slipping of standards is going to more noticable to someone who looks for them but the average family don't go looking for problems. They tend to leave them behind as they lock their front door and spend a few days in a resort that allows them that much needed escape from reality.

I think calling people like myself, "Pollyannas" is a bit harsh and uncalled for. As I've said, for most of us, going to DLP is just a short break, not a way of life. If I ever feel that the standards slip below the acceptable, I'll simply take my children and my money elsewhere but in the meantime "normal" guests like myself shouldn't be put discouraged or worried about visiting by those who go with a very different outlook and purpose.

exactly!!!, we just back yesterday and had a fantastic time, yes they were staggered opening times but the only one that annoyed me was casey junior as it was just closed on the tue and remained closed for the rest of the week. expect cruch coaster which we qued 50mins and dumbo which was 90min on wed morn at 9.15 only, everything else was under 20min wait. most were 5min or walk on. doe autopeia was constantly 45mins. im not a disney lover i only go because my kids luv it and any friends/family i know go for the same reason for the kids. i stayed in the santa fe b4 its fine basic but clean not 4star but grand for a short disney stay. my 2 think its magical and as long as they remain to think it is we will go.

 

[minnie_x]

All they - and we - care about is getting away, having fun and taking Disney as nothing more than a fun, magical resort where they can let their imagination run free and form memories that they'll have forever.

exactly....my children know how lucky they are to go to disneyland even as a one off. most of their friends have never been. paying a few euro's more, not been able to get on one of two rides due to maintenance, or the food not been upto gordon ramsey quality doesn't stop them from gaining childhood memories they'll have forever. i've said in a previous post, my daughter couldn't eat in cafe mickey as she was so excited at seeing minnie ( i was quite worried about her tbh lol ) so the food isn't an issue for us. it was even more magical that we could have ever have imagined.

 

[davewasbaloo]

But the reason disney parks have endured for 54 years as an international phenomina is they are more than just a fun place for kids. They were for at least the first 45-50 years. The reason DLP is so gorgeous compared to the others is because they wanted to really blow people away. But let's put it this way. Disney parks used to be like a 5 star experience, now they have the scenery of a 5 star, but they seem to aim at a 3 star these days. And most apologists seem content with 2. That's frankly not good enough. They used to command the rates because they offered so much more. Now, they are still better than most of the competition, but no where near as much as they were.

DLP is not Alton Towers, or Thomas the Tank land, and nor should it ever be.

 

[ScottishThistle]

But let's put it this way. Disney parks used to be like a 5 star experience, now they have the scenery of a 5 star, but they seem to aim at a 3 star these days. And most apologists seem content with 2.

Again, I think you're being pretty offensive. Just because a great number of people are happy with Disneyland Paris as it is doesn't make them apologists. You seem to have the idea that your opinion and your standards are far more superior and worth more than anyone else's because you've been going to Disney parks for 34 years. It's obvious that you're not happy with what Disney have to offer at the moment and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion. However, plenty of people ARE happy with it as it is now - not having had the lifetime of study and obesssion you have - and to call those people names such as "apologists" and "Pollyannas" is pretty uncalled for. As I said in my earlier post, someone like yourself who does spend so much of their life focused on Disney obviously has a different experience and looks for different things than most of us who just go for a short break, do. Don't get me wrong, I don't look through rosy Disney tinted glasses and think that everything is perfect but I just can't get my knickers in a twist with some prices going up and having to survive without chocolate on my pillows. They're not the kind of thing that spoils the Disney experience for your average family visiting DLP.

DLP is not Alton Towers, or Thomas the Tank land, and nor should it ever be.

No it's not and that's precisely why I go and why I will continue to go. Just because some of us are predominately happy with what it has to offer doesn't mean that we're all naive and of the lesser intelligence you seem to think. It doesn't mean that we're happy to accept poor standards because we don't think it does have poor standards. Not all of us are candidates to win Mastermind with the history of Disney parks as our chosen subject. Most of us are families and everyday people who enjoy - and have the right to enjoy without people telling us otherwise or calling us names - what Disneyland Paris has to offer.

 

[lilacgems23]

Oh dear this post has caused quite a stir

Ive only been to DLP twice, stayed onsite (well partner hotel) once and was perfectly happy with the level of service I received. I'm not concerned with the santa fe being messy / poor service as not staying there I am concerned that maybe some of the ride closures may interfere with us as when we went last time, got to Alice in wonderland and it was closed which upset DD deeply. Also worried about the level of service in the park may have dropped but reading other trip reports this isn't the norm. As for the menus it does make it feel more "special" if its more than just a paper leaflet

 

[thelittlemermaid83]

. Not all of us are candidates to win Mastermind with the history of Disney parks as our chosen subject. Most of us are families and everyday people who enjoy - and have the right to enjoy without people telling us otherwise or calling us names - what Disneyland Paris has to offer.

 

[daiseyirl]

Again, I think you're being pretty offensive. Just because a great number of people are happy with Disneyland Paris as it is doesn't make them apologists. You seem to have the idea that your opinion and your standards are far more superior and worth more than anyone else's because you've been going to Disney parks for 34 years. It's obvious that you're not happy with what Disney have to offer at the moment and you're perfectly entitled to that opinion. However, plenty of people ARE happy with it as it is now - not having had the lifetime of study and obesssion you have - and to call those people names such as "apologists" and "Pollyannas" is pretty uncalled for. As I said in my earlier post, someone like yourself who does spend so much of their life focused on Disney obviously has a different experience and looks for different things than most of us who just go for a short break, do. Don't get me wrong, I don't look through rosy Disney tinted glasses and think that everything is perfect but I just can't get my knickers in a twist with some prices going up and having to survive without chocolate on my pillows. They're not the kind of thing that spoils the Disney experience for your average family visiting DLP.



No it's not and that's precisely why I go and why I will continue to go. Just because some of us are predominately happy with what it has to offer doesn't mean that we're all naive and of the lesser intelligence you seem to think. It doesn't mean that we're happy to accept poor standards because we don't think it does have poor standards. Not all of us are candidates to win Mastermind with the history of Disney parks as our chosen subject. Most of us are families and everyday people who enjoy - and have the right to enjoy without people telling us otherwise or calling us names - what Disneyland Paris has to offer.

well said, i do believe that most of the visitors go for their children for me personel disney is just for kids .but i know some adults are disney obessesd and maybe your not getting as much as your use to from ur visits and thats a real pity but for the average family u get every thing u need from a disney trip. we only go for 4 nights and to be honest the food prices arent really a that big a deal as we're their for such a short period, we were their in january aswell and i honestly didnt notice a diffrence in food prices. as for the staggered opening times they really arent that big a deal after your first day u know the times and its fine (except we missed out on casey junior but the kids werent bothered and i got over it) its didnt cause bigger que times last week anyway and im sure it will be back to normal for summer season. for the average family going over for their kids you will have a fab time and its still as magical and for anyone staying in santa fe its basic but its def not dirty.

 

[hollymattbenmilo]

If Matthew and I were going to pick a holiday to do for 1k.. as a couple... it would prob be cyprus/ greece/ ski holiday or such like. But we are dedicated parents who wouldnt dream of holidays without our children. So DLRP is a wonderful place to take them. The thing about dlrp is that... you get away from reality.. just "being" there... the smells, music, sights are invented with colour and imagination, so children find it so stimulating.

You wont find a 5 year old complaining... because there is no chocolate on their pillow... or any of those things. If disney was to become a 5 star resort.. with 5 star prices... we wouldnt be able to go. If they ahve to cut a few corners to make it "affordable" then I am all for it. As a week at havens... costs about the same as a week at disney... including the flights!

I love it, and i cant wait to get there again. My only complaint would be the smoking.. and my main request would be more fruit available to buy in the park.

I think to suggest people like myself are happy with slipping standards... is missing the point. People like myself... simply are happy that they can (Almost) afford a lovely holiday with their young children somewhere so magical. I am also aware... that what you get for your money in disney.... is ALOT in the eyes of a child.. compared to the cost of a holiday of same price somewhere else.
I am doing my holiday in Feb for under 1k. Staying at sante fe and found some cheap flights... now i know i could ahve done it for even less last year. But when i prices up a holiday in cyprus for us all... i ahd problems getting the flights for that much... then you have all the entertainment issues.... etc etc.

Plus disney.. is in a world of its own, its so magical. i could live there!
We will just be happy to leave the constant hospital appointments behind for a while, the school run and the daily grind of life... and escape to a place where you can skip next to a pink castle to music... can eat popcorn all day guilt free and watch your childrens eyes light up in wonder.

 

[mommy2ash]

well personally i have a two year old but i enjoy the experience as much as she does. i have stayed at the santa fe and its fine, its what you pay for. its definately not dirty. prices go up every year i dont know why people are getting so excited about it now. maybe having such a great deal with the exchange rate gave people an inaccurate view on prices. the auberge was 48 euros two years ago now its sixty this isnt anything new. as for any trip i believe if you think you are getting your moneys worth then go and enjoy it, if not then dont bother.

personally i think i get value for my money so thats where i will be going on my trips and my opinion doesnt count any less than anybody elses. disney obviously do their market research and they are pleasing the masses, they arent going to alienate familys just for the diehards out there

 

[marcus.ka]

Wow what a discussion.

First I want to make some things clear. We had a very good trip. This was not a bad trip.
And I am also not studying Disney.
And the Santa Fe is a nice hotel. But not for this price. We paid 290€ for 2 nights. We would have paid the same for a 4* hotel in Paris. That is my point.
I don’t care about paying more for something but not if it only get’s more expensive and what you get for it in return goes down.
And I also don’t care if I have chocolate on my pillows. But if I pay the horrendous prices of the HNY (or other hotels) than I want to have something for it in return!
The DLH is almost as expensive as the Ritz in Paris. But at the Ritz you are really pampered for your money. But what do you get for your money at the DLH or at the HNY? Both are 4* hotels.

And please don’t get out of sight that not all quests are quest with small children who are willing to pay every price just to see them smile.

I only can sign what Dave said: “Disney parks used to be like a 5 star experience, now they have the scenery of a 5 star, but they seem to aim at a 3 star these days.”

And yes we have a financial crisis but if DLRP continues this way than many quests will not return for more visits as it get’s to expensive. And there is a point were also you can not afford this anymore. And for us this point is now. We are not willing to pay 15€ for a fast food meal or 25€ for a burger, or 290€ for two nights at a 2* hotel.

The fact I love most about DLRP was always that I could forget the world outside. But now this is almost not possible anymore because you can see how everything only becomes more and more expensive and how the standard goes down.

I miss the quality of the old days.

And for a long time I thought I would be the only one who feels that there is nothing to buy anymore in the shops. There were trips when I could have bought the whole Emporium (for myself as adult – remember I still don’t have kids ) but now I almost don’t buy anything.

And one more thing for you to think about: If DLRP does such a great job, and pleases the masses why are they not making profit?

 

[marcus.ka]

I'm not at all worried about our next trip. We were there just a couple of months before Marcus and had a great time with no problems at all so would be astounded if standards had slipped so badly and so rapidly over a matter of 8 weeks.

I'd imagine that the staggered opening of rides won't happen all of the time, probably just at quieter periods. I also wonder if things like the stunt show being cancelled could have been down to the weather, if the rain was so bad.

As long as my room is clean, I don't mind if it's not done twice a day with chocolates on my pillow. As long as my food is good, I don't mind if my menu is on a leaflet, a card menu or even sang to me. I don't mind if a ride opens a couple of hours later on some days - it's just something to do later in the day. Maybe once I've been 18 times, I might find myself looking for problems more but in the meantime I'll just carry on enjoying myself and not allow any minor irritations stop me going back.

I think I have to answer this post separately:

You should not be worried about your trip. You will have a great time – as we had!

But we have also been only a couple of months before and we did notice the big difference!

I also think that the staggered opening times won’t happen all of the times. But since when is June quite? If this continues this way then only July/ August/ 31th October and the two weeks of Christmas and New Year won’t be quiter times anymore. (according to Disney) But how does that fit to the fact that DLRP says they have record attendance?

And the Stunt Show was not just because of the rain canceled. This was planed but not shared beforehand.

Good for you that you don’t mind about the service you get at a certain hotel but I can not imagine that you don’t care about the price you pay for the things that you don’t get.

And also good for you that you don’t care if your menu is on a leaflet but that was one of the highlights for me in the past to have that great menu in my hands and thing about that I am eating at Walt’s. Nowadays I have a better experience at my local Italian restaurant because they don’t have leaflets. I am willing to pay a little bit more for a great atmosphere, but I am afraid what will dissapear next at Walt's. (the nice themed rooms) Will you also not care if this would be the case?

And also good for you if you don’t mind about strange opening times of rides. But I was very sad to learn on our last day that the train will not open again and we can not do a ride around the whole park.

And if you think that all I have listed in my first post are only minor irritations than you are a very good customer for many companies.

 

[hollymattbenmilo]

may i ask.. when you say it cost you that much for two nights... does this also include your tickets to park?
because for me... out hotel costing.. £500 for 5 nights/6 days... includes rooms, breakfest and entrance to park....

if i were to buy tickets seperately.. and stay at a tavel lodge.. would come to more then that.xx

so for me, i guess i see them as really good value, but i undertsand if you already have passport passes into park etc, that the prices are ott... but for people like myself..

2 adults, 2 kids, 5 nights, 6 days, tickets to parks for 6 days and large breakfest ... £500... is about right... obviously, be great to get it for less.....

I am not paying the odds to put smile on my childs face.. i can do that in my own home or on the beach...
I feel I am paying for a budget holiday we will all afford... because i hate places like havens etc... and such a huge waste of money. And cyrus/mexio etc, doesnt have the same excitment that dlrp does! love it!

hope that makes sence....


i guess a better way to put it is....something like

6 day hopper tickets costs.. for us all something in the region of.. umm... £400 ish? ive or take.. 2 adults, 1 child, 1 infant.

so essentially sante fe is costing us... £100 for 5 nights and breakfast!! pretty good deal to me.. hahaha

I dont think standards should drop, and the staggered times sounds daft, your paying for it, so it should be there! But people like myself are not settling for lesser standards as suggested.. simply.. are being able to afford a gorgeous holiday... and are happy about it

 

[marcus.ka]

We paid 290€ for 2 nights at the Santa Fe WITHOUT park tickets. Only the room and breakfast. And that was via oppodo. And if we would have booked this directly with DLRP we would have paid 230€ per night.

In November there were good prices for the Cheyenne at Expedia. And so we paid for one night 90€. This is a good price although I would have also paid 90€ for the Holiday Inn and that is a 4* hotel.
But I will never pay again 290€ for 2 nights only. And that is my point. I don't want to stay people away from this hotel. For me it is still a great Disney Hotel.

 

[dlpSteve]

First of all, thanks to everyone for posting in this thread, I'm finding the posts really interesting to read, from both sides of the discussion.

We've been 9 times in from 2002 - 2007, so yes, we probably are obsessed. Add in the amount of books I've bought, videos I've watched, forums I post on and just time spent talking and thinking about Disneyland Paris and that probably would probably be raised to a definitely.

As much as I do find it sad that people can see a slip in standards and the ride closures are frustrating, I have no doubt in my mind that in the new year we will be booking our first everr trip to Disneyland Paris for Lucas's second birthday. I know he's going to have fun no matter what's open, just being there will be utterly awe-inspiring for him. Denise and I are what you would probably call 'glass half full' people, so our expectations will be met and probably exceeded, no matter what do or don't get to do - we'll make the absolute best of what is on offer.

I'm being optimistic as I usually am and hoping that our 10th visit is as magical as all our previous ones, but who really knows? I hate to add fuel to the alleged complacency but even a 50% Disneyland Paris would still be a better place for us to spend 5 days than anywhere else, so they'd have to go a long way to make us not return!

 

[marcus.ka]

You will definitely have a great trip. And it will always be something special for you.

But I would like to go a little bite away from the "my kids will have fun no matter what".

Because I don't have children. And there was always plenty of adult entertainment too. But this has all disappeared. And that makes me sad.
If I would have children I would also go back this year. But as we are only 2 adults we will not do a second trip this year. (But therefore we will think about a WDW trip, with the hopes of better standards and a better value; and of course more for us adults to explore)

And I am also a very positive and optimistic human beeing. And I am not someone who is seeking for negatives things or things to complain about!

 

[dlpSteve]

I have to say that if we weren't taking Lucas the disappearence of Lion King AND Tarzan would be really disappointing, not that it isn't anyway! We were actually looking forward to taking Lucas to Tarzan so he could bang pots and pans at the front.

As for the Santa Fe - we stayed there in 2005 and it was fine for our purposes, but we just thought it lacked atmosphere, especially compared to the marginally more expensive Cheyenne. It is great fun walking round the Santa Fe grounds and finding UFO related bits and pieces and the bar introduced us to the Disneymania CDs, for which Denise is eternally grateful!

 

[disney_princess_85]

But I would like to go a little bite away from the "my kids will have fun no matter what".

I agree. DBF and I visit DLRP as a young adult couple and we enjoy it very much (as you can see in my sig!). For the most part, we are both extremely happy with the standard of service we receive in the parks and hotels. It can be expensive but we already know this before we go and would not go if we felt it was beyond our budget. Most of the time though, we feel the money is very well-spent (e.g. on meals at Walt's). Yes, there are parts of the parks that need some work- I noticed bits of paint missing here and there, which did dampen my spirit slightly, I have to say. Ultimately though, I turned a blind eye because I'm simply not going to let a bit of wear and tear ruin my holiday. Eventually, I'd hope that these areas of neglect will be addressed, in order to keep the parks looking as they should.