Very restrictive Changes to WDW Annual Passholder Resort Discounts

[Tink10]

BCV23, in all due respect, the reasons that you listed are precisely why the Best Rate program is a good thing....

It levels the playing field tremendously.....Everyone has an equal shot. All AP holders can check rates at any time which gives each AP holder that much more of an opportunity to get the room that they really want.

I regularly check Best rates for people on the Codes Board because it's easy and it's helping someone. I'm not taking up any CM's time & I'm not booking a rooms for them, so what's the harm in looking? In fact, if those people do end up buying AP's and end up booking best rate, then that's great! The more people who book rooms via the BRP, the better shot it has of staying around a very long time.

For those who don't have internet access, then they do have the option of using a travel agent. Under the old AP booking, they were at a major disadvantage because as soon as AP rates were released, the "board" people were on the phone, tying up the lines & snapping up the good rooms. Now, someone who wants to use a travel agent may actually be at an advantage because depending on what kind of a relationship they have with their agent, they could instruct their agent to book their desired roon/resort at the Best Rate as soon as it's available.

The BR program definately prevents abuse because, whether we want to admit it or not, many people abused the system which left fewer rooms for people serious about booking. Now, with the nonrefundable deposit, people need to be sure of their plans.

I'm sorry that you fell into the black hole (I did too for my Oct trip)), but I honestly can't complain, AP holders now have a much better & fair way to book. I also have a Jan ressie booked at BR & I know I got that room at the same discount amount as AP rates, I didn't have to wait on the phone & I didn't have to stress about codes being released.

 

[BCV23]

Tink, I agree with some of your points. I agree that the BPR limits some forms of abuse. It discourages people from booking on speculation or booking mutiple reservations. I imagine both of those practices caused much frustration and cost for WDW.

And it's not as if I don't like the program. I think it is a smart way for WDW to better control the abuse and cut costs. I posted about that when it first came out I think and I still believe it to be a good program but just hope it still works in conjunction with the ability to call in.

I personally prefer to not use travel agaents and like many long time AP holders remember the old days when you couldn't book WDW through travel agencies.

Although I know that you and others are just being kind to check on AP rates, I firmly believe that those rates are meant as a perk to actually being AP holders which usually equates to everyone in the family having APs rather than one person buying an AP to obtain a room discount.

And although many on this board seem to think all AP rates were snagged up right away, that is a DIS myth. One might initially miss out but....

Sorry you are in the Black Hole for October too. But don't give up hope, I say. And again, that was just a personal note not a criticism of the whole program.

Finally, I'm not bashing the BRP as some seem to think. I just hope that BRP and call in for AP rates are not mutually exclusive.

 

[CarolA]

I thought it might prevent abuse when it was first announced but now there are people on the codes board checkingAP rates for those without APs!

To me checking rates really isn't abusing.... I mean it's easier on Disney then if all those folks called and asked. You can't BOOK until you commit to the AP so...... The abuse is not the rate check it's booking without an AP and never buying one. So I don't care if they check, I think it's nice.

 

[Chuck S]

... Under the old AP booking, they were at a major disadvantage because as soon as AP rates were released, the "board" people were on the phone, tying up the lines & snapping up the good rooms. Now, someone who wants to use a travel agent may actually be at an advantage because depending on what kind of a relationship they have with their agent, they could instruct their agent to book their desired roon/resort at the Best Rate as soon as it's available.

I disagree with that statement. I often was able to get great AP rates on our arrival date.

 

[Tink10]

Actually, things worked out pretty good for October....We're staying at the BCV on points & then going over to the Swan for a few nights (Love the beds at the Dolphin, the Swan's have to be pretty good too!)

As far as Best Rate goes, I make no secret about it that I'm a huge supporter of it......(ok, ok, I'm very vocal about it). In the past, I've been caught needing a rate for a particular resort or room & was left empty handed. As I've stated on the codes board, an acquaintance of mine would hold rooms at AP rates and end up cancelling at the last minute. This was a routine for her with every trip that she took to WDW & I found it completely tasteless, unfair and rude.

I completely agree that some sort of accomadations should be made for those AP holders who don't make the 60 day window.....I really think that IF there are any BR rooms left over than they should be opened up to AP holders travelling at last minute.

Since BR has come out, some people seem SO opposed to it & I just don't think that people are giving Disney a fair shake here. Mabye it's because I'm looking at it as an ex CM. When I used to call for the CM resort rates, I was thankful to get anything! I used to call hoping that what I wanted would be available, but never expecting it to be.

Anyway, yes, there are restrictions, but they're by no means as strict as many hotelier's discount rate programs (totally prepaid & totally nonrefundable....Starwood, Wyndham etc). The discounts are good & I know that when I need a room for an upcoming trip, I should be able to leisurely book one, at a discount without having to call at 6:00 in the morning & be on hold for a really long time. That drove me nuts!

 

[BCV23]

To me checking rates really isn't abusing.... I mean it's easier on Disney then if all those folks called and asked. You can't BOOK until you commit to the AP so...... The abuse is not the rate check it's booking without an AP and never buying one. So I don't care if they check, I think it's nice.

It might be easier than if non AP folks were calling but if when calling you needed to have an active AP to book, then only AP holders would be calling for AP rates after a short time...just as it used to be before internet sites. It's not an either/or situation. Furthermore, since as you said one can't book without buying, why not just buy to begin with.

Booking without an AP was a worse abuse but buying only one AP as a room discount card is not what the discount was intended to be.

 

[CarolA]

I disagree with that statement. I often was able to get great AP rates on our arrival date.

I have gotten AP rates a LOT at the last minute. But I do know that on the day they were released there was usually a feeding frenzy on the Resort Board LOL

However, this is one reason I bought DVC.. I really dont' have to worry except for the odd day here and there...

 

[Aneille]

Booking without an AP was a worse abuse but buying only one AP as a room discount card is not what the discount was intended to be.

See I don't see this as abuse at all if you actually purchase the AP. I am not breaking any rules and that is the difference. If Disney said everyone in the room needed to own an AP that is abuse.

I wouldn't buy an AP if I didn't get a room rate because I don't know if I can come back every year so it doesn't make financial sense for me to do so. With an AP rate on a deluxe even for 2 days it did make sense because I usually stayed 10-12 days in WDW when we went. The MYW ticket price at 10 Days is pretty close to an AP anyway, that little bit on the room would sell it. Especially while getting the DDE card.

I am not about to buy one for everyone in my family though since it would be like throwing money away because we didin't know when we would be back. Although this year it would have made sense! We had a surprise trip.

Now that we own DVC we will go more often and are thinking of purchasing AP's for the whole family on our next trip, but we are using 2 years of pts since its a family renunion. So again we need to crunch the numbers or rather the pts this time!

 

[JimMIA]

...buying only one AP as a room discount card is not what the discount was intended to be.

Stopping that practice would be totally unenforceable.

Besides, it would not make sense to buy one AP just to get AP room rates...not when you could only buy one and get BOTH AP room rates and the DDE!

 

[BCV23]

Stopping that practice would be totally unenforceable.

Besides, it would not make sense to buy one AP just to get AP room rates...not when you could only buy one and get BOTH AP room rates and the DDE!

LOL, I agree with you on both points.

 

[BCV23]

See I don't see this as abuse at all if you actually purchase the AP. I am not breaking any rules and that is the difference. If Disney said everyone in the room needed to own an AP that is abuse.

I wouldn't buy an AP if I didn't get a room rate because I don't know if I can come back every year so it doesn't make financial sense for me to do so. With an AP rate on a deluxe even for 2 days it did make sense because I usually stayed 10-12 days in WDW when we went. The MYW ticket price at 10 Days is pretty close to an AP anyway, that little bit on the room would sell it. Especially while getting the DDE card.

I am not about to buy one for everyone in my family though since it would be like throwing money away because we didin't know when we would be back. Although this year it would have made sense! We had a surprise trip.

Now that we own DVC we will go more often and are thinking of purchasing AP's for the whole family on our next trip, but we are using 2 years of pts since its a family renunion. So again we need to crunch the numbers or rather the pts this time!

I agree that you are not personally abusing the rules.

I'm trying to explain how I feel about this without flaming anyone. It is a problem that has arisen since internet sites and now even books encourage people to do just what you did. Would you agree that the AP room discounts were created as a perk for AP holders not as a room discount program? In the good old days , only people who actually had APs called and got AP rates. They bought those APs for unlimited admission and in most families cases, I think they bought them for everyone because they used them for admission. It just wasn't intended as a room discount card. Now the deep discounts that we used to enjoy are a thing of the past especially for deluxe resorts.

But Jim is correct that there is no way to demand much less enforce that.

But why couldn't WDW ask for the AP# to book a room over the phone just as the BPR does for internet bookings?

 

[Tink10]

But why couldn't WDW ask for the AP# to book a room over the phone just as the BPR does for internet bookings?

Because the whole point of the BR program was to put an end to the endless telephone calls and put an end to the unfilled rooms. Both of which equal lost revenue. With Best Rate, it's a win/win situation. The vast majority of AP holders are happy because they get their discounts & Disney is happy because they have reduced lost revenue.

(I'm not trying to sound snotty, so please don't take it that way....Just making a point from a businesses perspective)

 

[Aneille]

I agree that you are not personally abusing the rules.

I'm trying to explain how I feel about this without flaming anyone. It is a problem that has arisen since internet sites and now even books encourage people to do just what you did. Would you agree that the AP room discounts were created as a perk for AP holders not as a room discount program? In the good old days , only people who actually had APs called and got AP rates. They bought those APs for unlimited admission and in most families cases, I think they bought them for everyone because they used them for admission. It just wasn't intended as a room discount card. Now the deep discounts that we used to enjoy are a thing of the past especially for deluxe resorts.

But Jim is correct that there is no way to demand much less enforce that.

But why couldn't WDW ask for the AP# to book a room over the phone just as the BPR does for internet bookings?

Oh geez, I never thought you were flaming anyone much less me directly!

I agree that when AP's probably came out they weren't intended for room discounts only, but they added those perks in. So what they were intended for in the beginning is thrown out the window.

Plus those that purchase the AP aren't just purchasing them for the room discount. I needed the passes too.

Also I am sure Disney hopes that if you own an AP (even if its only 1 person in the family) they will try to fit one more trip in before the year is out so that they feel like they are coming out ahead of Disney. And we all know, no one comes out ahead in the end but Disney!

And I agree with Tink10 on the business prespective. The 2 biggest changes are that you need to book online (decrease call volume) and loss of refund due to cancellation (decrease people booking AP rate rooms all over and then cancelling a week before they leave, thus leaving the rooms empty).

I guess overall I don't mind the BR program although I would be upset if I didn't have the internet (or just wasn't comfortable using it for $$ transactions) and when and if I need a room last minute.

 

[Tink10]

This is a nice discussion....things are much more civil here than on the Codes board....

 

[BCV23]

No, I don't think you're being snotty at all., Tink. I agree that BPR should cut down on needless double bookings and calls. But how would allowing phone bookings and bookings within the 60 days for that matter hurt that cause IF one had to have a valid AP to book? That should cut down on needless calls and empty rooms as well. I'm trying to see it from a business perspective as well.

And I don't know that all the AP holders are happy with the program. I know that I am as long as there is still the flexibility for last minute bookings. We shall see how that pans out.

But I would bet that there are some longtime passholders out there who are used to calling fo a room at an AP discount when they can free up a weekend. If they call and are told too bad we started this new program and you had to book it at 120 (no wait, 60 days) out, I would bet there might be some unhappy AP holders.

 

[BCV23]

I agree that when AP's probably came out they weren't intended for room discounts only, but they added those perks in. So what they were intended for in the beginning is thrown out the window.

Both APs and the room discount have been around for quite sometime. We didn't have our first APs until sometime in the 90s but a woman I taught RE classes with had APs back when they were laminated like drivers licenses with photo id. She knew we went often and encouraged me to do APs and noted the room discounts as a real bonus. I think this was '88 or '89.

 

[goofy4tink]

goofy4tink - you can use the BRP with just your voucher! I booked an AP discounted room with just my DVC -discounted voucher. You don't need an actual AP to use the BRP.

I did have trouble logging in to the passholders' website with just the voucher until I ran across some very helpful info (on MouseSavers) that told me how to do it. Here's the link if you need it:

Changes to WDW AP Resort Discounts

The info you need is in the last bullet near the bottom of the page.

Best wishes -

Thanks!!! Terrific info. That makes things a bit easier.

 

[Tink10]

BCV23, My apologies, I thought that you were referring to phone bookings totally replacing online bookings all the time.....

Anyway, I realize that all of the ap holders aren't happy about BR, but I think a good portion are. There has been so much abuse, just like there is abuse with other discount programs, but I think that AP rates have caused Disney the most problems.

I was a CM for quite awhile and one thing that I can tell you (as I'm sure any other CM's can) is that Disney was pretty obsessive about payroll, particularly overtime. From talking to CRO cm's, it seems that the bulk of their overtime is put in when a code, rate or new promo is released. Best Rate puts an end to a good portion of that overtime.....

I also worked as a res. agent for a large vacation company....think fall fruit....Anyway, while I don't know if Disney works this way, when I worked as an agent, we weren't commissioned, but our performance was directly connected on how many bookings we made & call hold times. I'm pretty sure that Disney also works this way.

I think that Disney assumed that the bulk of the last minute travelers are FL residents, which is why they kept those rates around & I totally agree that some concessions should be made for last minute travelers....I think that down the road, we may see something to accomodate them (probably lifting the 60 day advance reservation window altogether).

Regardless, I really feel that peoples' displeasure with Best Rate will be short lived. People (especially on the codes board & resort board)) don't like change & those who took advantage of the loopholes of "the old way" will, of course, be the most vocal. Eventually, people will realize that if they want the discount on their choice of room/resort, then they'll have to book BR.

 

[JimC]

...It appears that a major benefit to Disney is reduced "unproductive calling volumes". There had to have been thousands of people calling to inquire about AP rates as well as a plethora of multiple bookings that eventually ended up getting cancelled. Kind of hard to know where you stand if a significant percentage of your bookings end up getting cancelled.....

I booked AP codes through a travel agent -- efficient for me and for Disney. I don't see much upside for me in the new program. Give a non-refundable deposit with the hope that a good "public" rate will come along. No thanks. I will still use the travel agent for cash reservations.

Disney could have stopped the abuse by enforcing a current AP upon check-in. It was rarely verified.

You can bet when the next down cycle that a more flexible program will be rolled out. It is all part of the game.

 

[CarolA]

I agree that "abuse" was not as much of a problem as "phatom" reservations. I have personally read over on the Resort boards of folks making three AP rate reservations for the SAME dates and then based on "money" deciding if it was going to be Value, Mod or Deluxe. (You do this by making one in your name, one in spouses name and one in Grandma's name!) This way Disney isn't blocking rooms for folks just "holding" them.

Plus, while most of us buy the AP for the admissions there are folks who buy ONLY for the Discount. So basically they were blocking rooms using an AP rate and "hoping" for a code which meant they could cancel the AP and book the code rate. While you would think this is not a big issue I think it may be. The VOLUME of calls I read about on the DIS alone is scary LOL! This makes it hard for Disney to predict revenue and adjust rates/packages based on expected occupancy.

Now I just hope they allow late bookings. They don't even have to announce them until a few weeks in advance (Heck, why announce them at all???)