Update from DCL

I am not sure about your data. What is your source?
Here is a good article from a medical data analytics company out of Amsterdam. There is also lots of good information on this site.

https://www.elsevier.com/connect/6-of-the-most-common-coronavirus-questions-the-media-is-asking

My quick source is the Johns Hopkins dashboard, which is combining all of the available data sources such as the CDC, WHO, PRC, etc.. (they also have a very convenient github repo, where you can see where the data came from, and have your own csv files to play with the data if you'd like): https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
 
I am not sure about your data. What is your source?
Here is a good article from a medical data analytics company out of Amsterdam. There is also lots of good information on this site.

https://www.elsevier.com/connect/6-of-the-most-common-coronavirus-questions-the-media-is-asking

Even your own source doesn't support your claim that Covid-19 is NOT as severe as the flu. Also, the CDC reports the influenza fatality rate at 0.1% (20x less than your source). Not sure where he is getting that incredibly high influenza fatality number.
 
👍 Thank you for the clarification. I spent a year or so in grad school, working with a group modeling pandemics (my background is in engineering systems risk assessment, and we were applying our systems/engineering risk modeling tools to traditional pandemic modeling techniques). The R0 numbers, and long incubation were always the two biggest factors that drove global spread, and the values being reported for COVID were inline with the high/bad-outcome models we saw. Unfortunately, I must not have gotten my vocabulary completely correct, as the epidemiology research group we were working with always referred to those calculations as "mortality rate" as they would plug directly into what we called "failure rate" parameters in engineering systems.

The difference is the denominator - mortality is overall (so everyone in the area/country/world) whereas case-fatality is just those who have the disease (or an estimate of the number of people with the disease).

People (read media) often use them interchangeably, but they are not the same thing.

Last’s Dictionary is generally considered the “BIble” for definitions. You can find a link here if you’re really interested (though he used death rate rather than mortality rate). Basically, one incorporates your risk of actually getting the disease (mortality rate) and one doesn’t (case-fatality)

https://pestcontrol.ru/assets/files..._edition-oxford_university_press_usa_2000.pdf
 
My quick source is the Johns Hopkins dashboard, which is combining all of the available data sources such as the CDC, WHO, PRC, etc.. (they also have a very convenient github repo, where you can see where the data came from, and have your own csv files to play with the data if you'd like): https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
It is really the flu stats I am thinking about. I think yours are low. Also, you have to consider that the majority of people in Asia who have contracted Coronavirus are not in those numbers. In addition, death rates in the US will be far lower than in Asia.
 


Actually, those are estimates of case-fatality rate, not mortality rate.

It is also my opinion (epidemiologist working at the WHO) that the infected numbers are a severe underestimate. In some ways this is good since it means that the case-fatality rate is lower. In some ways this is bad because having many people with virus who don’t know that they have the virus makes containment much more difficult.

I do agree with you that no data that I have seen suggests that this has a lower case-fatality rate than influenza. It, perhaps, has a lower mortality rate at this point, but only because (at this point) far fewer people have the disease (at least, based on our best estimates).
Completely agree about being underestimated. I believe in the next week or so we will realize it is much more widespread than we think. There are new cases waiting to be confirmed in CA, OR, WA and other states who have not traveled or been in known contact with someone. Also, the guidelines to even test for it from the CDC are quite narrow with only testing people with symptoms who have been to “known” areas or been in contact with someone who has, or testing people admitted to the hospital with SEVERE respiratory symptoms. All of theses things that are being done that concern/scare people have been to contain it. I think it will soon be seen that it is already beyond containment and that it cannot be controlled and will run it’s course and all these “quarantines” will be a thing of the past.
 
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Even your own source doesn't support your claim that Covid-19 is NOT as severe as the flu. Also, the CDC reports the influenza fatality rate at 0.1% (20x less than your source). Not sure where he is getting that incredibly high influenza fatality number.
I do think it could be as severe as the flu— and a flu where the vaccine doesn’t work. But I do not personally worry about the flu. I still vacation when the flu is flaring up. I agree there seems to be a variety of ways to calculate the flu rate. But for me the sum is I put it in a flu/cold category.

Here is another interesting perspective:
https://m.stamfordadvocate.com/opin...navirus-So-far-it-isn-t-that-bad-15093664.php
 
It is really the flu stats I am thinking about. I think yours are low. Also, you have to consider that the majority of people in Asia who have contracted Coronavirus are not in those numbers. In addition, death rates in the US will be far lower than in Asia.

My numbers were coming from the CDC estimated influenza burden tables: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html . If you look at the deaths/symptomatic illness count, you come up with values between 0.1% and 0.2% depending on the year, averaging around 0.14%. And 0.1% to 0.2% case-fatality rates seem to be the consensus I see pretty much across the board.

And I am thinking we've really side-lined this topic.. we've gone far, far away from Updates from DCL.. ;)
 


Got this email as well
My guess is if the situation deteriorates further, if more cases start popping up in the US, especially in FL, DCL will start cancelling cruises.
The next email we get might be announcing a (some) cancelation(s)
I really hope I'm wrong.

Agree. Sailing 9 Mar on the Magic so watching and waiting.
 
Any thoughts on how long Disney might keep these restrictions in place? I know it's all a guessing game, but just wondering what people think. We are booked on the June 13 cruise from Rome, but are planning to fly into Venice June 2 and spend time in Northern Italy prior to the cruise. If these restrictions stay in place, I guess we would need to cancel our flight coming into Venice and change our pre-cruise plans.
 
My quick source is the Johns Hopkins dashboard, which is combining all of the available data sources such as the CDC, WHO, PRC, etc.. (they also have a very convenient github repo, where you can see where the data came from, and have your own csv files to play with the data if you'd like): https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
I do wonder how well the dashboard works, for my country in the list on the left it says 6 cases, while when you click on the country, you see the actual number which is 4 (2 cases, 1 man on his own, and a woman who infected 2 of her family members. Interesting detail, only 1 out of 3 children got the virus from their mother). When I click on Belgium, I get the figures for Thailand.
 
I do wonder how well the dashboard works, for my country in the list on the left it says 6 cases, while when you click on the country, you see the actual number which is 4 (2 cases, 1 man on his own, and a woman who infected 2 of her family members. Interesting detail, only 1 out of 3 children got the virus from their mother). When I click on Belgium, I get the figures for Thailand.

That's weird - I don't have either of those bugs.
 
I do wonder how well the dashboard works, for my country in the list on the left it says 6 cases, while when you click on the country, you see the actual number which is 4 (2 cases, 1 man on his own, and a woman who infected 2 of her family members. Interesting detail, only 1 out of 3 children got the virus from their mother). When I click on Belgium, I get the figures for Thailand.

They update the data a few times per day. I've found that after a data update, sometimes clicking on the individual countries shows old or wrong data until you refresh the whole site.

You can also follow their github link to a repository of CSV files of data.
 
What is interesting, is that the CFR is different in different locations. I suspect that this may be from where the virus was spread. For instance, in South Korea, they state they have 3,150 confirmed cases, but only 17 deaths. That's a CFR rate around .005 (or .5%), whereas in Italy it's been around 3% and China was around 2.3%. It makes me wonder about Italy, since the PM there said "protocol wasn't followed in the initial hospital" if some of those deaths came from that hospital (i.e. - ICU) if a care giver was spreading the virus around the hospital...). Don't think this is the kind of thing you'd want to have recovering from, say, bypass surgery... Don't know for sure, but it could just be that South Korea has a better handle on counting the entire population with the illness. It could also be that the true population numbers are higher in these other locations, but just haven't been tested to be counted. If there are mild cases, my guess is that they are probably not being included in the reported numbers at all...
 
Well that's it for me folks. I understand the precautions and in the end it isn't Disney making the call. I do suspect they would anyway, but it's the Cruise Line Organization setting these precautions. Again precautions understood, but if you don't allow me to tear up a bit then I ask you to think of how you would feel. Anyway, enjoy your cruise and I hope this gets under control for everyone.
 
The Cruise Lines International Association, of which DCL is a member, put out a statement on the 27th which includes guidelines their members (DCL is a member) are required to follow, inclding a "Sample Traveler’s Health Declaration/Questionnaire":

https://cruising.org/news-and-resea...-statement-on-2019-novel-coronavirus-outbreak
Clearly at least some of the wording DCL is using on their screening form is standardized from the CLIA.
 
Well that's it for me folks. I understand the precautions and in the end it isn't Disney making the call. I do suspect they would anyway, but it's the Cruise Line Organization setting these precautions. Again precautions understood, but if you don't allow me to tear up a bit then I ask you to think of how you would feel. Anyway, enjoy your cruise and I hope this gets under control for everyone.

Isn’t DCL refunding your cruise fare? I’d love an excuse for DCL to refund me at this point. Still hoping they will.
 
Well that's it for me folks. I understand the precautions and in the end it isn't Disney making the call. I do suspect they would anyway, but it's the Cruise Line Organization setting these precautions. Again precautions understood, but if you don't allow me to tear up a bit then I ask you to think of how you would feel. Anyway, enjoy your cruise and I hope this gets under control for everyone.
Hugs. I understand.
 
Isn’t DCL refunding your cruise fare? I’d love an excuse for DCL to refund me at this point. Still hoping they will.
Just to give further updates after the last 4 hours on the phone with the airlines, Travelocity (never got through to them after an hour on hold) and DCL. DCL is being the most helpful, accessible and professional with answers. I have not officially received a mail from DCL yet and I found out why. The letters that have been sent out about restricted boarding only apply until the end of March. My cruise being April 20th has not been canceled for me yet. Now I have no hope that it won't roll over to April.... I am realistic about that. I do hope the information I can provide will help others as we all sit and wait with FE gifts packed and prepared, knowing that things aren't looking good.

The good news for me anyway is that I will be eligible for a voucher in the amount I have invested to this point for a future Disney Cruise if I'm not allowed to cruise. That will be determined by Disney in the next few weeks. The sooner the better for me, one way or another. This actually could mean a bigger, better, longer cruise. Wooohooo... sorry need a little smile.
The bad news is the Travel Company and airlines aren't being as cooperative.
 

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