The Vaccine Discussion Thread

[DCLDVC1]

I work in radiology in a Philadelphia hospital. Last week they announced that they are expecting to start administering a vaccine in December. Of course this assumes that they will be FDA approved at the Dec 10 meeting. Initially I was shocked that the hospital is not requiring it like they do for the flu shot. After chatting with our docs they feel it's good to make it voluntary since it hasn't had long term studies done. IIRC, NJ announced that priority will be first given to HCWs, then first responders, then essential workers. This would cover dh and ds23 who are both essential. Ds20 will likely be in with the general population unless factory workers are given any priority. I will be very relieved when my father gets it.

Anyway, this is such great news. I am almost crying with relief that this nightmare might soon have an end in sight.
For now all we can do is hope and pray the FDA has all the evidence they need to give approval.

We already moved our Feb WBPC cruise to 2022 and I don't plan to move it back but we still have a 4 nt quickie booked for May. There is a chance this might happen!
I soooo need a day at CC.

I'm sure the FDA is under IMMENSE political pressure to approve ASAP.

 

[jane01jp]

based on a completely unscientific anecdotal survey of my doctor friends, there are many who are skeptical about the long-term safety.
Though personally, i think they're crazy. This new method is actually much safer than standard vaccines.

It will be interesting to see if the authorities make it mandatory for medical staff here (in Israel).

There is a rollout plan here, so assuming pfizer and moderna are actually approved, we have an idea of when we'll be vaccinated (depending on which group we belong to, e.g. medical staff, high risk, elderly, essential workers, teachers, pregnant women, everyone else. That's in fact the order of priority in the plan here.

I only have one good friend in the medical community in the US. He is a nurse anesthetist and he is generally required to get a flu shot every year, so I would imagine COVID vaccines would be required as a condition for his employment as well.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

based on a completely unscientific anecdotal survey of my doctor friends, there are many who are skeptical about the long-term safety.
Though personally, i think they're crazy. This new method is actually much safer than standard vaccines.

It will be interesting to see if the authorities make it mandatory for medical staff here (in Israel).

There is a rollout plan here, so assuming pfizer and moderna are actually approved, we have an idea of when we'll be vaccinated (depending on which group we belong to, e.g. medical staff, high risk, elderly, essential workers, teachers, pregnant women, everyone else. That's in fact the order of priority in the plan here.

I think it's perfectly natural to feel this way. We don't want the cure to be worse than the disease. The researchers have released the efficacy rates but haven't released the data pertaining to side effects. So they are only telling us half the story and we want all of it. If people get the impression that they're holding back and there's no transparency, then all trust is gone and it will be hard to win people's approval.

My neighbor is a recently retired FDA inspector of medical research and drug manufacturing. Originally a pharmacist, as an inspector he would travel to various hospitals and inspect the methods, record-keeping, consent, etc. used for research. Also he would travel to other countries that manufacture medications available here (often India, Canada and Israel) and inspect their facilities. He is so focused on safety for everything everywhere whether it's him going for a walk with a bright visibility safety vest to how we put our trash out with something protruding out of the top that could injure our trash men. When we were new to the neighborhood it was annoying but now we know him. He has a big heart and really can't help himself; it's just part of who he is and like a switch that can't be turned off, always looking for something unsafe but I digress.
He knows the big wigs of these vaccine companies and is itching to see all the data. He says that is the only way to determine whether it's safe and he will decide then if he will get the vaccine and give his wife and adult children his own stamp of approval. He will let me know.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I'm sure the FDA is under IMMENSE political pressure to approve ASAP.

I agree. It would be a huge letdown to get to this point and be rejected. Not even just political pressure but full world public pressure too. If other countries approve and the FDA doesn't then Americans are the only ones unvaccinated. Travel will still be limited domestically and internationally. So literally all eyes of the world are on them right now.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I only have one good friend in the medical community in the US. He is a nurse anesthetist and he is generally required to get a flu shot every year, so I would imagine COVID vaccines would be required as a condition for his employment as well.

I thought this as well. At first I was shocked that our hospital isn't requiring it but after looking at the big picture and seeing that the flu shot has had long term safety record and the covid vaccine doesn't, I understand why they don't. Maybe this is a regional thing. There have been Philly nurses on strike recently, and this is very heavy in our local news, so the thought of pissing off a lot of nurses right now is not a good idea.

 

[Creido]

When these vaccines are released, they still are experimental. If you take one, you are volunteering to be a guinea pig. I will stay locked down while the rest of you learn the hard way about the side effects. As this is a new approach to vaccines, expect significant side effects.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

When these vaccines are released, they still are experimental. If you take one, you are volunteering to be a guinea pig. I will stay locked down while the rest of you learn the hard way about the side effects. As this is a new approach to vaccines, expect significant side effects.

The new approach is what makes them safer. Instead of giving a weakened, "attuenuated" virus for our immune system to recognize the protein of the virus, the mRNA vaccines only use the genetic material from the spikes, which is the part that allows the virus gain entry into our healthy cells. If the virus can't dig in and penetrate, it will pass through our bodies with other waste material as phlegm, feces, etc. The new vaccine doesn't give our body ALL of the genetic material of the virus, only the part that enables it.
I'm not saying this to convince you to get it. It's your body and you make your own choices, as will everyone but people shouldn't automatically reject it because it's new without even learning about it.
You are correct that it will still be researched for a long time, as it should be. Once it gets approval and people are able to get it, this is Phase 4 trials. This is when we'll learn how long it's effective, how often we need a booster, and if there are any long term side effects. Vaccines vary in this area so while your dog needs a rabies vaccine every year, a tetanus shot last 10 years and polio doesn't require a booster AFAIK. You can always wait 10 years or so and see how it all pans out. Hopefully by then this is all a distant memory.

 

[Intr3pid]

Moderna is reporting 100% efficacy in preventing severe cases of COVID-19:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/30/health/moderna-vaccine-fda-eua-application/index.html
It is also filing for emergency use with the FDA today.

 

[sethschroeder]

I'll be curious to see how long it is actually effective, given the mutations and re-infections that are occurring. Hopefully it is the first step to what I'm sure will be a seasonal vaccination like the flu.

You have doctors worried people won't come back for 2nd doses because of how bad side effects might be. Flu Vaccine hardly has a noticeable side effect and you only get like 50% of the country to take it.

Maybe its different though with other vaccines. I haven't followed it that closely because for all we know 2 or 3 of these vaccines could still end up being duds or less effective.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Moderna is reporting 100% efficacy in preventing severe cases of COVID-19:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/30/health/moderna-vaccine-fda-eua-application/index.html
It is also filing for emergency use with the FDA today.

That "severe" is a dinger, because it suggests that it's not wholly preventative. So the vaccinated subject may still be a spreader.

 

[Intr3pid]

That "severe" is a dinger, because it suggests that it's not wholly preventative. So the vaccinated subject may still be a spreader.

We already know it's not going to prevent 100% of infections - that's the 94.5% number.

The 100% efficacy against severity is arguably more important to cruise ships since the cases of severe symptoms are linked with higher transmission rates, and they require urgent care - including medical transport.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

That "severe" is a dinger, because it suggests that it's not wholly preventative. So the vaccinated subject may still be a spreader.

Yes, but if NO ONE will get a severe case after being vaccinated, that means they wouldn't die or need ICU. That alone will be life altering for HCWs. Also it would be a massive relief for all of my family because my father is high-risk, upper 70s, heart disease and COPD. I would LOVE to stop worrying that my father will catch it and die.

My work (hosp) is saying that even if we get vaccinated, we still need to mask and SD. It will take a long time to see case numbers drop.
I've had the flu despite having a flu shot and I felt crappy but I wasn't "sick-in-bed" kind of sick and it was gone in about 4 days.

 

[Wakey]

That "severe" is a dinger, because it suggests that it's not wholly preventative. So the vaccinated subject may still be a spreader.

No vaccine is 100% effective.

In terms of stoppong spread, they are not sure yet as it was only a side issue in one trial, the Astra Zeneca where they think it did stop a lot of spread. The Pfizer vaccine inventor says he hopes it will cut transmission by at least 50%, but he is estimating at this stage. It is bound to cut transmission though just on common sense- virus being attacked so not replicating and lower shedding, no coughing in most cases etc.

The good news is that it would seem they will all be 90%+ efficacy at stopping infection, and no one at all dies. We could never have hoped for such good results.

Essentially the vaccine means that in the unlikely event you do suffer any symptoms, they will be extremely minor.

The virus would have become endemic in a few years and another common cold type virus anyway, just many deaths in the interim whilst it went through the most susceptible, before coming up against all those who had innate immunity from previous infection with it or other coronavirus and giving them mild symptoms. I’m reading a great book at the moment by an infectious disease expert who basically believes the 4 common cold coronavirus would have hit the human population in a very similar manner originally before becoming endemic and explains how it works.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

My work (hosp) is saying that even if we get vaccinated, we still need to mask and SD. It will take a long time to see case numbers drop.

Yep.

I think everyone hoping that vaccine = everything can be like 2019 again are going to find it not to be the case. I think you will see masks and operational changes even with a vaccine for a long time.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Yep.

I think everyone hoping that vaccine = everything can be like 2019 again are going to find it not to be the case. I think you will see masks and operational changes even with a vaccine for a long time.

Eventual it will but it will take time. Everyone who gets vaccinated will speed up the process of achieving herd immunity, even if imperfect.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Eventual it will but it will take time. Everyone who gets vaccinated will speed up the process of achieving herd immunity, even if imperfect.

I don't see everyone's hoped for "normal cruise protocols" anytime before 2022.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I don't see everyone's hoped for "normal cruise protocols" anytime before 2022.

I agree. Also this is why I'm not sailing the WBPC cruise until it's safe to do so with normalcy. It's a lot of money and I'd rather not spend all that for a lesser experience. This doesn't mean I refuse to cruise in the interim. I wouldn't mind a 3 or 4 nighter with masks/SD, just for a day at CC. It would be a less than normal experience but doesn't cost $10k.

 

[LizzyDragon]

I don't see everyone's hoped for "normal cruise protocols" anytime before 2022.

Agreed. Most articles I've read about the vaccines indicate that there won't be distribution to the general public until Q3 at best (maaaaaybe one or two get in at late Q2). I could see cruises going out maybe starting Q2 (yes, CDC guidelines could let them start sooner, but with the amount of approvals and processes to run through- it's gonna take a couple months at least). And I'm guessing the ones that go will likely have all the restrictions of going to Disney World on land, but with manadatory testing involved too.

I wouldn't expect things like masks/social distancing to go away until probably mid-2022. Hopefully hospitals start seeing a drop in cases (especially ICU ones) by mid-2021 as the most vunerable get vaccinated.

 

[Wakey]

Pfizer vaccine just approved by our regulatory body in the UK with the others coming through shortly. They have been doing rolling assessments of the data as it’s been coming in for speed.
The army are currently turning arenas etc into vaccination centres and the NHS will start giving the jab next week.
Finally we are going to get out of this.
I could almost shed a tear.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I'll pass on the Russian one, thank you.

I wonder how many Russian residents have received this.