The trip is off

[mom2faith]

OK. I did not read all of the posts yet, but I wanted to comment on my first instincts - I totally agree with your DH. I do not know why, but something tells me that your DSS and DSD do not have a full appreciation for time and money. I also get the feeling they are playing both sides here. Now, granted they are 8 and 12, but still, there needs to be boundaries. I see no problem with cancelling the trip and then allowing them to EARN it back.

I think to many of us, myself included, give our children everything and forget to teach them the value of things. I am horrible for this myself, and I think the fact that your DH stood his ground and set a limit is great!! I admire him for it.

I do think that perhaps a deal can be reached where the kids can earn the right/priviledge to the trip back on good behavior. Maybe things like earning monopoly money for chores and good deeds and then if they have enough "money" they can buy the trip back??

Good luck to you!!

Amy

 

[badblackpug]

I may be wrong, but I don't think the OP is expecting the step kids to contribute toward the vacation, I think the expectation is that they will provide their own spending money.

As for the vacation with her daughter, that is a separate vacation. It is being paid for by the OP's sister, the husband is not going, so it probably would not even be appropriate for the OP to take her step kids.

OP, I still think in regards to the kids spending money that you should offer them a way to earn money, and offer to "hold" it for them, but as far as how they spend it should be up to them, after all, it is theirs because they earned it. Keeping a register is a very good idea, but making them put away 1/2 of the money for WDW is not. Again, if they end up with no spending money, then they just won't get to buy any extras, and a hard lesson will be learned about budgeting and spending.

...and OP, seriously, and this is not an attack, I felt this way on your post about having to return to work, but I held my tongue. Your posts about your husband really send up a red flag to me. He sounds very controlling. This may be just what I am gleaning from your posts, but I am concerned. He seems to use money to keep control over you. Giving you "spending money" and money for "baby gear," I find this bothersome. You are not a child, and shouldn't be doled out an allowance, and what is "baby gear?" Your daughter is his child and he should be supporting her, and that includes buying the things she needs. Again, I am trying to be kind, it is really not an attack, but from this posts and your other posts, you sound very "trapped." I don't know exactly how to word my feelings better, but please seek help if you need it.

 

[mom2faith]

OK. I did not read all of the posts yet, but I wanted to comment on my first instincts - I totally agree with your DH. I do not know why, but something tells me that your DSS and DSD do not have a full appreciation for time and money. I also get the feeling they are playing both sides here. Now, granted they are 8 and 12, but still, there needs to be boundaries. I see no problem with cancelling the trip and then allowing them to EARN it back.

I think to many of us, myself included, give our children everything and forget to teach them the value of things. I am horrible for this myself, and I think the fact that your DH stood his ground and set a limit is great!! I admire him for it.

I do think that perhaps a deal can be reached where the kids can earn the right/priviledge to the trip back on good behavior. Maybe things like earning monopoly money for chores and good deeds and then if they have enough "money" they can buy the trip back??

Good luck to you!!

Amy

I may be wrong, but I don't think the OP is expecting the step kids to contribute toward the vacation, I think the expectation is that they will provide their own spending money.

As for the vacation with her daughter, that is a separate vacation. It is being paid for by the OP's sister, the husband is not going, so it probably would not even be appropriate for the OP to take her step kids.

OP, I still think in regards to the kids spending money that you should offer them a way to earn money, and offer to "hold" it for them, but as far as how they spend it should be up to them, after all, it is theirs because they earned it. Keeping a register is a very good idea, but making them put away 1/2 of the money for WDW is not. Again, if they end up with no spending money, then they just won't get to buy any extras, and a hard lesson will be learned about budgeting and spending.

So, before I get flamed, I wanted to just point out what I was getting to in my above post.

Like badluckpug - I read the OP as the kids are contributing to their spending money, After reading a few more posts, I am not sure of that anymore. I still do not retract my statement that there needs to be value instilled in children, but I also do not know if we are getting the "whole" story.

I just wanted to say, that how I read the initial post was that the kids were not "getting it" when it comes to things costing money, and time, etc. And, I see no problem with having limits and boudaries that assist the kids in learning "value".

But...I am not sure if that applies here. I think I will keep watching this thread and OP. Maybe there is more to this story.

Anyway, just wanted to clear up that I may have misunderstood the first post

Amy

 

[themousetrap]

Sorry for jumping in a bit late here and sorry again if this has been said already, but:

If a child spending five dollars of their own money for ice cream is jeopardizing a family vacation, then you weren't in a good financial position to take a vacation of this caliber to begin with.

I can understand what you mean in theory about the principle of saving money and the value of the dollar, but, geez, there are 18-year-old kids in college who still don't understand the value of a dollar.

It's horrendous to fathom that a parent (step or no) would ask their children to contribute to a vacation. Even for spending money where five bucks for ice cream or admittance to a swimming pool is the deal breaker. My kid just has won his seventh pageant (yes, boys do it too) and has won over 500 dollars, but I won't dare take that money and do what amounts to him basically paying for his own vacation. We we planned this thing out, we said "Okay, we're going to have x amount of money to spend." Anything extra would be considered a bonus.

You can't possibly tell a child "I'll pay for mine if you pay for yours". It doesn't matter what kind of plan or compromise you put in place, the message is all the same - that they're going to use their own money to fund a family vacation for everyone - pull their own weight, if you will. And, by making them do chores, then putting half in a jar that they can't access is the same as (if not worse) than charging them income tax! A parent shouldn't have to do that. It's perfectly fine if you're wanting to teach your kids how Uncle Sam will do the middle class in 20 years, but for a vacation...?

I can understand if the kid wanted to go to the prom with a thousand-dollar dress and you can only afford a 300-dollar one. Then you teach them the value of saving money. You can still satisfy a child's wants and needs while still teaching them the value of time and money. That's part of being a parent.

But, if you're so bent on teaching the kids how to save a dollar and not nickel-and-dime it away, give them a spending money cushion of say...a hundred dollars. That's guaranteed spending money. And, everything they save themselves can be added on to it - but you don't tell a kid, "You can't get this 10 dollar souvenir because you bought five dollar ice cream instead". Children can't correlate spending five dollars now to ten dollars later. If it were that simple, no one would be in debt.

Honestly though, from what I've read, the problems go far beyond a vacation and it won't go away when you get back from Disney. I know it's magical and all, but you're looking for outright biblical wizardry. It's seriously time to sit down with EVERYONE and reevaluate how you want to financially raise your children...without the Internet.

 

[stella27]

OK. I did not read all of the posts yet, but I wanted to comment on my first instincts - I totally agree with your DH. I do not know why, but something tells me that your DSS and DSD do not have a full appreciation for time and money. I also get the feeling they are playing both sides here. Now, granted they are 8 and 12, but still, there needs to be boundaries. I see no problem with cancelling the trip and then allowing them to EARN it back.

I think to many of us, myself included, give our children everything and forget to teach them the value of things. I am horrible for this myself, and I think the fact that your DH stood his ground and set a limit is great!! I admire him for it.

I do think that perhaps a deal can be reached where the kids can earn the right/priviledge to the trip back on good behavior. Maybe things like earning monopoly money for chores and good deeds and then if they have enough "money" they can buy the trip back??

Good luck to you!!

Amy

What is the BAD behavior that caused them to lose the possibility of the trip in the first place? I haven't seen anything that they have done WRONG in this scenario except to try to tread through a minefield laid by their dad and stepmom.

 

[crisi]

I may be wrong, but I don't think the OP is expecting the step kids to contribute toward the vacation, I think the expectation is that they will provide their own spending money.

Though, honestly, if the kids don't have their own spending money, so what? So they won't get snacks - my kids seldom get (or want) snacks at WDW. So they won't get souvenirs. If the kids are just saving for Mickey Bars and a t shirt, what is the big deal? As long as she is planning on paying for their meals, transportation, room, and tickets - they don't really need spending money.

 

[mom2faith]

So, before I get flamed, I wanted to just point out what I was getting to in my above post.

Like badluckpug - I read the OP as the kids are contributing to their spending money, After reading a few more posts, I am not sure of that anymore. I still do not retract my statement that there needs to be value instilled in children, but I also do not know if we are getting the "whole" story.

I just wanted to say, that how I read the initial post was that the kids were not "getting it" when it comes to things costing money, and time, etc. And, I see no problem with having limits and boudaries that assist the kids in learning "value".

But...I am not sure if that applies here. I think I will keep watching this thread and OP. Maybe there is more to this story.

Anyway, just wanted to clear up that I may have misunderstood the first post

Amy

What is the BAD behavior that caused them to lose the possibility of the trip in the first place? I haven't seen anything that they have done WRONG in this scenario except to try to tread through a minefield laid by their dad and stepmom.

Yeah, I kind of realized that I misunderstood what the OP was saying.

Please don't flame me - LOL!! I think I am on track now.

I thought there was a problem with the value of money and things.

I am thinking now that it is something much deeper!!

Amy

 

[MOMTOMOOTOO]

I want to know how OP's dd, who is only a baby, is "saving up" for the trip.

She gave up night swimming and ice cream. DUH

 

[pixie921]

She gave up night swimming and ice cream. DUH

Of COURSE! Silly me!!


It would be helpful if the OP would actually answer a question that has been asked numerous times: is she expecting the kids to save money for their own souvenirs, or is she expecting them to actually contribute money for the tickets, lodging, etc.? The fact that she brought up the $300 the stepson won (however that happened) is muddying the waters ... which is it, OP? Souvenir money or money towards entire family expenses?

An answer would certainly give more clarity to the situation, but it seems the OP simply doesn't want to clarify for some reason.

 

[la79al]

Of COURSE! Silly me!!


It would be helpful if the OP would actually answer a question that has been asked numerous times: is she expecting the kids to save money for their own souvenirs, or is she expecting them to actually contribute money for the tickets, lodging, etc.? The fact that she brought up the $300 the stepson won (however that happened) is muddying the waters ... which is it, OP? Souvenir money or money towards entire family expenses?

An answer would certainly give more clarity to the situation, but it seems the OP simply doesn't want to clarify for some reason.

I didn't realize this wasn't clarified. The kids would be saving for souveniers and any snacks they would want above what we buy. I didn't expect DSS to bring all $300 but I didn't think $10 was the end of the world. And DD gets money from various family members and loves putting it into her piggy bank.
DSD spending $5 does not financially ruin us. We can definitely afford this trip. AND I GET IT NOW! I should not be expecting the kids to sacrifice ice cream and swimming to go on a family trip. As the adults we either decide we can afford to take them and do it or we look over the budget, decide it can't be done and don't bring it up in the first place. Saying we'll take you if you meet our demands (holding the trip for ransom) is not the way to raise children. Yes it would be nice if they have spending money (because as I said before, on previous trips they were handed some and still needed more at the end of the trip) and occassionally reminding them that they will want some is okay. Telling them you can't do that because you need to put that money towards DW is not. And the world will not stop turning if they don't come home with a Mickey plastered tshirt.
You won't believe this but my stepkids and I get along pretty well. They will tell me things they won't tell their mother. DSD is actually coming here extra weeks this summer to hang out with DD and I. I don't want to screw them up. I do love them and care about them. I need to put the brakes up and get this all figured out. I don't want this to be the trip they gave up organs to get to. I want this to be a family trip they can look forward to and create memories before and during. What is going on right now are not the memories I want to create. I will be sitting down with them tonight and having a long discussion. I want to work out something that works for them and then I want this issue to be dead. I swear I will not be uttering 'if you don't....then no DW'. WTH is the point of a family vacation if you hate and resent your family by the time you get there?!?!
Thank you all for your constructive criticism and patience with me being a complete idiot

 

[pixie921]

Thanks for the clarification, OP. It sounds like you're on the right page with the trip, and I hope you guys can figure a way to work it all out.

 

[okeydokey]

Hats off to you OP for looking at this with fresh eyes. I think your bigger issue is with DH and $ in general.

 

[MOMTOMOOTOO]

If you really want them to have some of their own spending money (which btw, my kids do too) why not get them disney dollars or disney gift cards when birthdays and holidays roll around. You could suggest this to family members who are at a loss as to what to get them as well. This way, they have money which is only earmarked for the trip. It won't tempt them to spend it on other stuff. Just a thought. Good luck, OP

 

[la79al]

If you really want them to have some of their own spending money (which btw, my kids do too) why not get them disney dollars or disney gift cards when birthdays and holidays roll around. You could suggest this to family members who are at a loss as to what to get them as well. This way, they have money which is only earmarked for the trip. It won't tempt them to spend it on other stuff. Just a thought. Good luck, OP

We have actually tried both the DD and the GC before. First trip DSD refused to spend her DD because they had Disney characters on them (speaking of, she still has them stashed somewhere....). Second trip, DSS found out that he couldn't use the GC at the little carts where he was constantly buying sodas. We may try the DD again though. I think DD is over the 'I have to keep them forever' stage. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[RobinFabulous]

I didn't realize this wasn't clarified. The kids would be saving for souveniers and any snacks they would want above what we buy. I didn't expect DSS to bring all $300 but I didn't think $10 was the end of the world. And DD gets money from various family members and loves putting it into her piggy bank.
DSD spending $5 does not financially ruin us. We can definitely afford this trip. AND I GET IT NOW! I should not be expecting the kids to sacrifice ice cream and swimming to go on a family trip. As the adults we either decide we can afford to take them and do it or we look over the budget, decide it can't be done and don't bring it up in the first place. Saying we'll take you if you meet our demands (holding the trip for ransom) is not the way to raise children. Yes it would be nice if they have spending money (because as I said before, on previous trips they were handed some and still needed more at the end of the trip) and occassionally reminding them that they will want some is okay. Telling them you can't do that because you need to put that money towards DW is not. And the world will not stop turning if they don't come home with a Mickey plastered tshirt.
You won't believe this but my stepkids and I get along pretty well. They will tell me things they won't tell their mother. DSD is actually coming here extra weeks this summer to hang out with DD and I. I don't want to screw them up. I do love them and care about them. I need to put the brakes up and get this all figured out. I don't want this to be the trip they gave up organs to get to. I want this to be a family trip they can look forward to and create memories before and during. What is going on right now are not the memories I want to create. I will be sitting down with them tonight and having a long discussion. I want to work out something that works for them and then I want this issue to be dead. I swear I will not be uttering 'if you don't....then no DW'. WTH is the point of a family vacation if you hate and resent your family by the time you get there?!?!
Thank you all for your constructive criticism and patience with me being a complete idiot

I don't think anyone here sees anything wrong in saying we're giving you x amount for souvies/snack/junk... after your money is gone it is GONE, if you need more, save your birthdya money, etc. My own children were each given $50. One blew through his, one had hers left over and the other broke even. That being said, I'm not going to let one child not get an icecream when the others do, but I'm also not buying a tshirt, doll, or light spinner when their money is gone, kwim?

I really think the chore chart is a good idea. Show them that when they work you'll give some & they'll get some. At 8 & 12 they're old enough to learn some monetary responsibility, just not the way you were doing it before

 

[hentob]

IAND I GET IT NOW!

Does your husband?

We can definitely afford this trip.

You were worrying about financing Easter baskets and birthday parties a few months ago


So, is the trip back on?

Did your husband sit the children down and apologize for blaming them for the initial cancellation?

Call me a skeptic, but this very negative behavior has been going on in the OP’s house for quite awhile, according to her other posts.

I doubt it will be fixed without professional help.

But, I will give kudos to the OP for realizing this is all very abnormal. I hope her DH thinks the same way.

 

[sk!mom]

I'm just sick of trying to police the kids and their money all the time. They don't get an allowance here and we were going to start since they will be here a lot this summer but now I'm totally against it.

If you don't give them an allowance then how are they supposed to save for the trip?

I'm confused once again and will offer the same advice that I have on your previous "money issue" threads... You and your DH seem long overdue for some serious discussions and possibly counseling with regard to finances. Judging from your threads, you seem to have a lot of money management issues in your relationship.

If I have you confused with another poster then please forgive me.

 

[MScott1851]

Though, honestly, if the kids don't have their own spending money, so what? So they won't get snacks - my kids seldom get (or want) snacks at WDW. So they won't get souvenirs. If the kids are just saving for Mickey Bars and a t shirt, what is the big deal? As long as she is planning on paying for their meals, transportation, room, and tickets - they don't really need spending money.

No doubt! I never got an allowance as a child, yet I didn't have to subsist on bread and water while on a vacation. If my parents wanted me to have a Mickey bar, they bought me one. I got ears and a Mickey Mouse doll, and if I wanted a lot of extra tacky souveneirs, it was never an issue of "if you don't have any money, you can't have it." It was more like, "You don't need it," or more often than not, just "no." I never suffered for it...

Why in the heck does an 8 year old need to 'earn' money anyway? My parents never paid me to do chores, that was part of MY job in the house. I'm all for teaching kids to be responsible and learn the value of money, but I also think that sometimes kids just need to be kids. I can't imagine me telling my daughter one day that she needs to have her own money before we can go on vacation. I'll supply her with everything that she needs, and some of what she wants, and that's MY job as a parent.

 

[sk!mom]

I want to know how OP's dd, who is only a baby, is "saving up" for the trip.

She's not hitting the ice cream stand or night swims. Obviously with better mothering she's been able to make better choices than the step children.

Sorry for the sarcasm but this is so sad especialy for the children. I hope that their time with their mother is healthier. These kids are going to grow up with some real money issues.

 

[MAH4546]

Did the OP actually refer to her stepchildren as "the steppies?"

And how the heck does a 12 month old "save" for Disney World?

And refusing to buy your child a $4 ice cream on vacation with your own money?

And heaven forbid a child go actually gets out of the house, goes for a swim and enjoys ice cream with friends. Oh no!

That's just all very appalling to me.