The Running Thread - 2018

[FFigawi]

QOTD: I know we have a Strava group already, and it's a huge group! Those with Garmin, would you be interested in a Dis group on their as well or are you good with Strava?

Either or both is fine with me

Let's talk about the guilt of missing a long run, for no other reason than you decided to sleep in. On back to back days.

 

[jennamfeo]

ATTQOTD: I am part of the Strava group and looking at it, it really just looks like all you can do is see other people's activities specific to the group, most of whom I have added on my friend's list anyway and then post in a forum like setting. Garmin Connect looks like it's about the same thing, but with an added calendar feature which would be a neat place to put in people's races or whatever. But still I like being able to see everyone's runs on Strava or Garmin, it helps motivate me, but the rest of the group options just seem like things we do in the forum already without alienating those who don't have a Garmin or whatever. Long answer, short: I don't care. Haha.

I have runner's guilt usually every rest day which is annoying all in itself, so it's elevated on those days where sleep wins, or life wins, or I am just feeling lazy.

 

[roxymama]

Unpopular Opinion: (not related to anything posted here, just related to something at the office)
You know that cartoon from The Oatmeal about running that everyone always posts/shares everywhere? I don't like it. I can't put my finger on why, I just don't. Can't stand it. I wish people would stop sharing it.
Sorry, I just had to say that somewhere.
Okay, I'm going to retreat back into my hole and ignore all the hate that's gonna get thrown at me over this.

I think that's ok. Not everyone has a blerch and not everyone is running to beat a blerch. And some people have a blerch and like their blerch and also like running

I have runner's guilt usually every rest day which is annoying all in itself, so it's elevated on those days where sleep wins, or life wins, or I am just feeling lazy.

Come join my running for almost 90 minutes at 8:30pm a night club because you refuse to let your laziness win! We are accepting new members. We are also accepting babysitters so I can take a nap.

 

[YawningDodo]

@YawningDodo
When I first stared running, I did a short 5k schedule (4-5 weeks??) and then jumped right into a half marathon plan. I probably should have built mileage up a little more slowly. I too dealt with slight shin splint pain during the middle of that training. Right before the race it got significantly worse. At that point I knew nothing about maybe needing new shoes. Although your shoes are new, it’s possible that they are contributing to the problem as well as just starting a new running plan.

I think I did take a couple of run days off, and I might have slowed down too. (This was 2014.) This is what I did to help, and I’m not sure what helped the most:
-new shoes
-compression calf sleeves, I wore these while running
-heel and toe walking stretches before and after running

I training for a half marathon with a local running group, and we always did dynamic stretching before we started (at least before the long run. I rarely did these stretches when doing the other runs on my own). Once I started to get bad shin splints, I added the heel and toe walk stretches in before my run. I felt these targeted the calves the best. Heel walks - walk on your heels keeping your toes up for about 10 or so yards. Toe walks - walk on your toes (heels off ground) for 10 or so yards.
Hope this helps, and you are able to get back on track!

I may have just tried walking in place on heels and then on toes at my desk and I can definitely see how that would stretch things out! Thank you; that's a really easy thing to add in right away. Heck, might go ahead and add that to my walks this week, maybe every other day to start to simulate doing it on run days. My legs have been kind of tight in general and I've known for ages I should be doing more about that...but just didn't get it done. I've got a pair of calf sleeves I've been wearing after my run on Saturdays, but then I don't wear them on weekdays since I don't want to wear them to work, so I think it would be sensible to shift those from after-wear to running wear and get more benefit out of them.

And yeah, sadly, it looks like the consensus is that I need to get new shoes. I don't feel like I got bad service at the other store; what happened was that I assumed because I knew how to relace a shoe with a runner's loop I could fix any heel slipping once I got home and didn't need to do a full lace job on the shoes before committing to them. So I didn't raise the red flag about the heels and now I've learned better. I've still got the receipt, so I'll check the return policy, maybe give them a call...but I really do think I'll end up eating that cost if it comes down to having to drive three hours each way to make the return/exchange.

Oh for sure - don't feel married to it adding up to a full minute! :30 walk breaks is my comfy walk place, so I leave that alone and just mess with the run portion - sometimes it's a :30/:30, other times a :45/:30, others a 2:00/:30. If :50 is your comfy walk place right now, leave that alone and mess around with the run portion. Or you could try taking the walk to :45 and leave the run at :10. The options are limitless!


I think it's a little of both and mostly depends on how much time you have. If you have the time, I think there's benefit in a slow build, a cut-back, and a rebuild. So, using a 30-minute run as a maintenance base...

Week 1: 30 mins, 30 mins, 2 miles
Week 2: 30, 30, 2.5 miles
Week 3: 30, 30, 3 miles
Week 4: 30, 30, 3.5 miles
Week 5: 30, 30, 4 miles
Week 5: 30, 30, 3 miles
Week 6: 30, 30, 3.5 miles
Week 7: 30, 30, 4 miles
Week 8: 30, 30, 4.5 miles
Week 10: 30, 30, 5 miles
Week 11: 30, 30, 4 miles
And so on.

With added distance comes increased endurance, and with increased endurance generally comes increased speed as a by-product. You can use the mid-week runs to try picking up pace a little - say for a half mile, or for 10 minutes - but keep those long runs Long, Slow Distance.

I think 50 seconds is probably a little longer than I need, honestly, if I take the walk at an easy pace instead of speed-walking (which was something I caught myself doing early on). I'm reminding myself to take it easy and not immediately jump down to 30, but I think it'll be worth trying a 10 second run and 40 seconds walking. I'm interested in the way you base it off of what walk portion is good for you and alter the run portion--that might be helpful to me as I play with this.

If I assume that I want to give myself 6 months to go from 6 miles to 13.1 and then another 6 months to go from 13.1 to 26.2, that gives me just over 4 months to go from 3 to 6--alternatively, taking the two months I've already done, 6 months to go from 0 to 6. When I get home tonight I'll have to play around with a spreadsheet and see if that pans out, but I think it very well may. I also like the look of the build-up, cut back, re-build you have in that example. There's been some of that in the basic plan I've been following, but it's a little muddier because half the weekend runs are based on time rather than distance.

 

[gjramsey]

My prediction was on the money. I set up a workout with a 1.5 mile warmup, then rest intervals and 100 meter segments. The rest interval was 500 meters. I know the rest interval is supposed to be shorter than the 'effort'. This is a one time 'time trial', not intended to be a fitness building workout. I also know this is stupid. Don't try this at home.

I was consistent, hitting 20.7, 20.5, 20.5. This is a rolling start, timed and measured by the Garmin. I'm pretty happy with the results. Looks like it will be a while before Usain Bolt needs to worry.

As a bonus: made it to the pool afterwards. Didn't set any world records there either.

View attachment 343444

I did something like this earlier this year just to see what my 100 would be. I think it was something like 1.5 mi Warm-up, 10x300, than 10x100.

My numbers were between 21 and 23 for the 100s. I was laughing at the fact that the likes of Bolt would be finished with the 100 around the time I hit 45 meters.

 

[Kerry1957]

@YawningDodo, I am a relatively new runner (three years), so my advise is limited to two words when you are in doubt...

Slow Down

Most of the issues I have had (minor but nagging injuries, fatigue, burn-out, etc.) can be almost eliminated or at least mitigated by slowing down.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

So is the 1:42 HM accurate (Strava best effort)? If so, these are the Hansons paces based on current fitness:

View attachment 343445

Although we're still in summer, so these are the T+D adjustments:

View attachment 343446

Your 10 mile this morning was a T+D of 144 (73 + 71) which would have been a 4% adjustment (9:35-10:18 pace).

So for the sake of numbers, let's say this was a normal easy day. I find that the EB represents the average pace of a Hansons plan. So if we say a T+D of 144 is average for this time of year, then you're looking at a average pace of 9:35 min/mile. A 9:35 min/mile weekly average X 70 miles in a week equals 11:10:50 hours of training.

The upper limit for the normal recreational runner is about 10 hours. Many do not need to come close to this to maximize their potential and become a good "converter" (or the ability to translate shorter distance racing, like HM, to a M equivalent performance, see below). Being over 10 hours enters the special range for most. Once you get above 10 hours, then you're looking at a 6 day a week plan that would likely need double days to accommodate the durations of the workouts.

Right now the last few weeks you've been in the 8 hour range with most of the pacing in the "easy" range of 9:13-10:33 (relatively speaking). So it wouldn't be entirely surprising to hear that things are going well and you're feeling strong. That's a really good place to be training wise.

A 10 hour limit would put your maximum around 62 miles instead of 70 miles. Even a 10 hour goal time limit is still quite high. It comes down to the individual and whether they can tolerate a high training load. Like yourself I was able to maintain a training load in the 7-9 hr range without much issue. I then did my Lakefront 2016 training plan which really pushed the boundaries of time. I said I had no issue handling less, so let's reach for more. This Dopey 2017 training plan summarizes the results. I made myself a better runner, but not a better runner on race day. The plan ended up being too tough. So you, like most others, need to watch closely the workouts. They've got set paces you're aiming to hit. If you find yourself consistently not hitting the paces, or even worse fading during the workouts (faster at beginning and slower at end) it is a huge red flag that your body is not tolerating the workouts. It's moved into the "Don't survive the training, thrive because of it" area. Where your body is going to be so focused on recovery, and will never get an actual chance to adapt.

So, I can't say for certain 11.5 hours as a maximum is too much for you. But I can say, most don't need to do that much and if you choose to do that much, then focus on the fade of workouts as an early sign to change your plans. I would be careful having your recovery easy runs venture too far beyond the 60 min threshold too often as well.

Man this is good stuff... And thanks! I have not been thinking about weekly time on my feet.

I do not understand why Strava doesn't trust the Garmin times. That HM was 1:44:30, officially (although if it were 15 degrees cooler, I bet I could have made 1:42 easy!)

This morning's run was a Fartlek workout, hence the wonky average pace. (1.5 mile WU: 6 x 3:00@10k/2:00@jog: CD to round out a 10 mile total)

Regardless, this makes sense. I looked back at my marathon training last year, and I peaked at around 60 miles, and 9:30-9:45 in total weekly time. But I distinctly remember that the first 16 mile run was the best one. At the time I was thinking it had to do with the weather, as that was a near perfect day, and the first cool/dry running day of the fall for me. So, was the cumulative fatigue not adding up yet, or was the tail end of the training too much? So many moving parts.

Luckily, the Hansons plans are easy to adjust, as far as total miles go. So much of it is in WU/CD and easy runs, so I can keep the SOS the same, but pull back on the edges to keep the total weekly time peaking around 8:30. While I'd love to get 60 and 70 mile weeks in for long term goals, it makes sense not to push that until the speed allows for it. While I might be able to 'handle' it, it may not be doing me much good. I'm starting to get why people get a coach.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

Let's talk about the guilt of missing a long run, for no other reason than you decided to sleep in. On back to back days.

I really struggled with this back in my first two years of training for races. Eventually, I had to get out there to get the long runs and had to cut out the shorter runs in order to be mileage ready by the race.

For now I'm committing to at least walking throughout this week, whether or not I get any runs in before the weekend. So whether or not I think of anything else, I need to post this and go--it's past time for me to set out to walk to work.

Edit: Yeah, didn't get the walk in, waited too long to start and just drove to work. So that's starting the week out less than ideally.

The worst mistake I made in training for this past Dark Side weekend was to try and run through my knee pain. New shoes helped some, but not enough. The eventual solution was to take time off and slow down upon returning.

So I don't know. I feel like if the program is really a good one and really customized to one's actual fitness level, it could be really good for me. It just worries me a lot to put that much money down on a training plan when I've been burned every other time I've relied on a professional to tell me how to exercise.

I understand your hesitation on paying for coaching that might be coaching you to run a marathon when that goal is on the distant horizon. Honestly, I would keep working on the free plan, but as many have said, do not be afraid to slow down. As you stick with it, you'll see the gains. After my knee pains in January, I never dared go much faster than 15 minutes per mile in my training. I knew I could run injury free and finish at that pace.

I have runner's guilt usually every rest day which is annoying all in itself, so it's elevated on those days where sleep wins, or life wins, or I am just feeling lazy.

One thing I have found is that when I don't go running because "I don't feel good" I often find that I continue to feel "not good" for the rest of the day. Now, if I force myself to get out there and get the work in, I often find that I have replaced tired and sore with tired and sore because I got my run in.

However, it's important to learn to separate runners guilt from legitimate reasons to not get out there such as illness or injury.

@YawningDodo, I am a relatively new runner (three years), so my advise is limited to two words when you are in doubt...

Slow Down

Most of the issues I have had (minor but nagging injuries, fatigue, burn-out, etc.) can be almost eliminated or at least mitigated by slowing down.

So much truth to this. I have often found that a problem can get worse if I attempt to speed my way through it. I've seen training runs that started out with a sharp pain in a leg muscle end just fine miles later with minimal pain because I decided to slow down. It's very easy to let adrenaline and competitive juices amp us up. But if we're not careful those factors can amp us up in all the worst ways. Think of it like this. You're only competing with yourself and specifically against the worst elements of yourself. Getting out there and going slow is so much better than getting out there, going too fast, and either making yourself miserable and/or injured, thus leading you to not get out there at all.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Regardless, this makes sense. I looked back at my marathon training last year, and I peaked at around 60 miles, and 9:30-9:45 in total weekly time. But I distinctly remember that the first 16 mile run was the best one. At the time I was thinking it had to do with the weather, as that was a near perfect day, and the first cool/dry running day of the fall for me. So, was the cumulative fatigue not adding up yet, or was the tail end of the training too much? So many moving parts.

I call it the "Rule of One more". Focus on the fade and make sure that doesn't occur. But additionally, you should finish almost every workout and realistically say to yourself, "I could have done one more". Whether that's one more mile, one more interval, or one more stride. Having the feeling that you couldn't have done "one more" means you probably pushed just a tad too far. That helps you figure out if the feeling at the end of the workout is the right one. Train smarter, not necessarily harder. It's definitely the game within the game.

 

[sylkai]

I was going to post this in my training journal, but...I think it's worth getting input from the larger group.

I did only my Tuesday run last week, no Thursday run, no Saturday long run (for context, my longest long run has been 3 miles), didn't even do my morning walks on the off days. That was because I had very noticeable swelling in both legs, the left more than the right, and lingering shin pain for several days in the left. I've had some swelling towards each evening that I'd been chalking up to water retention since it's summer and I've been eating poorly (way too much fast food, which means way too much salt on top of everything else that's bad for me in it), but after things suddenly coming to a head last week I'm wondering if I've been beating my legs up more than I thought I was. There's also the issue, as I mentioned in my journal, that my new running shoes slip a little in the heel no matter how I lace them and I think it contributed to the problem. Of course, the big contributor was the fact that I noticed my shin hurting more than usual about halfway through the run (I've had mild pain after each run that goes away within a few hours...another clue that I was doing worse things to myself than I thought?) and...kept going through the pain. Gee, what's that thing we don't do, again?

Because this is still so new to me, I get a little scared when I see myself just not running for most of a week, especially since I didn't do any of my weekend routine to prepare to start up again this week. I have no plan for this week, running laundry's not done, none of that. Having started things and then quit when it got too hard, I remember having times where I would intend to pick something back up again after a break and just never did--so while I don't want to throw myself back into behaviors that could cause an injury, I'm being very conscious of the need to keep thinking about running and making real, solid plans for what I'm going to do next. Last week was more hectic than I'd expected, so it wasn't until last night that I got back to doing a little reading and thinking about what this looks like.

Thoughts I'm having...I'm on the Galloway method, and it seems he's recommending (at this stage at least) two "maintenance" runs on weekdays and one long, slow run on the weekend with a full rest day before the long run. What I've been doing are two half-hour runs on weekdays during which I push myself about as hard as I can sustain for that half hour, and I do about 70 minutes of walking the day before my long run mostly out of scheduling convenience (I walk to work on my walking days, and Saturday's a better day for me to run than Sunday). I'm currently running 10 seconds, walking 50, and my pace rarely gets under 15:00 per mile--more often I'm around 15:30. This is after I deliberately slowed myself down because I could tell I was hurting my shins and fading at the ends of runs when I ran 15/45 and pushed for a faster pace. Now I'm wondering if I need to slow down even more, and that's disheartening. I think the 10/50 ratio is alright, but...and this is seriously frustrating...I'm wondering if I should be aiming for something more like 16:00. I'm about 60-70 pounds heavier than I'd ultimately like to be, which is less a concern in terms of "burn fat now!" (I'm viewing weight loss as a secondary benefit of running, if it happens at all) and more a concern in terms of "I'm putting stress on my joints." So I recognize that 16:00 at 10/50 might be the best I can do right now without hurting myself. It's frustrating, though.

In the long term, my goals include running a half marathon next June and the WDW Marathon in January 2020. So far I've gone into this with the assumption that my focus throughout my training needs to be on distance and that I'll naturally be able to increase my intervals as I build up endurance. I can't explain exactly how the thought got in my head, but now I keep coming back to the thought that maybe I should focus on increasing my ability to run longer intervals on shorter runs before I build much further past 3 miles. I just imagine myself slogging through ten miles at my current ratio and pace and it doesn't sound like where I'll want to be. I'm thinking about things like...if I focus on short distance runs (maybe up to 10K) now through January, I'll still have six months to train to run the HM distance, and then another six months to train to run marathon distance. And maybe being able to run more and walk less by the time I start adding longer runs will make things easier at that point. But then I don't know if teaching myself to run higher ratios on shorter runs will be better or worse for preventing injury than focusing only on distance.

And so, back to the injury question...I think there are a couple things I need to examine. First, I need to get serious about stretching, which I haven't really been doing (if only because every time I look up how and what to stretch I get inundated with what seems like a billion different stretches I'll never remember to do after every run). Second, I suspect strength training might benefit me--that's strength training in terms of building up my core and any other muscle groups that might help me function better as a runner. Third, I need to deal with the shoe situation. Any recommendations for getting the heel to stop slipping? I was informed in my journal thread that some running stores will exchange shoes even if they've been run in a bit, but the store from which I bought them is a three hour drive away. If I need to replace the shoes, I'm probably more inclined to go to the other one that's only a 90 minute drive and just eat the cost of the additional pair. Fourth, I do need to consider what my priorities are as I build my training plan going forward and as I decide whether to slow down on those weekday runs and make them truly "easy" instead of the "moderate" I suspect they currently are. And, too, whether I need to take Fridays off from walking to give my legs a full rest before the long run instead of taking that rest the day after.

For now I'm committing to at least walking throughout this week, whether or not I get any runs in before the weekend. So whether or not I think of anything else, I need to post this and go--it's past time for me to set out to walk to work.

Edit: Yeah, didn't get the walk in, waited too long to start and just drove to work. So that's starting the week out less than ideally.

One thing that I have added to my routine that has helped me immensely in my recovery from the stress reactions (e.g., the evolved form of shin splints - and who knows, it might have gotten all the way to stress fractures, but we didn't do an MRI so I don't know) has been a lacrosse ball. I roll my calf muscles with it twice a day, once in the morning and once before bed. It gets in and works the knots better than a foam roller would. I also do some very gentle rolling on both sides of my shins, where the muscles are coming in to attach to the bone. My PT was very clear I needed to be careful in these areas and not push too hard or do too much, but I'm pretty convinced it's a key component to why things have been okay as I've been ramping my mileage back up.

I did successfully complete my half marathon on August 4th in a depressing (for me) time of 2:37:57; I crashed and burned hard on the second half because I overestimated my endurance and went out too fast. Whoops. On the bright side, there was no shin pain after the race whatsoever. (My core, on the other hand, let me know that it too was not fond of this concept.) And it was good mental training for not quitting at the marathon distance when things get hard.

Sending some healing vibes for you and for @Keels. I'm very grateful at the moment to be at a spot where it looks like I can handle 25 mile weeks and there's hope to increase again soon on the horizon. Feels like, barring anything else happening, I should be ready to start training for the full in September, right on schedule.

Now I need to build my plan.

 

[YawningDodo]

I really struggled with this back in my first two years of training for races. Eventually, I had to get out there to get the long runs and had to cut out the shorter runs in order to be mileage ready by the race.

The worst mistake I made in training for this past Dark Side weekend was to try and run through my knee pain. New shoes helped some, but not enough. The eventual solution was to take time off and slow down upon returning.

I understand your hesitation on paying for coaching that might be coaching you to run a marathon when that goal is on the distant horizon. Honestly, I would keep working on the free plan, but as many have said, do not be afraid to slow down. As you stick with it, you'll see the gains. After my knee pains in January, I never dared go much faster than 15 minutes per mile in my training. I knew I could run injury free and finish at that pace.

One thing I have found is that when I don't go running because "I don't feel good" I often find that I continue to feel "not good" for the rest of the day. Now, if I force myself to get out there and get the work in, I often find that I have replaced tired and sore with tired and sore because I got my run in.

However, it's important to learn to separate runners guilt from legitimate reasons to not get out there such as illness or injury.

So much truth to this. I have often found that a problem can get worse if I attempt to speed my way through it. I've seen training runs that started out with a sharp pain in a leg muscle end just fine miles later with minimal pain because I decided to slow down. It's very easy to let adrenaline and competitive juices amp us up. But if we're not careful those factors can amp us up in all the worst ways. Think of it like this. You're only competing with yourself and specifically against the worst elements of yourself. Getting out there and going slow is so much better than getting out there, going too fast, and either making yourself miserable and/or injured, thus leading you to not get out there at all.

As I was reading your post, particularly the part about the 15 minute pace, I suddenly realized that despite having very deliberately told myself that pace wasn't a goal...I've been viewing improving my pace as one of my goals. I've had it in my head that of course I'm going to get faster than 15 within the next year--that I might even make 12 in time for next April's Ice Breaker (you're only allowed to enter the 5 miler if you can finish it in an hour). But that's just me ignoring what I've been told and what I tell myself and others: that a.) I'm just working to be my best, not to meet such-and-so standard and b.) even if I do get faster, it's going to take a lot of slow improvement to get there.

I've been feeling better about this as the day goes on and I read more of everyone's kind and helpful replies. I was upset with everything this morning partly because I didn't have a plan and felt like I was just going to backslide into the same problems again as soon as I started back up. I still don't 100% have a plan, but I have a lot of things to try and I know the immediate answer is to slow down and add some stretches to my routine. Also, to never run through the pain again.

I'm feeling better, too, about tackling the planning on my own like I'd intended. I've still got a few weeks left on the plan I dug out of the book, so any pressure to get it written out right this moment is frankly all in my head.

One thing that I have added to my routine that has helped me immensely in my recovery from the stress reactions (e.g., the evolved form of shin splints - and who knows, it might have gotten all the way to stress fractures, but we didn't do an MRI so I don't know) has been a lacrosse ball. I roll my calf muscles with it twice a day, once in the morning and once before bed. It gets in and works the knots better than a foam roller would. I also do some very gentle rolling on both sides of my shins, where the muscles are coming in to attach to the bone. My PT was very clear I needed to be careful in these areas and not push too hard or do too much, but I'm pretty convinced it's a key component to why things have been okay as I've been ramping my mileage back up.

I did successfully complete my half marathon on August 4th in a depressing (for me) time of 2:37:57; I crashed and burned hard on the second half because I overestimated my endurance and went out too fast. Whoops. On the bright side, there was no shin pain after the race whatsoever. (My core, on the other hand, let me know that it too was not fond of this concept.) And it was good mental training for not quitting at the marathon distance when things get hard.

Sending some healing vibes for you and for Keels. I'm very grateful at the moment to be at a spot where it looks like I can handle 25 mile weeks and there's hope to increase again soon on the horizon. Feels like, barring anything else happening, I should be ready to start training for the full in September, right on schedule.

Now I need to build my plan.

That's a good trick with the lacrosse ball. I believe you re: it working; I remember when I first had a job where I was on my feet a lot I'd use a tennis ball to massage them and that worked pretty well, so I believe that it's a good shape to get in there. Do you massage with it before or after a run? I'm not clear on whether it's good or bad to increase blood flow after a run by massaging the muscles.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I suddenly realized that despite having very deliberately told myself that pace wasn't a goal...I've been viewing improving my pace as one of my goals. I've had it in my head that of course I'm going to get faster than 15 within the next year--that I might even make 12 in time for next April's Ice Breaker (you're only allowed to enter the 5 miler if you can finish it in an hour). But that's just me ignoring what I've been told and what I tell myself and others: that a.) I'm just working to be my best, not to meet such-and-so standard and b.) even if I do get faster, it's going to take a lot of slow improvement to get there.

I've recently come to love the idea of setting a primary goal and then stretch goals for a race. I define the primary goal as "Finish the race." Then the stretch goals allow me to address things such as time, pace, intervals, character photos (to this point I've raced exclusively at runDisney events), etc. I like the idea of stretch goals because it's something to work towards, but is also something that I can adjust if necessary on race day. Goals are something we should work towards, but it's important to not get so caught up in the pursuit of these goals that we miss the more important larger picture. A stretch goal allows you to progress towards something at the race, but also gives you the ability to realize that maybe it's more bad than good on race day. If I injure myself in obsessive pursuit of a goal then did I actually benefit myself? I had a stretch goal for Dark Side weekend this year. I absolutely failed in that stretch goal, but I realized during training that I could either pursue that stretch goal at the expense of injury or I could slow down, train healthy, and finish healthy.

Maybe some day I'll run a sub 3 hour half marathon. But even if I never do, I can also honestly say that I've finished 9 half marathons. Which is 9 more half marathons than I ever dreamed of finishing back when I started this back in 2011. I've gone from not even daring a 5K and Half on back to back days because I feared it would destroy my chances of finishing that half to successfully finishing with great times for me multi race challenges and will be running my first marathon as part of Dopey this January.

I've been feeling better about this as the day goes on and I read more of everyone's kind and helpful replies. I was upset with everything this morning partly because I didn't have a plan and felt like I was just going to backslide into the same problems again as soon as I started back up. I still don't 100% have a plan, but I have a lot of things to try and I know the immediate answer is to slow down and add some stretches to my routine. Also, to never run through the pain again.

From your questions and responses, it sounds like you've got this all in perspective. As much as running can be very individual, we learn so much from the community. Sometimes a plan needs to be adjusted. You can make your current plan one of learning what works for you.

Failure only comes if you don't get up again. Or as one of my favorite exchanges in the 2005 movie Batman Begins says:

Alfred: And why do we fall Master Bruce?

Bruce Wayne (after a failure): So we can learn to pick ourselves back up again.

I'm feeling better, too, about tackling the planning on my own like I'd intended. I've still got a few weeks left on the plan I dug out of the book, so any pressure to get it written out right this moment is frankly all in my head.

From when your race is compared to now, you have plenty of time. I went from having never run at all to finishing a half marathon after very hit and miss following the Galloway plan for the 2011 Disneyland in 4 months. Or about the time his plan outlined. Adjust your plan as needed and don't be afraid to get feedback from the community.

 

[sylkai]

That's a good trick with the lacrosse ball. I believe you re: it working; I remember when I first had a job where I was on my feet a lot I'd use a tennis ball to massage them and that worked pretty well, so I believe that it's a good shape to get in there. Do you massage with it before or after a run? I'm not clear on whether it's good or bad to increase blood flow after a run by massaging the muscles.

I run first thing in the morning, but I massage before the run. I typically don't massage immediately after the run - if I'm doing something right now, it's icing my shins.

The tennis ball was not recommended for what I am using this for because it's too soft. Fortunately one of my local sports stores sold the lacrosse balls for relatively cheap so now I have multiples. I was attempting to stretch the calf muscles before this but the lacrosse ball taught me I was clearly not getting into the muscles that needed it.

 

[avondale]

QOTD: I know we have a Strava group already, and it's a huge group! Those with Garmin, would you be interested in a Dis group on their as well or are you good with Strava?

ATTQOTD: I would be interested in a Garmin group. I know lots of folks are on Strava, but I've never gotten on there and really don't need another place to be spending lots of time. It's hard enough to keep up with this board!

 

[avondale]

That's what I've been hoping would happen, which is why I haven't fussed about the minor pain as long as it goes away quickly. Last week the pain was to the point where it was uncomfortable to be on my feet at all, which was the reason for the break. Things seem to be back to normal now, but yeah, the shoes are still an issue. I tried several different configurations of a runner's loop in the laces and found one that mostly eliminates the slipping, but I can still feel it. Multiple surfaces...my immediate thought was "no, it's all concrete" but then the neighborhood is laid out in a grid and I have to cross a street every block--down off the sidewalk, across the asphalt, hop back up on the other side (very few sidewalk corners have ramps here). Also, some of the sidewalks are just Not Great. It'd be a challenge for me to switch to running the trail by the river on every run, since driving over there increases the time I need to devote to it and I'm already just about at my limit in terms of what running I can get done on a weekday morning if I don't shift my bedtime even earlier.



That's encouraging, thank you! Before now my training goals from now to January have been vague; I've always planned to hit HM next summer and marathon in 2020. It's just recently that I've been thinking more about having a more immediate goal than that. I know it's going to be a hard push (or series of hard pushes), but I'm thinking maybe having a lower immediate goal will help things feel less vague and distant.



I'm in a weird place with weight loss right now, to be honest. I've done Weight Watchers before and was very successful with it back in 2013; I hit my goal weight over the course of one year. Since my big rebound (literally gained all of it back) I've tried several times to use food-tracking techniques (Weight Watchers, Noom, just plain keeping a journal...) to re-lose the weight and come to the conclusion that tracking calories or points isn't an approach that works for me anymore. While I'd like to lose weight, it's not a primary goal and I'm not making particular effort to do so beyond making gradual changes like eating most or all of my meals at home, introducing more fruits and vegetables over time, etc. I bring it up more because I'm concerned about whether I need to do things differently in order to avoid beating up my joints as long as I'm still carrying the weight.



Yeah, I'm just going to have to look things up and figure out what to start introducing. The level of detail available has been part of the problem, though; I do best by just adding one or two new things at a time and there's just So Much that gets thrown at me all at once. I guess I need to just make a list and choose a couple things to add each week.

Just a quick comment that you may be able to make a short-term fix in the heel-slipping of your shoes by changing your lacing. Someone on this board pointed me to this website on different ways to lace your shoes: https://runrepeat.com/top-10-running-shoe-lacing-techniques and the first one is for heel slipping. I hope you get it figured out!

 

[Wendy98]

Weekend race recap:

Little Miami Half Marathon. I decided to do this race last Thursday because I got a comp elite entry. I am a sucker for free race entries. It has been a long time since I've done a half (March 2017). I wanted to race just to gage fitness and get out of my current comfort zone. The race is fairly small (hence the elite entry, lol). There is also a 10k that starts 30 minutes after the hm start. The course was very flat and ran along a small river. It was on a paved bike trail which was so slick from the rain from the night before. It is just an out and back basically in the woods. I never know who will show up at a race but based on previous years, looks likes times were getting faster. Anyway, my goal was to stay around a 6:50 pace and finish under 1:30. I have been battling plantar fasciitis for the past 2 weeks (I have had heel pain since Boston, but OMG, the last 2 weeks it is raging). I did see the foot ortho who didn't offer much help beyond what I have been doing. I was hitting my paces except for the mile where the turnaround was--I slowed down so much because I was scared I would wipe out on the wet pavement. The last 3 miles merges with the 10k. This was a little problematic because you had 10k runners in both directions. I was running with 2 guys at this point and we had to go single file. I let them find the "opening" and followed. We dropped one guy with about 2 miles to go and I passed the other guy in the last .5 mile. He told me "nice, strong finish" and I thanked him for pushing me to that point.

Anyway, official clock time was 1:29:21(6:49 pace). I am about 10-15 seconds off where I am aiming to be, but happy with results. 5th OA woman, 1st in AG. FTR, the winning woman set the course record with a 1:19 (she also won last year with a 1:20).

 

[Miranda]

ATTQOTD: I have a garmin and I'm in the dis strava group. I will say that I used the strava a lot for a long time but with how busy I had gotten this year I started just not being able to keep up with logging things on my garmin app, then strava, then my journal, and in my daily planner, and with my husband, etc. I was in "keeping track of things overload" So I'd end up keeping track in two places but not the same two places consistently. It was too much.
sooooooooooo...I'm taking a lil strava and journal break and keeping track in a place my hubby (aka my #1 "GO RUN" motivator and also the person that needs to work around my schedule) can see. And then I go on to the others for lil bits here and there when I can.
The weird thing is it looks like I'm not running very much where in reality I've never ran more in my life. I'm on 5 days a week and it seems like 6,7 & 8 mile runs are my new easy base miles. Weeeeiiiirrrrd. "edited to say "easy" in relation to how they used to be...these miles are still not as easy as running a half hour, etc...you all know the drill"

So long story short. I would one day join a dis garmin group and will one day attack strava more. But I needed an unplug for awhile (facebook and instagram and snapchat have all gotten a roxymama redux too)

Side note: I run on the treadmill now 2-3 times per week (a blessing when it's less) so those I log seperately in my dopeybadger chart at home. Because Ive become too lazy to manually add them in. So on a garmin group you'll likely only see me when I'm going outside.

Not suggesting you plug back in if you need to unplug, but reading this it makes it sound like before you were manually putting things into Strava... just wanted to make sure you knew you can connect them together so it automatically syncs your stuff from Garmin to Strava once you save the Garmin activity. The only time I enter something manually into Strava is when my watch craps out, otherwise as soon as I finish the activity on my Garmin it gets saved to Garmin Connect and then saved to Strava.

 

[Waiting2goback]

I am sorry to hear how these things are turning out. It's really a shame how some adults act after a divorce. My parents divorced when I was 2 ish, so I grew up knowing nothing different, but as I got older I realized some of the crazy things that actually happened. Unfortunately I've seen many people close to me get divorced, and out of those people I only know of one that turned out good. They actually get together for Christmas to make things easier for everyone and bring their new spouses with them. It may seem odd, but all of the kids and their grand kids are together. This is rare though and usually the holidays bring out the worse in this situation. I hope that things get better, and just remember it's probably for the best to keep a cool head in situations in which you would be justified in not doing so. Best of luck going forward and always feel free to come here to post or you can PM me if you just need someone to vent to.

I was never expecting things to go smoothly with her, and while she played her games with me throughout the divorce, to disown your own grandmother, who financed her legal fees mind you, just because she talked to me, is pretty pathetic. But thanks for the support. I appreciate it. It was more about the running believe it or not. Running has taught me how to better handle these types of things.

I was going to post this in my training journal, but...I think it's worth getting input from the larger group.

I did only my Tuesday run last week, no Thursday run, no Saturday long run (for context, my longest long run has been 3 miles), didn't even do my morning walks on the off days. That was because I had very noticeable swelling in both legs, the left more than the right, and lingering shin pain for several days in the left. I've had some swelling towards each evening that I'd been chalking up to water retention since it's summer and I've been eating poorly (way too much fast food, which means way too much salt on top of everything else that's bad for me in it), but after things suddenly coming to a head last week I'm wondering if I've been beating my legs up more than I thought I was. There's also the issue, as I mentioned in my journal, that my new running shoes slip a little in the heel no matter how I lace them and I think it contributed to the problem. Of course, the big contributor was the fact that I noticed my shin hurting more than usual about halfway through the run (I've had mild pain after each run that goes away within a few hours...another clue that I was doing worse things to myself than I thought?) and...kept going through the pain. Gee, what's that thing we don't do, again?

Because this is still so new to me, I get a little scared when I see myself just not running for most of a week, especially since I didn't do any of my weekend routine to prepare to start up again this week. I have no plan for this week, running laundry's not done, none of that. Having started things and then quit when it got too hard, I remember having times where I would intend to pick something back up again after a break and just never did--so while I don't want to throw myself back into behaviors that could cause an injury, I'm being very conscious of the need to keep thinking about running and making real, solid plans for what I'm going to do next. Last week was more hectic than I'd expected, so it wasn't until last night that I got back to doing a little reading and thinking about what this looks like.

Thoughts I'm having...I'm on the Galloway method, and it seems he's recommending (at this stage at least) two "maintenance" runs on weekdays and one long, slow run on the weekend with a full rest day before the long run. What I've been doing are two half-hour runs on weekdays during which I push myself about as hard as I can sustain for that half hour, and I do about 70 minutes of walking the day before my long run mostly out of scheduling convenience (I walk to work on my walking days, and Saturday's a better day for me to run than Sunday). I'm currently running 10 seconds, walking 50, and my pace rarely gets under 15:00 per mile--more often I'm around 15:30. This is after I deliberately slowed myself down because I could tell I was hurting my shins and fading at the ends of runs when I ran 15/45 and pushed for a faster pace. Now I'm wondering if I need to slow down even more, and that's disheartening. I think the 10/50 ratio is alright, but...and this is seriously frustrating...I'm wondering if I should be aiming for something more like 16:00. I'm about 60-70 pounds heavier than I'd ultimately like to be, which is less a concern in terms of "burn fat now!" (I'm viewing weight loss as a secondary benefit of running, if it happens at all) and more a concern in terms of "I'm putting stress on my joints." So I recognize that 16:00 at 10/50 might be the best I can do right now without hurting myself. It's frustrating, though.

In the long term, my goals include running a half marathon next June and the WDW Marathon in January 2020. So far I've gone into this with the assumption that my focus throughout my training needs to be on distance and that I'll naturally be able to increase my intervals as I build up endurance. I can't explain exactly how the thought got in my head, but now I keep coming back to the thought that maybe I should focus on increasing my ability to run longer intervals on shorter runs before I build much further past 3 miles. I just imagine myself slogging through ten miles at my current ratio and pace and it doesn't sound like where I'll want to be. I'm thinking about things like...if I focus on short distance runs (maybe up to 10K) now through January, I'll still have six months to train to run the HM distance, and then another six months to train to run marathon distance. And maybe being able to run more and walk less by the time I start adding longer runs will make things easier at that point. But then I don't know if teaching myself to run higher ratios on shorter runs will be better or worse for preventing injury than focusing only on distance.

And so, back to the injury question...I think there are a couple things I need to examine. First, I need to get serious about stretching, which I haven't really been doing (if only because every time I look up how and what to stretch I get inundated with what seems like a billion different stretches I'll never remember to do after every run). Second, I suspect strength training might benefit me--that's strength training in terms of building up my core and any other muscle groups that might help me function better as a runner. Third, I need to deal with the shoe situation. Any recommendations for getting the heel to stop slipping? I was informed in my journal thread that some running stores will exchange shoes even if they've been run in a bit, but the store from which I bought them is a three hour drive away. If I need to replace the shoes, I'm probably more inclined to go to the other one that's only a 90 minute drive and just eat the cost of the additional pair. Fourth, I do need to consider what my priorities are as I build my training plan going forward and as I decide whether to slow down on those weekday runs and make them truly "easy" instead of the "moderate" I suspect they currently are. And, too, whether I need to take Fridays off from walking to give my legs a full rest before the long run instead of taking that rest the day after.

For now I'm committing to at least walking throughout this week, whether or not I get any runs in before the weekend. So whether or not I think of anything else, I need to post this and go--it's past time for me to set out to walk to work.

Edit: Yeah, didn't get the walk in, waited too long to start and just drove to work. So that's starting the week out less than ideally.

To piggyback on my earlier post about all the things I'm unsure about...I'm back to considering whether to buy a custom 6 month training plan from the Galloway website (the one where it'd be written by Christ Twiggs). On the one hand, I'm very suddenly hitting a point where I feel overwhelmed and like I need specific, professional guidance. On the other hand, as I'm looking at it I'm realizing that a big part of the reason I'd decided not to do that is that I'm afraid of putting my training in another person's hands after previous experiences with trainers and coaches. When I booked some sessions with a personal trainer in college, he immediately set me upon all kinds of intense forms of exercise that were completely unrealistic for my fitness level at the time, so I ended all those sessions exhausted and sore for days and not interested in continuing. When I tried Noom last year, my online coach wanted me to make massive lifestyle changes all at once; she saw only that I wasn't meeting the prescribed dietary goals and didn't recognize that cooking my own food at all (instead of going out to eat multiple times each week) would have been a massive victory for me--so I got no encouragement on the change I was actually ready to make. It's always been the same story when I go to someone else instead of designing my own program; in my first attempt at training to run I used a C25K program and it was, again, wildly unrealistic for my actual fitness level, and being unable to meet those metrics was very discouraging.

So I don't know. I feel like if the program is really a good one and really customized to one's actual fitness level, it could be really good for me. It just worries me a lot to put that much money down on a training plan when I've been burned every other time I've relied on a professional to tell me how to exercise.

I know you got some good responses and some good opinions. In my opinion, when I was reading this, all I could think of was, you don't need to worry about pace, diet, 10k, 1/2, or doing a full in 2020. You should just focus on being consistent in my opinion. Yes, you need the right shoes, and sometimes it can take a while to find those. Yes, you would 100% benefit from better eating. (You should find the documentary Fed Up. If you watch that, and see how people are being controlled by food, and don't get motivated to eat better I would be shocked). Yes, stretching would help your shin splints. But to me it sounds like your biggest hurdle to overcome is your fear and self doubt. Don't worry about pushing yourself as hard as you can for two runs a week, that's not what you are "supposed" to do. You're actually supposed to make the majority of your runs easy.

If I were you, I would get a heart rate monitor. I would find out what your zone 2 heart rate is (if you PM me I can help you) and I would spend the next couple of months doing most of your runs/walks in your zone 2 heart rate. Let your heart determine how fast you should be going and take your brain out of it. This prevents you from getting in your own head. You will be surprised at how quickly your "performance" numbers increase when you do this.

I just seems from what you wrote that you are so into what should be happening rather than focusing on enjoying the fact you are deciding to change your lifestyle. Set small goals for yourself and work to accomplish those and as you become consistent at doing that you increase the difficulty of the goal. You can start with, no fast food for the week, no side for a week, walk/run 3 times in a week, etc... then when you achieve those types of goals consistently you change them to a month, or whatever.

Bottom line is, you CAN do this if you want it bad enough. I don't think you need an expensive coach. I don't think you need to worry about what ur walk/run intervals are. I think you need to tell yourself, "I am doing this no matter what it takes and I am not stopping until I cross that finish line in 2020 (if that's your ultimate goal). Once you do that, believe you can, and don't accept no for an answer (when your brain tells you that you can't) you will succeed. I know because I lived it and did it too!

 

[Waiting2goback]

@YawningDodo

 

[Waiting2goback]

We have two today in honor of @YawningDodo