The Running Thread - 2018

I have a question for those who run multiple races during one weekend. I thought I could wait until my tapering in May but my mind keeps wandering to it, even during training runs:
What objectives do you set? What would you recommend in the following situation (I am looking at you all Dopey’s)?

The Ottawa Voyageur Challenge consist of three races. Of course, finishing all three in good health is the primary objective.

Day Time Distance PR to beat
Saturday 4:00PM 5k 24min50s
Saturday 6:30PM 10k 54min50s
Sunday 9:00AM Half 2h45min*
*The Half PR is making at least 20 stops for pictures at Disney, I was and am training for a time between 1h50 and 2h10.

As we get closer to that weekend, I’ll be able to evaluate my abilities at that time. The weather will also be a factor.

But if all is well, do I try to beat my PRs? Which ones? Or do I just try to keep the total to under 3h40min? Going for steady pace throughout?

TIA

Agree with @jmasgat. Your 5k/10k races are in the afternoon/evening and back to back. So they're more like a 15k than a 5k or 10k. Plus being in the evening puts them closer to the HM by time of day which increases the difficulty. I'd recommend taking the 5k/10k easier (like 60 sec slower than marathon pace OR the slowest you've run in training) and going for it on the HM. Although, the performance of the HM is likely to be effected even by an easy 15k the night before.

I think the decision comes down to whether you want as good a HM performance as you can get OR a combinatorial time to beat. But going for 3 PRs would be pretty risky.
 
QOTD: Yesterday morning I was watching a little TV and saw that the LA Marathon was being aired. I got to watch the last 20-30 minutes of the men and women leaders. BTW the women's race was a good one! So, my question is, do you watch a marathon if it's on TV?

ATTQOTD: It's not very often that a marathon is televised, but if one is I usually watch some if not all of it. Coming up soon is the Boston Marathon which I normally watch when I get home from work that day. I do have to activate a channel to do so, but its worth it. This year we will be at WDW during the event, so I will just keep up with it on social media.
 
ATTQOTD: not really. Made that mistake once and all I saw were people vomiting. I can't handle that lol. I don't mind watching them in person and have done so several times to cheer on an older brother but even then I have a hard time watching people get sick or struggle to finish.
 
QOTD: Yesterday morning I was watching a little TV and saw that the LA Marathon was being aired. I got to watch the last 20-30 minutes of the men and women leaders. BTW the women's race was a good one! So, my question is, do you watch a marathon if it's on TV?

I don't go out of out of my way to watch a marathon l, but if it's on and I'm not watching anything else, I might watched. I watched part of the NYC marathon in November and got to see Shalane Flannigan win, which was cool.
 


Question for those of you that drink beet juice. I know it's been extremely popular among runners, but what is a good beet root powder to buy? Amazon has more than 50 different types of beet powder. Are they all the same or are any of them better than others?
 


QOTD: Yesterday morning I was watching a little TV and saw that the LA Marathon was being aired. I got to watch the last 20-30 minutes of the men and women leaders. BTW the women's race was a good one! So, my question is, do you watch a marathon if it's on TV?
I watched the LA marathon a few years ago when it was the olympic trial, but I didn't watch yesterday. I like to watch Boston if possible and also the olympics, but I don't seek out marathons to watch on TV>
 
QOTD: Yesterday morning I was watching a little TV and saw that the LA Marathon was being aired. I got to watch the last 20-30 minutes of the men and women leaders. BTW the women's race was a good one! So, my question is, do you watch a marathon if it's on TV?

It's rare that I come across a marathon on TV (I'm pretty bad about gravitating to what's in the DVR). But there have been a few; I think I've seen parts of the Olympics, Boston and Chicago on TV.
 
QOTD: Yesterday morning I was watching a little TV and saw that the LA Marathon was being aired. I got to watch the last 20-30 minutes of the men and women leaders. BTW the women's race was a good one! So, my question is, do you watch a marathon if it's on TV?
I enjoy recording and watching some of the big international marathons, especially if I’m familiar with the Americans running. It’s fun to cheer them on and then FF through the commercials. Or, I may have it on in the background while running on my treadmill. I love seeing the beautiful cities (especially fun if I’ve visited them before)!
 
I've watched the Boston and NYC marathons on tv, as well as the marathon during the Rio Olympics. Last year I was on a long run during the NYC marathon so I recorded it and watched it during my post-run meal :)
 
I don't typically watch marathons on TV. I think I've seen portions of Boston before and the Olympics but that's it.
 
ATTQOTD: I’ll watch them on occasion. Most times I forget when a major one is going on and just happen to see it on the guide.
 
ATTQOTD: I will search for and watch coverage of Boston. I will check out other marathons if there are racers that I am interested in, e.g. Shalane, Desi, etc.
 
Question for those of you that drink beet juice. I know it's been extremely popular among runners, but what is a good beet root powder to buy? Amazon has more than 50 different types of beet powder. Are they all the same or are any of them better than others?

Beet-It Sport (not powder based) is the most commonly scientifically researched Beet supplement. Not necessarily because it is the best, but because it has a controlled dosage of Nitrates (which is the key component to the enhancements you are likely seeking). The company also makes a placebo controlled Beet product without Nitrates which aides in scientific research. Since Nitrates are the key component of Beet root, you'll want to make sure to find something with a controlled dosage. You have to ask yourself your personal reason for taking a Beet supplement. Is it for the potential cardiovascular/blood pressure improvements, or are you looking for performance benefits in endurance racing? That will dictate the necessary dosage level, timing of consumption, and dosing regimen.

Additional Background Info from when I gave Beet Juice a try:

The other change is I'm going to give the Beet Shot Pro (Concentrated Beet Juice) a try. I was having a conversation with another DIS user about the effects of Beet Juice on endurance performance and whether the scientific research supported the idea. This is what I surmised from the research:

Conclusions

-Acute supplementation (one time) with beetroot juice may have an ergogenic effect on reducing VO2 at less than or equal to VO2max intensity, while improving the relationship between watts required and VO2 level, mechanisms that make it possible to enable increase time-to-exhaustion at less than or equal to VO2max intensity.

-In addition to improving efficiency and performance in various time trials or increasing time-to-exhaustion at submaximal intensities, chronic supplementation with beetroot juice may improve cardiorespiratory performance at the anaerobic threshold and VO2max intensities.

-Apparently, the effects of supplementation with beetroot juice might not have a positive interaction with caffeine supplementation, mitigating the effects of beetroot juice intake on cardiorespiratory performance, however, more work is needed to confirm the results of these investigations because the number of studies analyzing the effects of the combination of beetroot juice with other supplements, such as caffeine, is limited.

-Intake of beetroot juice should be initiated within 90 min before athletic effort, since the peak value of NO3 occurs within 2–3 h after ingestion. At least 6–8 mmol (400mg) of NO3 intake is required, which can be increased in athletes with a high level of training.

-Can't use mouthwash because it destroys the necessary type of bacteria in the mouth. The reason the Beet Juice works is because it increases the amount of NO3 and that occurs because of the breakdown of the Beet Juice by the bacteria as it is being swallowed. I also read that you shouldn't chew gum either.

What's interesting to me is the research is based on two time frames: Acute (one time) and Chronic (6 days). The 6 day data seems to suggest additional benefits above and beyond the acute dosing. It does appear the benefits are about 1-2% in racing times.

For a 24 min 5k, that's 23:31-23:46 just by taking beet root supplementation. A 1:50 HM, would be a 1:47-1:48 by supplement. A 3:04 M, would be a 3:00:19-3:02:10 by supplement. So while, 1-2% seems small it might be just enough extra push to reach a goal (say a 3:04 marathoner's goal of a 2:59 marathon perhaps...)

The source that was tested continuously was from http://beet-it.us/where-to-buy/

Effects of Beetroot Juice Supplementation on Cardiorespiratory Endurance in Athletes. A Systematic Review. Raul Dominguez

This is pharmacodynamic and dose response data based on a single dose.

screen-shot-2017-06-03-at-10-09-25-am-png.241812


screen-shot-2017-06-03-at-10-09-35-am-png.241811


screen-shot-2017-06-03-at-10-11-47-am-png.241813


Beetroot juice and exercise: pharmacodynamic and dose-response relationships. Lee J Wylie.

So this data shows that the timing of the dose matters as far as nitric oxide concentration goes (only this specifically as other gains like blood pressure and mitochondrial changes very well can be a cumulative effect). It shows that the peak of the beet root juice and cardiovascular/VO2max improvements occurs around 2.5-4 hours. If you take it as a night time dose and run in the morning (~12 hrs later), then there will be a small gain over water, but not much. The 24 hr timepoint shows that unless the dose is really high the effects of nitric oxide wear off after 24 hrs. That's where my dose lives is in the higher range. Which means after 24 hrs a small residual is left over. As each successive day passes, there will be more and more residual remaining. Now this is a presumption based off a single does. To confirm we would need a baseline value from a single dose (like above) and then a second pharmacodynamic curve after 6 doses (not done by this paper). That should show the "0" as higher than the baseline "0". In the end, my belief is that there is a certain threshold based on an individual's characteristics that must be passed in order to elicit the benefits. The unknown is where is each person's threshold. But since no negative effects were seen at the higher dosage for 6 days, then I might as well go for that under the assumption my necessary threshold will be below that level. The accumulation will help increase the overall dose load over time.

Well the initial caffeine and beetroot juice research seems to imply they don't have an additive effect. One or the other is sufficient in receiving similar benefits.

Another paper seemed to suggest that the time trial benefits is reduced for people with a higher VO2max. Other research contends a higher dose is necessary for those with a higher VO2max.

The really difficult part about the research out there is that everyone seems to be using various dose levels, or various timing on dosing. Based on the pharmacodynamics, it would appear that timing of the dose is critical as well as the amount taken to maximize the effects.
 
Random Question:
I can do my last long run before my race on March 31 on Tuesday (11 days) or Wednesday (10 days) of this week. Will it make that big of a difference which day? I want to do it Tuesday but Wednesday's weather looks so much nicer (and less muddy).
 
QOTD: Yesterday morning I was watching a little TV and saw that the LA Marathon was being aired. I got to watch the last 20-30 minutes of the men and women leaders. BTW the women's race was a good one! So, my question is, do you watch a marathon if it's on TV?
ATTQOTD: ALWAYS, so I'm bummed to find out it was televised and I missed it! Drat.
 
ATTQOTD: I watch Boston every year and the Olympic marathon every 4. That's it.


I'm ready for some spring here in the northeast! The wind and COLD has been crazy up here the last few days! Temps are in the teens or low 20's again with wind chills down near 10F in the mornings. :( This is like mid-January! I'm starting week 5 of my May HM plan today and I'm ready to run in some nicer weather. :)

I'm pretty excited to see today that we finally have a real opening date for our OTF location... they told me last YEAR when I signed up (a little after Thanksgiving) that it would be February, now finally April 6 with a soft open on March 30. I'm excited to start getting some interval and strength training added to my running routine!
 

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