The Running Thread - 2016

[RunDisneyDad]

I think @RunDisneyDad and I posted at the same time. I think he got to the same point (with many fewer words I might add).

Haha...I think its because I know fewer words.

 

[huggybuff]

Thanks to all the compression gear talk I bought some tights and more Zensah bras.

Tomorrow is my last Couch 2 5K run. Still struggling with cardio a bit, but today was better. I'm usually around a 14:30 pace; hoping to get into the 13s by the time the race rolls around in January. Hopefully that's realistic. I know slow runners are still running but I'd like to get faster, eventually.

 

[GreatLakes]

Thanks to all the compression gear talk I bought some tights and more Zensah bras.

Tomorrow is my last Couch 2 5K run. Still struggling with cardio a bit, but today was better. I'm usually around a 14:30 pace; hoping to get into the 13s by the time the race rolls around in January. Hopefully that's realistic. I know slow runners are still running but I'd like to get faster, eventually.

There is a good chance you will find some additional pace come race day. I have been racing a little over 11 years and I always can race faster than I can train. I'm sure it is part mental, part that I am just willing to suffer more during a race, and part I am being pushed by the runner right behind or in front of me but no matter how much I try I can't get in a training run as fast as I can race.

Does anyone know what the Marathon Weekend dates will be in 2018??? All this Dopey talk has me in planning mode...

My guess would be the 4th through 7th but I could see it being the 11th through 14th.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

My guess would be the 4th through 7th but I could see it being the 11th through 14th.

Since MLK weekend is the 13th-15th I expect it to be the earlier weekend, as you suggested.

 

[Chasing Dopey]

If RunDisney is siloed off from the rest of the parks and resorts division someone isn't very good at their job.

Actually..... this is how Disney runs everything now. It's part of the reason that Disney can recoup the cost of buying Star Wars from Lucas BEFORE the release of TFA, but still cut services and entertainment at Disneyland/WDW because they were getting Shanghai'd. (LITERALLY!!!) Each element of the business has been separated, including within the parks. (Parks/Resorts)

RunDisney is operated by two organizations: Track Shack Events in Orlando, Spectrum Sports Management in California. (In a contest between the two, Spectrum's Star Wars was infinitely better this year.) The compartmentalization has been blamed for the drop in characters/entertainment on course. I'm not sure how accurate that is, even though it makes sense if rD has to turn an attractive profit on its own, and is forced to buy the entertainment. This dropoff could also be to blame for lower demand. As a newer rD runner, I can't compare to 5 or 10 years ago, but others surely can.

 

[Keels]

QOTD: I was just looking at the runDisney site and noticed that the marathon, Dopey, and Goofy are still open for registration. Assuming that is current, what do you think the reason is for the race not being sold out yet?

I think the financial expenditure is a big reason. Also, it becomes a VERY expensive RunCation for families, which is what one of my close girlfriends is dealing with in relation to Marathon Weekend - she badly wants Disney to be her first Marathon, but between plane tickets and park tickets alone for the three of them (they'd stay at my house in Florida), along with the time out of school for their daughter RIGHT after school starts back up, it's just so many barriers this time around. That's my take on ALL unsold RunDisney events as a whole though, especially for Disneyland. It's no surprise that Disneyland races are having down attendance this year - the parks are missing quite a few attractions because of construction, etc. Also - I feel like more Disney travelers default to WDW over DL, so if a Disney Fan is going to run a race, it's higher probability that it's going to be at WDW.

Now, about the Challenges exclusively ... at first, I was surprised that Dopey didn't sell out right away. But now that I've thought about it more - as well as conversations I've had with my runner friends (most of whom are not RD runners), the thought of a challenge is not appealing, and certainly not the thought of a challenge including a full marathon. I think previous Dopeys are more likely to be taking this year off because of cost in favor of 2018. I also think that Dopey (and Goofy) can very much so be one-and-done for people. On top of that, I know of at least a dozen people that opted to run Dopey in 2017 via charity groups rather than purchasing their bibs from RunDisney because of some of the extra perks that Charities offer, so maybe that's also skewing the sales figures a little bit?

Marathon Weekend and Disneyland Half weekends are easily my favorite of the five weekends I've done so far (Tink takes third place), so I know I'll be committing to those two weekends (and the accompanying challenges) going forward. I may run other weekends if friends want to, but I'll probably just stick with the half unless there is something incredibly compelling for me to do the challenge.

ATTQOTD: I believe that a different type of runner is interested in WDW races. I know a few "serious" runners who scoff at the idea of running in a rD event. The events are really not set up in such a way as to allow serious runners with a long background in the sport of even having a chance at a PR. The only serious runners who run at Disney are also fans of Disney and see it as a chance to combine 2 passions.

I also don't think that the rD marathon has sold out in quite a while. They used to post it as sold out when they hit the last day of availability, but it often went from 90-92% full to sold out on that day, so not really "sold out". If I had to guess, I would say that most rD runners really are not interested in the distance, and most will never run another marathon elsewhere.

Finally, I believe that most rD runners really are not consistent runners. This is a cool box to check off, then they move on with their lives.

I can see a lot of this as well. I think RD is the best at getting non-runners interested in running these races - that's how I became motivated to make the change in my life.

I also thought that the only Marathon I'd do would be WDW Marathon. But, yeah, I'm a big dummy as I'm here training for Chicago in the heat of summer in Texas.

I'd like to think most rD runners take the challenge of the race a bit more seriously than just a cool box to check off, but I did run Princess Weekend ... and, well ... that weekend is eye-opening.

 

[keahgirl8]

QOTD: I was just looking at the runDisney site and noticed that the marathon, Dopey, and Goofy are still open for registration. Assuming that is current, what do you think the reason is for the race not being sold out yet?

ATTQOTD: If I remember correctly, last year the marathon took some time to reach full registration (Really late I believe), but the challenges filled up fast. I think we are on the back side of a running boom, and perhaps a lot of folks did Disney as a one and done type event. To add to that, its one of the most expensive marathons (Registration and hotel accommodations + if you spend time at the parks) you can travel to in the lower 48. One other factor could be the economy is a bit down and people are holding onto their money... Maybe I am off on all points, and registration normally takes this long to fill up.

Maybe all the running boom people from 2013 & 2014 have injured themselves? (I'm not joking, it's bound to happen with all distance runners at some point right...and if you get a boom of new distance runners...you probably get a boom of people with minor to major things nagging at them that decide to take a while off?) Just a theory that's probably totally wrong

I think there could be some truth to that. I know for a fact that a lot of people runDisney without being properly trained. If you do that for Dopey, you're done. For a while.

ATTQOTD: I believe that a different type of runner is interested in WDW races. I know a few "serious" runners who scoff at the idea of running in a rD event. The events are really not set up in such a way as to allow serious runners with a long background in the sport of even having a chance at a PR. The only serious runners who run at Disney are also fans of Disney and see it as a chance to combine 2 passions.

I also don't think that the rD marathon has sold out in quite a while. They used to post it as sold out when they hit the last day of availability, but it often went from 90-92% full to sold out on that day, so not really "sold out". If I had to guess, I would say that most rD runners really are not interested in the distance, and most will never run another marathon elsewhere.

Finally, I believe that most rD runners really are not consistent runners. This is a cool box to check off, then they move on with their lives.

That's what I'm thinking. People who want to run marathons regularly are more "serious" runners. Those people are less likely to runDisney. I'm not saying ALL people, but generally speaking. People who are not "serious" runners are probably going to be one and done.

There is a good chance you will find some additional pace come race day. I have been racing a little over 11 years and I always can race faster than I can train. I'm sure it is part mental, part that I am just willing to suffer more during a race, and part I am being pushed by the runner right behind or in front of me but no matter how much I try I can't get in a training run as fast as I can race.

I have found this to be true as well. For me, it is a combination of things. 1. Adrenaline. I get so excited and raring to go on race day, I run faster (sometimes too fast, unfortunately). 2. Sometimes, it is just a matter of trying to get by people. It's not really that I'm pushing myself, but I will run a little faster to get around someone slower. 3. I tend to pay more attention to my pace during a race. Sometimes I don't worry about it at all during training. Maybe that's backwards, but it's how I roll!

I thought I quoted the post about the Disneyland fireworks, but now I don't see it. I think this rumor got started because the Disneyland Forever (60th anniversary) fireworks are going away. I'm guessing they'll go back to the old show or come up with a new one. Disneyland Forever has a lot more elements, which I have heard are a lot more expensive. I know they are making cuts, but I think they'd have to be in really bad shape to take away fireworks completely.

 

[Kathymford]

QOTD: Lets talk about compression. Do you use compression gear? If so, do you run with it, for recovery, or both? Do you find that it helps any?

When I first started running, I used to get shin splints A LOT. So at the expo after my first DL 10k, I bought some calf sleeves that have space for slipping in ice packs. After that run, I hardly needed them (new shoes, more running, etc.). But in the last year or so, as my distances increased, I pull them out now and then and they are definitely life savers for me. Shin splint pain used to last at least a week for me and now, it doesn't. That's all I know. I wouldn't run with them though; less clothes, the better for me.

QOTD: I was just looking at the runDisney site and noticed that the marathon, Dopey, and Goofy are still open for registration. Assuming that is current, what do you think the reason is for the race not being sold out yet?

We have finally hit supply and demand! I don't think it's a bad thing. In fact, I think WDW could use some races that don't have 20k people in them. And as everyone has mentioned, the prices for EVERYTHING has gone up making this RUNCATION not seem like the great prospect it once was. Also, the one thing I don't like about going to WDW for races, is it doesn't feel like a vacation for us. We are not commando park-goers (no kids), but know that we have to take it easy on our legs if we want to run decently at these races. And if you are doing more than one, even worse. That's not fun.

Also, I think the construction at all the parks have people just saying, let's just wait for that WDW trip until there's more to see. That's kind of where we are right now. Although, I keep trying to plan a trip ...

I just read an article where there is a rumor that Disneyland will not be having fireworks once the 60th celebration ends.

Disneyland will be going to one of their "cheaper" fireworks shows after the celebration ends. I have never heard that they are eliminating them completely. Funny, all the people complaining about that are the same ones that complained when they didn't get to see the special summer one, or the Christmas one this year. Disney fans are the WORST sometimes.

I guess my main point of skepticism was about whether decreasing prices would ever be a serious consideration.

Disneyland races have been coming down in price (slowly) with each release since DLH 2016 didn't sell out; both the half and the challenge.

I'd like to think most rD runners take the challenge of the race a bit more seriously than just a cool box to check off, but I did run Princess Weekend ... and, well ... that weekend is eye-opening.

I think I've seen you mention this in passing previously ... what's wrong with Princess weekend?

 

[Kathymford]

@Waiting2goback I think I just saw the article with the rumor that the fireworks may be going away completely. I think this is one of those completely bogus rumors that start on these message boards (lol). But alas, that's just my opinion ...

 

[keahgirl8]

I think I've seen you mention this in passing previously ... what's wrong with Princess weekend?

You didn't ask me, but I have done Princess weekend for the last 3 years, and I'm in a lot of Facebook groups for it. I think the issues are they there are a lot of people who are new runners or aren't runners at all participating. This means there can be some people with little or no etiquette whatsoever. In addition, the official merch can be a madhouse, because that's the focus for a lot of people. All of that being said, I have never had a bad experience and will keep dong it as long as I can afford it. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it's because I try not to let other people's issues affect me, maybe it's a little of both.

 

[MommaoffherRocker]

Yesterday's ATTQOTD: I was using compression sleeves during my runs because I was having problems with my right calf/inside of my lower leg and I tried stretching, strengthening and rest and nothing was helping until I started using them. But lately they seem to be bothering me while I run so I haven't been using them.

Todays ATTQOTD: I am thinking those races haven't sold out because, like others before me have said, they are once in a lifetime events for most people and there just aren't enough people each year with that goal to sell them out.

 

[Kathymford]

You didn't ask me, but I have done Princess weekend for the last 3 years, and I'm in a lot of Facebook groups for it. I think the issues are they there are a lot of people who are new runners or aren't runners at all participating. This means there can be some people with little or no etiquette whatsoever. In addition, the official merch can be a madhouse, because that's the focus for a lot of people. All of that being said, I have never had a bad experience and will keep dong it as long as I can afford it. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it's because I try not to let other people's issues affect me, maybe it's a little of both.

All opinions are always welcome! I find that is true in a lot of RD races, except the marquee ones (DLH and Marathon weekend). Star Wars Light Side inaugural year was crazy like that. I think like has been mentioned, RD is like the gateway drug to new runners. Ha. I was just curious if Princess had something specific to it.

 

[disneydaydreamer33]

You didn't ask me, but I have done Princess weekend for the last 3 years, and I'm in a lot of Facebook groups for it. I think the issues are they there are a lot of people who are new runners or aren't runners at all participating. This means there can be some people with little or no etiquette whatsoever. In addition, the official merch can be a madhouse, because that's the focus for a lot of people. All of that being said, I have never had a bad experience and will keep dong it as long as I can afford it. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it's because I try not to let other people's issues affect me, maybe it's a little of both.

I had a great time at Princess half too! I was happy that I didn't have to go to Expo on the first day, so I didn't see the bad behavoir/craziness that was reported.

I'm excited to compare another RD event, when I do Disneyland half next year

 

[doctorintheTARDIS]

You didn't ask me, but I have done Princess weekend for the last 3 years, and I'm in a lot of Facebook groups for it. I think the issues are they there are a lot of people who are new runners or aren't runners at all participating. This means there can be some people with little or no etiquette whatsoever. In addition, the official merch can be a madhouse, because that's the focus for a lot of people. All of that being said, I have never had a bad experience and will keep dong it as long as I can afford it. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it's because I try not to let other people's issues affect me, maybe it's a little of both.

I'm taking my training for the Princess 10k very seriously. Hopefully won't feel like I'm just weaving around people for an hour :/ and then have to feel like I'm Black Friday shopping to get a t-shirt (I'll want one to celebrate my first 10k for sure!)

If I do... oh well... I'm sure I'll still find something to smile about!

 

[Miranda]

ATTQOTD: I'm not sure why the races haven't sold out but for me, I just can't afford to go to Disney multiple times a year all the time, plus there are other places we want to travel and see. The 11 month period between 12/2014 and 11/2015 was really an anomaly for us. I made plans with some people to do Tink after we already had existing plans to go back to WDW after a decent sized hiatus (it'd been 7 years since our last long trip, although we did do a day trip from my parents in there somewhere). Then I decided, well, I might as well do W&D too for the C2C! But it was pricey, and there is a lot of construction going on in recent years that has kind of put a damper on all the trips (and the day trip). I don't get that magical feeling seeing all the walls up year after year. So for us, we are going to wait to go back after some of the construction has died down and some new things open.

As for Princess, that seems like the weekend I'm least likely to attend. I'm just not really into the whole princess thing.

 

[derekleigh]

QOTD: I was just looking at the runDisney site and noticed that the marathon, Dopey, and Goofy are still open for registration. Assuming that is current, what do you think the reason is for the race not being sold out yet?

ATTQOTD: If I remember correctly, last year the marathon took some time to reach full registration (Really late I believe), but the challenges filled up fast. I think we are on the back side of a running boom, and perhaps a lot of folks did Disney as a one and done type event. To add to that, its one of the most expensive marathons (Registration and hotel accommodations + if you spend time at the parks) you can travel to in the lower 48. One other factor could be the economy is a bit down and people are holding onto their money... Maybe I am off on all points, and registration normally takes this long to fill up.

I think it's a combo of pricing and more race weekends (none really unique unless it's marathon weekend or WDW vs. DL). The full is usually always last to sell out and goofy has been pushed to the backburner since Dopey arrived. Even the half with the big 20th anniversary race still took a while to sell out! I do agree with you about the backside of the running boom aspect.

The marathon and goofy always take a while to sell out. Dopey on the other hand usually sells out fairly quickly. I'm guessing they either added some more spots to dopey which is less likely or we have a slow down in the dopey craze before the big 2018 5th anniversary and 25th anniversary of the full.

This. I'm curious if people are holding off until 2018 for the big Anniversary year during Marathon weekend.

 

[Waiting2goback]

This week we have the following folks with races. Since Monday is a holiday, I am including races on that day as part of the weekends races.

03 - @bellrae - Gold Coast (Australia) Half Marathon (2:30:00 / N/A)
03 - @Waiting2goback - Finish at the 50 (NG / N/A)
03 - @SueInBoston - Finish at the 50 - 10k (NG / N/A)
04 - @Disney at Heart - Peachtree Road Race (1:15:00 / N/A)
04 - LSUlakes - Run Wild 5k (21:00 / N/A)
04 - Dis5150 - Freedom 5k (NG / N/A)

If you would like to revise you goal time or are no longer running the race let me know so I can made the adjustment. Good luck to everyone and have a great race!

No goal for me other than to have fun with my kids in the 5K and then to be able to finish in one piece for the 10K. After that I will be fine with whatever happens.

I was suprised how slow goofy sold out last year given that it was an anniversary year. I think a lot of goofy runners opted for Dopey last year. I wonder if Disney increased the number of Dopey slots this year? I think the Novelty of Dopey wears of quickly. I love Marathon weekend and had fun doing Dopey but in talking with my running buds we looked at what we spent and switching from Goofy to Dopey wound up costing us each between $500 and $700 when you factored in the additional hotel, meals and race entry fees. That's a lot of money for a 5k and 10k.

It cost you $500-$700 MORE for Goofy and Dopey?

View attachment 178193

View attachment 178194

With U.S. marathon finishers decreasing by 8% from 2014-2015, it's no wonder why the Disney marathon didn't fill-up quickly last year. Assuming the decreasing trend continues in 2016, it's possible that the marathon never really fills up for 2017. I mean, given a total of 509k marathon finishers in the U.S. in 2015, Disney needs to get roughly 4% of all U.S. marathon finishers to register for their marathon in order to fill 20k spots. You need to have a pretty special event in order to get that much interest.

In fact, there are only seven U.S. marathons that get 20k+ registrations (see chart below), and after that, all other U.S. marathons are below 10,000 finishers. Now, the Disney marathon does have some pretty unique features: mainly, you get to run through four theme parks, you can stop for character photo ops, you can possibly ride a ride or two during the marathon, they have multi-race challenges, plus they provide pretty good entertainment along the way. That being said, there are some downsides compared to the other top 7 marathons: not many spectators, you likely won't PR especially if you want to enjoy some of the unique opportunities (photo ops, rides, challenges), can be quite humid, no big names because of prize money, fairly boring route when outside of the theme parks.

View attachment 178196

Of the 509,000 marathon finishers that doesn't take into account the people who did more than one. So the number of unique marathon finishers will be even lower.

Does anyone know what the Marathon Weekend dates will be in 2018??? All this Dopey talk has me in planning mode...

My guess would be 1/4-1/8.

Thanks to all the compression gear talk I bought some tights and more Zensah bras.

Tomorrow is my last Couch 2 5K run. Still struggling with cardio a bit, but today was better. I'm usually around a 14:30 pace; hoping to get into the 13s by the time the race rolls around in January. Hopefully that's realistic. I know slow runners are still running but I'd like to get faster, eventually.

Your goal is realistic so with hard work and consistent training I think it is very possible. Especially with what everyone was saying about going faster during a race than in training normally.

I think the financial expenditure is a big reason. Also, it becomes a VERY expensive RunCation for families, which is what one of my close girlfriends is dealing with in relation to Marathon Weekend - she badly wants Disney to be her first Marathon, but between plane tickets and park tickets alone for the three of them (they'd stay at my house in Florida), along with the time out of school for their daughter RIGHT after school starts back up, it's just so many barriers this time around. That's my take on ALL unsold RunDisney events as a whole though, especially for Disneyland. It's no surprise that Disneyland races are having down attendance this year - the parks are missing quite a few attractions because of construction, etc. Also - I feel like more Disney travelers default to WDW over DL, so if a Disney Fan is going to run a race, it's higher probability that it's going to be at WDW.

Now, about the Challenges exclusively ... at first, I was surprised that Dopey didn't sell out right away. But now that I've thought about it more - as well as conversations I've had with my runner friends (most of whom are not RD runners), the thought of a challenge is not appealing, and certainly not the thought of a challenge including a full marathon. I think previous Dopeys are more likely to be taking this year off because of cost in favor of 2018. I also think that Dopey (and Goofy) can very much so be one-and-done for people. On top of that, I know of at least a dozen people that opted to run Dopey in 2017 via charity groups rather than purchasing their bibs from RunDisney because of some of the extra perks that Charities offer, so maybe that's also skewing the sales figures a little bit?

Marathon Weekend and Disneyland Half weekends are easily my favorite of the five weekends I've done so far (Tink takes third place), so I know I'll be committing to those two weekends (and the accompanying challenges) going forward. I may run other weekends if friends want to, but I'll probably just stick with the half unless there is something incredibly compelling for me to do the challenge.



I can see a lot of this as well. I think RD is the best at getting non-runners interested in running these races - that's how I became motivated to make the change in my life.

I also thought that the only Marathon I'd do would be WDW Marathon. But, yeah, I'm a big dummy as I'm here training for Chicago in the heat of summer in Texas.

I'd like to think most rD runners take the challenge of the race a bit more seriously than just a cool box to check off, but I did run Princess Weekend ... and, well ... that weekend is eye-opening.

What was eye opening about Princess weekend?

When I first started running, I used to get shin splints A LOT. So at the expo after my first DL 10k, I bought some calf sleeves that have space for slipping in ice packs. After that run, I hardly needed them (new shoes, more running, etc.). But in the last year or so, as my distances increased, I pull them out now and then and they are definitely life savers for me. Shin splint pain used to last at least a week for me and now, it doesn't. That's all I know. I wouldn't run with them though; less clothes, the better for me.



We have finally hit supply and demand! I don't think it's a bad thing. In fact, I think WDW could use some races that don't have 20k people in them. And as everyone has mentioned, the prices for EVERYTHING has gone up making this RUNCATION not seem like the great prospect it once was. Also, the one thing I don't like about going to WDW for races, is it doesn't feel like a vacation for us. We are not commando park-goers (no kids), but know that we have to take it easy on our legs if we want to run decently at these races. And if you are doing more than one, even worse. That's not fun.

Also, I think the construction at all the parks have people just saying, let's just wait for that WDW trip until there's more to see. That's kind of where we are right now. Although, I keep trying to plan a trip ...



Disneyland will be going to one of their "cheaper" fireworks shows after the celebration ends. I have never heard that they are eliminating them completely. Funny, all the people complaining about that are the same ones that complained when they didn't get to see the special summer one, or the Christmas one this year. Disney fans are the WORST sometimes.



Disneyland races have been coming down in price (slowly) with each release since DLH 2016 didn't sell out; both the half and the challenge.



I think I've seen you mention this in passing previously ... what's wrong with Princess weekend?

I agree about all the construction. HS and Epcot are so limited now and yet the ticket prices keep climbing. Someone asked me the other day what they should plan to do at HS when they go this year. I said, skip it. Their kids don't like thrill rides so what is there to do all day at that park? Not much.

I thought I quoted the post about runDisney races being bucket list races or runDisney runners not being as serious as other runners. I think runDisney gets people into running, like many of us here, and then when people fall in love with it they then find other experiences and don't feel the need to only run Disney races. Look at Keels as an example. She is doing Chicago this year and she signed up for an ultra marathon. So now that Disney prices are going up people look for other races to do. I think Disney has some very serious runners in fact.

 

[Waiting2goback]

 

[Keels]

You didn't ask me, but I have done Princess weekend for the last 3 years, and I'm in a lot of Facebook groups for it. I think the issues are they there are a lot of people who are new runners or aren't runners at all participating. This means there can be some people with little or no etiquette whatsoever. In addition, the official merch can be a madhouse, because that's the focus for a lot of people. All of that being said, I have never had a bad experience and will keep dong it as long as I can afford it. Maybe I'm lucky, maybe it's because I try not to let other people's issues affect me, maybe it's a little of both.

This.

And on 10K day this year (I did all three races), as I approached sweep spots (and the accompanying Parade Bus) - I witnessed SO many women just waiting for the bus. Standing in line, sitting on the ground, etc. And this was before the 5K mark and I was in Corral C for the 10K. It was downright pathetic to me, especially when the 10K sells out SO quickly. I'm not going to post it here, but I took a picture on the run as I passed the 5K mat and there were easily 50 women waiting in line for the "Parade Bus" and the race officials there were telling them they weren't opening the bus for another 60 minutes and that they could finish the race, but these ladies chose to stand there. It was ridiculous.

Also, some of the super b!+chy on-course behavior I witnessed from people was, not only appalling, but completely unacceptable. Like yelling ugliness at an overweight woman struggling to keep moving while her pants were falling down, and that they "were blind" having to watch her - meanwhile these hags were walking with heat sheets wrapped around them, so ...

 

[disneydaydreamer33]

Also, some of the super b!+chy on-course behavior I witnessed from people was, not only appalling, but completely unacceptable. Like yelling ugliness at an overweight woman struggling to keep moving while her pants were falling down, and that they "were blind" having to watch her - meanwhile these hags were walking with heat sheets wrapped around them, so ...

That is just so disappointing. It's crazy to me that people stay in a "mean girls-middle school" attitude as adults!