sure wish parents would watch their kids

[LSUmiss]

What exactly do you think I’ve done to harm my child?

maybe nothing. But weren’t you the one who answered that you would tell your child to “pound sand” if he said you had hurt him in some way?

 

[DCLMP]

maybe nothing. But weren’t you the one who answered that you would tell your child to “pound sand” if he said you had hurt him in some way?

I’ve never hurt my kids. My kids aren’t sensitive enough to get their feelings hurt over something trivial.

 

[dez1978]

Sorry but I think that experience is truly heartbreaking. I would argue you were successful despite this treatment & lack of an understanding of your challenges not because of it.

But clearly those aren’t his feelings on it and his feelings are what matters in his experiences. Not yours. You can’t project how you feel about something on others and expect that they will feel the same. You make it out to be a victim/survivor situation and clearly it wasn’t. We all get to choose how we want to feel about our life experiences.

 

[momz]

this thread has really taken off and I am late to the game. I haven't read all the previous posts. But I would like to comment on the concept of "spare the rod, spoil the child". A lot of people use this to condone spanking. I couldn't disagree more, and here is why.

This adage was written in a time when shepherding was commonplace. Every human on earth was familiar with the concept of using a rod/staff to correct the animals in their care. Now, think about how a herder uses this tool. They do not use it to literally beat the animals. nope nope nope. they use the rod to push and prod the animal in the direction they want it to go.

I think that "spare the rod, spoil the child" is a metaphor and is intended to encourage parents to guide their children in the right direction. I completely disagree with using it as an excuse to spank. I did not spank my kids, but they were disciplined. Spanking does not impart wisdom.

 

[TLSnell1981]

While it's possible they didn't notice, I'd say there's also a possibility they DID notice and were looking for the child & stroller in the wrong direction.

DS got lost as a toddler in/near the Pooh play area. He was actually just telling the story again yesterday. He lost sight of us & we lost sight of him. He went were he remembered us being, we were looking were we last saw him. Obviously we got reunited (with no one else's help), but there were probably people judging us "how did they not notice?".

Or they may have given them a "nudge" and run in the opposite direction. Anything is possible!

BTW... we used a child harness for young children in crowded areas (yep here we go). A parent and child can get separated in the blink of an eye. It's especially easy to get distracted in a overly stimulated situation I.e. a playground and/or Disney.

 

[LSUmiss]

I’ve never hurt my kids. My kids aren’t sensitive enough to get their feelings hurt over something trivial.

Or they know you are not receptive to listening to them express themselves so they don’t bother

 

[lowlight]

They do not use it to literally beat the animals.

You should have read all the posts before commenting. This entire debate happened because someone mentioned whooping their child, which they admitted they didn’t mean literally. It’s a common way of saying spanking, most people know this. Here’s my response to you- it’s ok to say you don’t like spanking and you think it’s the wrong way of parenting, but to use a word with negative connotations like “beat” like others have and label those parents as abusers is purposefully inflammatory. Nobody here has said they beat their children. This whole thread would have been four pages long if people had a respectful difference of opinion instead of telling people they are terrible and to stick to houseplants (not you, prior posters).

 

[LSUmiss]

But clearly those aren’t his feelings on it and his feelings are what matters in his experiences. Not yours. You can’t project how you feel about something on others and expect that they will feel the same. You make it out to be a victim/survivor situation and clearly it wasn’t. We all get to choose how we want to feel about our life experiences.

But clearly those aren’t his feelings on it and his feelings are what matters in his experiences. Not yours. You can’t project how you feel about something on others and expect that they will feel the same. You make it out to be a victim/survivor situation and clearly it wasn’t. We all get to choose how we want to feel about our life experiences.

I don’t expect his feelings to change & wouldn’t ever suggest that. However, I still find what he described heartbreaking & the only reason I commented is b/c of his insinuation that sometimes kids “need” to be treated the way he was treated. He, of course, has the right to feel however he does about his win experience. And, he has also since clarified his opinion about how it would work for other kids with similar issues.

 

[dreamer17555]

Please know I am not criticizing, nor judging, your parenting style. You do you. I am just saying that mine is different, and that there are a range of styles.

But still curious, what happened to the hair pullee? How did you handle it in that moment when she was presumably hurt and crying, but you were holding and rocking your son on the floor?

The reason I am asking is because someone I am close with had a child in a similar situation. The special needs child got a lot of the attention, while the neurotypical child often didn’t. That dynamic played itself out for so long that the neurotypical child later separated from the family.

I would say the hair pullee deserved some TLC right then and there, too. And to see that the child was corrected who did that to her. It’s as important as anything else we’re talking about. It’s not out of the realm of discussion to say that children all need to learn it’s not right to pull hair, and that there are consequences for that type of bad behavior.

There may be resentments from corporal punishments in families, but what about resentments that crop up in other ways, oftentimes as a result of parenting style? What about equity in families? Just thinking out loud here.

I will start by saying my children are 5 years apart in age. If they had been closer things would have been a lot harder and I applaud families raising special needs children with a neurotypical child close to their age.

When she got her hair pulled the first thing I focused on was stopping the action. Removing my son's hand and sitting with him (while he usually thrashed and I would keep gently putting his hands back in his lap). I would also immediately talk to his sister (while holding her brother) and make sure she was okay. If my husband was home we would divide and conquer but if it was just me I would focus on stopping the behavior while also trying to verbally comfort her and point out to her brother that he had hurt her and that wasn't OK.

Once her brother was calm and could be seated without thrashing my next move was to always snuggle her and tell her how I was sorry that had happened to her and how even though he was learning and loved her that it wasn't okay to hurt her like that. We would also repeat that conversation before bed.

And it is HARD to balance the needs of children. For instance, my daughter was a ballet dancer at an extremely elite level before an injury in her senior year ended things. My son was often carted to and from her dance classes. I would be gone most weekends in January and February with her while she auditioned for summer intensives. On the flip side when she was younger we had her go to his EC school activities and miracle league games. She spent plenty of time in the car as I took him to OT, PT, and speech therapy.

Not once for Christmas have I spent close to the same amount on them, though they each got the same number of gifts. One year she got a Macbook and he got Star Wars toys because that was what would bring them the most joy. The next year she helped me secretly redo his room for Christmas (complete with millennium falcon bed and tie fighter desk) while she got clothes she loved.

We went to Disney with just my daughter for several years when my son was still too easily overwhelmed to enjoy it. Now he is being home-schooled, I take him on Disney cruises that she can't always go on with us because of school or work (right now she is working for Disney as part of the college program). But then again when her car broke? I helped her with half the cost... My son on the other hand very well might not have the ability to drive, we just don't know yet.

It is a balancing act for sure. I am not sure I am doing it right at all. I am just trying and if it turns out I made the wrong call, I will apologize and work to do better.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I will start by saying my children are 5 years apart in age. If they had been closer things would have been a lot harder and I applaud families raising special needs children with a neurotypical child close to their age.

When she got her hair pulled the first thing I focused on was stopping the action. Removing my son's hand and sitting with him (while he usually thrashed and I would keep gently putting his hands back in his lap). I would also immediately talk to his sister (while holding her brother) and make sure she was okay. If my husband was home we would divide and conquer but if it was just me I would focus on stopping the behavior while also trying to verbally comfort her and point out to her brother that he had hurt her and that wasn't OK.

Once her brother was calm and could be seated without thrashing my next move was to always snuggle her and tell her how I was sorry that had happened to her and how even though he was learning and loved her that it wasn't okay to hurt her like that. We would also repeat that conversation before bed.

And it is HARD to balance the needs of children. For instance, my daughter was a ballet dancer at an extremely elite level before an injury in her senior year ended things. My son was often carted to and from her dance classes. I would be gone most weekends in January and February with her while she auditioned for summer intensives. On the flip side when she was younger we had her go to his EC school activities and miracle league games. She spent plenty of time in the car as I took him to OT, PT, and speech therapy.

Not once for Christmas have I spent close to the same amount on them, though they each got the same number of gifts. One year she got a Macbook and he got Star Wars toys because that was what would bring them the most joy. The next year she helped me secretly redo his room for Christmas (complete with millennium falcon bed and tie fighter desk) while she got clothes she loved.

We went to Disney with just my daughter for several years when my son was still too easily overwhelmed to enjoy it. Now he is being home-schooled, I take him on Disney cruises that she can't always go on with us because of school or work (right now she is working for Disney as part of the college program). But then again when her car broke? I helped her with half the cost... My son on the other hand very well might not have the ability to drive, we just don't know yet.

It is a balancing act for sure. I am not sure I am doing it right at all. I am just trying and if it turns out I made the wrong call, I will apologize and work to do better.

Fair enough. I appreciate your answering. It certainly is very hard.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

You should have read all the posts before commenting. This entire debate happened because someone mentioned whooping their child, which they admitted they didn’t mean literally. It’s a common way of saying spanking, most people know this. Here’s my response to you- it’s ok to say you don’t like spanking and you think it’s the wrong way of parenting, but to use a word with negative connotations like “beat” like others have and label those parents as abusers is purposefully inflammatory. Nobody here has said they beat their children. This whole thread would have been four pages long if people had a respectful difference of opinion instead of telling people they are terrible and to stick to houseplants (not you, prior posters).

Just want to make sure I have this right. You don’t think it would be better for someone to get a philodendron instead if they’re the type who would be tempted to shake a baby and cause brain damage in a moment of anger/frustration?

 

[momz]

You should have read all the posts before commenting. This entire debate happened because someone mentioned whooping their child, which they admitted they didn’t mean literally. It’s a common way of saying spanking, most people know this. Here’s my response to you- it’s ok to say you don’t like spanking and you think it’s the wrong way of parenting, but to use a word with negative connotations like “beat” like others have and label those parents as abusers is purposefully inflammatory. Nobody here has said they beat their children. This whole thread would have been four pages long if people had a respectful difference of opinion instead of telling people they are terrible and to stick to houseplants (not you, prior posters).

spanking is applying a physical blow to the body of a child. Typically the bottom, but it makes no difference. It is a way to exert dominance over a child. I will stand my statement that spanking does not instill wisdom.

 

[dreamer17555]

You should have read all the posts before commenting. This entire debate happened because someone mentioned whooping their child, which they admitted they didn’t mean literally. It’s a common way of saying spanking, most people know this. Here’s my response to you- it’s ok to say you don’t like spanking and you think it’s the wrong way of parenting, but to use a word with negative connotations like “beat” like others have and label those parents as abusers is purposefully inflammatory. Nobody here has said they beat their children. This whole thread would have been four pages long if people had a respectful difference of opinion instead of telling people they are terrible and to stick to houseplants (not you, prior posters).

I don't believe I have used the word beat but I will go back and check. I have said hit, physical violence, corporal punishment, and physical punishment which can all be applied to spanking as well as other types of hitting (someone said something about a hit across the beak and I am honestly still wondering if they meant slapping a child across the face or not)

However I am living in the South and "whooping" here can mean anything from a spank to full on abuse. My ex's family said they whooped their children but in today's world CPS would have been involved. That word has more meaning than just spank.

I also don't think anyone has said don't parent and raise houseplants but there are some of us who wish children would not be subjected to physical punishment or yelling...

ETA- Okay until the post that just went up about better to raise a plant vs shake a baby and I have to say I agree with that... if you can't regulate your emotions to the point you could seriously injure an infant you might not be ready to be a parent...

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I don't believe I have used the word beat but I will go back and check. I have said hit, physical violence, corporal punishment, and physical punishment which can all be applied to spanking as well as other types of hitting (someone said something about a hit across the beak and I am honestly still wondering if they meant slapping a child across the face or not)

However I am living in the South and "whooping" here can mean anything from a spank to full on abuse. My ex's family said they whooped their children but in today's world CPS would have been involved. That word has more meaning than just spank.

I also don't think anyone has said don't parent and raise houseplants but there are some of us who wish children would not be subjected to physical punishment or yelling...

Hi, it was me! I’m copy/pasting my earlier comment to Sam:

“My comment about sticking with houseplants was in response to the conversation up to that point where people had discussed shaking babies, kids triggering a furiousness in you that nothing else can, the assumption that childcare professionals would also resort to physically lashing out… I said if child behavior can push someone over the edge like that, they might be better off sticking to houseplants. In the interest of clarity, let me go ahead and throw down this bold opinion for all to see: Anyone who thinks a crying baby will make them feel so much anger or frustration that they’d be tempted to shake the baby until they cause brain damage should get a philodendron instead.”

I didn’t think that last line would be a controversial statement but hey, this is the DIS!

 

[sam_gordon]

I didn’t think that last line would be a controversial statement but hey, this is the DIS!

It's a problem with messaging as communication. Not calling anyone in particular out, but sometimes IDEAS/THOUGHTS are not communicated well. The writer thinks they've explained things well, but the reader(s) didn't "get" the explanation. It doesn't help that there's generally no inflection to the written word.

When I first read your "house plant" post, I thought you were saying anyone who SPANKS (intentional inflection lol) a child shouldn't be a parent. When I tried to clarify, *I* (another intentional inflection ) didn't explain what I was trying to very well and you couldn't understand why I had a problem with your statement.

 

[lowlight]

I lack what perspective? What it’s like to be so overwhelmed and unable to cope with my kids that I lose control and common sense and start physically lashing out at them? If child behavior has the ability to push you over the ledge like that, you probably aren’t cut out to be a parent. Stick with houseplants.

I didn’t think that last line would be a controversial statement but hey, this is the DIS!

I feel like you are trying to walk back your comment. I was talking about spanking and you replied to me, I never mentioned shaking babies. Just own your comment, it’s ok if you feel that way. I don’t think you are a horrible person, we just disagree.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I feel like you are trying to walk back your comment. I was talking about spanking and you replied to me, I never mentioned shaking babies. Just own your comment, it’s ok if you feel that way. I don’t think you are a horrible person, we just disagree.

The conversation was all over the place and was including spanking, swatting, hitting, slapping, how nothing can trigger anger in you like your kids can, using implements like switches, belts, and wooden spoons, etc. Then it went like this, below. You quoted a snippet of my post where I was talking about general violence towards children, including babies, and told me I had no perspective, apparently, if my children had never stressed me to the brink of losing control.

And that shows how those without kids can’t really say what they would do, I can’t even imagine being upset enough with my dog to want to hit her, kids can make you so furious. When mine were babies there were times I’d put them in their cribs and walk away to compose myself, knowing I was just tired, there is a reason for shaken babies, and glad I was a SAHM, I don’t know if I would trust a full time caregiver with my kids (they had sitters for a few hours). You can’t compare the emotions your kids can cause (good or bad) with those you get from pets (and I LOVE my dog).

Why is it so hard for people to believe that some people just aren’t prone to violence? Personally, I’ve never been in, nor can I even imagine, any scenario where I become so upset by the behavior of a baby that I feel the urge to shake, spank, or use any kind of physical force on them. In my worst, most exhausted, most stressful moments of parenting young children the thought has never even crossed my mind. Simply never a consideration. It’s just not in my nature to respond that way. Even if the thought had crossed my mind, I wouldn’t choose that option because I’d recognize that A) the kid is just doing what kids do, and B) getting physical with them is not going to make the situation better, only worse.

I’m also a SAHM, so I’ve never had to hire a caretaker for my kids (they’ve yet to even have babysitters to this point). I’m glad, because I’m realizing I might have been naive in assuming that people who chose that as a career would actually like children enough not to be inclined to strike them and would be trained in and employ effective childcare techniques.

I’ve never been the caretaker of a disabled adult or an ailing parent with Alzheimer’s, for example. However, I can confidently say that, were I ever in that position, I wouldn’t respond by lashing out physically towards them, no matter how stressful it became. If I started having those uncharacteristic thoughts, I would realize I was in wayyyy over my head and seek help. Do other people agree they could say the same? Or does the whole “you can’t say you wouldn’t turn to violence until you try it” apply to those scenarios, too?

It’s actually boggling my mind to realize there are so many people out there who cannot grasp the concept that some people don’t, won’t, and have no desire to use physical force against their children. And yes, you can know what kind of person you are before having kids yourself.

FWIW, my kids have never done anything to push me to the levels of frustration and stress I felt with our last dog and his extreme separation anxiety. I’d take ten of them over one of him any day. And I’ll always show my kids at least as much respect as I’d give a dog.

*This is where you quoted my last paragraph talking about my dog’s separation anxiety being more stressful to deal with than my kids, and then you said:

I think that’s the most important part of your statement. You are admitting you lack the perspective.

I lack what perspective? What it’s like to be so overwhelmed and unable to cope with my kids that I lose control and common sense and start physically lashing out at them? If child behavior has the ability to push you over the ledge like that, you probably aren’t cut out to be a parent. Stick with houseplants.

All perspective. Every ounce of it.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

It's a problem with messaging as communication. Not calling anyone in particular out, but sometimes IDEAS/THOUGHTS are not communicated well. The writer thinks they've explained things well, but the reader(s) didn't "get" the explanation. It doesn't help that there's generally no inflection to the word.

When I first read your "house plant" post, I thought you were saying anyone who SPANKS (intentional inflection lol) a child shouldn't be a parent. When I tried to clarify, *I* (another intentional inflection ) didn't explain what I was trying to very well and you couldn't understand why I had a problem with your statement.

I think people are just more resistant to plant ownership than I realized.

 

[DCLMP]

Or they know you are not receptive to listening to them express themselves so they don’t bother

You seem to make a lot of assumptions about my relationship with my kids. It’s kind of funny since you know nothing about our family dynamics or how they have been raised.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Or they know you are not receptive to listening to them express themselves so they don’t bother

I think that there is a *ton* of this kind of response from kids who believe they aren't being heard, or listened to by their parents. They just begin to clam up. It can be perceived by the parent as a "toughness" or a "my kid isn't that sensitive"....or "not a snowflake"....that they can take it/handle the situation. Those are the kids who stop talking to their parents about some things, sometimes the big things...because they parent has sent out the message that the topic is trivial. And that can lead to big problems....I've seen in many times in my own extended family and with friends as well.