sure wish parents would watch their kids

[fly girl]

@Dznypal, I bet you would have never guessed your thread would evolve from kids on a bus to dog biting.

Gotta love the Dis!

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Btw @TipsyTraveler I’m so sorry to hear your experience has shied you away from dogs right now. It sounds like you have your hands pretty full at the moment, but I hope that, in the future, if you decide to get another dog, that you can find a one who’s a good fit with your family.

Thanks. After 38 years living and working with dogs, and especially after my experience with our last one, I’m just burned out on them. I’m going to be a cat person for a long while.

Edited because I can’t calculate my own age.

 

[dreamer17555]

@dreamer17555 I tried to send you a private message, but I do not appear to be able to. I certainly hope I have not offended you in any way with my comments during this discussion. Your comments show you to be extremely thoughtful and articulate. (unfortunately, I generally am not) I am in no way questioning you parenting or asserting that you are not a qualified parent. I hope this is not how my comments sounded. You are for sure a wonderful person who has been an exceptional mother to your children. Please excuse me if I offended you. I am trying to make Disney connections, not alienate nice folks.

I am told I should keep my comments to a more basic nature, especially when they contain person opinions. (my wife). At 50+ I still need to be told some things.

No issues at all! I am not going to say I agree with physical punishment (especially for ASD kiddos) but I very much appreciate your point of view.

Honestly while I don't agree with physical punishment (or yelling for that matter) as long as a parent is being introspective and would be okay admitting to potential harm if their child came to them as an adult and said X action hurt me then I think that's all we can do. For example, with my oldest I sleep trained her. It was absolutely the thing that was strongly recommended by many experts. I actually might have cried as much as she did while sitting in the hall and listening to her. Now there are studies showing that sleep training might actually do some harm. That was not my intention but I can make space that even my best might not be enough to give my children all they need.

I think as long as we all do our best, admit when we make mistakes (no matter how well intended), and correct future actions that's all that can be expected of us.

As for the PMing- I tried to PM you but couldn't either. I have been around Disboards a long time but I think there used to be a threshold of posts you had to make to be able to PM... or maybe my account is set wrong. No idea...

 

[WEDcryoHEAD]

Welcome to the boards. It’s important to hear differing viewpoints. I’m glad you’re here and helping us to see there’s another side. Thank you.

Thank you for the kindness. I feel like I offended some members. Not a good feeling!!!

I need to keep focused on things like my favorite resort or Sanaa Vs. Whispering Canyon. Stay out of the deeper / philosophical discussions.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Thanks. After 36 years living and working with dogs, and especially after my experience with our last one, I’m just burned out on them. I’m going to be a cat person for a long while.

I can understand. I lived with a reactive one (to other dogs) for ten years and I made sure I didn’t get another reactive one! I guess dogs are a lot like kids in some ways, it’s hard to say for sure how they’re going to be, so you just roll with it. But it can take its toll.

 

[WEDcryoHEAD]

No issues at all! I am not going to say I agree with physical punishment (especially for ASD kiddos) but I very much appreciate your point of view.

Honestly while I don't agree with physical punishment (or yelling for that matter) as long as a parent is being introspective and would be okay admitting to potential harm if their child came to them as an adult and said X action hurt me then I think that's all we can do. For example, with my oldest I sleep trained her. It was absolutely the thing that was strongly recommended by many experts. I actually might have cried as much as she did while sitting in the hall and listening to her. Now there are studies showing that sleep training might actually do some harm. That was not my intention but I can make space that even my best might not be enough to give my children all they need.

I think as long as we all do our best, admit when we make mistakes (no matter how well intended), and correct future actions that's all that can be expected of us.

As for the PMing- I tried to PM you but couldn't either. I have been around Disboards a long time but I think there used to be a threshold of posts you had to make to be able to PM... or maybe my account is set wrong. No idea...

THANK YOU!

 

[dez1978]

I like to have my ideas challenged and to challenge other ideas. Isn’t that part of growing and learning?

I'd say the fact that we don't seem to be able to have a civil debate with others that we disagree with anymore is one of our biggest problems as a society. Big issues have become so divisive that we cannot discuss our thoughts or ideas without being called names or immediately turning into an arguement. Too much of the "if you don't agree with me we can't be friends!"

I can only speak from personal experience. I was a difficult kid. I fall in the category of having an autism spectrum disorder, with the added bonus of ADHD. My father was a police officer who had also been in the military and needless to say, I was raised in, lets say, a strict environment. I acted out frequently and in the 70's and 80's ADHD and ASD, was not understood as it is today. I was called a hyper child and just plain bad sometimes. I was a good student (straight A's) but acted out in school quite frequently. Needless to say I got in my fair share of trouble at home and in school.

Again I can only speak from my personal experience. My father spanked, grabbed, slapped, held me down, etc., quite frequently. When it was going on I never quite liked it, but I think that's the point. I was not supposed to like it. I was supposed to feel uncomfortable. I was supposed to feel like I disappointed my parents in some way. This is how I learned to control my behaviors and to see how I was doing things that were not like the other kids and to curtail my behaviors and act in the way my parents wanted. By my middle teens I began to get it. I began to see how hyper activity (now I understand as ADHD) was getting me into trouble. I began to find outlets for my energy and negative behaviors. I also made sure that I behaved in ways that my parents expected and that made them happy. I in return was given positive feedback that encouraged me to continue to act in the ways that pleased my parents. This is how the world works on a larger scale. I saw this in College and in the work force. Act accordingly, please your bosses, produce and you will be rewarded. If you do not act accordingly, or do not please your boss or produce at work or in school, then you get negative feedback. This is essentially how animals learn behavior. Humans are no different. I can say that if it were not for spanking, corporal punishment etc. I would have turned out totally different. I need that type of feedback. I truly did. There were times when my my mother and teachers etc. tried the softer methods of discipline and I would walk all over them and manipulate them. As I said I was a smart kid. I was also a manipulative kid and I could and still ca sense weakness. In my opinion I was a kid that only responded to physical correction. I can say with certainty that if my father did not have a strong hand with me that I would not be the successful adult I am today. I have seen to many kids that were not disciplined and that did not have that small sense of fear of their parents that turned out horribly. Especially children with ADHD and ASD.

I understand that this take will not be accepted very well by most of the comments I have read prior to mine. I understand the studies and I have read them as well. This has been a topic that has been with me my whole life as I strove to understand why I was different than my peers. Why, did I have trouble socializing, why did I have trouble sitting and listening like all of the other children. Why could I draw a picture, bother my classmates, throw things around the room and still et the highest grades on the test. Hell, half the time I heard the lessons seated (actually pacing in the hallway outside of the room) and still got the best grades. I knew I was different, I just didn't know why. My parents and my father, in particular understood this as well. My father nurtured the things that would go on to make me successful and he made me aware of the things that were going to keep me from being successful. He taught me ways to cope with and outlets for my heightened energy levels. He corrected bad behaviors, yes with corporal punishment. He always explained to me why I was being disciplined. I was never left feeling like I was being hit for no reason or that I was just plain being abused. I understood this was something that was occurring because of something that I had done and that if I was able to learn from it and correct my behavior than it would not happen again. My father was true to his word and as I began to act out less, I was punished much less. These were some of the most important lessons I have learned in my life and for me they would not have sunk in without the physical discomfort and feeling of disappointment that I felt at the time. I say discomfort, as I was never really in any pain looking back. I was never abused or left with and marks or scars. I dare say that I was also not left with any mental scars or trauma as many are saying comes with corporal punishment. Again, in my experience, I look back on my upbringing with fondness and my father was the most influential person in my life.

I know this has been long winded and is an exceptionally long post. (sadly, another consequence of my ASD). I apologize for those who have stuck with me and read through this. I will close by saying that I have a masters degree in occupational therapy, I have a undergrad degree in child psychology and I work in early childhood intervention, with child study teams for children with CP, ASD, ADHD, genetic disorders and a multitude of other factors that cause significant delays in early childhood development. In working with parents that are dealing with children with an ASD or ADHD, I often tell them that children need discipline and discipline is not abuse. Discipline is used to provide feedback and correction for negative behaviors. While there are many passive measures that can be used to provide this type of feedback as well, they often do not work with kids that have extreme poor impulse control. Used and structured correctly, corporal punishment is affective and should never be ruled out 100%. Every circumstance is different and every child is different. Some need this type of punishment. For those who argue the science is settled, this is untrue. The science is never settled. There are arguments on both sides and I am sure I could site just as many studies from psychologists that argue for as there are who argue against. The reason you only see the multitude of those that argue against, is because they fit with the media narrative that corporal punishment is bad. Unfortunately, the predominance of the media has a liberal bias, so that falsely gives an appearance of settled science. As someone else said, If my opinion differs from yours, than its wrong. That, again, unfortunately, is what society has come to. There is no more debate or diversity of thought when it comes to certain issues. IMHO

Thank you for sharing this. As a mom with ADHD, tho i was just inattentive not hyper, with a son with ADHD it's always a struggle to know if I'm doing the right thing. He has poor impulse control and is loud and crazy at times and doesn't even realize it. I was always just told if I'd work harder or stop being lazy I'd be good at whatever it was. I wan't diagnosed until I was almost 40, when my son was diagnosed and suddenly it all made sense. We see a child psychologist and he has said many of the same things you have said.

I have to speak up about the idea that ASD kids might need harsh or strict environments to thrive, especially ones with physical punishment. I am glad it worked for you @WEDcryoHEAD , however as someone with an ASD kiddo and one with ADHD neither of mine needed that type of physical punishment to make them learn how to behave.

All kids are different. Just because neither of your kids needed that does not mean no kids will ever benefit from it. What works for your kids might not work for someone elses. Lord knows I've tried so many different methods of discipline or correction or reward/consequences and whatever else. Heck even what works for one behavior for one kid might not work for another behavior for the same kid. Parenting is trial and error, and each family has to figure out what works for them. We aren't all going to agree on what is right or wrong and thats ok.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Thank you for the kindness. I feel like I offended some members. Not a good feeling!!!

I need to keep focused on things like my favorite resort or Sanaa Vs. Whispering Canyon. Stay out of the deeper / philosophical discussions.

Nah. I really think that part of what offends people around here is posting style (sarcasm, criticism, name calling - all the things “not allowed” here). You have a nice posting style, so there’s no reason you shouldn’t share your viewpoints, even if not everyone agrees, or you get some pot shots. It’s not a bad place to hang out. You can have some fun and learn a lot, as well!

 

[dreamer17555]

Thank you for the kindness. I feel like I offended some members. Not a good feeling!!!

I need to keep focused on things like my favorite resort or Sanaa Vs. Whispering Canyon. Stay out of the deeper / philosophical discussions.

If that’s what you need to do for your own well-being and mental health that’s fine but just letting you know I appreciated your point of you even if I didn’t always agree with it.

 

[dreamer17555]

All kids are different. Just because neither of your kids needed that does not mean no kids will ever benefit from it. What works for your kids might not work for someone elses. Lord knows I've tried so many different methods of discipline or correction or reward/consequences and whatever else. Heck even what works for one behavior for one kid might not work for another behavior for the same kid. Parenting is trial and error, and each family has to figure out what works for them. We aren't all going to agree on what is right or wrong and thats ok.

Absolutely all kids are different. I personally don’t feel comfortable for physical punishment for ASD kiddos who might have low to non verbal skills because they cannot advocate for themselves if it crosses into abuse. I also feel that way for small children who cannot voice what is happening to them…

I know what a lot of posters are talking on here is not CPS defined abuse. However there are sadly many special needs kids who are abused because they cannot speak up for themselves. That is why I reacted so strongly to the idea of encouraging physical punishment for those on the spectrum.

I don’t agree with physical punishment. But even I know there’s a world of difference between a calm and collected parent lightly hitting a child vs someone who is emotionally disregulated (due to stress, lack of sleep, etc) hitting a child when angry and while I don’t agree with the first it is the latter that worries me the most.

 

[tazdev3225]

I have read all 25 pages of this thread with some interest but didn't plan on responding until now.

I have 3 children, 8 grandchildren and a great grandson so I am quite familiar with child rearing. My parents were polar opposites when it came to discipline. My mom was a firm believer in "spare the rod spoil the child". I was hit, and not just with her hand, during my childhood. My dad believed in compositions, with minimum word requirements. Honestly, I like my mom's way because one and done. Dads took forever and if he didn't like it you had to write some more.

That being said I raised 3 very different children. My oldest had ADHD and recently he was told he would be diagnosed on the Autism spectrum. Sometimes the only way to get through to him was a whack on the butt as a toddler and as a younger child. He tried to climb out of his bedroom window, so I used an egg to try and explain the consequences. It made him more determined to see if his head really would splatter after a 3-story drop. He found anything he could to get on that windowsill and locking the window didn't work. A swat on his backside got his attention. You could not reason with him but as he got older, we could more often than not. Putting him in time out did nothing because the second he was let out of it he went right back to that behavior. When my son was 9, he went to the stores with some friends. He stole a nickel pack of gum. When I found out after he got home, I took him back to the store where he had to apologize and pay for the gum. He then had a time out where he had to think about the actions and tell why he did what he did, and why it was wrong. At that age I no longer needed to "smack" him because he was old enough to understand that his actions had consequences and he was held accountable for them.

My middle child was a very laid-back kid and from the time she was a toddler the only thing I ever needed for her was a leash for her protection. She tended to wander quite a bit. A raised voice and she was OK.

My youngest was also ADHD and a total daredevil. She was also very defiant at times. My dad tried the holding her til she could be reasoned with approach. She fell asleep in his arms. When she woke up, he tried to reason with her again. She still refused to give in and admit what she did was wrong.

I helped with my grandkids when they were small, they range in age from 8 to 24 years now. My one grandson could drive a saint to drink. He is on the spectrum and my son got a taste of what he was like as a kid. My son has apologized and said he is thankful I tried so hard with him. He learned the tag team method with his wife. Today my grandson is 19 and for the most part respectful.

Another grandson is also on the spectrum but higher functioning. I used a leash on him because honestly it was the only way to keep him safe. He loved butterflies but if one came near him, he ran into the street terrified. He actually played T-Ball attached to my belt loop so I could make sure he was involved in different activities but was also safe., I was his coach. As he got out of the toddler stage this wasn't needed obviously but he still ran into danger. I reasoned with him but it was gone out of his head in seconds. Because of this thread I asked him if he was upset with me doing that to him. He's almost 17 now. His response was "You kept me safe Grandmom because you love me." He also gave up his seats on buses in Disney at the age of 5 and held doors open because he was a "gentleman."

I asked my youngest grandson, who is a handful and gets in trouble more often than his siblings, about the original question. He said my mom and dad would get mad at me and my brother. I then asked him what would they do? He said Dad would probably give me a whack on the butt or take away my iPad, I would rather have the whack on the butt." So I asked him if he minded the "whack on the butt." He said it doesn't hurt but it makes him know he wasn't being good. and taking his iPad just makes him mad and I don't get why they do that. It helps me be good"

My great grandson just turned 2 and his mother gives him a smack on the butt at times. She is from the Dominican Republic and in her culture that is acceptable behavior.

I guess my point is that everyone has their own parenting style. For the original post that started all of this I would have been horrified if my kids acted like that. For all of their faults they knew what was expected of them in public. What worked for one kid didn't work for the others. Did I smack my kids, YES when they were small but only because reasoning with a toddler is nearly impossible, they don't have the maturity level to understand the consequences of their actions. Today I have 3 great adult kids, who have done a terrific job of raising their kids. As far as my parents go, my mom did what she did out of love and thought it was right. She still does. Did it harm me, No. I knew she loved me and wanted me to be the best ME I could be.

 

[WEDcryoHEAD]

I know this is off the original topic and I am the one who has kind of steered it that way over my last couple of posts; but I have to say I think I kind of got triggered by this topic. Having my own experiences with ASD and ADHD, working in early intervention and having my own children, 1 neurotypical and one that is not. I really started thinking of my work, my parenting style and the parenting style of my parents, especially my father. I really appreciate all of the discussion and the differing opinions. It really made me think and even though I tend to, in my own head, consider myself the smartest person in the room, these discussions show me how naïve I really am. As I was once told by the wisest man I ever met (thanks Dad) "You only know what you know and what you know, isn't always the answer to the equation. You may only have some of the terms / components and not the sum. You can't assume you always have the answer."

Needless to say I have thought a lot about this since yesterday. I got a little nostalgic, got some tears on my keyboard and learned some valuable life lessons. I appreciate those of you who challenged me. I offer apologies to anyone I may have offended or angered. I respect everyone and I hope that comes through in what I post.

I want to engage and be enlightened and most of all inspire and spread the Magic. Disney has been so important to my life I want to share that with everyone and interact with those who share the common interest in the man, the mouse, the movies, the characters, the theme parks and the Company. Thanks for your indulgence and your patience. Lastly, my wife said I should change my username as it might be alienating. Please let me know if that is the case.

 

[WEDcryoHEAD]

I have read all 25 pages of this thread with some interest but didn't plan on responding until now.

I have 3 children, 8 grandchildren and a great grandson so I am quite familiar with child rearing. My parents were polar opposites when it came to discipline. My mom was a firm believer in "spare the rod spoil the child". I was hit, and not just with her hand, during my childhood. My dad believed in compositions, with minimum word requirements. Honestly, I like my mom's way because one and done. Dads took forever and if he didn't like it you had to write some more.

That being said I raised 3 very different children. My oldest had ADHD and recently he was told he would be diagnosed on the Autism spectrum. Sometimes the only way to get through to him was a whack on the butt as a toddler and as a younger child. He tried to climb out of his bedroom window, so I used an egg to try and explain the consequences. It made him more determined to see if his head really would splatter after a 3-story drop. He found anything he could to get on that windowsill and locking the window didn't work. A swat on his backside got his attention. You could not reason with him but as he got older, we could more often than not. Putting him in time out did nothing because the second he was let out of it he went right back to that behavior. When my son was 9, he went to the stores with some friends. He stole a nickel pack of gum. When I found out after he got home, I took him back to the store where he had to apologize and pay for the gum. He then had a time out where he had to think about the actions and tell why he did what he did, and why it was wrong. At that age I no longer needed to "smack" him because he was old enough to understand that his actions had consequences and he was held accountable for them.

My middle child was a very laid-back kid and from the time she was a toddler the only thing I ever needed for her was a leash for her protection. She tended to wander quite a bit. A raised voice and she was OK.

My youngest was also ADHD and a total daredevil. She was also very defiant at times. My dad tried the holding her til she could be reasoned with approach. She fell asleep in his arms. When she woke up, he tried to reason with her again. She still refused to give in and admit what she did was wrong.

I helped with my grandkids when they were small, they range in age from 8 to 24 years now. My one grandson could drive a saint to drink. He is on the spectrum and my son got a taste of what he was like as a kid. My son has apologized and said he is thankful I tried so hard with him. He learned the tag team method with his wife. Today my grandson is 19 and for the most part respectful.

Another grandson is also on the spectrum but higher functioning. I used a leash on him because honestly it was the only way to keep him safe. He loved butterflies but if one came near him, he ran into the street terrified. He actually played T-Ball attached to my belt loop so I could make sure he was involved in different activities but was also safe., I was his coach. As he got out of the toddler stage this wasn't needed obviously but he still ran into danger. I reasoned with him but it was gone out of his head in seconds. Because of this thread I asked him if he was upset with me doing that to him. He's almost 17 now. His response was "You kept me safe Grandmom because you love me." He also gave up his seats on buses in Disney at the age of 5 and held doors open because he was a "gentleman."

I asked my youngest grandson, who is a handful and gets in trouble more often than his siblings, about the original question. He said my mom and dad would get mad at me and my brother. I then asked him what would they do? He said Dad would probably give me a whack on the butt or take away my iPad, I would rather have the whack on the butt." So I asked him if he minded the "whack on the butt." He said it doesn't hurt but it makes him know he wasn't being good. and taking his iPad just makes him mad and I don't get why they do that. It helps me be good"

My great grandson just turned 2 and his mother gives him a smack on the butt at times. She is from the Dominican Republic and in her culture that is acceptable behavior.

I guess my point is that everyone has their own parenting style. For the original post that started all of this I would have been horrified if my kids acted like that. For all of their faults they knew what was expected of them in public. What worked for one kid didn't work for the others. Did I smack my kids, YES when they were small but only because reasoning with a toddler is nearly impossible, they don't have the maturity level to understand the consequences of their actions. Today I have 3 great adult kids, who have done a terrific job of raising their kids. As far as my parents go, my mom did what she did out of love and thought it was right. She still does. Did it harm me, No. I knew she loved me and wanted me to be the best ME I could be.

Mic drop. I laughed, I cried, I totally related. I think this might be the comment that ends this discussion. Wow

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I know this is off the original topic and I am the one who has kind of steered it that way over my last couple of posts; but I have to say I think I kind of got triggered by this topic. Having my own experiences with ASD and ADHD, working in early intervention and having my own children, 1 neurotypical and one that is not. I really started thinking of my work, my parenting style and the parenting style of my parents, especially my father. I really appreciate all of the discussion and the differing opinions. It really made me think and even though I tend to, in my own head, consider myself the smartest person in the room, these discussions show me how naïve I really am. As I was once told by the wisest man I ever met (thanks Dad) "You only know what you know and what you know, isn't always the answer to the equation. You may only have some of the terms / components and not the sum. You can't assume you always have the answer."

Needless to say I have thought a lot about this since yesterday. I got a little nostalgic, got some tears on my keyboard and learned some valuable life lessons. I appreciate those of you who challenged me. I offer apologies to anyone I may have offended or angered. I respect everyone and I hope that comes through in what I post.

I want to engage and be enlightened and most of all inspire and spread the Magic. Disney has been so important to my life I want to share that with everyone and interact with those who share the common interest in the man, the mouse, the movies, the characters, the theme parks and the Company. Thanks for your indulgence and your patience. Lastly, my wife said I should change my username as it might be alienating. Please let me know if that is the case.

Don’t overthink it. Just be.

It’s an interesting place here. There are lots of smart people, and lots of funny people, and lots of people with more Disney knowledge than you can imagine, and lots of people who hold no real speciality or significance, ie regular Joe’s. One of our most beloved posters here had lots of spelling errors and at times an offensive posting style, but we learned when we lost him that he was part of what made us so special. So don’t worry too much about any of it. Just continue posting and try to have fun.

 

[LSUmiss]

We all have different opinions regarding what’s harmful to children. None of us knowingly do things to intentionally harm our kids.

I don’t know about none but perhaps most. But weren’t you also the one who said you wouldn’t care if your child told you you had done something to hurt him/her?

 

[LSUmiss]

That’s not what they said, really. This evolved or devolved into a thread about spanking, and the person quoted basically said the experts all agree if you do it you’re a bad parent, end of argument it’s settled science. It’s probably the worst way to debate if you are trying to be intellectually honest, because you’re using an appeal to authority as a “checkmate” to the person you’re talking to. My point remains that science can be wrong wrong and a good scientist would admit the science is never settled and always open to debate, this the examples I gave where broad scientific consensus was reached only to find out years later it was extremely harmful and the experts were wrong. I don’t raise my child according to the science, parenting isn’t something that can be solved and a panacea bottled up for mass consumption.

No I said that with the goal of making the point that if it were even possible that it’s harmful, why would anyone risk that chance on their child/children?? It’s not harmful to not use corporal punishment so why chance it?

 

[LSUmiss]

I can only speak from personal experience. I was a difficult kid. I fall in the category of having an autism spectrum disorder, with the added bonus of ADHD. My father was a police officer who had also been in the military and needless to say, I was raised in, lets say, a strict environment. I acted out frequently and in the 70's and 80's ADHD and ASD, was not understood as it is today. I was called a hyper child and just plain bad sometimes. I was a good student (straight A's) but acted out in school quite frequently. Needless to say I got in my fair share of trouble at home and in school.

Again I can only speak from my personal experience. My father spanked, grabbed, slapped, held me down, etc., quite frequently. When it was going on I never quite liked it, but I think that's the point. I was not supposed to like it. I was supposed to feel uncomfortable. I was supposed to feel like I disappointed my parents in some way. This is how I learned to control my behaviors and to see how I was doing things that were not like the other kids and to curtail my behaviors and act in the way my parents wanted. By my middle teens I began to get it. I began to see how hyper activity (now I understand as ADHD) was getting me into trouble. I began to find outlets for my energy and negative behaviors. I also made sure that I behaved in ways that my parents expected and that made them happy. I in return was given positive feedback that encouraged me to continue to act in the ways that pleased my parents. This is how the world works on a larger scale. I saw this in College and in the work force. Act accordingly, please your bosses, produce and you will be rewarded. If you do not act accordingly, or do not please your boss or produce at work or in school, then you get negative feedback. This is essentially how animals learn behavior. Humans are no different. I can say that if it were not for spanking, corporal punishment etc. I would have turned out totally different. I need that type of feedback. I truly did. There were times when my my mother and teachers etc. tried the softer methods of discipline and I would walk all over them and manipulate them. As I said I was a smart kid. I was also a manipulative kid and I could and still ca sense weakness. In my opinion I was a kid that only responded to physical correction. I can say with certainty that if my father did not have a strong hand with me that I would not be the successful adult I am today. I have seen to many kids that were not disciplined and that did not have that small sense of fear of their parents that turned out horribly. Especially children with ADHD and ASD.

I understand that this take will not be accepted very well by most of the comments I have read prior to mine. I understand the studies and I have read them as well. This has been a topic that has been with me my whole life as I strove to understand why I was different than my peers. Why, did I have trouble socializing, why did I have trouble sitting and listening like all of the other children. Why could I draw a picture, bother my classmates, throw things around the room and still et the highest grades on the test. Hell, half the time I heard the lessons seated (actually pacing in the hallway outside of the room) and still got the best grades. I knew I was different, I just didn't know why. My parents and my father, in particular understood this as well. My father nurtured the things that would go on to make me successful and he made me aware of the things that were going to keep me from being successful. He taught me ways to cope with and outlets for my heightened energy levels. He corrected bad behaviors, yes with corporal punishment. He always explained to me why I was being disciplined. I was never left feeling like I was being hit for no reason or that I was just plain being abused. I understood this was something that was occurring because of something that I had done and that if I was able to learn from it and correct my behavior than it would not happen again. My father was true to his word and as I began to act out less, I was punished much less. These were some of the most important lessons I have learned in my life and for me they would not have sunk in without the physical discomfort and feeling of disappointment that I felt at the time. I say discomfort, as I was never really in any pain looking back. I was never abused or left with and marks or scars. I dare say that I was also not left with any mental scars or trauma as many are saying comes with corporal punishment. Again, in my experience, I look back on my upbringing with fondness and my father was the most influential person in my life.

I know this has been long winded and is an exceptionally long post. (sadly, another consequence of my ASD). I apologize for those who have stuck with me and read through this. I will close by saying that I have a masters degree in occupational therapy, I have a undergrad degree in child psychology and I work in early childhood intervention, with child study teams for children with CP, ASD, ADHD, genetic disorders and a multitude of other factors that cause significant delays in early childhood development. In working with parents that are dealing with children with an ASD or ADHD, I often tell them that children need discipline and discipline is not abuse. Discipline is used to provide feedback and correction for negative behaviors. While there are many passive measures that can be used to provide this type of feedback as well, they often do not work with kids that have extreme poor impulse control. Used and structured correctly, corporal punishment is affective and should never be ruled out 100%. Every circumstance is different and every child is different. Some need this type of punishment. For those who argue the science is settled, this is untrue. The science is never settled. There are arguments on both sides and I am sure I could site just as many studies from psychologists that argue for as there are who argue against. The reason you only see the multitude of those that argue against, is because they fit with the media narrative that corporal punishment is bad. Unfortunately, the predominance of the media has a liberal bias, so that falsely gives an appearance of settled science. As someone else said, If my opinion differs from yours, than its wrong. That, again, unfortunately, is what society has come to. There is no more debate or diversity of thought when it comes to certain issues. IMHO

Sorry but I think that experience is truly heartbreaking. I would argue you were successful despite this treatment & lack of an understanding of your challenges not because of it.

 

[WEDcryoHEAD]

Sorry but I think that experience is truly heartbreaking. I would argue you were successful despite this treatment & lack of an understanding of your challenges not because of it.

I appreciate your taking the time to read my posting. I also appreciate you opinion. I would have to disagree but that is the beauty of America. IMO my parents did everything they could to understand and except me. There was not as much information when I grew up and my parents recognized that I was not typical. They encouraged me to be myself and never knocked my quirks or eccentricities. They found outlets for my high levels of energy and made sure I was consistently socialized, even when I did not want to be. I was never abused or even spanked or struck in a manner that I would call violent. Again, IMO I have suffered no lasting trauma from being physically reprimanded from time to time when my behavior / outbursts called for it. I was never left feeling like I was being spanked or reprimanded for no reason. I was always told what I did, why it was not appropriate and how to make better choices or react in more appropriate ways. I think my parents did a wonderful job and I look back on my childhood fondly. My father passed when I was in my mid 20's and my mother before I had children of my own. I would have had no issues leaving my children with them, had they been around.

I am sure you are a wonderful parent as well and your parenting style I'm sure works for your family. I would never say you are wrong or you should spank your children. Please don't presume that my parents did not understand me or put in the effort to be sympathetic to the challenges I faced. My lived experience was not heartbreaking or traumatic in any way.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

As I pointed out in that comment, my son has special needs. For him being made to sit in a single space, even with me offering comfort to him, is absolutely not anywhere close to a reward. He would grab and pull because he was extremely frustrated (he was non verbal till he was 3, almost 4) and me meeting him with anger vs calm would have escalated the situation. He learned not to pull and grab without needing to hit him or yell at him.

I agree that parenting styles are very different, part of that is because of our own upbringings being different and part of that is because our children are all very different.

Please know I am not criticizing, nor judging, your parenting style. You do you. I am just saying that mine is different, and that there are a range of styles.

But still curious, what happened to the hair pullee? How did you handle it in that moment when she was presumably hurt and crying, but you were holding and rocking your son on the floor?

The reason I am asking is because someone I am close with had a child in a similar situation. The special needs child got a lot of the attention, while the neurotypical child often didn’t. That dynamic played itself out for so long that the neurotypical child later separated from the family.

I would say the hair pullee deserved some TLC right then and there, too. And to see that the child was corrected who did that to her. It’s as important as anything else we’re talking about. It’s not out of the realm of discussion to say that children all need to learn it’s not right to pull hair, and that there are consequences for that type of bad behavior.

There may be resentments from corporal punishments in families, but what about resentments that crop up in other ways, oftentimes as a result of parenting style? What about equity in families? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[DCLMP]

I don’t know about none but perhaps most. But weren’t you also the one who said you wouldn’t care if your child told you you had done something to hurt him/her?

What exactly do you think I’ve done to harm my child?