Splash Mountain- a safe post

GoingSince1990 said:
I had no idea that “Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" had ever been used as a racist taunt.
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I would have no idea, having never experienced racism myself. What I do know though, is that kids are cruel and often taunt with things that don't seem terrible, but the after-effects can be long-lasting. Like the Cast Members in their Disney video sharing childhood experiences about riding bikes or having a friend to play with.

Given that I have experienced light teasing over my name (everytime it's in a song, everyone sings it to me!), being raised in a minority religion/cult, and growing up in poverty, I would not be surprised one little bit if the song had never been used to taunt someone of colour, even if it was in a context of "cheer up, things could be worse!"

example: "those people" is not a racial slur... but it sure does indicate that the person is thinking with a bias!
 
marcyleecorgan said:
I would have no idea, having never experienced racism myself. What I do know though, is that kids are cruel and often taunt with things that don't seem terrible, but the after-effects can be long-lasting. Like the Cast Members in their Disney video sharing childhood experiences about riding bikes or having a friend to play with.

Given that I have experienced light teasing over my name (everytime it's in a song, everyone sings it to me!), being raised in a minority religion/cult, and growing up in poverty, I would not be surprised one little bit if the song had never been used to taunt someone of colour, even if it was in a context of "cheer up, things could be worse!"

example: "those people" is not a racial slur... but it sure does indicate that the person is thinking with a bias!
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The fact that as society, we changed the original lyrics to "eenie-minnie-minni-moe" a long time ago means that we can effectively change something very common for the better. At the very least, the debate over Splash Mountain and the song used within has revealed a long-standing issue that many of us didn't know about or care to address, as we've live in privilege from a racial standpoint.

Not to go off topic, but while "those people" is not specifically a racial slur, it did end the decades-long career of a very popular hockey commentator in Canada. (I won't link here, but Google "Don Cherry" if you're interested.)
 
marcyleecorgan said:
I would have no idea, having never experienced racism myself. What I do know though, is that kids are cruel and often taunt with things that don't seem terrible, but the after-effects can be long-lasting.
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I'm a redhead, so of course I was sometimes teased. I was also really skinny and from a poor family. I usually had out of date, ill-fitting clothes and holes in my shoes. But just because some people cruelly called me Little Orphan Annie doesn't mean there is a thing wrong with Annie. It just means kids are insensitive sometimes. We can't, and shouldn't, remove everything that someone may use as an insult. We need to judge things on their own merit.
 


PollyannaMom said:
That link does not work without a subscription. Do you know if another paper is also covering his story?
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It's letting me through and I don't have a subscription. Let's do it this way (picture at bottom);
Frederick Chambers used to ride Disneyland’s Splash Mountain as a kid with his blind uncle and the experience always made them both uncomfortable.

“He would always call it the racist animal ride,” said Chambers, 22, a Disneyland cast member from Orange. “He could simply hear the fact that these were animal caricatures of people of color. It sounded problematic to him simply coming from an audio perspective. Maybe that’s not what you want in a Disney park.”

Chambers now finds himself at the center of an online debate about the undertones inherent in the Splash Mountain log flume ride based on the controversial 1940s Disney movie “Song of the South.” The film is based on the “Uncle Remus” stories — a collection of folktales from the Southern plantation era compiled by Joel Chandler Harris and published in the 1880s — and has been criticized for perpetuating racist stereotypes.

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An online petition signed by tens of thousands of supporters calls on Disney to change the theme of Splash Mountain to “The Princess and the Frog.” Any re-theme of a Disney theme park attraction would be handled by Walt Disney Imagineering, the creative arm of the company.

The clamor began with a social media post by Chambers detailing his armchair Imagineering proposal for a complete overhaul of Disneyland’s 1989 Splash Mountain log flume ride. His pitch to swap out the “Song of the South” theme for a “Princess and the Frog” backstory created a flurry of social media buzz amid social justice protests across the United States sparked by the May 25 death of George Floyd while in police custody in Minneapolis.

Splash Mountain is a “delightful log flume ride featuring characters and songs from the classic Disney film ‘Song of the South,’” according to the Disneyland website. The ride features more than 100 audio-animatronic characters and a 5-story splashdown finale set to the film’s Oscar-winning song “Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah.”

“It was intriguing to me to see how many people purely had no idea the ‘Song of the South’ was in any way attached to the attraction,” Chambers said in a phone interview. “The attraction is not overtly racist. In the subtext, it is. And that’s where you have the problem.”

Disneyland has not commented on Chambers’ proposal to remake Splash Mountain.

Frederick Chambers at Disneyland as visitor during a Dapper Day event. (Courtesy of Frederick Chambers)

Disney shelved “Song of the South” in the 1980s and the company’s former CEO and current Executive Chairman Bob Iger said the live-action/animated musical film would not appear on the Disney+ streaming service.

“I’ve felt as long as I’ve been CEO that ‘Song of the South’ — even with a disclaimer — was just not appropriate in today’s world,” Iger said during a 2019 shareholder meeting. “It’s just hard, given the depictions in some of those films, to bring them out today without in some form or another offending people. So we’ve decided not to do that.”

“The Princess and the Frog,” released in 2009, was celebrated as Disney’s first animated depiction of an African American princess. The film was nominated for an Academy Award for best animated feature and received two nods in the best original song category for “Almost There” and “Down in New Orleans.”

The online debate that Chambers’ suggestion spawned has grown larger and louder than he expected. His “Princess and the Frog” makeover proposal sparked dueling Change.org petitions — one calling for more diversity in Disney theme park rides and another seeking to keep Splash Mountain as it is. The Splash Mountain re-theme proposal has been reported on by the Washington Post, Hollywood Reporter and Forbes and Chambers has been interviewed about his proposal by CNN and USA Today. In each instance, he strives to make clear his ideas are his alone and he does not speak on behalf of the Walt Disney Company.

“‘Song of the South’ simply isn’t relevant anymore,” Chambers said. “These parks were meant to change and evolve. Walt Disney even acknowledged that. Keeping this monument to a film which is old and has a lot of problems just doesn’t make sense in the modern age.”

Chambers works on the Rise of the Resistance ride in Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge at Disneyland. He previously held positions at the Anaheim theme park as a monorail pilot and submarine helmsman.

Chambers says he always imagines ways to re-theme rides and lands whenever he’s working in the park or visiting Disneyland. The Splash Mountain pitch was just a natural outgrowth of that creative curiosity.

“I was inspired by watching ‘The Imagineering Story’ and how the Imagineers go through the process of pitching their ideas to executives.” Chambers said of the Disney+ docuseries. “In essence, I was trying to distill it down into something that was really consumable by people so I could get the gist of the idea across of how it would work in a practical sense.”

He’s been armchair Imagineering the makeover of Splash Mountain for four years.

“You literally have a majority of the film taking place in the bayou,” Chambers said. “So they match up pretty well.”

A “Princess and the Frog” backstory naturally fits with the Splash Mountain attraction, which already has a bayou aesthetic and is next to New Orleans Square.

“It’s a win-win scenario,” Chambers said. “You take something that’s been problematic in the past and you’re able to replace it with something that is in the present, positive and forward-focused. It also brings more diversity into the park, which is something that is much needed.

“It wouldn’t necessarily be a complete overhaul. You would need to adapt what you already have there.”

SEE ALSO: California developing guidelines for reopening Disneyland and other theme parks

It would be unprecedented for Disney to re-theme one of its classic theme park rides based on a proposal posted on social media by an armchair Imagineer. But these are unprecedented times that have brought an unprecedented response from Disney.

The company has condemned the killing of Floyd in an open letter decrying social injustice and backed it up with a $5 million pledge to nonprofit social justice organizations. A “powerful and very personal” new video released by Disney highlights the “need for greater understanding, unity and action to address racial inequality in our country.”

Chambers is also a Disney employee (albeit a furloughed one, at the moment). It would be easy enough to invite him over to Walt Disney Imagineering in Glendale to expand upon his ideas for a “Princess and the Frog” remake of Splash Mountain.

Disney has updated aging attractions before. Remakes of the Pirates of the Caribbean, It’s a Small World and Twilight Zone: Tower of Terror all brought cries of outrage from die-hard Disney fans.

An immediate overhaul of Splash Mountain is highly unlikely. Disneyland has been closed since mid-March because of the coronavirus outbreak. Disney has announced plans to reopen its Anaheim theme parks on July 17, the 65th anniversary of Disneyland, pending government approval. Disney’s theme park division took a $1 billion hit in operating income in the second quarter due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

“I realize this isn’t a good time for Disney to try and make an overlay or make these changes to their park, but it does seem like the right time morally speaking,” Chambers said.

But if Disneyland ever wants to update Splash Mountain, Chambers is ready to help.

He’s studying project management through Disney’s Aspire college program with plans to minor in art, architecture or design. His goal: To become a Disney Imagineer.

As an armchair Imagineer, Chambers has conceived of plans for completely re-Imagineering Tomorrowland — all with an eye toward leveraging existing Disney science fiction properties and coming in under budget. His Splash Mountain proposal has caused current and former Imagineers to reach out to him — contacts he hopes will allow him to someday realize his dream.

“I definitely think I have something to bring to the table in the future,” Chambers said.
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502260
 


Interesting conversation and I've enjoyed reading other points of view. I love Splash Mountain--probably tied for my favorite ride with Radiator Springs Racers (only rides we will plan trips around their refurb times). I really enjoy the movie Song of the South and watch it from time to time (had to buy a UK VHS and convert from PAL to NTSC). It's been 2 or 3 years since I've seen it so I should probably watch it again so it is more fresh in my mind. But from my perspective, for what it's worth, the stereotypes I remember are rich white people have lost their way and don't know what's important or how to be happy, and don't realize the importance of family, relationships, etc. Uncle Remus is the hero of the story and the one who has it all together, etc. I view Uncle Remus and the other POC and poor whites as employees, and he exercises his right to quit. Sure there's a class system in place, but both whites and POC are shown in the not-rich economic, but happy, class. The stories that are told by Uncle Remus are super cute and teach great lessons about life--I love that the employee/POC/former slave is the one who understands what happiness is. For reference, I've not experienced racism so can't speak to that, and perhaps that disqualifies me from even commenting here. I do know what it's like to grow up poor, an outsider, be made fun of because of my name, and part of a group that still gets made fun of regularly by supposedly tolerant adults. It would be an awesome world where everyone could love everyone else without any bias--I'm trying to get there myself.
 
Interesting what will happen with critter country. Sure it will have "critters" but doesn't really fit the woodland forest animal theme.
 
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TikiTikiFan said:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...fficult-legacy-of-disneys-most-shocking-movie
This article does a nice job of summing up the issues of the film that have been raised. Most notably, the nostalgia for the days of slavery.

ETA: This is interesting, I didn’t know this part.

“An important point to make about Song of the South – and a lot of controversial art, for that matter – is that it’s not an act of PC revisionism to call out its prejudices, because plenty of people were doing so at the time, too. Disney produced the film over the objections of the NAACP and the American Council on Race Relations, and rejected efforts to soften the script by the southern-born writer Dalton Reymond. And it was released to picket lines in some cities and some scathing criticism from reviewers, politicians and other black advocacy groups.”
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Thank you for sharing this very interesting article on the controversial Disney film Song of the South. I've never seen the film, so the article was enlightening. You might be interested in the following article on the source of the film, the Joel Chandler Harris book "Uncle Remus, His Songs and His Sayings: The Folk-Lore of the Old Plantation" which is controversial as well. https://www.post-gazette.com/ae/boo...-history-for-Uncle-Remus/stories/201602210025

 
The Aunt / Uncle added to someone's name. We had our kids using that as a term on endearment. When our kids were little (35 years ago) , we visited a friend of my mother's who was in a nursing home They had met while working in a yarn factory. We all called her Aunt ..... There was a gentleman there that the kids called grampa Frank ....uncle wouldn't work, we already had an uncle Frank in the family.


Funny dumb kid side story with the Aunt / Uncle thing. We grew up really poor. My mother shopped for everything at the Salvation Army Thrift store. The woman who was the manager was named Kathleen. We, as kids, thought this was HER store and we called her Aunt Sally. You know short for Salvation.
 
I've seen the film many times. I own it on DVD. And my kids have seen it. I love the film and I love the ride. Great stories of how to care about each other and doing the right thing. I'm pretty ticked that they're taking out Splash Mt's theme. And my 9yo literally cried for half an hour when I told her Splash Mt was changing. Why? Because it's a great ride with a timeless story that isn't racist or hateful in ANY way. It's the perfect Disney ride, balancing great story telling, wonderful music, and a huge thrill at the end. Doesn't get any better than this ride.

I have no doubt that the P&tF theme will be good. But it will never be as good as it is now. Never.

And I can't post what I'd like to say to the Disney Execs for doing this.
 
Reminder for everyone participating in this thread: The main purpose of this thread isn't for venting or dumping, but for respectful sharing and listening and trying to learn from each other. Please continue to keep this thread focused on the positive things we can learn from each other and the positive ways we can help each other grow to become better people. Thank you!
Now, back to the discussion...
 
RedHotMama said:
I had just typed this comment on a Splash Mountain thread that was going downhill quick. Before I posted it, the thread was removed. Moderators, if you want to remove this, too, I completely understand. But I have another take on Song of the South that I wanted to share.
If anyone comments on this, please keep your head and think twice. (Calling anyone a racist who disagrees with you is against the rules!)

Splash Mountain is only a problem if Song of the South is really an evil story.
I'm wondering how many of those who want it changed have seen the movie. Or are they simply jumping on the bandwagon and think it's bad because someone told them it is?
I've seen it, although it's been years, and think it is a sweet story. Yes, the blacks are shown as a lesser class. They all work for a white family, and they live in small, inferior homes. But that is our history. I don't think it should be erased or forgotten. If black people are to be portrayed from that time and place, this is what it looked like. Well, this is the most positive that it could have looked like; some had it much, much worse.
What I took from the movie was the incredible contrast between the "big house" and the community where the blacks live. Uncle Remus's house is warm, and welcoming, fun, and comfortable (not physically, but emotionally). It is a place where one can learn and be honest, and be yourself. It is safe and loving. The boy's mother and grandmother love him, but their house is formal, and overly strict. They don't listen and they don't teach, only command.
Uncle Remus is the hero of the story. He is extraordinarily patient, long-suffering, kind, loving, and humorous, too! He is a leader and teacher. He chooses to be happy and maintain his self-respect in difficult circumstances. Everyone loves and respects him. I saw him as a role model. He's the one we're rooting for.
There is a power struggle that happens in the movie, between the mother and Uncle Remus. They both are honestly trying to do the right thing. They even love and respect each other, I believe. They just see things differently. And, if I remember correctly, they come to an understanding at the end. Don't we need more of that in the world today, not less?
So yes, if you take this movie as the shallow description of showing blacks beneath whites, yes it does. But look deeper. Learn from our past. Learn from those who chose to rise above their trials. And you might appreciate Splash Mountain even more than you do now.
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I hear what you are saying but the Uncle Remus character is deemed offensive because it portrays the stereotypical subservient, emasculated, step and fetchit, house servant. Lovable and cuddly like a pet.
This wouldn't be as bad if there were other more positive African American portrayals during that era but there were not. It's the same thing we see with the Problem with Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from the Simpsons. Sure Apu is lovable and cuddly and subservient and likeable. But if you watch the Problem with Apu documentary, Indian Americans and Indian Canadians absolutely hate the character, and every one of them was teased growing up about Apu, whether it was someone telling them "Thank you, Come Again", etc.. And the problem was there were no other positive Indian role models in the media to counter this one stereotype.

Gone with the Wind is another example. Great movie and great epic love story, But you have the subservient, asexual Mamie character, Prissy the dumb, irresponsible slave girl, and then there is the emasculated man slave who breaks down crying in front of Ms. Scarlet O'hara. In an era when there were no other positive role models or examples other than the Mamie/Step and Fetchit characters it's a very painful thing to live through as well as reinforcing stereotypes.

So getting rid of the Uncle Remus character, which was invented by a White Man is the appropriate thing to do and getting rid of Song of the South. However we do want to preserve Bre'r Rabbit because Rabbit existed 100's of years before the White Man Joel Chandler Harris wrote his Uncle Remu stories. Bre'r Rabbit was created by African American and West African folklore and fables and is not racist.
 
jo-jo said:
The Aunt / Uncle added to someone's name. We had our kids using that as a term on endearment. When our kids were little (35 years ago) , we visited a friend of my mother's who was in a nursing home They had met while working in a yarn factory. We all called her Aunt ..... There was a gentleman there that the kids called grampa Frank ....uncle wouldn't work, we already had an uncle Frank in the family.


Funny dumb kid side story with the Aunt / Uncle thing. We grew up really poor. My mother shopped for everything at the Salvation Army Thrift store. The woman who was the manager was named Kathleen. We, as kids, thought this was HER store and we called her Aunt Sally. You know short for Salvation.
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It's possible for language to be contextual. Boy/Girl are also considered racial slurs for African Americans for similar reasons. It doesn't make every use of the word "boy" racist, but it does have certain connotations to African Americans. One person's term of endearment is another person's slur, and that doesn't make either of them necessarily wrong. But given the historical context, it's clear which way this one is pointing.
 
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