Splash Mountain- a safe post

[Comicbookmommy]

I don’t have an issue with it being turned into Princess and the Frog, I think it fits great into the area (and I hope this triggers an expansion of New Orleans Square in Disneyland, one of my favorite areas). I like Disney took the opportunity to implement african-american characters into a major attraction. I do have good memories of the Brer Rabbit cartoon, and I am sad to see it go, but Princess and the Frog really does fit in many ways. My only issues are:

1. If they ditch Zip-a-di-do-dah, which is as classic Disney as you can get. It’s like dumping “When you wish upon a star” to me. I hope Disney has the Princess and the Frog characters make the song their own, maybe in a follow up animation short they could show in the ride line. I think it’s the perfect opportunity to take something linked to something offensive of black history, and change and adapt it into something positive. It would be a huge missed opportunity to toss a song away that is strongly linked to classic disney, and not utilize it into something to benefit the black community.

2. James Baskett (the man who played Uncle Remus) was a wonderful actor, and he recieved an Acadamy award for his performance in Song of the South in the 1940’s, a huge accomplishment when racisim was even more pronounced. The fact that the film has been “locked away forever” and everything to do with it banned, means so has his performance and his accomplishment for that performance, which is a bummer. If Disney went the route I mentioned before of adding a P&F animation in the Splash ride-line uptaking the Zip-a-de song, I hope they also find a way to honor his performance in it somehow.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

I don’t have an issue with it being turned into Princess and the Frog, I think it fits great into the area (and I hope this triggers an expansion of New Orleans Square in Disneyland, one of my favorite areas). I like Disney took the opportunity to implement african-american characters into a major attraction. I do have good memories of the Brer Rabbit cartoon, and I am sad to see it go, but Princess and the Frog really does fit in many ways. My only issues are:

1. If they ditch Zip-a-di-do-dah, which is as classic Disney as you can get. It’s like dumping “When you wish upon a star” to me. I hope Disney has the Princess and the Frog characters make the song their own, maybe in a follow up animation short they could show in the ride line. I think it’s the perfect opportunity to take something linked to something offensive of black history, and change and adapt it into something positive. It would be a huge missed opportunity to toss a song away that is strongly linked to classic disney, and not utilize it into something to benefit the black community.

2. James Baskett (the man who played Uncle Remus) was a wonderful actor, and he recieved an Acadamy award for his performance in Song of the South in the 1940’s, a huge accomplishment when racisim was even more pronounced. The fact that the film has been “locked away forever” and everything to do with it banned, means so has his performance and his accomplishment for that performance, which is a bummer. If Disney went the route I mentioned before of adding a P&F animation in the Splash ride-line uptaking the Zip-a-de song, I hope they also find a way to honor his performance in it somehow.

That would defeat the whole purpose of getting rid of splash since the Uncle Remus character created by white guy Joel Chandler Harris is what is considered racist. Bre'r Rabbit was invented by African Americans and West African folklore.

 

[Comicbookmommy]

That would defeat the whole purpose of getting rid of splash since the Uncle Remus character created by white guy Joel Chandler Harris is what is considered racist. Bre'r Rabbit was invented by African Americans and West African folklore.

Sure, I get everything about Uncle Remus. But I don’t see why they can’t give a little nod somewhere to the actor (not the character). It’s just sad that in order to change something to be more positive to black history, they have to erase a black actor’s performance which effectively erases his accomplishment from public view forever. Same with the Bre’r characters. If they’re some of the only (maybe the only?) Disney characters based on lore from African American history, and they themselves singled out from the movie aren’t offensive, why not utilize them the right way to better highlight African American tall tales and better educate future generations on black history? Just seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[mouschievous]

2. James Baskett (the man who played Uncle Remus) was a wonderful actor, and he recieved an Acadamy award for his performance in Song of the South in the 1940’s, a huge accomplishment when racisim was even more pronounced. The fact that the film has been “locked away forever” and everything to do with it banned, means so has his performance and his accomplishment for that performance, which is a bummer. If Disney went the route I mentioned before of adding a P&F animation in the Splash ride-line uptaking the Zip-a-de song, I hope they also find a way to honor his performance in it somehow.

My comment isn't on topic to Splash Mountain, but as someone who is trying to figure out how to make our industry anti-racist, I think it's important to note that he received an honorary Academy Award. He was never considered for the competitive award. The honorary award was given to him 2 years later.

 

[mentos]

Sure, I get everything about Uncle Remus. But I don’t see why they can’t give a little nod somewhere to the actor (not the character).

But that would go against "Rule #1" for Disneyland and parks... that the character is the character, never an actor playing the character. This is consistently (and comically) applied even to adult journalists making inquiries about Mickey Mouse.

Baskett was a great actor that unfortunately took on demeaning roles at the time, but I agree the removal of West African folklore is a complicated matter, at best, when viewing the totality of the ride through the enlightened prism of present day.

My opinion is that it is all (unfortunately) tainted, best to relegate the Eisner-era and Six Flags Over Georgia inspired ride to Yesterland and start fresh.

 

[purplefern]

That’s not what I said so please don’t take it out of context. But POC do feel their experiences are being discredited and especially being labeled as ‘politically correct’ in an effort to ignore real hurt and historical trauma.

Part of the push for conversations like these is for white folks to listen more which is what I meant by saying that’s what I’m trying to do these days. Especially as I contend with my own privilege. I don’t have to worry about going to a theme park and being confronted with racial stereotypes that cause me pain.

So there has never EVER been a "white hick" stereotype in any park? Or a "dumb country bumpkin" stereotype? Or a "snooty Frenchman" stereotype? Or an "apologetic Canadian" stereotype? Or any other number of generally white stereotypes that exist in the world and are used in cartoons and, yes, theme park attractions?

If I, say, was white and grew up on a farm (for extra stereotypes let's say I grew up in the south), could I not find it a bit hurtful that white country people are often portrayed as uneducated (like, say, the Country Bears as a random, non-specific example)? Yet very few people ever bring up these stereotypes.

The world needs to stop acting like there are only "hurtful" stereotypes towards people of color. EVERYONE is stereotyped, every RACE has some kind of connotations to it.

It's the same thing we see with the Problem with Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from the Simpsons. Sure Apu is lovable and cuddly and subservient and likeable. But if you watch the Problem with Apu documentary, Indian Americans and Indian Canadians absolutely hate the character, and every one of them was teased growing up about Apu, whether it was someone telling them "Thank you, Come Again", etc.. And the problem was there were no other positive Indian role models in the media to counter this one stereotype.

Also I have a lot to say in response to that but I'll just link this (warning very long) video reply that someone else has already made:

 

[mentos]

So there has never EVER been a "white hick" stereotype in any park? Or a "dumb country bumpkin" stereotype? Or a "snooty Frenchman" stereotype? Or an "apologetic Canadian" stereotype? Or any other number of generally white stereotypes that exist in the world and are used in cartoons and, yes, theme park attractions?

If I, say, was white and grew up on a farm (for extra stereotypes let's say I grew up in the south), could I not find it a bit hurtful that white country people are often portrayed as uneducated (like, say, the Country Bears as a random, non-specific example)? Yet very few people ever bring up these stereotypes.

The world needs to stop acting like there are only "hurtful" stereotypes towards people of color. EVERYONE is stereotyped, every RACE has some kind of connotations to it.



Also I have a lot to say in response to that but I'll just link this (warning very long) video reply that someone else has already made:

Last I checked, Blacks didn’t lynch white people for whistling at women, nor did they own white slaves. I also don’t recall anywhere in the US constitution where a white person was described as 3/5ths of a person.

White stereotypes are mean and hurt peoples’ feelings, Black stereotypes are rooted in systemic murder, terror, rape, and human subjugation.

 

[Karin1984]

I also don’t recall anywhere in the US constitution where a white person was described as 3/5ths of a person.

Maybe there is more to that, because describing how much you are of a culture is a very American thing to do. It is one thing that always surprises me about Americans. When you hear : 'my grandmother was from Italy, so I am 1/4 Italian, and my great grandfather was from China, so I'm 1/16 Chinese...' I never hear any other country describe themselves like that.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Maybe there is more to that, because describing how much you are of a culture is a very American thing to do. It is one thing that always surprises me about Americans. When you hear : 'my grandmother was from Italy, so I am 1/4 Italian, and my great grandfather was from China, so I'm 1/16 Chinese...' I never hear any other country describe themselves like that.

But there is a big difference between describing your heritage as 1/4 Italian, and your legal status as 3/5 of a person.

 

[mentos]

Maybe there is more to that, because describing how much you are of a culture is a very American thing to do. It is one thing that always surprises me about Americans. When you hear : 'my grandmother was from Italy, so I am 1/4 Italian, and my great grandfather was from China, so I'm 1/16 Chinese...' I never hear any other country describe themselves like that.

But it always adds up to 100%, a whole person. The thing you describe happens quite a bit in countries with a colonial history, unfortunately. European decent imparts an ascending of the hierarchy, so-to-speak.

Blacks were legally subhuman, according to the constitution.

 

[PollyannaMom]

@purplefern and @mentos, I kind of agree with both of you. There are definitely stereotypes about people of all colors, but I also think there are different levels of hurtfulness in stereotypes - some stereotypes are rooted in slavery and outdated laws (and I believe those are worse than the "country bears" type) and some are rooted in modern choices (like a "rapper" cartoon image or something) - so I don't think it's as simple as "all traditionally white stereotypes are of no consequence and all traditionally black stereotypes are based in hate".

But any stereotypes put up a barrier to seeing each person as an individual, so while we may not be able to completely avoid seeing them, we should all try to stop and think before letting them influence our opinions.

 

[theluckyrabbit]

... But any stereotypes put up a barrier to seeing each person as an individual, so while we may not be able to completely avoid seeing them, we should all try to stop and think before letting them influence our opinions.

Agree. And that it would be wise to at least try to see each other with our hearts and minds, not just with our eyes. And to try to listen to each other with our minds turned on, not with our ears and minds automatically turned off (because we think we already know we're right). No one is perfect, and no one should claim to be -- but if we really tried to see and to hear each other, it might be surprising to find out what we really see and hear.

 

[JayMass]

Disney is a business. If I owned a business I would want to be as inclusive as possible because that means I would have the potential to make the most money. Are the country bears redneck stereotype hurting Disney's business? Probably not. Will the continuation of Splash Mt's stereotypes hurt Disney's business? In all likelihood--yes. Will there be a backlash against the changing of Splash Mt? Yes. Will that hurt business? Likely, but only in the short term. That is the simple reason they are changing it.

I have a ton of personal feelings about the changing of Splash Mt. You can read any of my earlier posts in this thread. I think the changing of the ride, although a business decision by Disney, is, in effect, causing white people to at least begin to try to understand the reality that many people in historically disadvantaged groups have been facing for years. This is what I am excited about. There are a lot of overdue conversations about race taking place--and the majority of those are between white people. That is where we, as a country, can actually effect change. White people created and perpetuated the roots of hate in this country and I believe that it is going to be white people who have to do the heavy lifting to eradicate the legacy of racism and hate in this country.

With that said, anyone who would like to have a conversation about race--I'm all in. If you disagree or don't understand why Splash Mt. needs to change and are willing to discuss it with an open mind, feel free to respond to this post. Please know that I am just a white guy in his 40s. I certainly don't have all the answers nor would I pretend to be an expert on race. I'm just a guy who feels passionately that things need to change.