Should DVC eliminate walking?

[zavandor]

But what if only the two pool chairs near the bar are stalked and you can have any other pool chair you want. So to solve the problem with chairs stalkers Disney makes everyone pay $5 per hour to occupy any chair, even those that weren't stalked.

There are some simple ways to resolve the problem with pool chairs and yet Disney doesn't fix it. My fear is that if they try to fix walking, they'd do it just because they can gain something from it.

I agree that the world would be a better place without stalking. Which price are you willing to pay to eliminate it?
I own SSR, I have no reason to walk any room ever, and yet I might be hit by new regulations introduced to fix the problem with 300 rooms (if that) for 4 months a year. I am not ready to pay that price.

 

[Yinn]

As DVC is getting more crowded with more resorts and more owners, it feels like more and more people are taking advantage of walking to circumvent the 11 and 7 month booking windows. While not foolproof, it is the best way to provide insurance that you get a reservation when you want, but to the detriment of other owners.

What do people think about Disney restricting walking? Basically, some rules that allow you to make X number of modifications to a booking date for reasonable accommodations to changes in travel plans, then anything else must go through member services. I think restrictions like this would enable people to update their reservations if they need to change flights, or something happens, or whatever else while preventing walking since someone wouldn't be able to book a reservation and update it every day for months.

<--- This dope clicked on the link thinking that it was going to be a proposal to implement Wall-E style chairs for all DVC owners to eliminate walking!

 

[crisi]

But what if only the two pool chairs near the bar are stalked and you can have any other pool chair you want. So to solve the problem with chairs stalkers Disney makes everyone pay $5 per hour to occupy any chair, even those that weren't stalked.

There are some simple ways to resolve the problem with pool chairs and yet Disney doesn't fix it. My fear is that if they try to fix walking, they'd do it just because they can gain something from it.

I agree that the world would be a better place without stalking. Which price are you willing to pay to eliminate it?
I own SSR, I have no reason to walk any room ever, and yet I might be hit by new regulations introduced to fix the problem with 300 rooms (if that) for 4 months a year. I am not ready to pay that price.

I'd pay the price of no changes to a reservation between 10 and eleven months from check in- except adding days - without cancelling the whole reservation and starting over - between 6 and 7 months at a non home resort. And yes, people with a ton of points would still be able to walk. But I firmly believe people with a ton of points aren't doing the majority of walking, because they have flexibility. Know your start date for your reservation.

And for pool chairs, I'd pay the price of having your stuff moved to lost and found if its unattended for a period of time.

 

[DaveNan]

Eliminating walking and adding restrictions will not change the root of the problem. There are far more members wanting the low point/high value room categories all year round, and especially during DVC peak times of Fall and the first 2 weeks in Dec. No matter what rule is imposed or what method is used, there will not be enough value and club level rooms at AKV, BWV and BLT to fill the need. Some people are not going to get a room they want. The demand exceeds the availability. You could lose to walkers, big point owners, faster internet folks, or just draw the short straw. No system will be fair to everyone, particularly if we define fair as "I get the room I want". I have walked and I have picked up walker droppings. I tend to want to stay in those low point/high value rooms to get the most out of my points. This means I have to plan well ahead and be flexible in my timing. In times I am not flexible in my timing, I don't expect to be in those rooms. No system, other than dramatically shifting the point charts in both season and villa category will start to balance out demand. Eliminate the club and value categories and almost all walking will end. Next make the fall cost as much or more than summer and it will be gone. Is that what we want?

 

[zavandor]

I'd pay the price of no changes to a reservation between 10 and eleven months from check in- except adding days - without cancelling the whole reservation and starting over - between 6 and 7 months at a non home resort.

It doesn't seem you're willing to pay a very big price, given that in other posts you've said you book your home resort at 11 months and don't change it.
But this would impact the hundreds of thousands of people who like the flexibility of their DVC. At 7 months I change my plans in accordance to availability and modify the reservation to add or drop days depending on which rooms pop up. It's likely many do this as well, consolidating single days into larger reservations. Removing the possibility to change the reservation in the first month might cause more checkins and checkouts, increasing everyone dues.
That's exactly what I'm saying: your proposal would cause a lot of harm to many members just so you can have a shot at the cheaper 50 rooms in your home resort.
And sorry to say, you wouldn't probably get them anyway: if you're not willing to put the effort now to walk a reservation, you'll not going to put the effort to book a standard view at 11 months in the split second reservations open. Have you ever used an atomic clock to be sure to click on the exact moment reservations open? Have you ever trialled in the previous days if you can click half a second before it so you can offset the lag from your computer to the DVC server? Can you see yourself do this when a lot of members will try to book too few rooms?

And yes, people with a ton of points would still be able to walk. But I firmly believe people with a ton of points aren't doing the majority of walking, because they have flexibility.

This makes me smile. In your battle for fairness, you are willing to give the very richest people an advantage over everyone else. My definition of fairness is quite different.

 

[crisi]

Eliminating walking and adding restrictions will not change the root of the problem. There are far more members wanting the low point/high value room categories all year round, and especially during DVC peak times of Fall and the first 2 weeks in Dec. No matter what rule is imposed or what method is used, there will not be enough value and club level rooms at AKV, BWV and BLT to fill the need. Some people are not going to get a room they want. The demand exceeds the availability. You could lose to walkers, big point owners, faster internet folks, or just draw the short straw. No system will be fair to everyone, particularly if we define fair as "I get the room I want". I have walked and I have picked up walker droppings. I tend to want to stay in those low point/high value rooms to get the most out of my points. This means I have to plan well ahead and be flexible in my timing. In times I am not flexible in my timing, I don't expect to be in those rooms. No system, other than dramatically shifting the point charts in both season and villa category will start to balance out demand. Eliminate the club and value categories and almost all walking will end. Next make the fall cost as much or more than summer and it will be gone. Is that what we want?

Again, that depends on what you think the problem is. I don't think the problem is lack of rooms - I mean, that's a problem, but no, nothing is going to fix that. Not eliminating walking, not jacking up point costs. What this changes is the headache of calling at eleven months for a room that isn't open that day, but opens up seven days later because people didn't want that room, they wanted a room a week later - or two weeks later. i.e. looking for a pool chair at 11am and finding them all taken because people wanted their pool chairs for their 3pm park break.

 

[crisi]

It doesn't seem you're willing to pay a very big price, given that in other posts you've said you book your home resort at 11 months and don't change it.
But this would impact the hundreds of thousands of people who like the flexibility of their DVC. At 7 months I change my plans in accordance to availability and modify the reservation to add or drop days depending on which rooms pop up. It's likely many do this as well, consolidating single days into larger reservations. Removing the possibility to change the reservation in the first month might cause more checkins and checkouts, increasing everyone dues.
That's exactly what I'm saying: your proposal would cause a lot of harm to many members just so you can have a shot at the cheaper 50 rooms in your home resort.
And sorry to say, you wouldn't probably get them anyway: if you're not willing to put the effort now to walk a reservation, you'll not going to put the effort to book a standard view at 11 months in the split second reservations open. Have you ever used an atomic clock to be sure to click on the exact moment reservations open? Have you ever trialled in the previous days if you can click half a second before it so you can offset the lag from your computer to the DVC server? Can you see yourself do this when a lot of members will try to book too few rooms?



This makes me smile. In your battle for fairness, you are willing to give the very richest people an advantage over everyone else. My definition of fairness is quite different.

Well no, in my battle for fairness, I want the most people to have the most similar experience without inconveniencing other members. (I'm also the person who won't rent my BWV points over Food and Wine - preferring Spring rentals when other members are not in heavy competition for those rooms - it far more polite and doesn't cost me anything). Most people don't have enough points to walk for a month, and those that do, I don't believe are likely to do so. Therefore, 90% of the problem I have with walking - which is not lack of rooms (that's a problem) - but is people holding onto rooms they have no intention of using to get a room further down the line, would disappear. You don't have a problem calling at 11 months to get a preferred view BW studio at Food and Wine - because if you have points to do so, you aren't going to bother walking. If I could figure out a way to get rid of walking altogether, I would, but I do think the flexibility to drop the beginning of your vacation or add to the end of it is desirable. And I'm not pro fee for changing reservations. I want changes to be possible for free. I just don't want a bunch of towels on pool chairs and a pretty darn empty pool.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Well no, in my battle for fairness, I want the most people to have the most similar experience without inconveniencing other members. (I'm also the person who won't rent my BWV points over Food and Wine - preferring Spring rentals when other members are not in heavy competition for those rooms - it far more polite and doesn't cost me anything). Most people don't have enough points to walk for a month, and those that do, I don't believe are likely to do so. Therefore, 90% of the problem I have with walking - which is not lack of rooms (that's a problem) - but is people holding onto rooms they have no intention of using to get a room further down the line, would disappear. You don't have a problem calling at 11 months to get a preferred view BW studio at Food and Wine - because if you have points to do so, you aren't going to bother walking. If I could figure out a way to get rid of walking altogether, I would, but I do think the flexibility to drop the beginning of your vacation or add to the end of it is desirable. And I'm not pro fee for changing reservations. I want changes to be possible for free. I just don't want a bunch of towels on pool chairs and a pretty darn empty pool.

If walking was removed you'd still have no guarantee of getting a high demand room just like if saving pool chairs was not "allowed" you might end up seeing people coming out and occupying the chairs much earlier. It's making an assumption that all other things will remain the same if a change is made and that's very unlikely. A new restriction would likely mean changes in reaction and people would still be unhappy because ultimately the problem is there are very popular room categories where the demand exceeds the inventory and we own in a system that is not fixed or guaranteed 99.9% of the time.

(FYI - If an owner has enough points to walk 2 weekend nights they have enough points to walk for a month.)

 

[crisi]

If walking was removed you'd still have no guarantee of getting a high demand room just like if saving pool chairs was not "allowed" you might end up seeing people coming out and occupying the chairs much earlier. It's making an assumption that all other things will remain the same if a change is made and that's very unlikely. A new restriction would likely mean changes in reaction and people would still be unhappy because ultimately the problem is there are very popular room categories where the demand exceeds the inventory and we own in a system that is not fixed or guaranteed 99.9% of the time.

(FYI - If an owner has enough points to walk 2 weekend nights they have enough points to walk for a month.)

Of course you wouldn't. There is never a guarantee of getting a high demand room. That's the way timeshares work. The thing it significantly reduces is someone sitting on a room they aren't going to use, making it unavailable to book for someone who is going to use it. i.e. instead of calling at eleven months for a room, discovering it isn't there, and then calling at ten and a half months and discovering it is because walkers, you'd be more likely to call at eleven months and know whether or not you got your high demand room. If you did, great - you can stop worrying about it. If not, you could keep stalking or waitlist, hoping it opens up, or make other plans.

 

[Matty B13]

(FYI - If an owner has enough points to walk 2 weekend nights they have enough points to walk for a month.)

This is particularly annoying to me, because people who do this tie up the week for the people who are trying to make a week reservation. You have to go on each day and pick up the next day that the walker dropped. Especially when people do this because they think they "might" want to stay for a weekend in a month.

 

[DaveNan]

FYI - If an owner has enough points to walk 2 weekend nights they have enough points to walk for a month.

A little off topic, but a once a year opportunity is coming up. It is true that having enough points for 2 weekend days covers you in most cases. Going through high point seasons can disrupt walks. Going over the end of the month can too. The single biggest opportunity for interpreted walks happens at the end of February, or more accurately the February to March transition. On this Saturday, Feb 29, a member would need to have Jan 29, Jan 30, Jan 31, and Feb 1 reserved in order to still have a protected reservation on the morning of March 1st. (On non-leap years it actually takes a 5 day reservation to be "protected") I just stayed in a club level studio room in early Feb this year. I was able to book my reservation on the morning of March 1st last year at 8am sharp.

 

[n2mm]

The past few mornings, things have been great for booking. Both Bwv and BLT standard studios have been easily available to book for February. Everything has been available for a long time every morning. At least for an hour. It was like the old days.

 

[CarolMN]

The past few mornings, things have been great for booking. Both Bwv and BLT standard studios have been easily available to book for February. Everything has been available for a long time every morning. At least for an hour. It was like the old days.

And thus ends the annual discussion of walking. (Hoping. There is never any new information relevant to this discussion).

But fear not, like MacArthur, it shall return. (Take it from a 20+ year DIS veteran).

 

[sethschroeder]

The past few mornings, things have been great for booking. Both Bwv and BLT standard studios have been easily available to book for February. Everything has been available for a long time every morning. At least for an hour. It was like the old days.

Well all through January 2021 bookings not everything was available and even at 8am I still wasn't able to grab it. But it also came available later as walkers moved on except the weekends which stayed booked for Std views. This was at BWV when I was looking and booking our 2021 stay.

So while it did come up I can see people being annoyed that the rooms are book at 11 months and then free at 10 months and 29 days.

 

[sethschroeder]

Doesn’t this entire system of creating flags rely specifically upon identifying outliers. This would them imply it wasn’t many people actually walking thus the effort is truly a waste or MS resources to go and verify each “flagged” reservation. If walking is so prevalent it would be hard to identify problem reservations because they wouldn’t be an outlier anymore thus it wouldn’t be reasonably possible to catch most of the walkers.

I personally lean its outliers and more often than not threads like this that are self fulfilling. They intend to kill walking but they create fear and flame the fire about a truly small problem but keep doing it then it can get bigger. But as other said making walking illegal and value studios will still be sold out each day at 11 months just the strategy of following the walkers would disappear. All the suggested efforts to curb walking truly just make the system restrictive for no real reason, IMO.

Except following a walker should never be a thing. Thats not the purpose of the process. As far as being an outlier the fact that you can easily follow a walker to pick up your rooms would point to there being a few of them at least.

Do you think its then fair that you are able to get a room by randomly being on at a time when the walker decided to move 1 day? The waitlist doesn't work because if I wanted 7 days I only get 2 wait lists. If the walkers is randomly moving 2 or 3 days I still need to manually be checking to try and get the room. That is why longer holds and then big cancellations all at once by a walker actually works in favor of the system because wait lists would be filled.

I would also be fine if Disney came up with a better waitlist system where you could put it on your reservation and it can keep changing out single days as they become available instead of waiting for the full thing to be free.

Well said.
Walking is now the perfect scapegoat for problems mostly created by Disney.
How many time have we read thread like "all rooms disappear every day within seconds reservations open, we must stop walking!".

Walking affects just a few hundred rooms and most of them just during fall frenzy. There are thousands or rooms in the DVC system. Any restriction DVC will introduce will hurt more members than walking does.

There is a shortage of rooms for specific categories at certain times. Its why I support the new point system they are putting in place to balance out the seasons better.

The big issue is that the waitlist system and walking do not match up to allow people to get rooms. So you move from a first come first serve at 11 months and move it to the system of whoever gets lucky to see the room that the walker dropped.

As far pure number of walkers nobody has a clue I don't think.

 

[crisi]

And thus ends the annual discussion of walking. (Hoping. There is never any new information relevant to this discussion).

But fear not, like MacArthur, it shall return. (Take it from a 20+ year DIS veteran).

Or until Disney does something about it. Because plenty of discussions that used to pop up all the time don't - mug refills, anyone?

 

[crisi]

The big issue is that the waitlist system and walking do not match up to allow people to get rooms. So you move from a first come first serve at 11 months and move it to the system of whoever gets lucky to see the room that the walker dropped.

Yep, the waitlist - where sometimes rooms appear for booking and apparently have bypassed the waitlist - does not help the situation. If I had confidence that if walkers moved off my intended vacation time, and being on the waitlist would slip me into that room, I would have much less of an issue. But I don't have that confidence.

 

[Heather07438]

The past few mornings, things have been great for booking. Both Bwv and BLT standard studios have been easily available to book for February. Everything has been available for a long time every morning. At least for an hour. It was like the old days.

Maybe some people are concerned that if COVID-19 is a problem next winter, Feb will be high season for sickness. Next winter could become a less popular time to plan a trip as we continue to be bombarded with pandemic updates.

 

[drusba]

Maybe some people are concerned that if COVID-19 is a problem next winter, Feb will be high season for sickness. Next winter could become a less popular time to plan a trip as we continue to be bombarded with pandemic updates.

For many years Feb 1 to the Thurs before Presidents Day has been the lowest DVC demand time of the year at WDW.

 

[n2mm]

For many years Feb 1 to the Thurs before Presidents Day has been the lowest DVC demand time of the year at WDW.

good to know. I usually Cruise early feb so book rooms before and after. Next year I’m cruising the end of January so had no problem booking before and after that cruise.