Sept 2022 DVC Direct Sales

I admit, I'm a bit surprised that Riviera sales are almost double VGF sales.
I'm led to a few conclusions:
1 -- Definite: Price is probably the biggest driving factor. Riviera is cheaper. In the minds of most buyers, they don't see any advantage to VGF that is worth paying more.
2 -- Very confident: In the eyes of most new buyers, Riviera is at least quality to VGF if not superior.
3-- Speculative: Buyers aren't in love with the VGF "resort studios"
Maybe buyers are more interested in an Epcot/HS resort? Or maybe they also like the longer contract length? I agree about the price and the resort studios being a factor. Riviera’s room categories and inventory is better balanced.
 
Definitely!. But that is still a pretty big difference in sales between VGF and RIV when the discounts themselves for new buyers are not substantially different. On a 200 point contract...the average for new buyers, it is only $2600. Not enough to make someone who wants VGF to choose RIV.

I would say though that VGF will need incentives to sell better if DVD wants it to. But, since RIV has so many more points to sell given it is a 6.7 million point resort, maybe they'd just rather sell those?
2600 is a lot of money, but I think Epcot / DS vs MK is the real reason for the difference.
 


I admit, I'm a bit surprised that Riviera sales are almost double VGF sales.
I'm led to a few conclusions:
1 -- Definite: Price is probably the biggest driving factor. Riviera is cheaper. In the minds of most buyers, they don't see any advantage to VGF that is worth paying more.
2 -- Very confident: In the eyes of most new buyers, Riviera is at least equal quality to VGF if not superior.
3-- Speculative: Buyers aren't in love with the VGF "resort studios"
Surprises me that people would say they arent in love with the Resort Studios bc as a family of 5, having 2 real beds in a studio is pretty attractive (my kids are not huge fans of the pullouts/murphy beds). Considering the resale point value of VGF are only on average $20-$30 cheaper than the direct price- im considering buying direct for the first time ever. I know the blue card isnt what it used to be, but that plus being able to trade into RIV and future resort with these 150 points makes that $20-$30 direct markup look worth it - never thought id say that.
 
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I admit, I'm a bit surprised that Riviera sales are almost double VGF sales.
I'm led to a few conclusions:
1 -- Definite: Price is probably the biggest driving factor. Riviera is cheaper. In the minds of most buyers, they don't see any advantage to VGF that is worth paying more.
2 -- Very confident: In the eyes of most new buyers, Riviera is at least equal quality to VGF if not superior.
^ Yes, all of this.

3 -- Speculative: Buyers aren't in love with the VGF "resort studios"
Maybe you could make that argument if we only had September data, but the data over time tells a vastly different story. When RIV and VGF were priced similarly to one another under prior incentives, VGF was whupping RIV. Now that RIV is way cheaper, it's flipped.
 
^ Yes, all of this.


Maybe you could make that argument if we only had September data, but the data over time tells a vastly different story. When RIV and VGF were priced similarly to one another under prior incentives, VGF was whupping RIV. Now that RIV is way cheaper, it's flipped.

The only time when VGF surpassed RIV was when VGF was first released -- There were people waiting for months to make the purchase. While RIV has been on the market for 3 years.
VGF has always been priced more than RIV. The gap has grown, but only by a tiny amount.

Month by month:
Sep: RIV over VGF by 76%
Aug: RIV over VGF by 18%
July: RIV over VGF by 11%
June: VGF over RIV by 8%
May: VGF over RIV by 69%
April: VGF over RIV by 91%
March: VGF over RIV by 64% (partial month)

As we see, VGF sales only "whupped" RIV for 2 1/2 months. And guess what -- if you started selling Poly2 tomorrow, it would "whup" VGF and RIV for a few months -- That's owing to it being a brand new release.

We actually see a steady decline in VGF sales, not a sudden decline attributable to a sudden price change.

Clearly, RIV is the more popular purchase. I am certain that a price is a major factor. Probably the most significant factor. But I'm not sure if the price gap alone is enough to explain such a big difference.
Other *possible* contributing factors:
- People prefer the Epcot/Skyliner/DHS location over Monorail/MK -- While it's possible, I'd say it's unlikely. Conventional wisdom is that monorail resorts are the most desired location for the majority of buyers. While some (myself included) prefer the Crescent lake area, being able to walk or monorail to Magic Kingdom traditionally has a premium.
-Riviera has longer contract -- I doubt too many buyers are factoring in a big difference between 44 and 48 years, but I suppose it could be a tie breaker in Riviera's favor.
-The majority of people just prefer the Riviera as a resort -- This is obviously very very subjective. They are both gorgeous resorts with different vibes. It's possible that the majority prefer Riviera despite the online hate claiming it's a gray box. But Grand Floridian does have more dining, grander lobby.... I'm not so sure a majority would prefer Riviera.
-The majority of new buyers prefer the rooms at Riviera -- As I said above, I'm speculating. But this seems likely. When first announced, I said the VGF resort studios could go in either direction -- People may love having 2 real beds in a large room, or people may miss the split bathrooms, real kitchenettes, and sofa/murphy bed which can close to create more space.

As I said, I'm very confident price is the single biggest factor. It's quite possible that in the eyes of most buyers, the 2 resorts are about even, with pricing tilting in favor of Riviera. If VGF was cheaper than RIV, I'm sure VGF would beat RIV in sales.

If they were priced the same? I'm really not sure. Six months ago, I would have guessed that if priced the same, VGF sales would be a little higher than RIV. With the more recent data, I wouldn't be surprised if the demand tilted towards RIV, even if priced the same. (though the tilt would be far far less dramatic than we are seeing this month).
 


Surprises me that people would say they arent in love with the Resort Studios bc as a family of 5, having 2 real beds in a studio is pretty attractive (my kids are not huge fans of the pullouts/murphy beds).

I'm sure you're not alone in loving the resort studios. For a family of 3-5, that wants to stay in a studio and not a 1BR, having a real second bed can be huge.
But for traveling parties of 2, the second bed does nothing but take of space. They would rather have a living area, with the bed closed.
And even for some families of 3-4, they might prefer the ability to close up beds during the day to have more living space. I see this as especially true with older kids. With young kids, you come "home" at 8pm and want to put the kids right into bed. With older teens, there may be more call to use the room as an "apartment" with a living room.

The majority of buyers may fall into the second camp. Or, it's also conceivable that when buyers take the tour, they are just more drawn to a space that doesn't look like the hotel room where they are already staying.
 
VGF has always been priced more than RIV. The gap has grown, but only by a tiny amount.
LOL imagine believing this.

VGF launched at $186 for 200. Riviera at that time was $182. A $4 per point difference.

The September prices were $193 for VGF and $176 for Riviera. A $17 per point difference.

The gap has increased 325%.

I'm sure you're not alone in loving the resort studios. For a family of 3-5, that wants to stay in a studio and not a 1BR, having a real second bed can be huge.
But for traveling parties of 2, the second bed does nothing but take of space. They would rather have a living area, with the bed closed.
And even for some families of 3-4, they might prefer the ability to close up beds during the day to have more living space. I see this as especially true with older kids. With young kids, you come "home" at 8pm and want to put the kids right into bed. With older teens, there may be more call to use the room as an "apartment" with a living room.

The majority of buyers may fall into the second camp.
Ah the old, "this is how I feel, so it must be how the majority of buyers feel."

Or, it's also conceivable that when buyers take the tour, they are just more drawn to a space that doesn't look like the hotel room where they are already staying.
Actually the opposite is true. When buyers take the tour of a Deluxe Studio, they are disappointed that it looks worse than the hotel room where they're already staying. A crappy, miserably uncomfortable couch is not a draw for anyone.
 
LOL imagine believing this.

VGF launched at $186 for 200. Riviera at that time was $182. A $4 per point difference.

The September prices were $193 for VGF and $176 for Riviera. A $17 per point difference.

The gap has increased 325%.

That's a pretty disingenuous way to look at it, as you're not looking at it relative to the whole price.
At launch: VGF was $37,200, RIV was $36,400 -- VGF was 2.2% more expensive than RIV.
September: $40,200 for VGF, $37,600 for RIV -- VGF was 6.9% more expensive.

That's it -- VGF in September was only 6.9% more expensive than RIV. That's not a huge gap.


Ah the old, "this is how I feel, so it must be how the majority of buyers feel."

I was pretty clear that I have no idea how the majority of people feel. I said "this *may* be what people are thinking." Where did I say *must*?????
Do you know the difference between someone say "maybe" and "must"? Pretty different.



Actually the opposite is true. When buyers take the tour of a Deluxe Studio, they are disappointed that it looks worse than the hotel room where they're already staying. A crappy, miserably uncomfortable couch is not a draw for anyone.

If that was true then I expect more people would be willing to pay the extra 6.9% for the resort studios.

If people do prefer the resort studios, the majority clearly don't see it as being important enough to pay 6.9% more.

It is very possible that the majority of buyers see the resorts and rooms as about equal, and price is the deciding factor. It's pretty clear that the majority of buyers do not see VGF as being superior enough to be worth a mere extra 6.9%.
I speculated that buyers aren't in love with the VGF resort studios. If they were in love with them, I would think they would be willing to pay an extra 6.9%.
 
Actually the opposite is true. When buyers take the tour of a Deluxe Studio, they are disappointed that it looks worse than the hotel room where they're already staying. A crappy, miserably uncomfortable couch is not a draw for anyone.

Ah the old, "this is how I feel, so it must be how the majority of buyers feel."
The second message seems to be an appropriate response to the first. ;)

There have been about a billion DVC points sold over the years (maybe a slight exaggeration) and reportedly, if you believe what you read here on the DIS, deluxe studios are the preferred room of choice for many, if not most DVC'ers. Crappy couch and all.
 
Surprises me that people would say they arent in love with the Resort Studios bc as a family of 5, having 2 real beds in a studio is pretty attractive (my kids are not huge fans of the pullouts/murphy beds).
As a family of 3, I prefer to be able to put up the second bed and have more room when we aren't sleeping; it is why we haven't stayed in an OKW studio. We loved the queen murphy bed in the Poly studios as it was a real mattress but we could get it out of the way. I'm really looking forward to the deluxe studio of VGF at Christmas for the same reason. On this trip we'll have a split stay with BWV and my kids have been asking when those rooms will get the murphy bed. They're small and light; so they don't have the same issues with the pull out couch, but they do prefer the queen murphy bed.
 
The second message seems to be an appropriate response to the first. ;)

There have been about a billion DVC points sold over the years (maybe a slight exaggeration) and reportedly, if you believe what you read here on the DIS, deluxe studios are the preferred room of choice for many, if not most DVC'ers. Crappy couch and all.
Maybe I just don't use the couch as much as most, but they've never bothered me. For a couple or group of 3 I'd MUCH rather have the space. In the daytime I'd much rather sit on a couch than on the edge of a bed, even an uncomfortable one. And I don't even find them all that uncomfortable tbh. Yeah they're stiff and not very "cushy" but I'm not looking to camp out on the thing for hours. YMMV
 
I think the price and the extra years are positives... better incentives and another 6 years worth of points with Riviera over GF is a lot of extra value assuming you don't have strong feelings about one resort over the other. I would assume first time buyers are looking for the best deal... after all they can use their Riviera points at the GF. I haven't studied the point charts in detail, but it looks like your points go a little further at Riviera vs GF too. So if they can buy a few less points, get a better deal, and have a longer contract why wouldn't they be buying Riviera vs GF.
 
It's interesting that after years of praising buyers who spend $20...$30...$40 more per point for their preferred destination (BCV, BLT, Poly, etc.), now a $9-13 price difference is framed as a deal breaker. Especially since Riviera has dues almost $1.40 higher per point, which will immediately begin to narrow the gap.

That said, DVC can offer an extra set of points with Riviera, which is a noteworthy bonus. Plus the longer ownership period. But, I dunno, maybe there are actually people who like Riviera better than Grand Floridian...
 
Maybe I just don't use the couch as much as most, but they've never bothered me. For a couple or group of 3 I'd MUCH rather have the space. In the daytime I'd much rather sit on a couch than on the edge of a bed, even an uncomfortable one. And I don't even find them all that uncomfortable tbh. Yeah they're stiff and not very "cushy" but I'm not looking to camp out on the thing for hours. YMMV
I do agree with @CaptainAmerica on this one. The couches aren't the comfiest things in the world, but they do beat having a second bed in the room.

I also agree with you that it's much preferable to sitting on a couch, even a crappy one, over the edge of a bed.
 
It's interesting that after years of praising buyers who spend $20...$30...$40 more per point for their preferred destination (BCV, BLT, Poly, etc.), now a $9-13 price difference is framed as a deal breaker. Especially since Riviera has dues almost $1.40 higher per point, which will immediately begin to narrow the gap.

That said, DVC can offer an extra set of points with Riviera, which is a noteworthy bonus. Plus the longer ownership period. But, I dunno, maybe there are actually people who like Riviera better than Grand Floridian...
Yes, this is us. We have nothing against GFV, but we much prefer Riviera.
 
That said, DVC can offer an extra set of points with Riviera, which is a noteworthy bonus. Plus the longer ownership period. But, I dunno, maybe there are actually people who like Riviera better than Grand Floridian...
What do you mean "can offer an extra set of points" with RIV?
 
What do you mean "can offer an extra set of points" with RIV?

When buying RIV, they can sell you double points. In other words, if you are buying December 2022 use year, you'll get the December 2021 points + a full set of points starting December 1, 2022.
They can't meaningfully backdate points in VGF -- Can't backdate beyond the point where the points first came into existence.
 

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