Saw an "open" Lifeboat last week on Fantasy

[Uncleromulus]

I don't see where the value of the life of a passenger vs a crew member comes into play. The issue is around training. I'm pretty sure that only lifeboats are mentioned during the passenger muster drill, I'll have to listen for this next time. I know for sure that they have not explained the steps in using a slide to evacuate the ship. I would hope that the crew is familiar with this method if this is what evacuation procedures require.

On the other hand, I don't recall if they explained this on DCL, but I do know that on Cunard they recommend stepping off the ship rather than jumping, if one ends up needing to leave the ship w/o a lifeboat. You are supposed to use one hand to hold your nose and the other to hold your life jacket. I assume to avoid having the life jacket break your neck...

And based on what happened on the Costa Concordia, it does seem that you might end up having to make some difficult decisions anyway. So even if you are "meant" to be put into a lifeboat, a raft might be better then nothing.

I'm pretty sure the word "lifeRAFT" isn't even mentioned in the muster drill. And I am not sure DCL ships have any "slides"

 

[Uncleromulus]

I think Tonkas Skipper was saying that all lives are equally valuable, and that the cruise lines are willing to put the lives of their crew before their passengers.
When a crew member decides to serve the passengers aboard a ship, they make that decision to put others lives ahead of theirs in a dangerous situation. Be it a firefighter, first responder to a medical emergency, or to be a lifeboat or liferaft personnel or captain.
They are picked because they are deemed suitable leaders to do the job that would be needed. And as Uncleromulus stated that many of the crew being taught the methods to launching a lifeboat seemed uninterested, I wonder why!? I am assuming they are new hires and this is part of their training to become lifeboat captains or assembly leaders, for no extra pay, and hours and hours of further training and tests consistently.
Only those deemed suitable and capable would be put in the position.

As I noted, these crew members were a collection of servers, bartenders, youth counselors, etc. No way for me to know what their actual status was, or what they might be doing during an evacuation. But from just watching I can tell you there was a genuine lack of interest in the Officers presentation---

 

[Uncleromulus]

Here is an example of a davit launched liferaft. No need to jump into the water.

The lifeboats then herd the liferafts together and tie them up so they are towed and kept together.

Now that was more of what I needed to see! Got to say tho it will take a WELL trained crew to make the raft launching work as it should. Under perfect conditions it took almost 9 minutes to get one raft off--and my guess is it will take even longer when passengers, are being herded in.

 

[terramei]

Now that was more of what I needed to see! Got to say tho it will take a WELL trained crew to make the raft launching work as it should. Under perfect conditions it took almost 9 minutes to get one raft off--and my guess is it will take even longer when passengers, are being herded in.

The dream and fantasy have 5 davits on each side of the ship for launching rafts. So they could potentially be launching ten rafts at a time. It doesn't seem any slower than the launching of the life boats.

 

[C6PT7]

Now that was more of what I needed to see! Got to say tho it will take a WELL trained crew to make the raft launching work as it should. Under perfect conditions it took almost 9 minutes to get one raft off--and my guess is it will take even longer when passengers, are being herded in.

To be fair, it took about 4 minutes of that video for the raft to be made ready to board, and that was using a manual davit on an oil rig. I would think dcl have motorized davits to speed things up.

 

[C6PT7]

A couple of shots of some of the liferaft canisters and the davits. They look motorized.

 

[Capt_BJ]

Since placing my post I've sat back and watched the discussion with interest and occasional chuckles ...... as one who was concerned with safety on ships for 30 years I guess I see things on cruise ships that others don't ....

"if I'm assigned a muster station inside I might be assigned to a raft" HELLLLLOOOOOOOO ......... is your "boat number" 6 .... or 30 of which there are only 20 boats? " On some newer SUPER ships the muster station for a boat WILL be inside. Ships like OASIS OTS resulted in changes to the rules . . . like the 370 person life boat

The cruise ship Oasis of the Sea is fitted with 18 of the new mega lifeboats. A total of over 44 of the traditional 150 persons lifeboats would have to be fitted to accommodate the same number of passengers.

Rafts vs boats with motors ..... note that the "plan" is that you sit in the boat/raft and WAI for rescue to find you. NOT that you should sail to land ala Captain Bligh tossed off Bounty

The 'indifference' noted of crew during the pass' drill while SAD has little to do with crew qualifications. USCG inspects crew preparedness and specifically inspects crew preparedness for abandon ship. Their drills for USCG are WAY more intense than the pre cruise pass' drill. IMO DCL did a WAY better job than some.

BUT let me ask this

how prepared or concerned are you about launching rafts from a ditched airplane ... a water landing?

Seems to me one of those happened lately .....

++++++++++++++

abandon ship plans are just that ... PLANS

no one expects the plan to be executed as written ...

but HOPES that the plan gives a decent starting point!

 

[Princessjenny1225]

Here's my crazy question as I have never cruised before......does anything bad happen if I am at the wrong life boat/raft station? If I happen to be at a station when the signal hits to abandon ship......am I supposed to go somewhere else when I m already at a spot? Won't I be going against the current of people trying to get where I m? Or do I have plenty of time to find my spot so no worries? My assumption is folks would treat it like a fire drill and just head for closest spot till that got way too overcrowded.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Here's my crazy question as I have never cruised before......does anything bad happen if I am at the wrong life boat/raft station? If I happen to be at a station when the signal hits to abandon ship......am I supposed to go somewhere else when I m already at a spot? Won't I be going against the current of people trying to get where I m? Or do I have plenty of time to find my spot so no worries? My assumption is folks would treat it like a fire drill and just head for closest spot till that got way too overcrowded.

You should attempt to go to your assigned station. If your own station is unobtainable, or for some other reason unusable, you'll be directed where to go from there.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

What Shmoo said!

 

[Princessjenny1225]

Thanks

 

[C6PT7]

Who would determine who gets the "inflatable raft"?? Perhaps just the crew???
If my math is correct 16 lifeboats x 270 persons each is 4,220. According to Passporter, the ships crew is 1,500 and max passenger is 4,000. IF true that leaves about 1,300 UNABLE to get in a Lifeboat.

My curiosity is now aroused as I was mistakenly under the impression there were enough LIFEBOATS for all--apparently not exactly true.

270 x 16 is 4320
So with a max pax occupancy of 4000, 2500 double occupancy, there is more than enough room in the 4320 spaces in the lifeboats for a further 320 crew to be the driver and lifeboat command crew with out using the liferafts. The additional liferafts are for the crew that are not assigned to be the lifeboat crew. And for in the vent one side of the ship becomes unable to launch doe what ever reason.

Something to think about though....
Would you rather be in a liferaft with the crew, or a lifeboat with say 260 other pax, that are spewing, screaming, crying, being entitled and demanding a refund and lack for activities or a ruined vacation whilst awaiting being rescued by another nearby passing ship? You never know you could be with the comedian and band!

Hmmmmm! Decisions decisions! lol!

 

[wdrl]

On Princess, they plan that some passengers will go to the wrong muster station during a true emergency. Princess tries to scan each passenger's cruise card at each muster to get an account for every passenger, regardless of which muster station the passenger should have reported to. I can't emphasize enough that in a true emergency, nothing goes exactly as planned. Some muster stations may be out of commission due to damage or bad weather. The emergency could occur in the evening when guests are attending shows or dinners in parts of the ship furtherest from their assigned muster stations. The captain may deem it advisable to keep everyone in the general part of the ship where they are rather than have hundreds or thousands of people traipsing back and forth.

 

[Capt_BJ]

one of the MOST IMPORTANT things that happens during the muster drill is verification of the muster list for each station. You WANT this list to be accurate don't you? In an actual emergency this is the list that will be used to determine if everyone is accounted for. It is desirable in an actual emergency that you report to your assigned station ... this helps speed the process.

Your station may be relocated in an actual emergency .... LISTEN to announcements.

 

[Uncleromulus]

270 x 16 is 4320
So with a max pax occupancy of 4000, 2500 double occupancy, there is more than enough room in the 4320 spaces in the lifeboats for a further 320 crew to be the driver and lifeboat command crew with out using the liferafts. The additional liferafts are for the crew that are not assigned to be the lifeboat crew. And for in the vent one side of the ship becomes unable to launch doe what ever reason.

Something to think about though....
Would you rather be in a liferaft with the crew, or a lifeboat with say 260 other pax, that are spewing, screaming, crying, being entitled and demanding a refund and lack for activities or a ruined vacation whilst awaiting being rescued by another nearby passing ship? You never know you could be with the comedian and band!

Hmmmmm! Decisions decisions! lol!

THanks for the math correction Are we sure the rafts are for crew only???

 

[Uncleromulus]

On Princess, they plan that some passengers will go to the wrong muster station during a true emergency. Princess tries to scan each passenger's cruise card at each muster to get an account for every passenger, regardless of which muster station the passenger should have reported to. I can't emphasize enough that in a true emergency, nothing goes exactly as planned. Some muster stations may be out of commission due to damage or bad weather. The emergency could occur in the evening when guests are attending shows or dinners in parts of the ship furtherest from their assigned muster stations. The captain may deem it advisable to keep everyone in the general part of the ship where they are rather than have hundreds or thousands of people traipsing back and forth.

Good point. My muster station was B--in the theatre along with several hundred others. But I easily walked to it from my room--11002--also at the front of the ship.

But in an emergency I could be at Remy, w/o my own life vest and the entire length of the ship to traverse--just to get to muster B.

 

[hubbard53]

As above, absolutely do not jump off the ship from the lifeboat deck wearing your lifejacket. It will snap your neck.
A small drop of say 10 feet, put your arm through the neck hole and hold the jacket over your shoulder, whilst crossing your arms and feet and as above, pinch your nose.
Above 10 feet, through the jacket where you will land then jump, arms crossed whilst pinching your nose and your feet crossed.

This is interesting and something i never thought about. IN an actual event, arent you supposed to arrive at the muster station wearing a life vest? This just doenst seem right that they wouldnt warn against jumping into the water wearing a lifevest.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Rafts and boats are for all people.....CM's and passengers as needed.

Emergencies are often different and will require changes in plans. Some lifesaving items may not be available or assessable. This may require changing who goes where.


C6T7 is correct, you should not jump off the vessel from a high distance. With a life vest it is especially danger. The best way to try and get to a point where you can almost walk into the water and then swim to the life rafts or boats.

Depending on conditions, weather, seas, wind, rocking coasts exposed, life rafts are sometimes better and safer then boats.

AKK

 

[Uncleromulus]

This is interesting and something i never thought about. IN an actual event, arent you supposed to arrive at the muster station wearing a life vest? This just doenst seem right that they wouldnt warn against jumping into the water wearing a lifevest.

They (DCL) don't say a word about jumping as far as I can recall. And in an emergency you could be a long way from your room and your own life vest and your muster station.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Latest ship engine room fire. Real emergency, in the top photo you can see the boom and life raft being launched. In the second Photo you can see 2 lifeboats and a raft. The tape has a shot of the raft.
and a helo.

All passengers and CM's are accounted for.

AKK



MoD: Luxury Cruise Ship Was In Danger of Grounding, New Photos and Video Show ‘Complex’ Rescue

November 19, 2015 by Mike Schuler


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An RAF Sea King helicopter winching passengers to safety from the cruise ship Le Boreal. Le Boreal was approx. 3 miles north of Cape Dolphin en route to South Georgia. Photo: Ministry of Defence
The UK Ministry of Defence has provided new details on the rescue of hundreds of passengers and crew who were forced to abandon a luxury cruise ship in the Southern Atlantic following a major engine room fire.

As gCaptain reported yesterday, the fire broke out Wednesday morning at about 2 a.m. onboard the French cruise ship Le Boreal, with 347 passengers and crew, as it sailed near the Falkland Islands. A statement from the owner of the vessel, Ponant, said the passengers were evacuated as a “precaution” and were later embarked on another Ponant vessel, L’Austral, which happened to be nearby.

But details released by the MoD on Thursday described the incident as a major search and rescue operation carried out in difficult conditions. The ship was also in danger of grounding, at one point coming within 3 miles of land even.

“The ship reported suffering a major engine room fire, which caused the loss of all power and left the ship drifting,” the MoD said in its statement. “A north-westerly gale placed the ship in real danger of grounding on Cape Dolphin, East Falkland.”

With the master giving the order to abandon ship, the MoD deployed British forces based in the Falkland Islands to assist.

“Two Royal Air Force Sea King Search and Rescue helicopters were scrambled, along with two other support helicopters, a C130 Hercules and a Voyager aircraft for command and control. The Royal Navy patrol vessel HMS Clyde was despatched to the scene, as were Dutch tugs which support British Forces in the Falkland Islands,” the MoD said.

Photo: Ministry of Defence
With the HMS Clyde providing assistance to 200 evacuees onboard two lifeboats, RAF helicopters winched another 79 people from the deck of the cruise ship and two liferafts, the MoD. Those 79 people were eventually brought to the British Forces Base at Mount Pleasant where they received care, clothing, food and medical attention.

Part of the rescue was caught on tape:


“All passengers and crew from Le Boreal have been accounted for and are being looked after on the Falkland Islands,” the MoD said.”The vessel itself is now in a stable condition and two Dutch Tugs, under contract to British Forces, are now assisting to bring the vessel alongside in the Falkland Islands for a detailed assessment of her condition.”

Commenting on the rescue, Commander British Forces South Atlantic Islands, Cdre Darren Bone, said:

“We responded with everything we had yesterday to assist in what was an extremely complex and hazardous rescue operation in difficult conditions but I am delighted that we can report all of the passengers and crew of the vessel are safe and well and the vessel itself in a stable condition. This was a huge team effort involving close liaison with the Falkland Islands Government and I am enormously impressed with the reaction by all the British forces involved, it was an exemplary performance all round.”