Riviera Sales by the numbers (vs CCV) for 2019 - (December added 1/16/2020)

[AvidDisReader]

Disney may have unintentionally opened another reason to hesitate before buying RIV. With the new walkway being built from Grand Floridian to MK, it has been pointed out there is a nice plot of land where a brand new DVC resort could be built with a very short walk to MK. Would those considering a purchase possibly wait to see if this is on the horizon? I have seen a lot of speculation on Discussion boards regarding this. As for sales at RIV, I fully expect the September Sales to be way down due to the drop in attendance (Hurricane and other issues). The sales figures in the first calendar quarter will be much more telling--the initial reviews from those who stay there will be out on the internet for all to review. If sales are still lagging at that time, the Execs at DVD will have to look in the mirror and decide have the really killed the golden goose.

 

[TexasChick123]

I bought BLT site unseen, small 50 pt. contract. Nine months later DVC changes the point chart, now my 50 pts. wont work. I rented for a couple of years, but eventually sold it. Sold it for what we purchased at, less commission, broke even. I was so mad at DVC. Even with the best research, we are never prepared for what DVC can do or change.

This stinks that it happened to you. I would be pretty angry.

You touched on a something that I think keeps getting overlooked. We cannot control nor do we have any say in what DVD does if it’s within their rights. It’s the same with any other timeshare. Also, we really own nothing except the right to stay there as it is a deed for a 50-year leasehold and not a fee simple deeded ownership interest. I think that gets overlooked a lot. While I feel like I own DVC, that’s not really true, and the parent company still controls most aspects of the program while they give me very few rights as a lessee. I knew this when I signed on, but that’s the reality.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

One sure way to boost sales. Offer a 10 year ticket like they did with OKW when it first opened. You will see sales flying off the shelf.

 

[skier_pete]

Disney may have unintentionally opened another reason to hesitate before buying RIV. With the new walkway being built from Grand Floridian to MK, it has been pointed out there is a nice plot of land where a brand new DVC resort could be built with a very short walk to MK. Would those considering a purchase possibly wait to see if this is on the horizon? I have seen a lot of speculation on Discussion boards regarding this. As for sales at RIV, I fully expect the September Sales to be way down due to the drop in attendance (Hurricane and other issues). The sales figures in the first calendar quarter will be much more telling--the initial reviews from those who stay there will be out on the internet for all to review. If sales are still lagging at that time, the Execs at DVD will have to look in the mirror and decide have the really killed the golden goose.

That doesn't make a lot of sense - you are looking at at LEAST 5 years before anything went in over there - minimum. Reflections won't be open until early 2022 - so we are talking 2024/2025 when the NEXT DVC comes on line. How many people are "waiting" on that?

 

[Bing Showei]

That doesn't make a lot of sense - you are looking at at LEAST 5 years before anything went in over there - minimum. Reflections won't be open until early 2022 - so we are talking 2024/2025 when the NEXT DVC comes on line. How many people are "waiting" on that?

[sheepishly raises hand] Uh, someone said something once about an Epcot Gate resort... standing by.

Until Disney decides otherwise, I should be able to book at Riviera/Reflections, so nothing pressing for me. I think most owners can afford to wait. For those who have already purchased, Riviera checks all their boxes. For some, their boxes will be checked September 29. For others, more boxes will be checked December 16. For me personally, walking to a non-MK park is a big box to check.

 

[AvidDisReader]

I am not good at the cut and paste thing. So in response to skier_pete--really enjoy your posts. Probably should of explained more my thinking. If you are going to invest +$30K in direct deed, would you not want to invest in a resort you really want, say a resort that is walking distance to MK. Yes, it will be at least 5 yr (conservative est) before a new resort will be built between GF and MK, BUT the announcement will in all likelyhood be made by end of 2021 as to where the next DVC resort will be built. I do not consider all that long to wait before the large dollar investment--does that make sense?

 

[zavandor]

I am not good at the cut and paste thing. So in response to skier_pete--really enjoy your posts. Probably should of explained more my thinking. If you are going to invest +$30K in direct deed, would you not want to invest in a resort you really want, say a resort that is walking distance to MK. Yes, it will be at least 5 yr (conservative est) before a new resort will be built between GF and MK, BUT the announcement will in all likelyhood be made by end of 2021 as to where the next DVC resort will be built. I do not consider all that long to wait before the large dollar investment--does that make sense?

That's not a given. BLT was way under construction and when asked about it, DVC replied "tower? Which tower?".
I don't think the next resort will be there.
With Reflections a boat away from MK, announcing a resort in walking distance would hurt their potential market.

 

[MBTigger]

This thread makes me wonder if there is there any data out there for what percentage of direct sales are first time owners and what percentage are add on? Savvy buyers who are "In the know" here certainly seem more hesitant about RIV...

 

[Sandisw]

speak for yourself!

Steak = $50, burger = $20. $50 - 20 = $30. Lets say we invest that at 7% for 30 years....thats $228.37 in future dollars. Now lets discount that into today's dollars using an inflation rate of 2%... thats $126.08..... Using the generic 4% withdrawal rate rule, I can withdraw $5.04 every year for about 30 years. That damn steak just cost me $151.20 more than the burger..... That better have been one damn good steak.

But ya, as others have mentioned, Riviera is unlike other recent new resorts. It is not attached to a previous running resort. When AKL, BLT, PVB, VGF, were up for presale, people knew what they were buying. Riviera is it's own thing. I'm sure there are many people that are waiting for it to open to make the determination whether it really is for them or not.

Do you really do this much analysis when going out to eat? Honestly, anyone who does...no disrespect..should not even consider Disney as a trip because there are so many other places to vacation for much much less.

My feeling has always been to spend money on things that make sense for me and make me happy vs. spending less for something simply cause it’s cheaper. So, I don’t buy that burger when I want a steak simply because down the road I might have more money. Same with Disney and RIV...those that find value in it as a resort and what it will Provide them in happiness staying there, will be willing to spend the money. Those that don’t, won’t.

 

[CanadaDisney05]

Do you really do this much analysis when going out to eat? Honestly, anyone who does...no disrespect..should not even consider Disney as a trip because there are so many other places to vacation for much much less.

It was a joke......

 

[ScubaCat]

I'm a little surprised how pessimistic people are on Riviera due to "slightly below normal" pre-sales when it was so far in advance of opening. This seems par for the course, then the place exceeds expectations and sells out, and we move on to the next one. In a few years people won't like "Reflections", will talk about slower sales, and the cycle will repeat itself. Even if there is a recession, these properties will sell out.

I think many are underestimating the appeal of being on the Skyliner, and are also SIGNIFICANTLY overestimating concern over resale restrictions. As has been said many times before, these forums are a small bubble of people who are more knowledgeable than the VAST, VAST majority of owners. Most people still aren't even aware that there is a resale market (or that it's legit) and don't give a single thought as to what they'll do with their ownership interest years in the future. They get sucked in from one of the multitude of DVC kiosks, take the tour, see themselves staying there, eat the ice cream, and sign.

I'd be willing to bet that sales accelerate briskly once the property and the Skyliner finally open and people see it all for themselves.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I am not good at the cut and paste thing. So in response to skier_pete--really enjoy your posts. Probably should of explained more my thinking. If you are going to invest +$30K in direct deed, would you not want to invest in a resort you really want, say a resort that is walking distance to MK. Yes, it will be at least 5 yr (conservative est) before a new resort will be built between GF and MK, BUT the announcement will in all likelyhood be made by end of 2021 as to where the next DVC resort will be built. I do not consider all that long to wait before the large dollar investment--does that make sense?

I don't think new buyers who have never owned think that way though. They think "my direct points will let me book anywhere! My guide said so!"

 

[ELMC]

That doesn't make a lot of sense - you are looking at at LEAST 5 years before anything went in over there - minimum. Reflections won't be open until early 2022 - so we are talking 2024/2025 when the NEXT DVC comes on line. How many people are "waiting" on that?

Actually, me. I think I am the chief rabble-rouser on here when it comes to DVC being overpriced. I refused to buy VGF because I thought it was overpriced at $145 per point, so I'm certainly not even entertaining the idea of buying RIV. But if they build a resort where you can walk into the MK through a separate entrance like VGC, I'll be the first on line to buy there even though there will be no way to justify it financially. Hmmm....I think I just got some insight into the direct buyer's thinking.

 

[Fred M]

I absolutely cannot tell me that the resale restrictions haven't hurt sales at all.

As an older dad, the resale restriction doesn't bother me. My wife and I have both Aulani and Copper Creek. Our plan from day one was that DVC would be something we would leave our son, who just turned 5 this summer. I'd be 92 when the Aulani contract ends. If I can make it to 92, that's a win right there. Riviera would be more of the same--something we'd leave for our son.

Our hesitation with buying Riviera is (1) wanting to see the resort first when we visit in May 2020; and (2) we really don't need more DVC points right now given that we go to WDW only every 24-36 months.

As I get closer to retirement, the more getting some Riviera points interests me.

 

[Fred M]

I'd be willing to bet that sales accelerate briskly once the property and the Skyliner finally open and people see it all for themselves.

I watched Craig's (@Teleclashter) video from the Skyliner and I immediately found my wife and said, "you have to watch this!" We're really looking forward to taking the Skyliner and if it's as good as the video, then I think Riviera will become more of a draw for a lot of "on the fence" folks.

 

[Sandisw]

It was a joke......

Phew..I should have guessed! Lol

 

[igrsod]

I guess what I look at though is if the reason is "bad location" or "dues too high" or "point creep", there's nothing at all Disney can do about that. Things they can change to boost sales:

- Lower price / increase incentives.
- Rescind the resale restriction on "can't stay anywhere else".

I absolutely cannot tell me that the resale restrictions haven't hurt sales at all. There are many people I've talked to (including Pete Werner) that say they will not buy there because of the resale restrictions. I will admit that the only way they do that is if their backs are up against the wall. But if sales continue to soften...do they do it?

Add me to the list of I would never buy there due to the resale restrictions. I'm in my 40s. Most likely that RIV contract will be sold at some point if I bought today. With those restrictions, I'm pretty sure they are trying to suppress resale, and thus, the resale contract will not be worth much.
Although DVC shouldn't be seen as an "investment", it's nice to know you can resell your contract should you want or need to for a good price. That all changed and SO I will not purchase direct.

 

[TexasChick123]

I'm a little surprised how pessimistic people are on Riviera due to "slightly below normal" pre-sales when it was so far in advance of opening. This seems par for the course, then the place exceeds expectations and sells out, and we move on to the next one. In a few years people won't like "Reflections", will talk about slower sales, and the cycle will repeat itself. Even if there is a recession, these properties will sell out.

I think many are underestimating the appeal of being on the Skyliner, and are also SIGNIFICANTLY overestimating concern over resale restrictions. As has been said many times before, these forums are a small bubble of people who are more knowledgeable than the VAST, VAST majority of owners. Most people still aren't even aware that there is a resale market (or that it's legit) and don't give a single thought as to what they'll do with their ownership interest years in the future. They get sucked in from one of the multitude of DVC kiosks, take the tour, see themselves staying there, eat the ice cream, and sign.

I'd be willing to bet that sales accelerate briskly once the property and the Skyliner finally open and people see it all for themselves.

I agree. The Skyliner opens this weekend, so that will definitely be interesting to hear what people have to say. As someone who has been on gondolas many times over the years, I’m not terribly concerned about them and am looking forward to a new means of transportation. I’ve been on them in heat and rain and wind. We usually try to leave the Disney parks before the afternoon thunderstorms, so hopefully that won’t affect us too much.

I also feel like we can’t say this enough: Riviera went on sale before a lot of the other properties. CCV went on sale in March (corrected), but it opened in July. That’s 4 months! Riviera went on sale in March, and it doesn’t open until December. That’s 9 months. You have a 5 month difference there not to mention the “unknown” Skyliner and a stand-alone resort.

I’m sorry, but this must be said too. Who are these people acting like they don’t want to stay at a hotel “next to a moderate” or “share gondolas with value hotel guests”. I don’t want to go too off subject here, but really?!? You think the DVC resorts are so nice that you can’t mix with the “regular folk”? I’ve been to quite a few DVC events, and there are all kinds of people at them even those who “can only afford moderates or values” but bought in on the cheap. I also have quite a few friends who can easily afford deluxe and choose value because they don’t want to spend the money. These are doctors, lawyers, engineers, investment bankers, you name it. I’m just very tired of seeing this. Ok. Rant over for now...

***Edited the CCV initial sales date

 

[ScubaCat]

they don’t want to stay at a hotel “next to a moderate”

Darn right. If I can even sense that there's a moderate resort nearby, it's game over! Heck, I may not even ride the Skyliner because the gondola car I get might have once been to a value resort! the HORROR!!

 

[TexasChick123]

Darn right. If I can even sense that there's a moderate resort nearby, it's game over! Heck, I may not even ride the Skyliner because the gondola car I get might have once been to a value resort! the HORROR!!

I mean seriously! If people don’t want to mix with the “regular folks”, then they should probably stay away from theme parks in general. Maybe they won’t ride the gondolas, so the lines will be shorter!