River Country to be demolished

I'm glad to see disney doing their part in reducing the mosquito population in florida. Less standing water, less icky bugs. It's not just about Zika, it's everything mosquitos carry.

This will do nothing to control the mosquito population in Florida. Disney is in a swamp, this may take away someplace for the mosquitoes to spawn, but there are plenty of other places for them to do that in a swamp.
This is Disney learning from their mistakes from the alligator incident. They made a mistake trusting in people having common sense and following the posted signs that said no swimming. All they are doing by filling in the pools is covering their butt so that someone can't point a finger at them and say they got zika from river country.
 
They HAD to close it. Florida fresh water is just not safe to swim in. However, I hope that one day they use the land to expand upon the Fort.
I'm afraid that was a myth. Though sourced from the lake, the water in RC was filtered and treated. There was also a membrane that separated the "swimmin' hole" from the rest of the lake and was kept a couple inches higher than the lake in order to keep the internal water pressure higher in order to prevent untreated water from seeping in. There was a change in Florida law that impacted the water that waterparks could use (regardless of source) but it only required that the water be treated to meet drinking water standards, but there's no evidence to link that to RC's closure as Disney could have made the additional filtration changes. The consensus is that what killed RC was the post-9/11 attendance slump, combined with the fact that RC had fallen out of favor with many of the WDW guests who much preferred the two newer cutting-edge water parks on-site. RC closed for the season as usual on 9/01/2001, with no special announcements, and never reopened. For years there was no word from Disney about if it would ever open again. This would point to Disney management hoping that perhaps conditions would return that would allow RC to open once again... but then time took its toll.
 
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I'm afraid that was a myth. Though sourced from the lake, the water in RC was filtered and treated. There was also a membrane that separated the "swimmin' hole" from the rest of the lake and was kept a couple inches higher than the lake in order to keep the internal water pressure higher in order to prevent untreated water from seeping in. There was a change in Florida law that impacted the water that waterparks could use (regardless of source) but it only required that the water be treated to meet drinking water standards, but there's no evidence to link that to RC's closure as Disney could have made the additional filtration changes. The consensus is that what killed RC was the post-9/11 attendance slump, combined with the fact that RC had fallen out of favor with many of the WDW guests who much preferred the two newer cutting-edge water parks on-site. RC closed for the season as usual on 9/01/2001, with no special announcements, and never reopened. For years there was no word from Disney about if it would ever open again. This would point to Disney management hoping that perhaps conditions would return that would allow RC to open once again... but then time took its toll.

Florida law also requires a certain clarity to pool water and the lake water never had sufficient clarity. This is to ensure that the bottom of the pool is visible for life safety purposes. All these factors mentioned just made it much cheaper to close and stick with the two new parks rather than try to bring RC up to code. It's possible that the regular repairs required to reopen it after it closed in 2001 would have triggered bringing everything up to current code.
 


My question is why not tear it down? You are just tempting people to sneak in and get hurt. I know they are filling the pools in but why not go the extra mile and get rid of that temptation for people?

Probably because it would have to come out of somebody's budget.
 
So, how is what I said incorrect? The current set up could not guarantee the absence of naegleria fowleri.

It didn't close because of Florida law. It closed because there were two higher capacity water parks in operation at a time when attendance was declining.
 
So, how is what I said incorrect? The current set up could not guarantee the absence of naegleria fowleri.
That part about they "had" to close it because of the lack of safety of the water. But Disney was on record in 2002 as saying that they would re-open RC if "there’s enough guest demand." It took several years before WDW tourism rebounded after 9/11, by then the die appears to have been cast. Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach were rockin', and RC faded into memory as an outmoded facility.
 


That part about they "had" to close it because of the lack of safety of the water. But Disney was on record in 2002 as saying that they would re-open RC if "there’s enough guest demand." It took several years before WDW tourism rebounded after 9/11, by then the die appears to have been cast. Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach were rockin', and RC faded into memory as an outmoded facility.
Ah, I see.
 
It didn't close because of Florida law. It closed because there were two higher capacity water parks in operation at a time when attendance was declining.

I thought the rumor was that Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon were created with the intention of closing River Country.
 
This article seems to agree it had to be closed because of the law:

http://martincountytimes.com/disney...es-concerns-about-extreme-sports-project-here
The press clipping in that article was from 1980... RC continued to operate for another 21 years after that happened. It also incorrectly states that Florida law require pools to use municipal water sources. The Yesterland link that I posted cited the actual sections of relevant Florida law and it does not require the water to be from municipal sources, but instead only must meet state "potable" water standards... regardless of source. The bottom line is that all that the Martin County Time piece does is repeat the myth without providing any sources or evidence.
 
I thought the rumor was that Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon were created with the intention of closing River Country.
TL opened in 1989, BB opened in 1995. All three water parks operated together for six years after the last of the three opened. If that was the plan, WDW didn't seem to be in a big hurry to shutter RC
 
Disney tends not to take things down until the space is needed for something else. For example the Fantasyland skyway station was there until they decided to build the Tangled restrooms. It might have to do with budgeting the demolition cost into the new project.

Demolition is a regular expense in OPEX that has an immediate (and sometimes major) effect on the Profit & Loss (P&L) statement. If they own the land and don't want the expense or believe that they can use the expense in future years for tax optimization that is probably what they are doing.

Tax optimization is completely legal, tax evasion is not.

Stacy

Source: GAAP and the time I spent as Director of Controlling
 
I read it on the internet so it must be true.

No need to be rude. It's a published newspaper that was originally in print and newspapers are generally considered credible sources. All I said was I found an article that seemed to back up the fact that naegleria fowleri played a part in the closing of River Country. I'm not saying it was the final nail in the coffin, but it was definitely something Disney had to consider especially because Florida law had changed and that's fact.
 
No need to be rude. It's a published newspaper that was originally in print and newspapers are generally considered credible sources. All I said was I found an article that seemed to back up the fact that naegleria fowleri played a part in the closing of River Country. I'm not saying it was the final nail in the coffin, but it was definitely something Disney had to consider especially because Florida law had changed and that's fact.
The article you referenced was three sentences long. It's source was "Ruin-Nation, a blog of abandoned places in the United States and beyond." Probably not the most credible source for a print newspaper to use. Also note that the newspaper article image "claims 4th victim" is from 1980.

Here's a good article about River Country's closing: http://www.yesterland.com/rivercountry2.html
 
This will do nothing to control the mosquito population in Florida. Disney is in a swamp, this may take away someplace for the mosquitoes to spawn, but there are plenty of other places for them to do that in a swamp.
This is Disney learning from their mistakes from the alligator incident. They made a mistake trusting in people having common sense and following the posted signs that said no swimming. All they are doing by filling in the pools is covering their butt so that someone can't point a finger at them and say they got zika from river country.
That's absurd, to say it has ANYTHING to do with the alligator incident. if they were trying to make up for THAT, they'd fill in the lagoon that the alligator attacked in, not a closed off section of the park that no one goes to.
The fact is, less standing water means less places for them to lay their eggs. less eggs, less bugs. simple math.
Also, it would be impossible to prove if someone got Zika while on disney property. It's a hazard of Florida, just like hurricanes and alligators.
Also, the family in the alligator incident did not blame disney or attempt to sue them. They had a careless moment that will haunt them for the rest of their lives.
 
I thought the rumor was that Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon were created with the intention of closing River Country.

It's a complicated history, but from the get go, TL and BB were not created with the intention of "replacing" RC, but ultimately, that is how (post-2001) TWDC ended up viewing them.

People often forget the many difficulties RC struggled with from a day-to-day operations perspective, especially toward the end of its life. Remember that RC was not created or initially marketed as a "water park". That term really hadn't even really caught full wind by that point. Wet 'n' Wild, which touts itself as "America's first water park" (mind you, an often disputed statement) didn't even open until 1977, a year after RC. RC's purpose was to try to draw out a little extra cash from, what were considered at the time, notoriously frugal campers (seems like WDW's philosophy at the time just goes to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same). Weirdly enough, it wasn't uncommon for FW campers in particular to travel all this way to FL and WDW and not splurge for a day at MK. Of course, that became increasingly uncommon as RC neared its end, but it was built with that in mind. TL and BB both were built as water parks from the onset. They were much larger, had more attractions and capacity, offered actual parking lots in front of the park, had more facilities, and were more accessible.

The press clipping in that article was from 1980... RC continued to operate for another 21 years after that happened. It also incorrectly states that Florida law require pools to use municipal water sources. The Yesterland link that I posted cited the actual sections of relevant Florida law and it does not require the water to be from municipal sources, but instead only must meet state "potable" water standards... regardless of source. The bottom line is that all that the Martin County Time piece does is repeat the myth without providing any sources or evidence.

When people ask about why RC closed, it's a complex answer. There is no one overarching answer why it closed, but a lot of it has to do with TL and BB actually. Early WDW visitors may remember the capacity problems RC suffered from. Guest feedback at the time apparently indicated that one of the top complaints from RC day guests was that the park seemed "overcrowded," and more to the point, they often had to stop admitting guests at some point in the day because RC had reached capacity. Imagine if BB had to stop admitting guests 60-70 days a year rather than the 3 or 4 it has to nowadays (something I actually don't think it's had to do this summer). Now couple that with the logistical challenge. Day guests usually had to take a bus to get to the park and have to repeat that process in their wet bathing suits to get back to their cars. Anyone who's been in that afternoon TL bus to Epcot can tell you how unpleasant of an experience that can be. It also proved to be a costly one. WDW had thought that building TL would potentially alleviate these logistical issues, but to be honest, they never really got substantially better.

That said, the updated FL laws played a role as well. To make any significant update to RC, Disney would also need to make a number of changes to its pipework and water systems, another costly endeavor. That combined with a string of stories about various bacteria-born illnesses coming from FL's bodies of still water (I'll try to find some news clippings about these tomorrow) didn't help. This became a growing pain for RC and one that TWDC didn't quite know how to address.

And then there was 9/11. This, to me, has always seemed to be the straw that broke the camel's back. People forget that when RC closed, it was closing for what Disney called "seasonal refurbishment," similar to what they do today during the cooler months with TL and BB. Of course, they weren't really planning on updating or refreshing much. This was a "refurbishment" more similar to the one we saw at POFQ, basically just shuttering the whole thing to save money. With revenue down so drastically, RC served as a high cost that could easily be cut with, it turned out, little guest pushback.

Disney ultimately seemed to decide that their newer parks made RC seem obsolete, thus in a weird way, TL and BB sort of became de facto replacements for RC. It wasn't really one huge thing that led them to that choice but rather an accumulation of lots of little things. That decision, remember, wasn't even official until 2005 when a Disney rep finally admitted RC wouldn't be reopening (I assume, up to that point, it was still considered "under refurbishment").
 

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