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Return to River Country . . . And More! A New TCD Trip Report- April 2010

TCD,

I would love to have someone like you to give my family a tour of Fort Wilderness in June when we go for the first time. I am keeping notes because my kids love exploring and I want to tell them the history of FW. So how about making plans to visit the Fort again in June, whatcha say? We will even let you share our sight, we won't smoke, you can tie clothesline and hammocks to the trees and you can ride my kids bikes :thumbsup2

Don't tempt me!

Seriously, I should give tours of the Fort. I have thought about it. Especially at Christmas time. Wouldn't folks pay for a guided golf cart tour? I think they would.

But, you don't need me. I am about to post something that I think you will be able to share with your kids, and you will come out looking like a genius for the time you spent researching your trip to the Fort.

TCD
 
While I think that looking at the old rail bed behind the 700 loop is cool, I have done it before, and it is not really all that interesting to me anymore.

But, to borrow BDR’s terminology, I did find something new that I considered to be pretty friggin’ cool on this trip. And to reward those of you who are still loyally reading along, I am going to tell you exactly where you can go and see what I am showing you here for yourself.

Before we get to that, let’s review some background material.


Most people know that there used to be a railroad in Fort Wilderness, but a lot of people, myself included, do not have a clear understanding of the train’s actual course. You can see it in this old map:


FWMap1970sRailroad.jpg


So, you can see that the train ran behind the 700 loop, stopped at the Settlement Depot (which is now the golf cart parking area for the Settlement bus stop), and then headed back to the Outpost, by traveling across the entrance of the 400 and 500 loops, and then crossing the road and traveling through the area where the dog park is now. From there, the train followed along a canal for a while, and then cut back into the campground just outside the entrance to the 1500 loop. For a long time, I didn’t realize that the train re-entered the campground area in front of the 1500 loop. I thought it continued along the canal, and then turned toward the outpost area after passing the 1600-1900 loops.

But, you can still see old tracks right outside of the 1500 loop entrance:

FW809102.jpg


Here is an aerial shot of the 1500 loop taken by one of Disney’s black helicopters. The road marked Cottontail Curl is the 1500 loop. As you can see, a canal runs behind the 1500 loop, and connects up to the Meadow recreation area. Going the other way, this canal travels out into a larger canal. I’ll tell you what the stars are for as we go along in this post:

15001.jpg


This photo was taken in the area of where you see the red star in the aerial photo:

FWApril2010317.jpg


The photo of the tracks at the 1500 loop entrance was taken in the approximate area of the yellow star on the aerial photo.

I always thought that this is where the train crossed the smaller canal, and then proceeded along the path you see in this photo, which runs behind the 1500, 1600 and 1800 loops:

FWApril2010319.jpg


Just to give you an idea of the space back here, this is a view looking back toward the 1500 loop from this spot marked by the red star:

FWApril2010318.jpg


This is what you see when you look across the small canal here. To me it always looked that this mouth of the canal once had a bridge going across it:

FWApril2010320.jpg


FWApril2010321.jpg


FWApril2010322.jpg


As I was looking across the canal at the wildflowers and other things growing over there, something caught my eye. I swore that I saw a railroad track. Not just railroad ties, but with the track too. I decided that I needed to go over there to investigate.

So, I walked on out of the 1500 loop, along the canal, walked across the bridge that carries the roadway across the canal, and started walking down the other side of the canal. To my surprise, there was a steep little hill just off the road. This must have been the support for the train trellis that crossed the canal here.

As soon as I climbed that little hill, I saw something that I never thought I would see at the Fort . . .

Rails!

Look!:

FWApril2010323.jpg


FWApril2010324.jpg


FWApril2010325.jpg


If you look at these photos, you can see that these rails were covered with plant life, but you can see that a lot of it is brown and dead. The freezes from this past winter killed this all back enough to allow a view of the rails:

FWApril2010326.jpg


FWApril2010327.jpg


FWApril2010329.jpg


If you want to find this yourself, it is pretty simple. These photos were all taken in the area of the white star that you see in the aerial photo. It is just off the main road. If you go, though, please do me a favor. Let's keep this as our little Disboards Fort Fiends secret. We don't need a bunch of knuckleheads traipsing around the Fort ruining it for the rest of us. So, please keep this all on the Down Low. I don't usually tell you exactly how to see some of the stuff I have found, but I want to share this, because it is pretty friggin' cool.

I don’t know much about trains or railroads. In fact, I would have to say that I know nothing about them. But, I understand that one souvenir railroad enthusiasts look for is railroad spikes. So I looked for one.

This rail seems to have been held in place with a bolt, not a spike:

FWApril2010328.jpg


Here we see another bolt on the right. Is that a spike on the left?

FWApril2010330.jpg


These rails seem to be held apart by spacers. I think I remember reading something about these being used on the FWRR:

FWApril2010331.jpg


In these photos, you can see how fast the plant life closes in around the tracks. As the warm weather continues, it will be near impossible to get through here:

FWApril2010332.jpg


FWApril2010333.jpg


Here we see a piece of rail, but it is not connected to the tie. As I said, I know nothing about railroads, but I thought that there would be a spike holding the rail to every tie. Apparently that is not how it was done:

FWApril2010334.jpg


Here is another set of spacers:

FWApril2010335.jpg


Here you can see that weeds and stuff are already growing back:

FWApril2010336.jpg


I have no idea what this wire is for. Looks like how I would do it if I was running the railroad. And, that is not a good thing:

FWApril2010337.jpg


This is a shot of where the rail stops, as it heads along the tracks leading up to where the train trellis must have been. You can see how the rail continues back into the brush here:

FWApril2010338.jpg


So, TCD made a new discovery last week, and saw intact rails from the FWRR for the first time.

And now you have too.

Pretty friggin’ cool. No?

TCD

And remember, we are keeping this all on the D.L., got it?
 
Now here is something that I found to be quite interesting. It was always my understanding that at this point on the train’s course, the tracks curved to the right, and the trains would continue on to the Settlement Depot. But, if you look at these next two photos, you will see that the track splits here, with one set of tracks going off to the left, and the other continuing on straight ahead:

FWApril2010296.jpg


FWApril2010305.jpg


Do you see the two sets of tracks? One is off to the left, and you can see the other set just right of the center of these photos, under the small trees. I never knew about this. I don’t think the train went anywhere in this area other than the Settlement Depot. And, my understanding is that the trains were kept in a building somewhere up near the Outpost area. So, I am not sure what this split track is all about here. But, there are definitely two sets of tracks, and here are some photos of each set:


FWApril2010297.jpg


FWApril2010298.jpg


FWApril2010299.jpg


FWApril2010300.jpg


FWApril2010301.jpg

I wonder how far the second set of tracks go? Is it possible that it could be a siding? Maybe in the event of a train needing immediate repair (maybe not necessarily a derailment, but some other mechanical issue which prevented the train from being able to make it back into the car shop, round house, or whatever they called the building that they were housed in), they wanted the other trains to be able to continue? :confused3

I have absolutely no clue. Just throwing out a possibility. :)

According to this site:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~jlspence/faq_fw.htm

the Carolwood Pacific Historical Society "rescued" the trains. I have absolutely no clue how accurate any of that is. If you scroll down, you will see a question: "Was there ever a train running inside Fort Wilderness?".
 
The wire is a copper grounding wire to ground the tracks out.

I hate to claim something without pics, but I did a little exploring back in that area in 1999 and ran across them too. But alas, I didn't have a digi cam with me.
 


Here we see another bolt on the right. Is that a spike on the left?

FWApril2010330.jpg


And remember, we are keeping this all on the D.L., got it?

That is indeed a spike... I can't say I've ever seen a bolt and spike used like that to attach the rails to the ties. Is it like that at MK? Can't say I've looked at the trackwork there closely...

It is, however, perfectly normal for the rails to not be attached at every tie.

My understanding is that one of the reasons for the demise of the FWRR was the trackwork wasn't all that great, leading to relatively frequent derailments.

--Paul
 
Don't tempt me!

Seriously, I should give tours of the Fort. I have thought about it. Especially at Christmas time. Wouldn't folks pay for a guided golf cart tour? I think they would.

But, you don't need me. I am about to post something that I think you will be able to share with your kids, and you will come out looking like a genius for the time you spent researching your trip to the Fort.

TCD

What about Halloween this year? A Tri-Circle-D golf cart tour sounds awesome.
 


Such fascinating history, and more of it has vanished every year. It is a treat to be able to see it while it lasts. Thank you for sharing.
 
That was really cool. It's nice to see little bits of Disney history remaining. I will definitely be more observant on my next visit.
 
I wonder how far the second set of tracks go? Is it possible that it could be a siding? Maybe in the event of a train needing immediate repair (maybe not necessarily a derailment, but some other mechanical issue which prevented the train from being able to make it back into the car shop, round house, or whatever they called the building that they were housed in), they wanted the other trains to be able to continue? :confused3

I have absolutely no clue. Just throwing out a possibility. :)

According to this site:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~jlspence/faq_fw.htm

the Carolwood Pacific Historical Society "rescued" the trains. I have absolutely no clue how accurate any of that is. If you scroll down, you will see a question: "Was there ever a train running inside Fort Wilderness?".

You might be right. The other theory I came across was on an old discussion board. Someone said there that the original path of the train was changed when River Country opened, and that there was a new depot build across the street, and closer to the Blacksmith shop. There is a building there that was used as the River Country bus stop, so this could be true. I just have never heard of the train going there.

The wire is a copper grounding wire to ground the tracks out.

I hate to claim something without pics, but I did a little exploring back in that area in 1999 and ran across them too. But alas, I didn't have a digi cam with me.

Grounding wire, gothca. And if you say you were there, that's good enough for me- you can have bragging rights. Did you have a digital camera in 1999? I didn't get my first until 2001. And, I never used the thing.

That is indeed a spike... I can't say I've ever seen a bolt and spike used like that to attach the rails to the ties. Is it like that at MK? Can't say I've looked at the trackwork there closely...

It is, however, perfectly normal for the rails to not be attached at every tie.

My understanding is that one of the reasons for the demise of the FWRR was the trackwork wasn't all that great, leading to relatively frequent derailments.

--Paul

Thanks. Sounds like you may know a bit about trains. For what it's worth, I have never seen a bolt and a spike used like that either. But, then again, I am pretty sure this is the only time in my life that I have actually looked at a train track.

Excellent reporting TCD! Thanks for some very interesting info!:thumbsup2

You are welcome, and thanks for reading.

What about Halloween this year? A Tri-Circle-D golf cart tour sounds awesome.

You know, I had better nip this in the bud right now. I am going to stay an amateur. I have no desire to go pro. I have to keep a low profile at the Fort.

Such fascinating history, and more of it has vanished every year. It is a treat to be able to see it while it lasts. Thank you for sharing.

It is all so fascinating. I wish I had a hot tub time machine so I could travel back to see the Fort when the FWRR ran. That would truly be something.

That was really cool. It's nice to see little bits of Disney history remaining. I will definitely be more observant on my next visit.

Yes- there are things right under your nose. Make sure to look around!

Pretty friggin’ cool. YES!

Thanks.

Also, I found this map from 1978:

FWRR_Map_1978Big.jpg


This is telling me that there were, in fact bridges, across the smaller canals. But they were not for the trains. I wonder what those were there for? Anyone know?

Also note that there are no cabin loops, the Bike Barn is over by the 300 loop, and there are no swimming pools. And, look at the Wilderness Swamp Trail there on the map!!! It shows it going way out into Bay Lake!

TCD
 
TCD,

Yep, got my first digital camera in 1999. It was an Olympus Camedia C-2500L. Roughly $1200 for 2.5 meg pixels.:rotfl2: But it served me well for a few years, and was a really good camera at the time. But I guarded it like a hawk as to not break my new gadget. So no hiking expeditions with it.

pop68_c2500.jpg
 
TCD,

Yep, got my first digital camera in 1999. It was an Olympus Camedia C-2500L. Roughly $1200 for 2.5 meg pixels.:rotfl2: But it served me well for a few years, and was a really good camera at the time. But I guarded it like a hawk as to not break my new gadget. So no hiking expeditions with it.

pop68_c2500.jpg


That looks pretty cool. But $1200!!? Sometimes we forget about the technological advances that have happened in just the last 10 years. It's amazing if you think about it- digital cameras, i-pods, smart phones, etc.

TCD
 
Wow!

I think I went a little overboard there with the train photos.

So, let’s move on to something else.

It’s another mystery!

Everyone likes a mystery.

But, there’s a problem with this one.

It’s unsolved.

For now, at least.

Remember we started out looking at River Country, right?

You may have seen this stake:

FWApril2010171.jpg


So you don’t hurt your neck, or break your computer, here’s a sideways photo of it so you can read what it says:

FWApril2010172.jpg


I saw clkelley posted a photo of this same stake on another thread as well.

Big whoop, right?

But there’s more.

There’s another stake that looks like it relates to the same study way over by the entrance to the trail leading to the Wilderness Lodge:

FWApril2010384.jpg


FWApril2010385.jpg


And, there are also stakes that look like they are from the same study over by the horse barn:

FWApril2010386.jpg


And, even another stake over by the Settlement bus stop:

FWApril2010387.jpg


Since these all state they are for borings, I have to assume that there was a soil study done in this pretty large area, which basically encompasses the Tri-Circle-D Farm area as well as the newly remodeled area of River Country that is used for the Backyard Barbecue.

Why?

According the building permit we looked at earlier, they are dropping 9 grand to put a calliope display in the horse barn. They aren’t going to remove the barn right after that , are they?

But, why do an extensive (and presumably expensive) land study, unless something was being planned?

TCD will solve this mystery!

But, I am sorry to tell you it will not be in this report.

But something is up.

Mark my words.

I am sensing a new building or at least a new road coming to this area.

In case you are wondering, we are over the hump, and in the home stretch. For this trip report, that is.

So, I need to post some random photos that I took.

Here is a look at the back of site 617 (we saw the poles along the sidewalk in an earlier post- I should have posted this photo then, but it was out of order, and I overlooked it-sorry):

FWApril2010388.jpg


Once again, I am predicting this will be a fence the next time we look at it.

Here are a couple of shots taken from the dock behind the Meadow Trading Post:

FWApril2010389.jpg


FWApril2010390.jpg


Two thoughts on these (memo to the Fort management mole monitoring this thread):

1. Mix in some algaecide.
and
2. I don’t like these new campsites on the 600 loop.

Coming up . . .

Photos from Discovery Island!

(Bet you didn’t see that coming)

(And I’m serious- there are going to be some photos from Discovery Island)

(Right here on this thread)


TCD
 
Here is a look at the back of site 617 (we saw the poles along the sidewalk in an earlier post- I should have posted this photo then, but it was out of order, and I overlooked it-sorry):

FWApril2010388.jpg
I still hate this site. And now that I won't be able to sneak a hot dog off that grill as I walk by, I have no use for it at all.

Coming up . . .

Photos from Discovery Island!

(Bet you didn’t see that coming)

(And I’m serious- there are going to be some photos from Discovery Island)

(Right here on this thread)


TCD
Oh no you didn't! popcorn::
 
Edge of the seat reporting AGAIN!!!! Youre one Bad Asterisk Dude, TCD!!!!
 
I do environmental testing and sampling. Those borings could be a number of things, such as testing for pesticides/herbacides, groundwater testing, etc. I wonder if there is an underground storage tank in the barn area? It's hard to tell from the photos, but the placement of the stakes doesn't look like a typical groundwater investigation. Could be geotechnical borings related to an upcoming building project too. I see that they have the utilities marked. Won't be long until work starts.
 
I was just thinking we might take a break from the fort for a while but you have given us several reasons to go back now.

We went back in the Wilderness Swamp Trail area too, but did not venture quite as far as you did.
 

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