Real ID: Married Women Beware!

[Hikergirl]

In the case like fly girl if the document was official enough to get a new SS card with your married name on it or a passport, then it should be acceptable to use for a Real ID license.
It is pretty ridiculous that all of a sudden these documents aren't valid for gov't purposes when they were in the recent past.

 

[bcla]

My wedding certificate is from the county clerk with raised seal. It does surprise me that current PA notaries no longer use raised seals. I am not sure what they use to combat forgery, but we had a notarized letter in early June. The notary had a official spiel and her number. I saw no apparent watermark or anything similar.

I've had a bunch of stuff done by California notaries. Nothing but an ordinary stamp and a signature. The notary had a signature book where each entry had a spot for a fingerprint.

However, am I hearing it right that a certified copy of a marriage certificate also needs to be notarized? That sounds kind of odd. A marriage certificate is supposed to be "self certifying" with the documentation features, signature of the county or court clerk, and an embossed or multicolored seal. I've heard some jurisdictions have even gone to hologram seals.

 

[fly girl]

So far I think you totally win for worst Real ID complaint ever. Your situation is way worse than op’s fictional scenario. I don’t even see an emoji I would like to display my sympathy for you!

Thank you!

I will live, but it is a total pain. I wish every state did the same. Maybe I should move?

 

[TCRAIG]

And yet another reason I'm so glad that I didn't change my name when we got married! Never been an issue for us, and we've been married 30 years.

Me too - married almost 40 years - never changed my name - even though - in SC - in 1980 - it was illegal (May still be for all I know) for a woman to keep her name after she got married...

 

[wenrob]

The marriage licence/registration is needed to show the link/legal name change between maiden name and married name. Otherwise there is no way to show that the BC and the other documents don't belong to two different people. The marriage document ties all of them together as belonging to one person.

It can get even more fun when you get divorced and chose to revert back to your maiden name: you get to bring your birth certificate, marriage certificate, divorce decree, plus other supporting ID. After going through that to change all my ID back to my maiden name I vowed I was never changing my name again.

SW

But my name had already been changed with the DMV 25 years prior. I wasn’t changing my name, it was/IS my legal name. I’d already shown that proof when I changed everything after I got married. If you look at my post after this it even says on the DMV website that I didn’t need it.

 

[AppleDumpling]

I plan to wait until my license expires. I have a valid passport and will use that when I travel until then. It’s not a big deal to me. I changed my name with SSA when I got married and also changed my name on my DL. Both are the same as my passport so it’s not an issue for me. In hindsight, if I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t have changed my name.

 

[MillauFr]

Me too - married almost 40 years - never changed my name - even though - in SC - in 1980 - it was illegal (May still be for all I know) for a woman to keep her name after she got married...

Crazy. You shouldn't be able to change your name when you get married. Your name at birth should be your name through out your life.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But here is the thing in Ohio.

You have your Maiden name on Birth Certificate
You got married. You changed your last name. When you did, you went to SS office and used your Marriage Certificate. (the pretty one with the gold letters)
You have your Married name on SS
You then changed your DL to match new married name. Since you have your SS and DL, Passport follows suit.
You have your Married name on DL
You have your Married name on Passport

Now to get REAL ID, your Marriage Certificate you once used to prove you got married to SS is no longer valid. They don't take the pretty one with gold letters. You now have to contact the county in which you were married and obtain a certified and notarized copy.

The problem lies in the fact the Marriage Certificate the SS office accepted, isn't being accepted by your state. And that's how the frustration snowballs. Especially if you were married in a different state.

Here's where I think the disconnect is at least at the state level.

A SS card is not an acceptable form to prove your FULL LEGAL NAME. The only docs you can show for that is BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, or document(s) issued by the US DHS (Department of Homeland Security) for Ohio (info taken from Ohio's website).

The SS card is required but proves only your Social Security Number.

If your Passport has your married name on it you should be fine according to Ohio's resources.

Go up and read the link I posted about Ohio. They have to have paper trail why you changed your name. You have to show proof of marriage.

I got married in PA. It says "Original Copy" on the bottom and has a number, but it is not with any seal/embossment/notarized stamp. Our names are hand written by our priest who married us. SS office took it without hesitation in 2000. I was able to change everything legally using that certificate. I don't know why I need a certified/notarized one now.

What do yours look like?

So maybe then the question is when did Social Security offices start requiring certified copies of marriage certificates to change your name? I had to have one back in 2013 in order to do so. So just because you were able to get your SS card back in 2000 with no certified copy I couldn't do the same in 2013 when I got married.

I totally get the frustration though!

Well, I just looked it up on the county in PA that I was married in.

I definitely have the "plain" certificate. It will not work. It was the only one given to us in 2000 when we were married. It had to be the standard back then, otherwise how was I able to use it to obtain SS, DL, and Passport.

To get the "Triple Seal" certificate, I have to have them search & order for $10.


...I am going to say it. It is stupid. I mean, I can show them my old SS and my married SS cards with the same number. But that isn't good enough. I need to waste my time and $10 -- and I will, but it is ridiculous. And I know I can use my passport. But I want the ease of both. So, I jump the hoops. But with the trail you can easily find on all our government stuff you'd think my first edition marriage certificate would be good enough. NOPE!

I had to pay $10 for each certified copy. I can get a non-certified copy for free (as I would just print it off at home) by doing a records search online through the county I got married in.

 

[fly girl]

Here's where I think the disconnect is at least at the state level.

A SS card is not an acceptable form to prove your FULL LEGAL NAME. The only docs you can show for that is BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, or document(s) issued by the US DHS (Department of Homeland Security) for Ohio (info taken from Ohio's website).

The SS card is required but proves only your Social Security Number.

If your Passport has your married name on it you should be fine according to Ohio's resources.

So maybe then the question is when did Social Security offices start requiring certified copies of marriage certificates to change your name? I had to have one back in 2013 in order to do so. So just because you were able to get your SS card back in 2000 with no certified copy I couldn't do the same in 2013 when I got married.

I totally get the frustration though!
I had to pay $10 for each certified copy. I can get a non-certified copy for free (as I would just print it off at home) by doing a records search online through the county I got married in.

In Ohio, if the names on BC and Passport DO NOT match, you have to show proof how they connect. (Marriage Certificate) Go to Ohio BMV and you will see you must show proof.

Back then, my Marriage Certificate was a valid document. It is given by the county in PA with a number and signed by the commissioner. It does not have a seal. That's where the issue lies. I was able to obtain my DL and Passport using that copy too. I used that document every time I needed to show proof with no problems. But that was years ago and now it is obviously no longer accepted. Sometime in the last 19 years, they changed it. (I did do a google search to see if women in that county were complaining. A local TV station website had a post about REAL ID and many women in the comments were saying the same thing I did.)

So, the reality is that the Marriage Certificate was once valid enough is not valid anymore. Probably they were easy to forge, idk totally guessing. Or maybe the states thought of another way to gain revenue.

 

[bcla]

Here's where I think the disconnect is at least at the state level.

A SS card is not an acceptable form to prove your FULL LEGAL NAME. The only docs you can show for that is BIRTH CERTIFICATE, PASSPORT, or document(s) issued by the US DHS (Department of Homeland Security) for Ohio (info taken from Ohio's website).

The SS card is required but proves only your Social Security Number.

If your Passport has your married name on it you should be fine according to Ohio's resources.

So maybe then the question is when did Social Security offices start requiring certified copies of marriage certificates to change your name? I had to have one back in 2013 in order to do so. So just because you were able to get your SS card back in 2000 with no certified copy I couldn't do the same in 2013 when I got married.

I totally get the frustration though!
I had to pay $10 for each certified copy. I can get a non-certified copy for free (as I would just print it off at home) by doing a records search online through the county I got married in.

The requirements seem to have gotten tougher over the years starting around the 9/11 attacks, although many of the stricter requirements didn't happen all at once. The State Dept and other agencies used to be lax about what documents they would accept, including unofficial hospital birth certificates for passport applications and certain document forms that seem kind of odd today. One was that birth certificates must have the names of both parents or documents must have some sort of official seal. Here's an example of what PA would issue, unless the names of both parents were requested. The other thing about the PA birth certificate is that it only lists the county of birth. I think there is a seal but it doesn't show up well in this photo.

As far as ordering these documents go, it all depends on a number of factors including where you live. The county where we requested our marriage license charges $19. In California there's also a requirement to present an identification that shows that I'm legally entitled (there's a long list but being one member or a child of the married couple is the most common) to an "unrestricted copy" as opposed to an "informational copy" that's identical other than a legend that says it's not valid for identification purposes. If that's on the marriage certificate, nobody is going to accept it for a passport, although one might be useful in court. I've presented my ID in person, but if I mail in my application, I would also need to have my application notarized where my ID is presented to the notary. That's a typical $10 fee in California, although it could be a notary in another state.

 

[fly girl]

I plan to wait until my license expires. I have a valid passport and will use that when I travel until then. It’s not a big deal to me. I changed my name with SSA when I got married and also changed my name on my DL. Both are the same as my passport so it’s not an issue for me. In hindsight, if I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t have changed my name.

That's what I thought. Changed everything like you did. But...

As long as you don't live in one of the podunk states (like me!) that makes you show proof why your BC and Passport have different last names, you are good to go! And even then if you have a super sealed and stamped Marriage Certificate (If you were married recently you should be a-ok) that is all you need.

If you have an older non compliant version of a Marriage Certificate (even if issued by the county) you'll need to request a new one that is super sealed and stamped. (ok just sealed, but I like saying super sealed and stamped better)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So, the reality is that the Marriage Certificate was once valid enough is not valid anymore. Probably they were easy to forge, idk totally guessing.

I think maybe this is where your frustration lies (and I could totally be wrong). You were able to get a SS card without a certified copy before. Had you not been able to get a SS card with your married name without having a certified copy then it would just be the annoyance of having to pay and order one rather than looking at it as "what was once acceptable is no longer acceptable".

For someone like me who had to get a certified copy of my marriage certificate for my name change on my DL and my SS card and then get another one to get a new passport with my married name it's not so much an annoyance to get the certified copy because that had already been previously required for me.

In Ohio, if the names on BC and Passport DO NOT match, you have to show proof how they connect. (Marriage Certificate) Go to Ohio BMV and you will see you must show proof.

This is from Ohio's website in regards to getting the REAL-ID




Now if you go to the PDF file for the list of acceptable documents it will show this:


So again if your passport you are using for proof of your FULL LEGAL NAME reflects your married name according to the sources above you should be ok. You don't need a passport AND a birth certificate. If you have a Passport already with the married name use that and according to the sources you should be ok. Am I misunderstanding something? (and apologies if I am) If your passport was never changed to your married name then it goes back to what we were originally talking about where that step was never taken.

 

[fly girl]

I think maybe this is where your frustration lies (and I could totally be wrong). You were able to get a SS card without a certified copy before. Had you not been able to get a SS card with your married name without having a certified copy then it would just be the annoyance of having to pay and order one rather than looking at it as "what was once acceptable is no longer acceptable".

For someone like me who had to get a certified copy of my marriage certificate for my name change on my DL and my SS card and then get another one to get a new passport with my married name it's not so much an annoyance to get the certified copy because that had already been previously required for me.



This is from Ohio's website in regards to getting the REAL-ID

View attachment 420463
View attachment 420464

Now if you go to the PDF file for the list of acceptable documents it will show this:
View attachment 420465

So again if your passport you are using for proof of your FULL LEGAL NAME reflects your married name according to the sources above you should be ok. You don't need a passport AND a birth certificate. If you have a Passport already with the married name use that and according to the sources you should be ok. Am I misunderstanding something? (and apologies if I am) If your passport was never changed to your married name then it goes back to what we were originally talking about where that step was never taken.

Yes, frustration lies with Marriage Certificate no longer having any validity.

Hmmm...

That is very interesting. Every time I did the checklist previously it had both passport and birth certificate. Granted, I hadn't checked in a while until today since my DL is still good for a while and I have a passport. And today I saw the pop up with valid proof of name change saying both forms not matching. OMG, was I reading it wrong the whole time? All my whining and moaning for naught?

But why then have I heard so many complaints about it? I know people who had Passports with their married name and had issues so this is a shock! (and yes my passport has my married name.)

Did Ohio finally realize it was a load of BS and change it? I can't believe the last 5 pages of me going on and on are all inaccurate. Oh sweet fancy Moses!!! I'll have to ask around and find out.

Good Lord, if true I am a dope!!

 

[bcla]

Yes, frustration lies with Marriage Certificate no longer having any validity.

If there’s any frustration it would be due to higher standards. California counties used to issue abstract vital record copies without a seal. Some governments used to issue birth certificates in a laminated card form. Puerto Rico even invalidated all birth certificates and required new ones be ordered. You should see the problems with Texas birth records.

The agencies that ask for these docs want ones that are supposedly more secure. Need to have more information. Has to have a seal that’s harder to counterfeit. Yeah it may be a pain ordering new documents, but it’s not for an overly bureaucratic reason per se.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

When I got my Real Id in Florida (which I thought was just renewing my license at the time), I took the ID I needed in NC & was denied. I had to return a second time with the ridiculous amount of info they required. I can understand why it's a problem for some people, but it isn't only a female problem. I have a Jr. & III in my house. If they ever made the mistake of dropping the suffix for an official document, they would be in the same situation.

 

[AquamarineSteph]

I am glad I read this thread. For ages, Tennessee said that our driver's licenses were on the list for being Real ID compliant. (I was shocked, but yay.) Then they released a statement this year that everyone who wants a Real ID will have to come in person and present your documents to acquire one. If it's time for renewal, your Real ID won't cost any more than a regular driver's license. If it's not time to renew, then you'll be charged a duplicate fee (which varies, depending on whether or not you've previously requested a duplicate license.)

From the wording, it seems that if your passport is valid and has your married name on it, then you do not need to bring a birth certificate. For your Social Security number, they need to see the card OR a W-2 form or a 1099 from the last 12 months with your SS# on it.

I'm not looking forward to doing this. Lines are always insanely long at the driver centers, and this won't improve things if everyone in the state has to do this. (Note to self - see if it's possible to take water & snacks while standing in line.)

 

[Music City Mama]

I am glad I read this thread. For ages, Tennessee said that our driver's licenses were on the list for being Real ID compliant. (I was shocked, but yay.) Then they released a statement this year that everyone who wants a Real ID will have to come in person and present your documents to acquire one. If it's time for renewal, your Real ID won't cost any more than a regular driver's license. If it's not time to renew, then you'll be charged a duplicate fee (which varies, depending on whether or not you've previously requested a duplicate license.)

From the wording, it seems that if your passport is valid and has your married name on it, then you do not need to bring a birth certificate. For your Social Security number, they need to see the card OR a W-2 form or a 1099 from the last 12 months with your SS# on it.

I'm not looking forward to doing this. Lines are always insanely long at the driver centers, and this won't improve things if everyone in the state has to do this. (Note to self - see if it's possible to take water & snacks while standing in line.)

I agree with everything you said. Supposedly, Tennessee was Real ID compliant, but now you need to get one.

Also, I have read the requirements multiple times (at least for TN) and agree with your assessment that it states that if your passport has your married name on it, you don't need to provide a birth certificate, etc. I guess they assume that the Department of State (or whichever agency issues passports, I forget) has already done their due diligence in order to issue the passport. It seems that if you don't have your passport, though, you will be required to document name changes if your driver's license and birth certificate have different names. That means a marriage certificate (or proof of any other name changes for other reasons other than marriage).

After I got married 19 years ago, I purchased certified copies at the county office, and I'm pretty sure I had to provide the certified version to the Social Security Administration. It does seem like this can be hassle for some people without a passport -- I don't think just women -- what about men who were adopted and they have a different name on their DL than birth certificate?

You have to provide less info to the passport office (no proof of name changes), but I guess they have a better means of doing background checks and/or connecting the dots... not sure. Anyhow, I'm up for renewal next year, so I guess I'll be going through this process, but fortunately, I have a passport already.

 

[AppleDumpling]

That's what I thought. Changed everything like you did. But...

As long as you don't live in one of the podunk states (like me!) that makes you show proof why your BC and Passport have different last names, you are good to go! And even then if you have a super sealed and stamped Marriage Certificate (If you were married recently you should be a-ok) that is all you need.

If you have an older non compliant version of a Marriage Certificate (even if issued by the county) you'll need to request a new one that is super sealed and stamped. (ok just sealed, but I like saying super sealed and stamped better)

I’m married almost 30 years and have lived in New York my entire life. According to the NYS DMV website, I do not need to show my birth certificate or my marriage certificate. Just my current license, SS card, passport, and proof of residency, which is something like a pay stub, utility bill, or bank statement.

Lines at DMV are always long here, but at some locations you can make an appointment which makes it much faster (provided you have the proper documentation).

 

[Searc]

Out of curiosity, I checked my state's Real ID requirements and if you have a valid, unexpired passport in your current (married) name, you don't need a birth or marriage certificate.

 

[robinb]

Yet another reason to avoid changing your name. I never did and had zero problems with Real ID.