Real ID: Married Women Beware!

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For ages, Tennessee said that our driver's licenses were on the list for being Real ID compliant. (I was shocked, but yay.) Then they released a statement this year that everyone who wants a Real ID will have to come in person and present your documents to acquire one.

Supposedly, Tennessee was Real ID compliant, but now you need to get one.

No you guys ARE compliant but there were changes made, and I don't exactly remember when that happened, that upped what information (and maybe even how the information is shared can't exactly remember) needed to be contained within the DL.

KS has been compliant since 2007. However, with the updated requirements we, like many other states, will no longer be compliant effective October 1, 2020. The REAL ID themselves has the gold star on it so when you renew if you opt to get a REAL ID it will have the gold star.

My state started issuing REAL IDs in August 2017.

I was surprised as you were though that now I needed to get a new DL that is actually a REAL ID one with a gold star but I've personally know about it since summer of 2017 when my state started issuing them.

 

[Kathryn Merteuil]

I have a real ID. I got it a few years ago when I moved from IL to IN. I know it was a bit of a hassle. I know you have to show what they called a "chain". I know it took a couple trips to the BMV. At the time I had been married twice, 2 divorces...yea to say it was a hassle gathering all of that paperwork is an understatement.

Thankfully a name change on DL after getting married again was easier because the "heavy lifting" had already been done.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, frustration lies with Marriage Certificate no longer having any validity.

Hmmm...

That is very interesting. Every time I did the checklist previously it had both passport and birth certificate. Granted, I hadn't checked in a while until today since my DL is still good for a while and I have a passport. And today I saw the pop up with valid proof of name change saying both forms not matching. OMG, was I reading it wrong the whole time? All my whining and moaning for naught?

But why then have I heard so many complaints about it? I know people who had Passports with their married name and had issues so this is a shock! (and yes my passport has my married name.)

Did Ohio finally realize it was a load of BS and change it? I can't believe the last 5 pages of me going on and on are all inaccurate. Oh sweet fancy Moses!!! I'll have to ask around and find out.

Good Lord, if true I am a dope!!

My guess is names not matching somewhere (either the passport if that was used, the SS card, the address verification) but that's purely a guess.

I mean if you have your Passport, your SS card and your verification of your address all with the same name I can't see where an issue should arise. But I'm not an Ohio DMV worker lol so who knows what conversations are going on.

If I had never changed my passport last year to my married name (which was over 5 years after I got married lol) I would be in the same situation where I would need to submit a certified copy of my marriage certificate to show why my birth certificate (or passport with my maiden name) was not matching my SS card and my address verification documents. But again maybe for others you're hearing about it could be that what was once acceptable in terms of the marriage certificate is no longer acceptable.

I have no idea when the or vs and happened but certainly can see where that would create issues. I can see that effective July 2nd, 2018 that Ohio started issuing REAL IDs.

 

[georgina]

Go up and read the link I posted about Ohio. They have to have paper trail why you changed your name. You have to show proof of marriage.

I got married in PA. It says "Original Copy" on the bottom and has a number, but it is not with any seal/embossment/notarized stamp. Our names are hand written by our priest who married us. SS office took it without hesitation in 2000. I was able to change everything legally using that certificate. I don't know why I need a certified/notarized one now.

What do yours look like?

Well that is very interesting, just went and checked my Ohio marriage license from 1987. It has a raised seal surrounded by the words Cuyahoga County Probate Court on it. My SS card was updated and matches my Passport so I guess I will find out if PA requires anything more when my DL renewal comes up.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

If you don't want to take your passport with you on every domestic flight after Oct 1, 2020, you will need to convert your driver's license to a Real ID. Then you can fly with just your license. This system will probably work well for most men, but many married women are going to be shut out of obtaining a Real ID.

In order to get a Real ID, you must bring a lot of official documentation proving who you are to your state's DMV. At least in my state, and I think in most, possibly all, the DMV will run the information on your documentation proving who you are through the Social Security Administration's database. If your identifying documents don't perfectly match Social Security's records, you will be denied a Real ID driver's license.

This system will work just fine for most men. They don't change their names when they get married. But for many women, this is going to be a big problem.

If Mary Jane Smith marries John Robert Doe, John's records throughout his life will probably remain consistent. He was, and always will be, John Robert Doe. He will get his Real ID with no issues as long as he brings in the required documents.

But if Mary Jane Smith Doe has some of her official documents (say a driver's license and passport) in the name of Mary Jane Doe, and her Social Security records are in the name of Mary Smith Doe, she will be denied a Real ID, no matter how much official documentation she brings to the DMV to prove who she is. Her choices will then be to travel with her passport for the rest of her life every time she flies domestically, or she can try to change her name with the SSA to Mary Jane Doe. Good luck with that, Mary. The SSA isn't known for perfectly handling important changes to their records, and it's pretty important that the records they keep are accurate because they involve withholding, Social Security, Medicare, etc. How many women are going to want to take that chance?

Some married women are going to be lucky to have consistent records. Millions aren't going to be that lucky. Apparently not one of the geniuses who created this law gave a moment's thought to solving a concern that potentially affects the female half of the US population. Sigh....

I have to get my marriage license and my divorce decree from my first marriage (I didn't keep either), a new copy of my birth certificate (apparently mine is too worn...papers wear after almost 50 years, sheesh) and my second marriage certificate (which I have). I've been Mrs Bianca And Bernard for 20 years (in August!!) but I still have to prove I'm me. So frustrating.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

the requirements for a birth certificate as a "primary document" these days absolutely requires something with some sort of seal and a certification statement.

Not true. In our county, there's no seal. But there is a "this is a certified copy of an original document" statement. And it worked for passports for all our kids.

 

[Pooh2]

We just did our Real Id.
Took an afternoon of searching the file cabinet for all the listed documents and an hour and a half at the DMV.
Felt like a scavenger hunt!

 

[MumziMom]

Me too - married almost 40 years - never changed my name - even though - in SC - in 1980 - it was illegal (May still be for all I know) for a woman to keep her name after she got married...

That is so crazy! Illegal to keep your own name? My best friend married a wonderful gentleman from Virginia, and at the time he was upset about the idea of women keeping names, as it somehow diluted the family - until I pointed out that my dad was a single child, and had no sons, and his last name was a little uncommon, so his branch name would be lost - also, I had done quite a bit of family genealogy research, and the "dead ends" were almost always because I could not find the pre-marriage name of the woman in a couple. So her side would often get lost, so women giving up their names was a problem, from a genealogy standpoint. He was very much into family history. He heard this, went "huh" - he had never thought about it this way, and didn't mention it again. I kept my last name for a whole slew of reasons, and I'm just so glad that I did.

 

[slpeters]

I didn't realize that so many people changed their name in one sense but not the other. When I got married one of the first things we did after getting back into town was to both go and have our social security, passports and IDs changed. I have securities licenses and my employer was very insistent that any name change had to be complete and immediate to avoid me conducting business for even a moment under a name that wasn't legally mine. There were cards and placards and the like in the new name waiting for me when I got back from the wedding trip. They even re-etched the glass in my office while I was away.

On a side note I wonder if I'm the only man in the thread who changed his name when he got married...

 

[bcla]

Not true. In our county, there's no seal. But there is a "this is a certified copy of an original document" statement. And it worked for passports for all our kids.

That's not what the State Department says. They say the birth certificate must have some sort of seal or official stamp. I remember in previous versions it said a raised or embossed seal or a multicolored stamp. I've seen a few of the latter such as on a college transcript or a passport stamp.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/citizenship-evidence.htmlSubmit an original or certified copy of your citizenship evidence AND a photocopy when you apply

• A certified copy is any document that has the seal or stamp of the official issuing authority.

Primary
Born in the United States?
Fully-valid, undamaged U.S. passport (can be expired)

• U.S. birth certificatethat meets the following requirements:
  • Issued by the city, county, or state of birth
  • Lists applicant’s full name, date of birth, and place of birth
  • Lists parent(s)’ full names
  • Has the signature of the city, county, or state registrar
  • Has the date filed with registrar's office (must be within one year of birth)
  • Has the seal of issuing authority

Please note: Some states issue birth abstracts which are a summary of your original birth record. Most birth abstracts meet all the requirements listed above, while some birth abstracts do not meet these requirements. If you submit a birth abstract, it must meet all of the requirements above. If your birth abstract does not meet all the requirements above, we may also need you to submit a long-form birth certificate showing a copy of your original birth record.

There's always the chance that someone working in the Bureau of Consular Affairs just lets it slide, but they're not supposed to. Way back when, some California counties issued a printout birth abstract that was on a small piece of paper and had no seal. Maybe 20 years ago the State Dept would accept those. However, these days their standards are supposed to be higher. All counties (and a few cities too) in California (plus the state dept of health) now issue certified copies of birth certificates with embossed seals that are more or less photocopies of a portion of the originally filed birth certificate. For all copies I've gotten for our child, the resolution isn't necessarily that high though - more like a FAX transmission. It's saved as some sort of low res image that gets printed on banknote style paper.

 

[bcla]

Not true. In our county, there's no seal. But there is a "this is a certified copy of an original document" statement. And it worked for passports for all our kids.

May I asked what county? Or maybe just the state? A lot of states are uniform in their requirements even if counties are the ones to issue to vital records.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

May I asked what county? Or maybe just the state? A lot of states are uniform in their requirements even if counties are the ones to issue to vital records.

Orange County, CA.

All there is a endorsement statement, signed by the county registrar that it's an official copy of an original document. No raised seal.

 

[maxaroni]

I didn't realize that so many people changed their name in one sense but not the other. When I got married one of the first things we did after getting back into town was to both go and have our social security, passports and IDs changed. I have securities licenses and my employer was very insistent that any name change had to be complete and immediate to avoid me conducting business for even a moment under a name that wasn't legally mine. There were cards and placards and the like in the new name waiting for me when I got back from the wedding trip. They even re-etched the glass in my office while I was away.

On a side note I wonder if I'm the only man in the thread who changed his name when he got married...

Don’t know if this is what you did but I met someone who hyphenated her name when she got married, her DH also hyphenated his name. They were both John & Mary Jones-Smith. They had children and the children were all Jone-Smith, too.

 

[maxaroni]

Didn’t read the whole thread, so apologize if this has been posted. NJ got an extension to have Real ID extended or something to that effect. We are only starting to be able to get Real ID this summer. From what I read, they are starting in one county and then working out the kinks and slowly making it statewide. We have passports, so not a big deal if we wait until our licenses expire. We’ll see how close we are to expiration once we have the capability. Not going to rush down to the MVC, that is for sure. We don’t fly for business and our flights for vacation have been international, so need the passport. The couple of times a year we fly domestic, the passport is fine for us.

As far as changing names, I am called by my middle name and never even thought about it. Therefore, I had some things middle name, last name. Some things first middle last name and other things with initial. I finally had everything of importance changed to match, even changing my social security card. It was a hassle but not as bad as I anticipated. I did need my birth certificate and my marriage license. My birth certificate to prove I was born as my first name/middle name. Then marriage license for that change. Back when I got my social security card, I went by what I was called, not thinking it would matter. Things are much different these days so glad I did get it taken care of. Now social security cards are gotten at birth, if that was me, it would have been done first name/middle name without thinking what I would be called.

I have an office coworker who has the same issues with being called by his middle name and didn’t have it uniform. I knew when DH and I were thinking of having children, (s)he would not have that issue.

 

[amberpi]

I’m on marriage number 3. I use my passport for all official purposes. I’m not medically cleared to drive so I reckon I’ll just keep using my passport even when I get cleared to drive again (hopefully soon, please send good thoughts!) but this sounds like a nightmare for me.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Don’t know if this is what you did but I met someone who hyphenated her name when she got married, her DH also hyphenated his name. They were both John & Mary Jones-Smith. They had children and the children were all Jone-Smith, too.

I also know a couple who did that (and both had three-syllable names to begin with!)

I only changed mine to my DH's, but I do remember being advised by a friend who had gotten married a few months before me to change my social security card first, and then my driver's license, to make everything easier.

 

[bcla]

Orange County, CA.

All there is a endorsement statement, signed by the county registrar that it's an official copy of an original document. No raised seal.

California currently has a uniform requirement now for all vital records including birth certificates, marriage certificates, and death certificates. It has to be on a standard multicolored banknote sheet, although there are multiple suppliers.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=HSC&division=102.&title=&part=1.&chapter=14.&article=103526.5.​

(a) Each certified copy of a birth, death, or marriage record issued pursuant to Section 103525 shall include the date issued, the name of the issuing officer, the signature of the issuing officer, whether that is the State Registrar, local registrar, county recorder, or county clerk, or an authorized facsimile thereof, and the seal of the issuing office.​

(b) All certified copies of birth, death, and marriage records issued pursuant to Section 103525 shall be printed on chemically sensitized security paper that measures 81/2 inches by 11 inches and that has the following features:​

(1) Intaglio print.​

(2) Latent image.​

(3) Fluorescent, consecutive numbering with matching barcode.​

(4) Microprint line.​

(5) Prismatic printing.​

(6) Watermark.​

(7) Void pantograph.​

(8) Fluorescent security threads.​

(9) Fluorescent fibers.​

(10) Any other security features deemed necessary by the State Registrar.​

(c) (1) The State Registrar may suspend the use of any security feature described in subdivision (b) if necessary to enable the State Registrar, local registrar, county recorder, or county clerk to supply an applicant with a certified copy of a birth, death, or marriage record issued pursuant to Section 103525.​

(2) Notwithstanding the rulemaking provisions of the Administrative Procedure Act (Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 11340) of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of the Government Code), the department may implement this subdivision through all-county letters or similar instructions from the State Registrar without taking regulatory action.​

(d) The State Registrar, local registrars, county recorders, and county clerks shall take precautions to ensure that uniform and consistent standards are used statewide to safeguard the security paper described in subdivision (b), including, but not limited to, the following measures:​

(1) Security paper shall be maintained under secure conditions so as not to be accessible to the public.​

(2) A log shall be kept of all visitors allowed in the area where security paper is stored.​

(3) All spoilage shall be accounted for and subsequently destroyed by shredding on the premises.​

I don't believe they've issued anything without a seal in years. I've done stuff with mine before including making photocopies of our child's birth certificate and our marriage certificates. All of them show that faint "VOID" in the background when we make photocopies. I've seen the watermarks. Some use generic "PROTECTED DOCUMENT" watermarks, but the state's paper has repeated images of the state seal. I've also seen "spoilage" in action, where a clerk made a mistake and had to cross it out, note the serial number on a list, and place it in a tray for eventual shredding.

The State Department standards say that there has to be some sort of seal. This PDF document shows an image of the old abstract of birth from LA County, which should be the same layout as Orange County. I found some images of Orange County abstracts, but they have names and other personal information. I use this one because it doesn't show any names. I believe this form would not be considered acceptable by the State Dept for current passport applications. I have heard that some counties might exchange one for a current version for free, but I haven't heard of any publicizing it. They also claim that it won't be accepted by the State Dept for a passport application.

http://studyabroad.tamu.edu/StudyAbroad/media/Study-Abroad-Image/Birth-Certificate-Info-Sheet.pdf

 

[bcla]

I’m on marriage number 3. I use my passport for all official purposes. I’m not medically cleared to drive so I reckon I’ll just keep using my passport even when I get cleared to drive again (hopefully soon, please send good thoughts!) but this sounds like a nightmare for me.

I still like the passport card even though a lot of people ask why. Does TN have non-DL IDs?

 

[disney11fan]

I didn't realize that so many people changed their name in one sense but not the other. When I got married one of the first things we did after getting back into town was to both go and have our social security, passports and IDs changed. I have securities licenses and my employer was very insistent that any name change had to be complete and immediate to avoid me conducting business for even a moment under a name that wasn't legally mine. There were cards and placards and the like in the new name waiting for me when I got back from the wedding trip. They even re-etched the glass in my office while I was away.

On a side note I wonder if I'm the only man in the thread who changed his name when he got married...

Wait. Did I miss something.. did you as the guy change your last name to your wife's...?

 

[bcla]

So how do your states deal with minor name differences? Passports and passport cards can pretty much include anything including hyphens/dashes.

I have an issue like that. My state eventually dropped all hyphens and spaces, so the name in my driver license doesn't match the name on my passport. Whenever I apply for a passport I include several permutations of my name under "other names used". I've yet to have a problem using any of my IDs even though I've had all sorts of different versions of my name on airline boarding passes.

It might be possible to get it back, but I remember back in the early 90s I was told they had to drop all hyphens and spaces.