Point Chart Understanding

[coos_hall]

Question for the group: are DVC total point allocations exclusive only to one resort?

i.e. Will Saratoga Springs only ever have the same amount of points at that resort unless new rooms are built?

I know the amount of points in existence doesn't increase or decrease unless new rooms are constructed but is that across DVC as a whole or is that just at any given resort. Could, for example, they go "saratoga is awfully popular right now we need to make rooms cost more points there" and proceed to move points over from another resort, say Old Key West, making rooms more expensive over at Saratoga, but in turn making things cheaper at Old Key West?

 

[erionm]

Question for the group: are DVC total point allocations exclusive only to one resort?

i.e. Will Saratoga Springs only ever have the same amount of points at that resort unless new rooms are built?

Yes.

Could, for example, they go "saratoga is awfully popular right now we need to make rooms cost more points there" and proceed to move points over from another resort, say Old Key West, making rooms more expensive over at Saratoga, but in turn making things cheaper at Old Key West?

No.

 

[gregskellington]

They are based on condo association, they can't move between condos.

 

[coos_hall]

Ahhhhh perfect, thank you for the responses all.

 

[Sandisw]

Only way to increase points at a resort is to add rooms, and add them to the same condo association, just like they did with VGF and the new resort studios. .

 

[drusba]

Total points for a resort are determined by total possible ownership interests in the particular resort and the number cannot change absent an addition of new rooms to the resort (such as its now happening at VGF). They cannot move points from one resort to another.

Nevertheless, total points derived from any home-resort point chart for a resort can actually go up or down some annually. Total owned points are set according to a 365-day base year usually chosen at time of the resort's creation, and those total points created are spread through the rooms annually. The POS allows the total in the home resort point charts to change annually according to natural changes in the calendar, but not otherwise. Thus, points for all rooms will be added to a calendar for one day, Feb 29, during a leap year. Also, you can get some variances annually due to some weekend changes, e.g., total points for a year can rise somewhat in the higher point seasons because a particular season or seasons, based on its set calendar dates, has an additional weekend day from a prior year. DVCM, the managing company, also has the power to meet changes in seasonal demand by increasing b v bnh6points needed daily in a season while lowering them by an equal amount in another season.

A different issue potentially exists for the 7-month window. Throughout DVC's history, there has only been the home resort point charts, used for both the 11-month window and 7-month window. According to the POS documents, BVTC, the entity actually designated to be responsible for reservations by members using points from one resort to reserve a different resort at 7-months out, has always had the power to create separate 7-month point charts that differ from the home resort charts in order to attempt to even out demand by members for resorts they do not own, which 7-month charts would have no limit to the total number of points that could be in the annual calendar. For example, BVTC could create point charts for the near-park resorts that have much higher daily point requirements for the rooms when reserving at 7-months out as opposed to 11-months out because there is no stated limit to the total number points that can be in a 7-month point chart.

 

[FionaP]

Only way to increase points at a resort is to add rooms, and add them to the same condo association, just like they did with VGF and the new resort studios. .

If they do this, can they increase the points on the existing rooms? Asking as a now worried Polynesian owner.

 

[Sandisw]

If they do this, can they increase the points on the existing rooms? Asking as a now worried Polynesian owner.

Two schools of thoughts on that. Some would say no because those unit totals have been decided not only for sale but for use, with only calendar changes allowed to impact that.

Some believe that they have the right to adjust over the whole resort as long as the totals match based on the resort.

I have not yet find anything to clarify one way or the other on whether what the rules are for sale can change.

They did it with SSR when they added the treehouse villas which are now more points, but it has never been challenged legally so no one can say for sure.

So, is there a chance they could reallocate across it all if they believe they have that authority like with the treehouses ? Yes.

Could it be challenged by owners? Possibly

With the resort being mostly studios, though, I don’t see them making those types of shifts because they new tower will have different rooms and it may not be needed.

It will really depend on the types of rooms that are built before I would even consider speculating or worrying about it.

 

[eticketplease]

A different issue potentially exists for the 7-month window. Throughout DVC's history, there has only been the home resort point charts, used for both the 11-month window and 7-month window. According to the POS documents, BVTC, the entity actually designated to be responsible for reservations by members using points from one resort to reserve a different resort at 7-months out, has always had the power to create separate 7-month point charts that differ from the 11-month charts in order to attempt to even out demand by members for resorts they do not own, which 7-month charts would have no limit to the total number of points that could be in the annual calendar. For example, BVTC could create point charts for the near-park resorts that have much higher daily point requirements for the rooms when reserving at 7-months out as opposed to 11-months out because there is no stated limit to the total number points that can be in a 7-month point chart.

WOW I was not aware of this!! Thanks for the great information.

 

[Chuck S]

A different issue potentially exists for the 7-month window. Throughout DVC's history, there has only been the home resort point charts, used for both the 11-month window and 7-month window. According to the POS documents, BVTC, the entity actually designated to be responsible for reservations by members using points from one resort to reserve a different resort at 7-months out, has always had the power to create separate 7-month point charts that differ from the home resort charts in order to attempt to even out demand by members for resorts they do not own, which 7-month charts would have no limit to the total number of points that could be in the annual calendar. For example, BVTC could create point charts for the near-park resorts that have much higher daily point requirements for the rooms when reserving at 7-months out as opposed to 11-months out because there is no stated limit to the total number points that can be in a 7-month point chart.

From a practical standpoint, though, I really don't see that happening. The sheer confusion for members, and the programming necessary to add this to the reservation system would...well...likely implode the system, as glitchy as it already is. I think they would shorten the home resort window to one month before they made that kind of change....and as they haven't even done that in 30 years. I believe it to be unlikely...with the exception of maybe the final two years before our contracts expire, to help control demand.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Who wants to get into the lock-off premium and really confuse the hell out of OP?

 

[eticketplease]

From a practical standpoint, though, I really don't see that happening. The sheer confusion for members, and the programming necessary to add this to the reservation system would...well...likely implode the system, as glitchy as it already is. I think they would shorten the home resort window to one month before they made that kind of change....and as they haven't even done that in 30 years. I believe it to be unlikely...with the exception of maybe the final two years before our contracts expire, to help control demand.

Yes I certainly hope that this is never implemented!!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

DVCM, the managing company, also has the power to meet changes in seasonal demand by increasing the points needed daily in a season while lowering them by an equal amount in another season.

I would argue that the language is such that they not only "have the power" to do this, but that they are obligated to do this, and have been failing.

 

[Chuck S]

I would argue that the language is such that they not only "have the power" to do this, but that they are obligated to do this, and have been failing.

I actually think over the years they did pretty well with this overall. (With the exception of the charts they goofed up, got caught on, and had to re-do.) To be sure, the pandemic has jumped demand for every season as members try to use up their pandemic points, and foreign travel begins to be available again.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I actually think over the years they did pretty well with this overall. (With the exception of the charts they goofed up, got caught on, and had to re-do.) To be sure, the pandemic has jumped demand for every season as members try to use up their pandemic points, and foreign travel begins to be available again.

Fall is too cheap and summer is too expensive, pretty much across the board.

And depending on how you feel about their ability to balance demand across view categories, Standard view is too cheap and premium views too expensive, also pretty much across the board.

 

[wnielsen1]

Fall is too cheap and summer is too expensive, pretty much across the board.

And depending on how you feel about their ability to balance demand across view categories, Standard view is too cheap and premium views too expensive, also pretty much across the board.

Agree. While they are finally taking steps in the newest point charts, it has been long overdue and they shouldn't stop with the 2023 charts. I wonder what actually finally spurred them to action. Were they being threatened with a lawsuit? They kept setting the point charts based upon WDW (the entire resort) demand. It doesn't matter how busy WDW is, it only matters how busy DVC is.

 

[Chuck S]

As we don't have access to the data they are using to determine the demand for rooms, we can not say it is wrong. It is pure speculation.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

As we don't have access to the data they are using to determine the demand for rooms, we can not say it is wrong. It is pure speculation.

We know things like "BWV 1BR Standard View is readily available at 7 months in July but requires walking at 11 months the first week of December."

And don't get me started on AKV. Regardless of price season, they need to dramatically increase the points cost of Value and Club rooms.

 

[Chuck S]

We know things like "BWV 1BR Standard View is readily available at 7 months in July but requires walking at 11 months the first week of December."

And don't get me started on AKV. Regardless of price season, they need to dramatically increase the points cost of Value and Club rooms.

The number of value and club rooms is so limited, I doubt jumping the point cost will make a big difference in availability, unless the raise the value rooms to the same price as regular rooms.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

...unless the raise the value rooms to the same price as regular rooms...

I think that's exactly what they should do. Set Value to one point per night cheaper than Standard, but you have a 40% chance of getting a "free" Savanna view and see how many people want to roll the dice.