No Longer Affordable JMHO

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You are looking at this as an individual, whereas Disney is looking at this as a corporation. Your goals are diametrically opposed.

Your perfect day at the park would be completely empty, whereas Disney's perfect day at the park would be at capacity.

Again, it doesn't matter to Disney if a given individual goes elsewhere for food, or doesn't buy a souvenir. For Disney, it's the big picture. If the restaurants are at or near capacity at a given price, then that price is justified. The food quality doesn't matter one iota, as long as there are enough butts in seats.

You as an individual of course are free to go elsewhere, but as long as enough people put their butts in those seats and pull out their wallets to pay what Disney is asking, your arguements will fall on deaf ears.

You quote me but I don't think you quite understand my point.

As I have said, I believe WDW does a good job with their food offerings, and that there are many affordable options.

If you look at the paragraph you quote, you will see I said that, while I don't think the prices have become outrageous across the board, there are some things I won't pay for. But evidently other people will. So they will still get "butts in the seat" as you put it.

But I think they are working up to the point will more and more people will start thinking "you know, it's really not worth $80 (or whatever it becomes) for lunch and a reserved section to see Fantamic!". Who knows? Maybe there will be actual reserved seats at Fantasmic no matter when you arrive, like a Valle game? How much would you pay for that and dinner?
 
subjec
Good point...maybe their way of handling it is to ignore some feedback, since they are in charge of determining whether it's a legitimate concern or not. The restaurants are in a bit of a different situation though, as guests speak to managers right away, so they have to determine the legitimacy of a complaint right then and there, which is much different than us writing our complaints to the corporate office or online feedback.
Remember, though, that the in-the-moment, "I'm dissatisfied by this," comment is actually two things: It is a prompt to make that customer happy at that moment, and a prompt to address what caused the customer to be unhappy. Disney CMs always look (and should look) for an expedient way to accomplish the former. We're talking about the latter - Disney factoring in complaints into their decisions about how they do things. That's where complaints are generally not useful because there are far better ways to gather the information and understanding necessary to make the right decisions in that regard.

Yup, I totally agree about reporting problems since it may ultimately come out of our dues, but there also needs to be some responsibility on the part of maintenance and housekeeping.
If you think the balance that DVC has struck in that regard is not correct then we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

It is surely not an absolute: It is a decision, a balance to be struck with no specific point being the only logical balance, and indeed every point on the scale is valid, in the DVC context. It's just a matter of choosing one based on what's best overall, and then setting our fees based on how much achieving that costs.

We've seen some yucky stuff left in our villas, and wondered how that got missed, as it was in plain sight? So, it seems as if DVC is passing some of that responsibility from their shoulders to ours, as they more than likely can't keep up with the repairs, etc.
That only makes sense if you believe that your preference with regard to where to strike the balance is the only valid determination. That's not true.

I think a lot of that disconnect comes from the fact that we're often not aware of just how much certain things cost. My boss recently asked me to do something. I told him, "Okay, that'll take six years (given the current allocation of resources)." He was flabbergasted. Don't get me wrong - he's a smart guy, and knows the business, but we've kept him insulated from some of the more complex portions of the infrastructure, so he didn't realize that something he wants might cost more than what he would think - that essentially it is too expensive for his tastes, and therefore he'd really rather we not do that. And it works both ways. There are myriad directions that we foresaw in our original design, and so we often encounter situations where the boss says, "It would be really nice if we could shake free a few months to do XXXX," to which I reply, "Let me just flip the switch and turn XXXX on."

The point is that unless you have a full and comprehensive understanding of just what it would take to accomplish something, including all the costs and within the context of all the limitations you can't really say anything is absolutely worthwhile. There are no sacred cows. Everything is an open question.

At this point, I have confused myself. :rotfl2: It's been a very long day, in which I spent most of it with a splitting headache dealing with two kids who didn't want to get along, and mountains of laundry. The DIS was supposed to be some quiet time for me, but this discussion has hurt my head. :headache:
Best to stick with threads created by Monkey Boy (or perhaps, now, low-key) when in that condition.

The bottom line is that Disney food is affordable for some, and not for others.
Agreed, and that really crystallizes the situation: The dependencies are on the guest, i.e., the guest's ability to afford - not on Disney, i.e., Disney's pricing.
 
But as it is a gradual increase in menu prices, and gradual increases in DDP prices, it will be a slow attrition of people backing off on Disney dining.
Given how some of the complaints we've seen in this very thread mention how difficult it is to get ADRs, what you're implying is a sign of degradation would be received as an improvement by some. The reality is that load is never a reasonable way of measuring success in business. I'd rather have 1/10th as many customers each paying 10x as much.
 
Remember, though, that the in-the-moment, "I'm dissatisfied by this," comment is actually two things: It is a prompt to make that customer happy at that moment, and a prompt to address what caused the customer to be unhappy. Disney CMs always look (and should look) for an expedient way to accomplish the former. We're talking about the latter - Disney factoring in complaints into their decisions about how they do things. That's where complaints are generally not useful because there are far better ways to gather the information and understanding necessary to make the right decisions in that regard.

You really firmly believe that Disney does not use complaints or concerns at all in making decisions? If all of a sudden 10 million guests complained that the DP credit system was too hard to use, you don't think they would take those complaints and then maybe start a survey or investigation into whether this was true or not? If you've worked in customer feedback, you know that you need to look for patterns and track those patterns, so if the same complaints or concerns keep coming up, then that is vital info for the company. It shows a pattern that is consistent with many different users of that product, and it usually means that the complaint or concern is very valid at that point. Of course, it would depend on what area we are talking about - I think if many people complained that dining prices were too high, Disney wouldn't use these complaints since, as you pointed out, the restaurants are full, and ADRs are difficult to make.

If you think the balance that DVC has struck in that regard is not correct then we'll have to agree to disagree about that.

It is surely not an absolute: It is a decision, a balance to be struck with no specific point being the only logical balance, and indeed every point on the scale is valid, in the DVC context. It's just a matter of choosing one based on what's best overall, and then setting our fees based on how much achieving that costs.

I think we absolutely need a balance for DVC - I totally agree with you. But, I don't think it should be a 50/50 balance. In speaking with some MS people and resort people, they have the attitude that guests are very messy, and so...deal with it. And that is my point. We have to have a balance, but I don't feel it's right to put more responsibility on the guest in this respect. Guests may miss a spill, or forget to report that the shower head isn't working, as they are busy packing up or perhaps the kids did it without them knowing, and therefore, housekeeping and maintenance must assume more responsibility in this respect, especially since health and safety standards are at issue. I don't want to derail the thread, so we can leave it at that.

That only makes sense if you believe that your preference with regard to where to strike the balance is the only valid determination. That's not true.

I think a lot of that disconnect comes from the fact that we're often not aware of just how much certain things cost. My boss recently asked me to do something. I told him, "Okay, that'll take six years (given the current allocation of resources)." He was flabbergasted. Don't get me wrong - he's a smart guy, and knows the business, but we've kept him insulated from some of the more complex portions of the infrastructure, so he didn't realize that something he wants might cost more than what he would think - that essentially it is too expensive for his tastes, and therefore he'd really rather we not do that. And it works both ways. There are myriad directions that we foresaw in our original design, and so we often encounter situations where the boss says, "It would be really nice if we could shake free a few months to do XXXX," to which I reply, "Let me just flip the switch and turn XXXX on."

The point is that unless you have a full and comprehensive understanding of just what it would take to accomplish something, including all the costs and within the context of all the limitations you can't really say anything is absolutely worthwhile. There are no sacred cows. Everything is an open question.

Yup, I can only imagine how much it costs to clean and cook, but that still doesn't mean that I should go into a villa and find used food and garbage that a basic cleaning would have picked up since it was stacked on the counter or in the middle of the floor. Again, don't want to derail the thread, as it's not about DVC.


Best to stick with threads created by Monkey Boy (or perhaps, now, low-key) when in that condition.

:rotfl2: No, thanks!


Agreed, and that really crystallizes the situation: The dependencies are on the guest, i.e., the guest's ability to afford - not on Disney, i.e., Disney's pricing

:thumbsup2 Tiger
 


You really firmly believe that Disney does not use complaints or concerns at all in making decisions?
Huh? Where did you get that? You can't throw words like "at all" into things and expect them to mean the same things.

Disney uses better - more accurate and more reliable - normalized means of gathering input into their decisions about how to offer their offerings. Only an idiot would use less reliable information when they have more reliable information at their disposal. Disney doesn't employ idiots.

If all of a sudden 10 million guests complained that the DP credit system was too hard to use, you don't think they would take those complaints and then maybe start a survey or investigation into whether this was true or not?
Two things: First, if that many guests were complaining, then the surveys would show that concern. If they suddenly receive lots of unsolicited emails about something and zero concerns expressed about that something from the corresponding survey questions that they ask about that something, then a reasonable person's instinct would be that some irate and perhaps unstable customer is trying to "stuff the ballot box". You don't suddenly distrust your trustworthy metrics because your untrustworthy metrics are going crazy.

Second, they had better be using all manner of feedback, including unsolicited complaints, as ideas for what to survey about. That is not making a decision about how to operate (which is what we were talking about). That's merely determining what to do some more research on. Big difference.

If you've worked in customer feedback, you know that you need to look for patterns and track those patterns, so if the same complaints or concerns keep coming up, then that is vital info for the company.
Yup, but if you've worked in customer feedback, you also know that unsolicited input is notoriously unreliable, and should generally not trump reliable customer input that says the opposite of what the unsolicited input says.

Of course, it would depend on what area we are talking about - I think if many people complained that dining prices were too high, Disney wouldn't use these complaints since, as you pointed out, the restaurants are full, and ADRs are difficult to make.
This is a very good point: For some things - many things really - the most reliable source of customer input is money. In the consumer marketplace, people speak with the most credibility when they "put their money where their mouth is". Complaints about prices, specifically, are almost always best validated against actual revenue trends.

I think we absolutely need a balance for DVC - I totally agree with you. But, I don't think it should be a 50/50 balance. In speaking with some MS people and resort people, they have the attitude that guests are very messy, and so...deal with it.
They are supposed to be representing our preferences in their regard. I agree with them, so they're representing my preferences. The only conclusion I can draw from all this is that DVC members generally are more resistant, like I am, to paying higher dues, than we are to encountering some of the situations you seem to be concerned about more highly than I am.

And that is my point. We have to have a balance, but I don't feel it's right to put more responsibility on the guest in this respect.
Not guests: Owners. That's the point.
 
Sadly, I don't think that my humor will be as warmly received here as it was in another thread that turned into a discussion among 3-4 posters, so I'll save my quip. ;)

This discussion has become something that can easily be handled in private messages between a few posters, so we're going to close this thread now and let interested parties communicate via our PM system. :goodvibes
 
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