Nasty School Letter

[Becky2005]

Does this stike anyone else as sad? Did any of us grow up in that kind of school enviroment?

Yes it does. Thankfully, there still are some school districts that aren't *that* strict on it. I know ours is one of them. They definitely discourage it but they have a procedure to follow if you are going to take your child out for vacation and this is all the way through High School. I know you can't make up tests/labs per se.

So far, they have never asked for doctor's notes for any abscense either yet but I still get one from the orthodontist and the orthopedic (my DD has some appointments in the city & basically those are all day appointments -- she has no choice but to be miss.) I do think as of right now DD has missed about 5 days with all these appointments, I don't know for sure because the school's computer system was messed up so they couldn't report how many days of abscenses on the report cards last time. It basically said 0 for everyone.

 

[Tallent]

I don't really think it's sad at all. There's just a consequence to an action. No one is marking vacation absences against the students in my county, though I'm sure there are only so many unexcused absences you can have---kids are just not able to vacation and earn school credit at the same time, that's all. Besides, if you're truly on vacation you're probably not going to be in the mindset of working. Personally, as a teacher, I'm glad I don't have to go through and pack up a weeks worth of work for anyone going away. It's material that hasn't been taught and depending on your grade level that can be major. This is just my own experience but it was a pretty typical scenario that when I did take time and pack up work (when we could) parents either did it for the child or it was scribbled the night before. Why bother? NOW, having said all that my dd is starting Kindergarten in August and we'll be pulling her out for 3 days in Dec for a Disney trip. Will she have unexcused absences? Yes. Will she have schoolwork to do? No. Will she keep a writing/picture journal so she can share it with her class (voluntarily)? Yes. Will we have a great time? YES!!

 

[F4disneyfan]

Who do these school districts think they are?

I'd be willing to go to court to tell these schools what they can do with their policies.

It's all about the money...not the kids. And it's ludicrous considering you can homeschool your kids, and the state doesn't care if they EVER come to school.

I agree it is crazy I feel bad for you guys in the US that have to deal with this. Up here our schools have no quams about the kids missing 2 weeks a year for our Disney holidays. Our funding is based on the number of students enrolled and in attendance for the first week of Sept from what I have heard and that is it after that no problem at all. If I was in that situation I would pray teh school board would take me to court as I would blast the hell out of them in fromt of the judge and whoever else is there in attendance for trying to dictate to me what is best etc for MY child I think it has gotten way to over the line with what you have to deal with in the States for this. Our teachers and school that our kids attend has always been great we tell them at teh begining of the school year we will be on holidays the first couple weeks of Dec and then send a note with the kids a couple weeks before we are to leave. We ask if the teachers would like the kids to do any work while they are away but do not expect the teachers to supply work for them. Our kids do most of the work an the drive to Disney and get about 75% of it done during that time when the teachers actually want them to do anything most times it is just a request for them to take lots of pics and write about the trip and what they saw and were able to do then they present it to the class.

As someone else said I didn't have any issues while I was in school either hell I was out of school for 6 months in grade 6 travelling around the Northern US playing hockey they sent a tutor with us but can you imagine the issues trying to work with 24 kids on school work in hotel meeting rooms it just didn't happen. So our school work per se was done by us visiting museums and aquariums and things like that. We traveled from Minnesota all across the majour cities that all had hockey programs so we got to see Chicago Detroit St Louis Pittsburgh Philly Buffalo Long Island New Jersey NYC Boston Hartford and every other majour city along the way even DC and all teh places with NHL teams we were given tickets by the host team to attend an NHL game with them it was a great trip.

 

[BizziBee]

I feel bad for you guys in the US that have to deal with this

I agree with this! I am Thanking God that I live in Canada and if I had to go through ANY of this type of BS I would just homeschool. My sister Homeschooled my niece until the 4th grade then put her into the school system. I can honestly say it was the WORST decision that my sister did. My niece decided that she wanted to be homeschooled again after 2 year in school being board and NOT learning anything.

 

[dcherry]

I guess I'm in the minority. I don't think it's wise to take children out of school for vacations in general. A day or two perhaps if it's unavoidable but not beyond that. It's hard enough as it is to get them through all the requirements without missing school.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

It probably depends a lot on the child, too. My kids are grown now (my youngest is in his third year of university), but I frequently took them out of school for things like vacations, visits from out-of-town family, mental health days, etc. I remember one of my children's teachers commenting that my son had the worst attendance record in the whole class - but he also had the highest grades, so he wasn't complaining.

I think there is value in taking kids out of school for vacations or even just for a break. I think it helps them learn that their mental health is important. In North America, a large percentage of adults don't take the vacation days they are entitled to. That's so even though we get many fewer vacation days than employees in most European countries. The result: many people experiencing depression, burn-out, relationship problems, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc. I'm hoping the lesson my children will have learned is that while education and work are important, they are not the be-all and end-all of life, and that taking a vacation or a break can be very beneficial.

Teresa

 

[beth_cam]

I've been thinking a lot about this. I don't like pulling my kids out willy nilly. I am pulling them out for the last two days before christmas break (mon and tue) but I also know that not much will happen on those days. I also know that the teachers themselves have often been absent on those days. But I really get that there needs to be one set of rules that helps protect those that don't have the home environment that helps. And you can't make a set of rules for one group but let others do whatever they want.

However...
I cant even count the number of days my dd's 2nd grade teacher has been absent or has had to have a sub in for atleast half the day. I understand things like my son's K5 teacher who missed the first 2 months of school due to a boating accident or getting the flu adding up lots of teacher missed days. But at both the school they are at now and the award winning school they were at before we moved, the teachers were chronically 'away' for atleast part of the day. Now I understand that they use up their vacation/sick time and maybe even move into their actual pay but I really feel that both of my kids' education has been suffering due to this, and it effects the entire class. However if we are going to be on vacation I have to bend over backwards to make it work out since it will be unexcused and I could get in trouble for it. The teachers dont have to give make-up work etc. Even if it is that the kids are sick, some dr's wont give excuses without seeing the child. And I'm not taking my kid to the dr in the middle of flu season to catch it from the waiting room because she had a fever and had to miss school since per the school rules you have to be fever free for 24hrs or you can't come to school with a rash the dr hasn't said is okay. Or the dr refuses to give anything but a note that says it's okay to attend school with hand foot mouth but the school refuses to allow the child in. Meaning the school will say your child is too sick to be at school by looking at the child but won't excuse it unless I spend 60 bucks and risk the germy waiting room with my child. Yet every week my dd's 2nd grade teacher is out for atleast part of the day atleast one day. Often it is more than that. I haven't even bothered to keep up with my son's teachers absences since his class seems more of a holding pen than an educational room.

 

[tigger813]

In our school system teachers are not allowed to take a personal day before a long weekend or holiday vacation without prior approval and proof of necessity (for example, being in a wedding or a family emergency). We only get 2 personal days a year!

I will be advising my child's 2nd grade teacher in Sept. of the fact that she will be out from Dec 2-6. Two of these days are parent teacher conferences so I don't feel as guilty. I realize it will be my responsibility to assist my child in making up any work she missed.

 

[Minnie_me]

However... I cant even count the number of days my dd's 2nd grade teacher has been absent or has had to have a sub in for atleast half the day. I understand things like my son's K5 teacher who missed the first 2 months of school due to a boating accident or getting the flu adding up lots of teacher missed days. But at both the school they are at now and the award winning school they were at before we moved, the teachers were chronically 'away' for atleast part of the day. Now I understand that they use up their vacation/sick time and maybe even move into their actual pay but I really feel that both of my kids' education has been suffering due to this, and it effects the entire class. However if we are going to be on vacation I have to bend over backwards to make it work out since it will be unexcused and I could get in trouble for it. The teachers dont have to give make-up work etc.

Yet every week my dd's 2nd grade teacher is out for at least part of the day at least one day. Often it is more than that. I haven't even bothered to ke ep up with my son's teachers absences since his class seems more of a holding pen than an educational room.

Okay, I have a big issue with your post. You seem to be forgetting the purpose of SCHOOL - - it's for the kids. They are required to be there in order to receive an education. If the teacher is out, she is REQUIRED to leave plans for a substitute. And the day continues as it would if the regular teacher were there, but with a different TEACHER filling the role. It's not just babysitting.

Teachers in my district get 10 sick days and 3 personal days a year. If I have to stay home with one of my daughters, that comes out of my sick days. And I'm at school at 5:30 a.m. writing sub plans. - if I didn't, I'd be fired! It's not like teachers are running off to DISNEY all the time! We're not allowed to use any of our days for vacation; we are required to take vacations during the school vacation time. If your child's teacher is out, I'm sure there's a reason. I HIGHLY doubt that she's out at least once a week, as you suggest. That would be over FORTY days - - and you don't know why??

Teachers also have meetings that they're required to attend during the school day. Various mandatory trainings, inservices, special education meetings, etc.

You just can't compare student absences to teacher absences. The schools are accountable for student achievement, which can't happen if the kids aren't in school! Even if the teacher isn't in the classroom, she is still responsible for planning the program.

 

[F4disneyfan]

Okay, I have a big issue with your post. You seem to be forgetting the purpose of SCHOOL - - it's for the kids. They are required to be there in order to receive an education. If the teacher is out, she is REQUIRED to leave plans for a substitute. And the day continues as it would if the regular teacher were there, but with a different TEACHER filling the role. It's not just babysitting.

Teachers in my district get 10 sick days and 3 personal days a year. If I have to stay home with one of my daughters, that comes out of my sick days. And I'm at school at 5:30 a.m. writing sub plans. - if I didn't, I'd be fired! It's not like teachers are running off to DISNEY all the time! We're not allowed to use any of our days for vacation; we are required to take vacations during the school vacation time. If your child's teacher is out, I'm sure there's a reason. I HIGHLY doubt that she's out at least once a week, as you suggest. That would be over FORTY days - - and you don't know why??

Teachers also have meetings that they're required to attend during the school day. Various mandatory trainings, inservices, special education meetings, etc.

You just can't compare student absences to teacher absences. The schools are accountable for student achievement, which can't happen if the kids aren't in school! Even if the teacher isn't in the classroom, she is still responsible for planning the program.

I found nothing wrong with the post at all commenting on how the Teachers are out of the class for extended periods of time now I will give you the fact that there was no mention if there was a sub to fill in but other than that it is all valid from a parents point of view.

It sounds much like the teachers in Ontario that went on strike FOR THE GOOD OF THE CHILDREN ya if it truly was for the good of the children then they would have been in the classrooms teaching the kids not schlepping the main street corners trying to drum up support for their cause. I had a friend who is a teacher that lives in the Toronto area now and when she found out about teh strike she sent letters to her students homes to let the parents know they could bring the kids over and she would teach them there as she didn't agree with the strike she was pretty much black balled from the union. So to be honest if a teacher or school ever said they had a problem with me taking my kids away on holidays to Disney I would tell them to go the H E double hockeysticks.

 

[Becky2005]

However...
I cant even count the number of days my dd's 2nd grade teacher has been absent or has had to have a sub in for atleast half the day.

I just want to add, just because there is a sub in the classroom, doesn't mean the teacher is actually OUT of the school everytime.

My 2 older sons have IEP's (Individual Education Plans) -- the meetings happen during the school day, their teachers are at the IEP meetings, so while they are at those meetings there are subs in their classrooms. The teachers have to stay at the meeting the entire time even once they are done giving their report, if they leave early, it would make it an illegal meeting & the parent could request it to stop immediately and re-convene everyone on another day.

I know our meetings last at least an hour, I've been to a couple that were well over that depending on the situation. I'm not always the only meeting scheduled on a day either (usually not), they tend to do them all around the same time.

Just an FYI

 

[beth_cam]

No, she is out atleast one afternoon a week. and no they aren't continuing on as if she had been there but with someone else in her place. 2x week before last the kids got split up and sent into other 2nd grade class rooms which overcrowded those rooms and completely disrupted their day meaning also they missed out on some of their special areas for the week. My dd had music 3 x that week missing pe and library. They have had tests scheduled that they didnt take because the teacher wasn't there (now that one I dont get since if it was a scheduled written test how hard is it for the sub to pass it out). They have yet to review their research projects because of the afore mentioned reallocations of students getting them all off as well as other missed days then the teacher being out in the last hour for 'conferences' (I have no clue who fills in, sometimes it is one of the resource teachers but this happens very very often) so anyway 3 weeks ago the turned in research projects and have not discussed them nor received them back. Several times I have asked my dd about an assignemnt that they had the night before and didn't discuss in class because they had a sub and they just had extra recess instead and they never did go over it again.

My sons k5 class is barely under control when the regular teacher is there. when the sub is there it is utter chaos. I was in there once to help with an ice cream social between them and the neighboring class. the neighboring class was all orderly and did what they were supposed to, in the 30 min i was there the other classes teacher came to yell at my sons class 3 times because they were completely out of control. They had played almost all day since they had a sub and then in the afternoon with the extra ice cream sugar in them, they were put back outside to burn off the energy.

Things weren't much differen't at the kids school where they started this school year. When they had subs it was a day of busy work and extra recess, the day was never just moving on with the days regular plans. The teachers there were out frequently but not as bad as here.

I know and meant to imply that the teachers weren't just away for the heck of it but that between the sick days, the meetings, the conferences, the vacations (k, 1st, and 2nd my dd's teachers have missed the last few days before christmas and sometimes spring break as well as some other days before long weekends) and the fact that the subs that are brought in are not teaching but rather babysitting the whole amount the teacher is out of the room is affecting my dd's and the entire classes education much more so than me taking my dd out for a few days.

 

[lookingforward]

Schools are in a difficult position when it comes to student absences. I used to be a grade school guidance counselor and believe me, we know who the responsible parents are and who is not. For instance, a responsible parent is one who makes sure their child gets sleep, is well fed, does his or her homework, goes to the doctor when sick, etc. etc. This same responsible parent also plans great vacations and may take their child to WDW for a vacation. That lucky child may miss a few days of school but the RESPONSIBLE parent makes sure the school knows and the child keeps ups with the work that is missed.

Now we can review the irresponsible parent. This parent puts their child to sleep late, sends him or her in to school dirty, forgets to pack school lunches and snacks, never reviews their homework, forgets to show up for conferences, etc. This parent might not be planning any great vacations for their child. However, the child misses school for a few days because the parent neglects the child or the parent sleeps late and is just too lazy to drive the child in to school.

The responsible parent's child misses six days of school and the irresponsible parent's child misses six days of school. We all KNOW who is doing right by their child BUT on paper each child is the same. TRUANT...out without a valid excuse. This is what administrators must report to state and local officials. This is what generates those nasty grams from district headquaters. Believe me, the school does not compare Parent A with Parent B, but the computer does.

It is frustrating and not an accurate picture, but that is what happens.

Personally, I don't think missing school is such a terrible thing as long as the parent manages it in a responsible way. Life is a mosaic of memories and experiences....the responsible parent's child is the lucky one. They won't remember that they missed a week in the third grade but they will remember the joy of spending a week watching fireworks with their parents arms around them, how they were brave enough to try space mountain, and how they learned about the living sea at Epcot.