Little update on friend with Medicaid issues

[cabanafrau]

They ultimately were. But there was a brief period where that was in question. I just know Medicaid has very hard and fast rules that you need an expert to navigate.

The qualification process is indeed a minefield. I was merely making the point that the picture is a bit different when one spouse is still healthy and capable of independent living in their own home.

 

[piccolopat]

Why do people do things like this? Why does she think the government (that's you and me folks) should pay, but they should not?

The current system may be the law but it can be very unfair. I'll give you an example. My MIL and FIL were frugal and saved all of their lives. When MIL (a widow) needed nursing home care, she had to draw down on her assets before she would qualify for Medicaid. Her BIL & SIL (roughly same income over the years) routinely spent all of their money on trips, restaurants, etc. and saved almost nothing. When SIL needed nursing home care, she qualified for Medicaid immediately. In this example, the government is punishing someone who was financially responsible and saved while rewarding someone who was not and spent everything the had.

 

[ronandannette]

The current system may be the law but it can be very unfair. I'll give you an example. My MIL and FIL were frugal and saved all of their lives. When MIL (a widow) needed nursing home care, she had to draw down on her assets before she would qualify for Medicaid. Her BIL & SIL (roughly same income over the years) routinely spent all of their money on trips, restaurants, etc. and saved almost nothing. When SIL needed nursing home care, she qualified for Medicaid immediately. In this example, the government is punishing someone who was financially responsible and saved while rewarding someone who was not and spent everything the had.

Everything you said is correct - it’s a terrible system. Yet it also strikes me that coping with a serious or terminal health matter in old-age is something one is saving money for, no? It’s different here with public health-care and I can only imagine how difficult this becomes for some but really, whatever the law is, the OP’s friend should be conforming to it. Not doing so is an even greater insult to people like your parents.

 

[mnrose]

The current system may be the law but it can be very unfair. I'll give you an example. My MIL and FIL were frugal and saved all of their lives. When MIL (a widow) needed nursing home care, she had to draw down on her assets before she would qualify for Medicaid. Her BIL & SIL (roughly same income over the years) routinely spent all of their money on trips, restaurants, etc. and saved almost nothing. When SIL needed nursing home care, she qualified for Medicaid immediately. In this example, the government is punishing someone who was financially responsible and saved while rewarding someone who was not and spent everything the had.

I get that, and it's frustrating, but I will also say that in general, if you are able to self pay for your end of life care, you are getting a better quality of care than the Medicaid patient. My father, for example, was first in a very nice assisted living facility (beautiful, looked like a luxury hotel), and then was able to get a single room in a nursing home. Being in control of my destiny is better than not.

 

[robinb]

Everything you said is correct - it’s a terrible system. Yet it also strikes me that coping with a serious or terminal health matter in old-age is something one is saving money for, no?

I would say that *most* people in the US don't save for end of life health care. Heck, 58% of Americans don't even have $1000 in savings.

 

[mjkacmom]

I get that, and it's frustrating, but I will also say that in general, if you are able to self pay for your end of life care, you are getting a better quality of care than the Medicaid patient. My father, for example, was first in a very nice assisted living facility (beautiful, looked like a luxury hotel), and then was able to get a single room in a nursing home. Being in control of my destiny is better than not.

However, you need to save a lot. If you figure $100,000 for a nursing home, it’s easy to go through savings. My dad was going into assisted living when he only had $300,000 left (the minimum needed to get into a decent place) because he lived at home with a caregiver ($1000 a week under the table) for almost 4 years after my mom died). SS and his partial pension didn’t even pay for his healthcare/property taxes/household expenses/food. He passed away, had a heart attack, which was almost a blessing, because at that point the only thing he wanted was to stay in his house (Alzheimer’s for 15 years). He would’ve been miserable, angry, hurt, and confused.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I get that, and it's frustrating, but I will also say that in general, if you are able to self pay for your end of life care, you are getting a better quality of care than the Medicaid patient. My father, for example, was first in a very nice assisted living facility (beautiful, looked like a luxury hotel), and then was able to get a single room in a nursing home. Being in control of my destiny is better than not.

Also, a lot of self-pay places will let you stay on, even after your money has run out. So, you continue to enjoy the quality of care when you'r eon Medicaid. If you start out poor, you have to go to whatever facility will take you as a Medicaid patient from Day One. While some of these are decent facilities, the indigent patient has little choice.

 

[ronandannette]

I would say that *most* people in the US don't save for end of life health care. Heck, 58% of Americans don't even have $1000 in savings.

Understood, but amongst those that have provided for their retirement/old age, is it totally out-to-lunch that they would factor heath-related expenses in?

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Sorry OP, but I think a good friend would stop sharing their friend's questionable actions on the internet. We don't need to know any of this. I realize you came here looking for advice, but that ship has long since sailed. All additional info shared here can only hurt your friend. If that isn't your intention, you should leave it alone. Once it's out there, it can never be taken back.

FWIW, I'm not the friend.

 

[robinb]

Understood, but amongst those that have provided for their retirement/old age, is it totally out-to-lunch that they would factor heath-related expenses in?

Sure, some do. But even planning for those expenses can be astronomical. My DH and I started considering purchasing long term health care insurance (we are in our 50’s) earlier this year. The insurance buy in is over $100,000. Even that insurance would have a limit of how many days in a facility it would pay for. Our financial advisor told us not to worry about it until we were closer to 60 when rates start to go up.

 

[starry_solo]

Moral of this story: Save for unexpected health care expenses or get stuck in a nursing home that takes Medicaid patients.

 

[Southernmiss]

Moral of this story: Save for unexpected health care expenses or get stuck in a nursing home that takes Medicaid patients.

Can also be 'and still get stuck in a nursing home that takes Medicaid patients. '

Costs are astronomical and increasing every year.

 

[starry_solo]

Can also be 'and still get stuck in a nursing home that takes Medicaid patients. '

Costs are astronomical and increasing every year.

Yes they can. I'm already making plans for when I'm old. I'll be having a nurse/doctor come in if I need it. No nursing home for me

 

[ronandannette]

Yes they can. I'm already making plans for when I'm old. I'll be having a nurse/doctor come in if I need it. No nursing home for me

This kind of thinking is more along the lines of what I’d expect from people who genuinely do have the means. If I understand it correctly, the OP’s friend is trying to hide assets just so her DH will qualify for one of those “horrible” Medicaid facilities for free.

 

[starry_solo]

This kind of thinking is more along the lines of what I’d expect from people who genuinely do have the means. If I understand it correctly, the OP’s friend is trying to hide assets just so her DH will qualify for one of those “horrible” Medicaid facilities for free.

Assets are there to be spent on what you (the person who built up the assets) need in your life, whether it is health care, housing, etc.

 

[mjkacmom]

Assets are there to be spent on what you (the person who built up the assets) need in your life, whether it is health care, housing, etc.

But not everyone can save millions to stay out of a Medicaid nursing home. Even private pay facilities have the right to move you to another facility if they run out of Medicaid beds and you can no longer private pay.

 

[starry_solo]

But not everyone can save millions to stay out of a Medicaid nursing home. Even private pay facilities have the right to move you to another facility if they run out of Medicaid beds and you can no longer private pay.

Yes but one should spend what one has instead of trying to commit fraud like the OPS friend is doing.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Yes they can. I'm already making plans for when I'm old. I'll be having a nurse/doctor come in if I need it. No nursing home for me

I hope that works out for you. My DH's grandmother had enough money saved to pay for around the clock medical care, but my MIL put her in a nursing home anyway. The person in the bed next to her was there via medicaid. Her substantial savings was almost completely wiped up, even though she was getting the exact same treatment that everyone else received.

ETA: There were no private nursing homes in the town MIL took DH's grandmother to.

 

[mjkacmom]

Yes but one should spend what one has instead of trying to commit fraud like the OPS friend is doing.

I never said I approved of the fraud, and this woman will get caught as soon as they do the look back and see the money being withdrawn. I’m surprised the elder attorney suggested this, the one we hired told me to account for every dime of my dad’s money I spend because if he needed Medicaid eventually, they would be going over his accounts with a fine tooth comb.

I can still sympathize with those who feel so helpless, some do everything right that they can and still up in a bad situation.

 

[mjkacmom]

I hope that works out for you. My DH's grandmother had enough money saved to pay for around the clock medical care, but my MIL put her in a nursing home anyway. The person in the bed next to her was there via medicaid. Her substantial savings was almost completely wiped up, even though she was getting the exact same treatment that everyone else received.

ETA: There were no private nursing homes in the town MIL took DH's grandmother to.

But around the clock medical care can cost more than a home. However, you can enter a nicer home with private pay and stay on after Medicaid kicks in. If you spend it all on home care and run out, you have to enter the home on Medicaid and end up in a much worse home.