Leverage: anyone considering SSR purchase:

[ColoradoBelle1]

There is a growing concern that Disney isn't willing to guarantee certain health related requests or normal /usual room configuration requests at the time of booking ...and instead lumps these requests in with the more mundane requsts for view or location. Perhaps the best leverage to get Disney to rethink it's 'all requests are the same and are noted but not guaranteed' policy could come from prospective owners as opposed to old DVC members.

It would help if those of us newbies talking with our guides re buying into DVC would ask these questions:
1.Can you assure me that my request for a nonsmoking room will be guaranteed at the time of booking? Alternatively, since I would hate to break any rules of occupancy, can you assure me that if I require a smoking room , that you can accommodate this request at the time of booking?

2. Can you assure me that my room will have, among other things, a toilet and a tub in it? (Asked this way to imply that if it is shown as 'included' on the Disney advertised room layout, that one can assume that it is included in the room provided and that there is no need to REQUEST certain things like a toilet or tub in our reservation.

3. I undertand that there is a 'room change' fee incurred if we decide to change rooms during our stay. However, can you assure me that if we are assigned a room that doesn't meet health, cleanliness, or maintenance expectations...that any such charge will be waived?

It would be interesting to see what the answers are to these questions.
And it is a good way to let Disney know that some of its policies might need updating to address health or specific NEEDS concerns when chosing where to stay.

(I have no problem with preferences like view or location to pool or elevator to be noted as requests only....but I am concerned about people being assigned rooms that do not meet stated room layout configurations or rooms that do not meet health concerns. )

Just a thought!
colorado belle

 

[Chuck S]

Or rather than asking such flippant questions, they could actually read and understand the contracts and rules before they finalize the purchase. Why should their lack of understanding translate into a problem for other owners?

#1: Since Disney regular Disney resort do not "guarantee" smoking/non-smoking at time of booking...how can DVC?

And #2: I've yet to see a room without a toilet . The ADA rooms are required by law, and are included in the the overall point configuration for that resort. Since Disney isn't going to eat the costs of building and maintaining those rooms if they go unused, then the only other alternative would be to raise everyone costs and not "sell" points in those units, but spread the cost to everyone through common area fees and increases purchase fees. DVC is a timeshare not a hotel "owned" by Disney.


Especially #3: cleanliness expections obviously vary greatly from guest to guest. By reading some reports on these boards a person could surmise that a minor scratch or dent in a table could justify a room change.

 

[brittsmum1998]

With DVC being so popular and the fact that they don't put any pressure on you, I can't see that making much of a differance. The next family coming in may not be so picky.

 

[CarolMN]

With all due request, I doubt anyone who asked these questions, got the "wrong" answer and said they wouldn't buy because of it would change anything. SSR continues to sell very well and there is a steady demand for the sold out resorts as well.

I don't see a trend of anyone selling their DVC contracts because of these issues, either. You aren't planning on it, are you? I suppose there may be a few who will or have, but again, there seem to be lines of people willing to buy any contract that comes on the market - even those stripped of points.

As I've posted elsewhere, I'd like to see DVC guarantee non-smoking/smoking and give request priority to reservations made before the 7 month window opens. As far as the change fee, I believe it is actually waived more often than not.

Best wishes -

 

[eileenfk]

Or rather than asking such flippant questions, they could actually read and understand the contracts and rules before they finalize the purchase. Why should their lack of understanding translate into a problem for other owners?

#1: Since Disney regular Disney resort do not "guarantee" smoking/non-smoking at time of booking...how can DVC?

And #2: I've yet to see a room without a toilet . The ADA rooms are required by law, and are included in the the overall point configuration for that resort. Since Disney isn't going to eat the costs of building and maintaining those rooms if they go unused, then the only other alternative would be to raise everyone costs and not "sell" points in those units, but spread the cost to everyone through common area fees and increases purchase fees. DVC is a timeshare not a hotel "owned" by Disney.


Especially #3: cleanliness expections obviously vary greatly from guest to guest. By reading some reports on these boards a person could surmise that a minor scratch or dent in a table could justify a room change.

I think the questions proposed are really good questions.

People have decided not to buy because of these things.
People do decide to not stay on Disney property because of these things.
I delayed my puchase for over 2 years due to the smoking/non smoking thing, and then was finally told that due to medical reason they would grant the non-smoking (yet I still failed to get it put in my contract, since I bought used).
Disney has lost my business due to the smoking/non smoking thing (mostly in California so far).
This is a DVC problem AND it is a Disney owned hotel problem.
The technology is available, it is not difficult nor is it expensive to know the specifics of a room when making the reservation.

If it was not o.k. to ask questions, just because they were answered somewhere in all the paperwork and documentation, then there would be no need to ask questions at all.

- Eileen

 

[JimMIA]

Of all the people on this board, I am probably the LEAST likely one to plunge into one of these senseless smoker/non-smoker debates. But, having said that, I have a little problem differentiating who is being flippant here.

Sure, there are a lot of silly complaints and a lot of unreasonable expectations -- "...if this is my HOME, it should be precisely like my home at home," and so on.

I stayed at POR French Quarter a few weeks ago, and you know what? There were corn chips under the edge of the bed. Not one, but a bunch --and I don't mean to be completely stupid here, but decomposing food is a health hazard. They had obviously been missed because the lazy housekeeping person vaccumed only the traffic areas. Did we complain? Of course not. We threw the cornchips out. And we would highly recommend the French Quarter to anyone wanting to stay in a Moderate Disney resort. It was wonderful!

On the other hand, there are legitimate health issues and legitimate basic plumbing expectations in any public lodging facility.

Personally, I am an ex-smoker (many years ago), but not a crusader. I prefer a non-smoking room, but if I have to endure the putrid smell of death, that is only a brief inconvenience for me. If it's really bad, I'll pay the $25 to switch rooms. Or open all the windows for a couple of hours. It ain't that hard...provided you are not allergic or asthmatic.

However, I have not one, but three, friends who have asthmatic children. For them, a non-smoking room is not a nicety -- it's a necessity. I have another friend who is severely allergic to both nuts and smoke (I'm not sure what to make of that!). Put her around either one and she breaks out in a rash, her throat closes up and she starts gagging, and her husband starts searching frantically for her epi-pen. Those are legitimate health issues, and they're not uncommon.

For me, the lack of counter space in an HA room is a minor inconvenience. I'll just add my toiletries to the other clutter in the room and it will be no big deal. I personally prefer a shower anyway, so the lack of a tub is not something I'll lose sleep over.

But there are people who have legitimate health considerations which make a tub a legitimate need for them. [I'm not talking about people with sore bum-bums who want to soak at the end of a tiring day; I'm talking about real needs.] There are people who legitimately need a tub.

[Incidentally, I travel a LOT for business, and I don't think I've ever been in a hotel room (or a condo, or an apartment) which didn't have a tub. Almost all of the tubs I see are handicapped accessible, but in the 100 or so nights I spent in hotels last year, I don't think I saw a single room without a tub. That ain't Disney following the law; that's just cheap. What they really should do is what every other hospitality company has done -- convert all of the rooms to handicap-accessible tubs and toilets. That would be a lot better for everybody, and it would be a negligible one-time expense.]

So -- in short -- I think both sides of this debate have valid points. Some people (and Colorado Belle is NOT among them, BTW) have unreasonable expectations. But there are also legitimate issues here which Disney should address, and simply raising the issue is not being flippant.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

Chuck: Webster defines 'flippant' as: being of smooth , fluent and easy speech. So thank you!, but I'm not sure what smooth and easy has to do with my concerns.
In your response to #1. You said that since Disney doesn't guarantee 'requests' in its hotel resort properties, that it can't do anything different in its DVC unit management. Since I've been told that these two are seperate entities, then the point you are trying to argue, must be, by definition moot. (and you seem to allude to this very thing in your point#2..."DVC is a timeshare and not a hotel".
**Disney can and does change its reservations system and offerings all the time. Hence, standard and preferred view rooms at BWV now being offered as preferred view: EITHER pool/garden OR Boardwalk view. Disney accommodates changes that are good for the resort financially, liability and image wise. I think that is a smart thing.

#2. Altho you don't exactly state what you mean by 'creating problems for other owners' I am assuming that you might mean that IF DIsney makes some changes, that it could result in your paying higher maintenance fees. And I might further assume that you are unwilling to pay a potential increase in maintenance fees caused by ...your example...leaving handicapped rooms lie empty. WHile I understand and empathize with your concern re higher maintenance fees, I don't believe that guaranteeing a smoke or smoke free or room with a tub at the time of reservation would cause rooms to go empty. In fact, I believe it would result in HIGHER occupancy and less complaints and more compliance with the rules. WINWINWIN for everyone.
(I realize the law intervenes with respect to handicapped room...perhaps Disney must hold these rooms open til the last minutem in which case it is possible that that room could go empty. But isn't it more likely that the room could be offered as 'we do have a handicapped smoking studio, chuck, with a lovely boardwalk view....would you be willing to take that?' and you would be happy to take it and I would be happy to decline. I have read NOTHING in the literature that states that I MUST be willing to take a handicap room , although you seem to believe otherwise...Perhaps you could point that section out to me?)
3. You are absolutely right about cleanliness BUT I was referring to reasonable expectations of same....a dent isn't a 'reasonable' complaint and I doubt it is ever used as an excuse. But I think you know that. ...If anyone has posted here that they felt justified in asking for a room change because of a dent in a table, I would love you to point that post out to me please.

Brittsmum: You make an excellent point. If Disney can sell their resorts by offering less, why should they offer more? I am happy if the next family likes what they are offered and wants to buy in whether or not they have a guaranteed 'toilet and tub' in the room or not At the same time, that doesn't effect whether or not I make my needs and expectations known to Disney to see if they also want my business. And if they say, for example: no we will not assure you of that, then I am certainly free, without any pressure on Disney's part, to choose not to buy into DVC. An example is that I don't need financing to buy into DVC, but I think it is fine that Disney offers financing to those who do need it. Disney may at some point decide that offering financing isn't in their best interest (at 10% how could it not be !!!) at which point I imagine they could chose to discontinue that offer. However, if they want more people buying into DVC, they will offer incentives for both cash or financing to attract more customers.

Carol...I agree with you that there is still plenty of demand. But I believe that Disney WANTS to hear what we like and don't like about their offerings..whether it is the new Stich ride or what colors makes us feel more happy. Imagineers spend lots of time and money trying to figure out these very things...so letting Disney know what I would find attractive about a DVC purchase is ...desirable marketing information. What Disney does with the info, depends on the numbers/cost effectiveness .

Eileen: thank you for your affirming of my questions. I believe there are many more people than Chuck thinks who would be thrilled to have a guarantee of smoking/nonsmoking and even tub/shower requests. Perhaps CHuck's fear of questioning the Disney parent is motivated by a drastic increase in maintenance fees should the ressie system be changed. I agree with you that the ressie system could be changed without any increase in fees, should the demand warrant it. And I don't think that questioning policy 'angers' the Disney parent, tho it seems to anger some people here on the disboard! LOL.

 

[wide awake]

I have a call in for my guide, and I intend to ask Colorado Belle's questions. I don't think it would cost anything extra if reservations guaranteed non HA/non-smoking at the 11 month window. If I made my reservations after that, I would be happy to take my chances. Both non HA and non-smoking are huge issues to me...my son is autistic and HAS to have a bath, and I can't stand the smell of smoke. If we had to stay in a smoking room I would have to wash all our clothes and air out my purse and suitcases...not how I want to spend my time on vacation. Yes, I would love a nice view, but that is not something I will request. If the room isn't clean I'll call for clean bedspreads or pay for any extra cleaning...but I WILL NOT STAY IN A HA OR SMOKING ROOM...and no, I don't think the physically handicapped are inferior...I'm dealing with another type of handicap, don't feel like doubling the issue.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I think some sort of reference to these issues should be addressed to the guides. While the issues do not bother me one way or the other too much I think they are extremely fair points that should be addressed

 

[Chuck S]

Now, in order to "guarantee" that someone gets a non-smoking room...and folks here seem to want a 100% guarantee...that would entail saying we have (for example) 100 non-smoking rooms, and guest A is assigned to room 1 and guest B to room 2, and so on until those 100 rooms are used up. Remember, you want a 100% non-smoking guarantee.

Now suppose non-smoking room #28 goes out of service for a problem. All the other non-smoking rooms are pre-assigned. What happens? Do you get a room at the Grand Floridian at the expense of other DVC owners? Should DVC have some extra unreserved inventory "on-hand" at all times, also at the expense of other DVC owners? Should they "bump" someone else, to give you the room they "guaranteed"?

If you also happened to be guaranteed a non-HA room, but a non-smoking HA room happened to be available, would you settle for it, or expect compensation, or simply raise a stink at the front desk until you got what you think you are "entitled" to?

BTW, I don't know what dictionary you used, but the Webster site says:

Main Entry: flip·pant
Pronunciation: 'fli-p&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: probably from 1flip
1 archaic : GLIB, TALKATIVE
2 : lacking proper respect or seriousness
- flip·pant·ly adverb


Now, to the person that said they don't visit DisneyLAND because of a non-smoking guarantee...Disney has a 100% non-smoking resort at Disneyland..so that is mute.

 

[wide awake]

Chuck S, why do you have such a problem with non HA, non-smoking ? Very few people are going to need both...I seriously doubt that 100 people would make reservations at the 11 month mark and get the guarantee...I would, because both issues are a big deal to me, but others wouldn't. So what is the problem ? I live in California, I will call at 5 am 11 months before my check-out date to ensure a room my family can use...I don't see where this is being unreasonable to MS, DVC, or other members. I'm willing to take extra trouble for something valuable to me...those DVC that reserve later can be # 100 or whatever on the list, and guests at the 7 month window can take their chances. To me that is the advantage of buying points where you want to stay. By the way, following this logic...I've already put myself out of the running for a room for my birthday week...but I'm willing to wait for next year, for a room my family can use and enjoy.

 

[Chuck S]

Again, the problem is a 100% guarantee of requests that folks seem to want and expect at a resort that runs at nearly full capacity. No one has said what should be the alternative if a room goes out of service for a problem, what compensation would be adequate, and who would pay for that compensation. Knowing that Disney surely won't pay for it.

Very few people are going to need both...I seriously doubt that 100 people would make reservations at the 11 month mark and get the guarantee...

You must be kidding? These boards are filled with folks saying their child can't have a smoking room, and because they have a child they must be guaranteed a tub.

 

[tjkraz]

I have a call in for my guide...

Don't mean to pick on you, wide awake, but your Guide can tell you that DVC members will soon get free trips to the moon, but that don't make it so. Guides are salespeople. End of story.

The only thing that matters is the text of the Public Offering Statement and here is what the POS has to say regarding unit requests:

"Special Vacation Home requests, such as ground level Vacation Homes, cannot be guaranteed, but will be noted as a preference in the reservation record."

The POS does not, nor has it ever said anything about bookings at 11 months getting priority, priority for medical reasons, priority for S/NS over view, etc. The only obligation on DVC's part is....well, they have none. And we all knew that (or had the ability to discover that) before we signed on the dotted line. Ignorance is not a valid defense.

If people want to write DVC management to try and incite change, go for it. Just remember that the forum rules prohibit using the disboards as a medium for organizing such a campaign.

 

[mark&sue]

Why is this such an issue. I have travelled all over the world and if I have booked a non-smoking room I get it. I wouldn't even request a bath tub as any decent hotel/villa or appartment would have one. I was sold into DVC by being told that the rooms were superior. I signed there and then on the spot after seeing the model at SSR and thought how much nicer it was than where I was staying at the Grand Floridian. I have since found these boards and read that I am "naughty" because I expect to have a bath tub. This whole matter has spoilt my pleasure of being a DVC owner. I have not even had my first trip yet.

The non smoking isssue won't matter in a few years time as everywhere will be non-smoking.

I don't care what view I get or how far I have to walk but two weeks without a tub to me would be like a camping holiday and I can do that at a fraction of the cost and no annual dues.

Susan

 

[wide awake]

Chuck S, don't think you're getting it...when we cruise DCL I call for scuba excursions for DH, there are about 20 spots, because I make the effort to call at 5 am my time my DH gets his excursion. I don't really care how many people WANT a tub...how many are willing to make the effort to ENSURE one ? Even if I am #60, I doubt 40 rooms are going to be out of service.

As for the guide being able to say whatever...yes, they are salespeople...but I am VERY CYNICAL...I'm always on the lookout for copout words. With all the posts on these issues, I can't imagine that there haven't been meetings and rules on how to reply.

For those of you that don't mind smoking or HA rooms...maybe DVC could make a point of cleaning those rooms first...since you're not picky you get a reward. For my family, we won't even ASK for our room before 4 pm.

Again, I don't understand the animosity on this forum. I'm willing to go WAY out of my way, be placed in my room last, etc...for the type of room I want.

 

[JimMIA]

What spoils my pleasure even more is that apparently DISboards policy is that they don't care one bit that Wideawake's son is autistic and has special needs. Obviously ChuckS makes a big point out of speaking for DISboards, so I have to assume his representation accurately speaks for the organization. I take some consolation in the fact that I don't think Disney or DVC would agree.

Belle and others are NOT saying your beloved Emperor has no clothes, Chuckie. They are just saying that his fly is open, and it would be really cool for everybody if he would fix that. He has every right in the world, under the POS, and the US Constitution, the laws of the GREAT State of Florida (where I was born, live and dearly love) not to do so. But a sensible Emperor would at least listen to his lowly subjects, even if they are so much lower than thou.

 

[wide awake]

Thank-you JimMIA...

 

[Mike]

BTW, I don't know what dictionary you used, but the Webster site says:

Main Entry: flip·pant
Pronunciation: 'fli-p&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: probably from 1flip
1 archaic : GLIB, TALKATIVE
2 : lacking proper respect or seriousness
- flip·pant·ly adverb


Now, to the person that said they don't visit DisneyLAND because of a non-smoking guarantee...Disney has a 100% non-smoking resort at Disneyland..so that is mute.

The Webster site says:

Main Entry: 1mute
Pronunciation: 'myüt
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): mut·er; mut·est
Etymology: alteration of Middle English muet, from Middle French, from Old French mu, from Latin mutus, probably from mu, representation of a muttered sound
1 : unable to speak : DUMB
2 : characterized by absence of speech: as a : felt or experienced but not expressed <touched her hand in mute sympathy> b : refusing to plead directly or stand trial <the prisoner stands mute>
3 : remaining silent, undiscovered, or unrecognized
4 a : contributing nothing to the pronunciation of a word <the b in plumb is mute> b : contributing to the pronunciation of a word but not representing the nucleus of a syllable <the e in mate is mute>


And is also says:

Main Entry: 3moot
Function: adjective
1 a : open to question : DEBATABLE b : subjected to discussion : DISPUTED
2 : deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic


Sorry - couldn't resist

 

[lenshanem]

With all due request, I doubt anyone who asked these questions, got the "wrong" answer and said they wouldn't buy because of it would change anything. SSR continues to sell very well and there is a steady demand for the sold out resorts as well.

I don't see a trend of anyone selling their DVC contracts because of these issues, either. You aren't planning on it, are you? I suppose there may be a few who will or have, but again, there seem to be lines of people willing to buy any contract that comes on the market - even those stripped of points.

Actually, if we get smoking rooms and studios with no tubs continually, we will sell. I'm not going to put my daughter at risk and I want a tub during my vacation to bath my girls. I'm not apologizing for wanting those requests either and like I said before I really resent any attitudes for wanting such requests. These are both very reasonable. If my daughter can't even go outside like tonight and ride her bike without needing her inhaler, why would I put her in a smoking room for a week?!?

These concerns actually have me worried about our spring break trip. And that really stinks. I'm not referring DVC to anyone else either until this matter gets addressed with a positive solution.

I probably need to quit reading these threads cause it is making me feel very negative and actually angry.

 

[iankh]

I've been following this thread, and I want to make sure I understand the discussion correctly.

1. The complaint is that on check in, a request for a room type (non-smoking, smoking, HA, non-HA) is not honored.
2. There is a strong requirement to be able to book and be guaranteed a specific room type.
3. The requirement is that room types would be on a first come, first serve basis.
4. If a room type were "sold out" the member have choices to:
   1. Book one of the remaining available room types and waitlist their prefered room type.
   2. Try and book the same room type at another DVC resort at that resorts points level (this stands to reason since if a property is 100% booked, alternate resorts are booked at those resort point levels, so a room type not being available would stand to follow the same logic).
   3. Book at an alternate resort for their room type and waitlist at their desired room type at their desired resort.
   4. Find out when their desired room type is available for their length of stay and change their travel plans accordingly.

Am I correct in my understanding?