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Just back from Northern AZ -- any questions?

JimMIA

There's more to life than mice...
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
We just got back from a 2 week trip to northern AZ, staying at Sedona, Flagstaff, Monument Valley, Grand Canyon, and back at Sedona again. In addition to all of the above, we visited Antelope Canyon (which is spectacular!) and most of the national parks/monuments in the area.

If we can answer any questions on this area, ask away!
 
Could you tell me a bit more about your itinerary? we will do 9 nights in the area next June. so far we will do first nite in sedona, next 2 nights in Page, 4 nites in GC because we will hike down to Phantom Ranch for one nite, then 2 nites in sedona. did you do any tours? we are thinking Pink jeep tour in sedona, maybe helicopter at GC, Rainbow bridge boat trip in Page (also Antelope Canyon and see Horseshoe bend) so much to see around there, can't fit it all in!
any hotels or restaurant reviews? we have our GC reserv booked and two nights in a sedona bed and breakfast.
 
Sure, but our itinerary was not what I originally intended due to three unexpected changes.

The three unexpected events were 1) an 8-hour flight delay caused by bad weather at Dallas (we were within 100 miles of DFW, and on time, when we were diverted to Austin and the nightmare began); 2) a decision/stroke of luck to leave Grand Canyon a day early to spend extra time in Sedona; and 3) having to return home 14 hours early because of an American Airlines schedule change that moved our afternoon flight to 1 AM, with no available options. So we actually missed most of a day on both ends of our trip due to flight difficulties.

Long story short, we spent two nights in Sedona (but that is a little misleading because we arrived at Midnight the first night due to a weather delay in Dallas) ...three nights in Flagstaff ...one night at the View Hotel in Monument Valley ...two nights at Maswik Lodge inside Grand Canyon (because I waited too long to book and couldn't get anything else...but Maswik was fine.) ...and then three nights back at Sedona.

In both Sedona and Flagstaff, we stayed at the Wyndham timeshare resorts (we own Wyndham) in two-bedroom villas.

Sedona
We did not do any tours in Sedona. We spent most of the time there sightseeing, taking short walks that I wouldn't even call a "hike" to various local places my wife had researched...and shopping.

We also spent a considerable amount of time just relaxing at the Wyndham Sedona resort itself, recovering from the rest of our adventures.

Although we didn't take any tours, if you're going to do the Bright Angel Trail hike to the bottom of the Canyon, I think you will also love the backcountry experience of a Sedona jeep tour. The Pink Jeep company seems to be by far the largest. We saw them everywhere, including Grand Canyon. But there are numerous other jeep and helicopter and hot-air balloon tours.

Our excursions in Sedona (both stays combined) were as follows:
  • Montezuma Castle National Monument via 89A and S. Page Springs Road for sightseeing. Montezuma Castle is a pueblo cliff dwelling site managed by the National Park Service. The return trip to Sedona was via I-17 and then AZ 179, coming into the heart of Sedona's red rock country from the south. Major stops were Courthouse Rock/Bell Rock and the Chapel of the Holy Cross (do NOT miss either stop).
  • Slide Rock State Park -- a few miles north of Uptown Sedona in Oak Creek Canyon. +/- 1/2 mile walk to a rocky section of Oak Creek where you can slide down, busting your butt on the rocks, while enjoying the freezing water. Big fun. (It actually was fun, but go EARLY because the place gets packed even during the week.)
  • "Buddha Beach" at Red Rock State Park -- Off 89A west of Sedona. +/- 1 mile walk from the Crescent Moon Picnic Area to Buddha Beach -- which, of course, is just past the, um..."vortex." Yeah. This is a place you go to pile small rocks on top of each other to make "buddhas." Truly fascinating...zzzzzzzzzz. But pretty setting, AND you walk right through the "vortex."
  • Tlaquepaque, common pronunciation -- actually pronounced Ta-LOCK-a-pock-ee. Just south of Uptown Sedona -- renowned artisan/crafts village. If you like things Southwestern (my wife does), this place is like a Mecca...not to be confused with a Buddha or a vortex. Seriously wonderful art, jewelry, crafts, etc. My wife could spend days (and fortunes) here. I got off with only one afternoon and a small fortune.
Sedona food -- many, many choices -- including things like McD's, Burger King, KFC -- but you will have to REALLY look for the chain fast food places because they're all in Sedona camo! We didn't do the fast-food places; these were the places we really liked:
  • The Barking Frog -- as our Miami neighbor Dave Barry would say, "I am NOT making this up!" That's the name of three things: a restaurant in Sedona, an actual frog native to the Southwest, and another related actual frog -- the Eastern Barking Frog. On 89A, west of Sedona. Cool place, great food, moderately priced, great service, very cool teeshirts!
  • The Coffee Pot -- a breakfast place, oddly enough. Breakfast all day, but they close at 2 PM. 101 different omelets ("Please order by number")...and I am NOT making this up! Great straightforward American breakfast food, reasonable prices, friendly, down-home folks. Great way to start the day.
  • Indian Gardens Cafe - north of Sedona in Oak Creek Canyon, on the way to Slide Rock. American food for eat-in or take-out. Really good, reasonable, charming, very nice staff, nice setting. And for reasons known only to a lifeform in tune with a vortex, only a few yards from a VERY nice jewelry store...AND only about 200 yards from a Dairy Queen in the middle of nowhere. Good food, beautiful setting, jewelry, DQ...welcome to Sedona!
  • Oak Creek Brewery -- at Tlaquepaque, actually the first business you will see there. Typical brewhouse -- very good food, excellent service, good atmosphere, etc. The main difference is their craft beer does NOT taste like recycled motor oil. They even have a "Beer Flight," which is seven 5-ounce servings of seven different beers.
    • "It's about the same amount as two beers," our waitress cheerfully advised.
    • Hmm...7 X 5 oz =35 oz. That's two 12 ounce beers + ELEVEN oz more...no?
    • Can you imagine having "only two flights" and then trying to pronounce "Tlaquepaque" for the nice police officer?
You will love Sedona!
 
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Flagstaff
Flagstaff was our base for exploring a vast area in north-central Arizona -- which is kinda unfair to Flagstaff itself, which is a really cool town with a lot to offer.

But we were there as tourists going on excursions.
  • Sunset Crater National Monument & and Wupatki NM -- 1/2 hour north of Flagstaff on US 89. Sunset Crater NM is a large, inactive volcanic crater. Pass through there and you come to Wupatki NM. Wupatki is a very nice desert pueblo culture ruin that you can actually walk into. Also, from Wupatki you have a very nice view of the Painted Desert to the east. If you like desert landscapes, this is a really pretty place.
  • Walnut Canyon NM -- another National Park Service pueblo site, located just east of Flagstaff, off I-40. Easy to get to, and very pretty canyon. If you don't mind a hike, some nice cliff-dwelling ruins that you can see from across the canyon. Quick, short, easy trip from Flagstaff -- literally minutes from Wyndham Flagstaff.
  • Antelope Canyon/Lake Powell -- Lake Powell is there. Antelope Canyon deserves its own thread! First of all, there are two Antelope Canyons -- Upper Antelope Canyon, toured by boat and a waste of time; and Lower Antelope Canyon...OMG!!!!!
  • Lower Antelope Canyon is a "slot" canyon -- barely wide enough for a human to climb into, and accessible only by stairs in and out. In some places, the slot is so narrow you have to turn sideways to get through.
    • To give you an idea, I am not one of those people who photograph/video their lives. In two weeks, I took maybe 200 pictures with my cell phone. Didn't even take a camera with me. 87 of those pictures were taken in a one hour, fifteen minute tour of Lower Antelope Canyon...and every one of those are National Geographic worthy! Check Google Images. The pictures that you think are taken by professional photographers with exotic cameras and filters...are not. They are cell phone pix! This place is breathtaking.
    • I love Grand Canyon; I love Sedona; I love Monument Valley. But Lower Antelope Canyon is the stuff!
Flagstaff food -- I'm told that Flagstaff has some very good dining. We were not there to eat, and in fact were mostly there at the end of the day recuperating from our journeys. The only actual restaurant we visited was the Flagstaff Outback, and it was very good.
 


Sure, but our itinerary was not what I originally intended due to three unexpected changes.

The three unexpected events were 1) an 8-hour flight delay caused by bad weather at Dallas (we were within 100 miles of DFW, and on time, when we were diverted to Austin and the nightmare began); 2) a decision/stroke of luck to leave Grand Canyon a day early to spend extra time in Sedona; and 3) having to return home 14 hours early because of an American Airlines schedule change that moved our afternoon flight to 1 AM, with no available options. So we actually missed most of a day on both ends of our trip due to flight difficulties.

Long story short, we spent two nights in Sedona (but that is a little misleading because we arrived at Midnight the first night due to a weather delay in Dallas) ...three nights in Flagstaff ...one night at the View Hotel in Monument Valley ...two nights at Maswik Lodge inside Grand Canyon (because I waited too long to book and couldn't get anything else...but Maswik was fine.) ...and then three nights back at Sedona.


Wow glad you managed to have a good time despite such major travel snafus

In both Sedona and Flagstaff, we stayed at the Wyndham timeshare resorts (we own Wyndham) in two-bedroom villas.

Sedona
We did not do any tours in Sedona. We spent most of the time there sightseeing, taking short walks that I wouldn't even call a "hike" to various local places my wife had researched...and shopping.

I am really looking forward to the shopping! I am expecting lots of jewelry pottery, rugs,, blankets, leather and not sure what else

We also spent a considerable amount of time just relaxing at the Wyndham Sedona resort itself, recovering from the rest of our adventures.

I think our last 2 days in Sedona we will be relaxing after the GC adventure but would like to try the pink jeep. We've heard such good things about it.

Although we didn't take any tours, if you're going to do the Bright Angel Trail hike to the bottom of the Canyon, I think you will also love the backcountry experience of a Sedona jeep tour. The Pink Jeep company seems to be by far the largest. We saw them everywhere, including Grand Canyon. But there are numerous other jeep and helicopter and hot-air balloon tours.

Our excursions in Sedona (both stays combined) were as follows:
  • Montezuma Castle National Monument via 89A and S. Page Springs Road for sightseeing. Montezuma Castle is a pueblo cliff dwelling site managed by the National Park Service. The return trip to Sedona was via I-17 and then AZ 179, coming into the heart of Sedona's red rock country from the south. Major stops were Courthouse Rock/Bell Rock and the Chapel of the Holy Cross (do NOT miss either stop).
  • Slide Rock State Park -- a few miles north of Uptown Sedona in Oak Creek Canyon. +/- 1/2 mile walk to a rocky section of Oak Creek where you can slide down, busting your butt on the rocks, while enjoying the freezing water. Big fun. (It actually was fun, but go EARLY because the place gets packed even during the week.)
  • "Buddha Beach" at Red Rock State Park -- Off 89A west of Sedona. +/- 1 mile walk from the Crescent Moon Picnic Area to Buddha Beach -- which, of course, is just past the, um..."vortex." Yeah. This is a place you go to pile small rocks on top of each other to make "buddhas." Truly fascinating...zzzzzzzzzz. But pretty setting, AND you walk right through the "vortex."
  • Tlaquepaque, common pronunciation -- actually pronounced Ta-LOCK-a-pock-ee. Just south of Uptown Sedona -- renowned artisan/crafts village. If you like things Southwestern (my wife does), this place is like a Mecca...not to be confused with a Buddha or a vortex. Seriously wonderful art, jewelry, crafts, etc. My wife could spend days (and fortunes) here. I got off with only one afternoon and a small fortune.
I am hoping to do all of this though I hadn't decided about the Castle. We were thinking of sunset crater and wupatki instead. Did you do them when you were in flagstaff?

Sedona food -- many, many choices -- including things like McD's, Burger King, KFC -- but you will have to REALLY look for the chain fast food places because they're all in Sedona camo! We didn't do the fast-food places; these were the places we really liked:
  • The Barking Frog -- as our Miami neighbor Dave Barry would say, "I am NOT making this up!" That's the name of three things: a restaurant in Sedona, an actual frog native to the Southwest, and another related actual frog -- the Eastern Barking Frog. On 89A, west of Sedona. Cool place, great food, moderately priced, great service, very cool teeshirts!
  • The Coffee Pot -- a breakfast place, oddly enough. Breakfast all day, but they close at 2 PM. 101 different omelets ("Please order by number")...and I am NOT making this up! Great straightforward American breakfast food, reasonable prices, friendly, down-home folks. Great way to start the day.
  • Indian Gardens Cafe - north of Sedona in Oak Creek Canyon, on the way to Slide Rock. American food for eat-in or take-out. Really good, reasonable, charming, very nice staff, nice setting. And for reasons known only to a lifeform in tune with a vortex, only a few yards from a VERY nice jewelry store...AND only about 200 yards from a Dairy Queen in the middle of nowhere. Good food, beautiful setting, jewelry, DQ...welcome to Sedona!
  • Oak Creek Brewery -- at Tlaquepaque, actually the first business you will see there. Typical brewhouse -- very good food, excellent service, good atmosphere, etc. The main difference is their craft beer does NOT taste like recycled motor oil. They even have a "Beer Flight," which is seven 5-ounce servings of seven different beers.
    • "It's about the same amount as two beers," our waitress cheerfully advised.
    • Hmm...7 X 5 oz =35 oz. That's two 12 ounce beers + ELEVEN oz more...no?
    • Can you imagine having "only two flights" and then trying to pronounce "Tlaquepaque" for the nice police officer?
Haha. Have to tell my husband about that one!

You will love Sedona!
 
Monument Valley -- in north central AZ, about 2 1/2 hours north of Flagstaff. This is a Navajo Nation Park, like Antelope Canyon, and it is an amazing place.

Remember all those car commercials with the racy car and the amazing red rock landscape? Shot in Monument Valley. Again, check Google Images.

Monument Valley is managed by the Navajo Nation and is unburdened by nonsensical politically-correct symbolism and restrictions. They still allow visitors to drive their own cars along the 17 mile dirt road through the valley. It's a truly beautiful trip, and compared to what we saw 25 years ago, I don't see any negative impact from the millions of visitors who have made that drive over the decades. It's quite likely that the people who have lived here for a thousand years understand the system better than those who have bachelors degrees in native cultures or art history, but have only lived here three months. Ancient tradition and centuries of understanding are far better than "Ranger lore!"

We stayed one night at The View Hotel in Monument Valley. It is right on the rim of the valley and offers spectacular views, especially at sunset and sunrise. Just for the record, it's the only hotel around. And it's a really nice hotel...if not cheap.

There is only one restaurant -- oddly called "The View" -- and it was quite good. Solid, if unexciting, food -- although a little pricey...but then, it's not exactly located in midtown Manhattan.

Monument Valley is well worth a stop, and a stay. Don't miss it.
 
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Guess we posted at the same time

I really want to see the monuments in flag staff too. We will definitely do Antelope canyon in page. Also we will see hope to see horseshoe bend and take a boat trip to rainbow bridge

I thought planning Disney trips was complicated til I started this one. I have 5 pages of notes typed up for a trip that's a year away!
 


To Grand Canyon...Girlie's way!

From Monument Valley to Grand Canyon is only about two hours...maybe a little more.

But wait! Girlie (13) wants to go to Four Corners. Really. Okay -- Mommy has been indulged, Daddy has indulged himself...so it's only right that we indulge Girlie. So we do. Off to Four Corners, a little more than an hour East of Kayenta, which is where you turn off to go to Monument Valley.

But...on the way to Four Corners...there are two attractions we have been advised to see. One is actual dinosaur tracks in the desert in a nondescript place in the Navajo Nation, and the other is Navajo National Monument -- a National Park Service site featuring the largest cliff-dwelling ruins in the world/nation/state/neighborhood.

As luck would have it, the dinosaur tracks place turns out to be a little before I expect it, and I blow right past it. We go to Navajo National Monument, and guess what? THEY have fossilized dinosaur tracks! WooHoo!

Nice place, wonderful staff -- one of whom is a lovely Navajo woman, and actually might know something about their culture -- and nice hike.

And then, on to Four Corners. Another Navajo Nation Park, another $8 per person.

Typical Navajo place -- actual, real surveying marker where you can stand with your feet in FOUR states (UT, CO, NM, AZ). Surrounded by Navajo trinket purveyors -- who actually have stuff worth buying! OK place, nice teeshirt with Navajo saying which probably means "Tourists will buy ANYthing."

And on to Grand Canyon!
 
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We will definitely do Antelope canyon in page.
LOWER Antelope Canyon -- trust me. Walking tour -- NOT boat tour --

We used Ken's Tours - Regular tour 1 hour, 15 minutes, $28; Serious photographer tour (SLR camera and tripod required), 2 hours, $50. Both tours are serious bargains.
I thought planning Disney trips was complicated til I started this one. I have 5 pages of notes typed up for a trip that's a year away!
Yeah...welcome to the real world! In the real, natural world, there's more there there.

The world is not just rides.
 
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Great report so far. Very funny too.

I am guessing the nondescript place that you missed was Tuba City?

Looking forward to your musings on the Grand Canyon

And the world is all one big ride ;)
 
I am guessing the nondescript place that you missed was Tuba City?
No, I think it's impossible to miss a huge metro area like Tuba City!

But I was expecting the dinosaur tracks place to be AFTER greater metropolitan Tuba City. Instead, it was before. No big loss, though.
 
Grand Canyon
First of all, a few basics about Grand Canyon:
  • Crowds -- be prepared for huge crowds of people everywhere you go. Like most national parks, visitors don't stray more than about 1/4 mile from the visitor centers, so everyone is concentrated in the key spots. The crowds are excessive to the point of being uncomfortable, and you will even have to stand in a long line to talk to an actual Ranger.
  • Bring Water - In a fit of politically-correct environmental fervor, NPS prohibited the sale of bottled water in 23 national parks a couple of years ago. You can buy bottled soda, juices, Margaritas, hard cider, beer, etc -- but water is apparently evil. Who knew?
    • (Not sure if this is part of the recently announced sponsorship agreement between NPS and Anheuser-Busch... :rolleyes1 Probably not.)
    • Actually, the stated reason is to reduce trash. I guess they figured out it was easier to ban their concessioners from selling water to ALL visitors, rather than enforcing their own regulations against the handful who litter our national treasures. Typical bureaucratic solution.
    • NPS has placed free water-bottle refill stations in numerous locations at Grand Canyon -- grocery stores, visitor centers, lodges, and a few trailheads. That's convenient for the casual tourist visitor (as long as they don't mind standing in line for a bit), but not much help for hikers and other adventurers. OP is apparently going to be hiking, so my advice would be to load up with a couple of cases of water before you go to the park.
  • Restricted Driving - Private vehicles are prohibited in the western part of the South Rim -- from the Village to Hermit's Rest. There is a free shuttle bus service which seems to work well, but plan for more time due to the buses. (We did not use the buses, so I can't give any personal observations.)
*****
So, what is there to say about the Grand Canyon? It's grand! Really -- very beautiful place.

Most visitors go from overlook to overlook to overlook and leave telling friends that it all looks the same. And to them, it does. A better strategy is to either do what OP is doing -- hike down into the canyon -- or pick one beautiful spot and just sit there in the afternoon watching the sun change the colors of the canyon walls below.

There is abundant wildlife, but we didn't see much (neither did we make any effort to see wildlife). We saw a fox, couple of ground squirrels, one mule deer doe, and a bunch of ravens. But elk, mule deer, mountain lions, California Condor, coyotes, and all sorts of other critters are commonly seen.

The park service recommends staying a good distance away from all wildlife, and they even have a chart with suggested distances that I can't find right now. Generally, tho, stay 75 feet (6 car lengths) away from big critters like deer and elk. Both deer and elk WILL charge humans (and cars) who disturb them, and those cute little deer injure more visitors in national parks each year than any other wild animal.

Mountain lions are one of the rare species who consider humans as part of their prey-base, and they kill a few people every year out west. If you see one, consider yourself very lucky but stay the heck away from it...preferably in your car.

The general rule with any wildlife is quite simple: if the animal changes its behavior in any way (stops grazing, for example, or looks up at you), you are TOO CLOSE.

All animals in national parks are WILD, and all of them have ways to either kill prey or defend themselves -- and they will use those tools. Harassing or feeding wildlife is harmful to them, dangerous for you and all other nearby humans, and illegal. And that is one law the rangers will gleefully enforce with a stiff fine.

Lodging
We stayed at Xanterra's Maswik Lodge inside the park. It's located away from the rim, but nearby, and was quite convenient. Our room was a typical national park lodge room -- two queen beds, private bath (not all GRCA lodge rooms have their own bathroom :sad1: ).

Like most national park lodges, Maswik Lodge is an older property, but the room was spacious enough, everything worked, and it was spotless. Also because of the somewhat remote location, our room was very quiet.

Dining
Maswik Lodge has a food court, and we ate one dinner and both breakfasts there. The food was widely varied, with lots of choices, reasonably priced, and better than expected -- actually quite good. The breakfasts, in particular, were very good.

We also ate dinner one night at the El Tovar hotel, GRCA's iconic lodge. My wife and daughter both had "Sustainable Salmon" (environmentally/politically-correct fish) and loved it.

I had a pork chop thing that was awful. Part of the fault was mine; I should have known better than to order it in the first place -- pork chops with sauerkraut (which I don't like) and apples, which turned out to be sour green apples. I almost never send food back, but if I hadn't made a dumb decision I would have sent this back. The pork chops were overcooked, dry, and tasted like cardboard with vinegar poured over it. Yuk! But, in all honesty, that was my bad -- I should have ordered something else.

The evening was capped off by a fire alarm and evacuation of the El Tovar just as we paid our check.

But despite all that, the El Tovar is a great place to eat. Also a great place to sit on the porch, enjoying a cocktail as sunset changes the colors of the canyon before your very eyes.

Hiking
OP, I assume you are all experienced hikers in very good physical condition if you're hiking down to Phantom Ranch...and back. Ranger wisdom: "Hiking down into the Canyon is optional; hiking out is mandatory."

If you are not all in great shape (or worse, used to be in great shape), you really should reconsider that hike. It is much too long for one day, very difficult with a more than 4,000 foot elevation change, widely varying temperatures, and exposure to dangerous weather and elements. While we were there, the temps on the South Rim (6,800 feet) were in the mid/high 70's. Temps at Phantom Ranch (about 2,400 feet) were 103-104. So, on the way back up, you will be making a very steep ascent in close to 100 degree heat, in the sun, in the wind.

There are lots of other options, including doing some of the upper part of Bright Angel Trail, hiking along the Rim Trail, or hiking away from the rim on one of the numerous backcountry trails.

Good, easy hike
There is one nice hike to a sorta-secret overlook with great views -- Shoshone Point. This trail is open to the public, but the park service doesn't promote it (no signs, trail and trailhead are not on maps) because they rent it out for special events like weddings, etc.

The unmarked trailhead is on Desert View Drive, a little east of the Yaki Point overlook, on the north (rim) side of the road. There is a small unpaved parking lot, a gate blocking a small dirt road, and a sign that says the facilities can't be used without a Special Use Permit. It's about a mile walk uphill on the dirt road from the parking area to the picnic area (with restrooms), and just a few hundred yards as far out on the point as you want to go. We saw one couple walking back on our way up, and there were two people there when we arrived at the picnic area. Great view, no crowds -- a real hidden treasure.

Weather
Summer is "Monsoon season" in northern AZ, with lots of huge thunderstorms and the potential for flash floods.

As far as Grand Canyon is concerned, that presents two drawbacks -- weather difficulties when driving or hiking, and haze. The canyon is so vast (10 miles across or more, as the Condor flies, in most places) that the haze really affects the views and pictures. Being from the lightning capital of the world (Florida), we're used to the hazards of thunderstorms, but not everyone is.

The climate issue for us was the low humidity. We found ourselves easily getting dehydrated, despite consuming 2-3 times the water we usually drink and being very aware of dehydration/heat-related issues. We were never "hot" at GRCA, but we were often thirsty and in need of lip balm.

Biking
We didn't bike this trip, but next time we will. At the main South Rim visitor center area, there is a concessioner who rents bicycles. They have literally hundreds of bikes of all descriptions, including kid trailers. We didn't see many people biking, but biking would be a fabulous way to get away from the crowds and really enjoy the place.

Favorite books in the Visitor Centers?
You're thinking something about the history or geology of the place...or something about nature's palette of colors dramatically displayed across the vast landscape...right?

Naw. The favorite book in all the bookstores is Over The Edge: Death in Grand Canyon !

And it is a book that is about precisely what you think -- people falling to their death in Grand Canyon. And...in any of the bookstores, you will also find 3-4 other books on the same topic. Dying is apparently a popular thing to do at Grand Canyon.

It's no secret why there is so much material for such books. You will see literally hundreds of visitors tempting fate -- and living to tell the tale -- during any visit to Grand Canyon.

Just like visitors trying to feed bears or get close to bison at Yellowstone, or petting alligators at Everglades, park visitors never disappoint!
 
Hiking
OP, I assume you are all experienced hikers in very good physical condition if you're hiking down to Phantom Ranch...and back. Ranger wisdom: "Hiking down into the Canyon is optional; hiking out is mandatory."

If you are not all in great shape (or worse, used to be in great shape), you really should reconsider that hike. It is much too long for one day, very difficult with a more than 4,000 foot elevation change, widely varying temperatures, and exposure to dangerous weather and elements. While we were there, the temps on the South Rim (6,800 feet) were in the mid/high 70's. Temps at Phantom Ranch (about 2,400 feet) were 103-104. So, on the way back up, you will be making a very steep ascent in close to 100 degree heat, in the sun, in the wind.

You have some very good points! We are preparing a LOT for this trip (but it is hard to find elevation and desert conditions in the Midwest!). Hiking as much as we can (we were in the Smokies last week, plan to go back over fall and spring breaks). We have day packs with 3 liter water bladders plus we will bring re-usable water bottles with electrolytes and salty snacks. They recommend drinking a liter of water per hour while you're in the canyon. We have trekking poles and good hiking boots, etc. We will hit the trailhead down at 5 am to get sunrise and escape the worst of the heat. Someone already died this summer in the canyon BUT he was trying to hike down and back up in one day - never recommended and it was during heat warnings. We will stay the nite at Phantom Ranch and come back up the next day. I will have no problem nixing this hike if we aren't feeling our best or there are 'heat warnings' like there have been the last few weeks. Our trip is early June so it will be hot.

There is one nice hike to a sorta-secret overlook with great views -- Shoshone Point. This trail is open to the public, but the park service doesn't promote it (no signs, trail and trailhead are not on maps) because they rent it out for special events like weddings, etc.

Cool, secret trail = no people.


The favorite book in all the bookstores is Over The Edge: Death in Grand Canyon !

I've heard of that book and there is an interactive website detailing every death since the 30's I believe. Sobered me up right quick even without reading the whole thing. The author sometimes posts on the Tripadvisor Grand Canyon forum which is a wealth of information also.

Glad to hear the food in the food court was good. I try not to expect much of National park food but we are looking forward to dinner at El Tovar.

Thanks Jim MIA for your very detailed trip report. I am really looking forward to this trip and your report makes it seem closer!
 
You have some very good points! We are preparing a LOT for this trip (but it is hard to find elevation and desert conditions in the Midwest!). Hiking as much as we can (we were in the Smokies last week, plan to go back over fall and spring breaks). We have day packs with 3 liter water bladders plus we will bring re-usable water bottles with electrolytes and salty snacks. They recommend drinking a liter of water per hour while you're in the canyon. We have trekking poles and good hiking boots, etc. We will hit the trailhead down at 5 am to get sunrise and escape the worst of the heat. Someone already died this summer in the canyon BUT he was trying to hike down and back up in one day - never recommended and it was during heat warnings. We will stay the nite at Phantom Ranch and come back up the next day. I will have no problem nixing this hike if we aren't feeling our best or there are 'heat warnings' like there have been the last few weeks. Our trip is early June so it will be hot.
Sounds like you have a good handle on the hike.

I'm glad to see your references to electrolytes and salty snacks. This year's EMS buzzword seems to be hyponatremia - which is an insufficient level of sodium in the body, caused by drinking too much water among other things including underlying medical conditions.

I don't like those formulas (X liters per hour, etc) because individuals' systems for processing water and nutrients are so variable. What might be fine for one person might be decidedly not good for another. I would sip early and often, hit both Gatorade and snacks early and often, and listen to your body.

If you do the longer hike, be sure to refuel continually because low blood glucose can also be very dangerous. At Everglades, a lot of the patients we see for heat/dehydration are actually hypoglycemic -- and you don't have to be diabetic to have severe sugar problems with strenuous exercise. Blood sugar levels move to problematic high levels slowly, but sugar drops very rapidly and low sugar can put you in deep trouble quickly. It wouldn't be a bad idea to carry some Goo or PowerGel -- or just plain old oral glucose tubes that you can get in any drugstore (+/- $10 for 3 25-gram tubes) -- in case someone gets lightheaded. PowerGel has 10 grams of sugar (27 g carbs total), 200 mg of sodium, and a little bit of potassium and caffeine.

You probably know this, but there are shorter options on Bright Angel Trail. There are resthouses at 1.5 miles and 3.0 miles. The hiking is rated "moderate" to the 1.5 mile point, and "difficult" from there to 3.0. There's a 1,120 foot elevation change to 1.5, and another 1,000 to 3.0. So if conditions aren't to your liking you could do part of Bright Angel.
 
Could you tell me a bit more about your itinerary? we will do 9 nights in the area next June. so far we will do first nite in sedona, next 2 nights in Page, 4 nites in GC because we will hike down to Phantom Ranch for one nite, then 2 nites in sedona. did you do any tours? we are thinking Pink jeep tour in sedona, maybe helicopter at GC, Rainbow bridge boat trip in Page (also Antelope Canyon and see Horseshoe bend) so much to see around there, can't fit it all in!
any hotels or restaurant reviews? we have our GC reserv booked and two nights in a sedona bed and breakfast.

Ok I am cutting in here as I lived in Flagstaff for 5 years and have done a few Sedona trips. For tours in Sedona I would do some research because there is a lot of companies. The Pink Jeep is by far the largest but because it is it is more expensive. Look for a company who has actual off roading excursions. Some just take a back road or a fire road. Sedona also has some awesome hiking! Some of the hikes have long hikes to get to it if you car can't go off-roading, but you can rent off-roading golf carts for pretty cheap. Devil's Bridge is a nice hike. The last little bit is a hands and knees and bottom climb to the top up natural stairs but its maybe 50 stairs and the view from the top is nice. There is a rock by the airport that you can climb up and get a great view of the town. Beautiful at sunset. If you like wine tasting, Cottonwood is nearby and has a bunch of wineries. If you want to do Slide Rock it is fun but you got to get there early. There is a two other stops that are just south of there that are just as fun and usually less busy. The first one going north is a parking lot on the side of the road just past the big iron bridge. This has a creek you can ride down and some holes you can swim in. The second is north just a little bit from the bridge with a parking attendant. This one has a large swimming hole and rocks to jump off of. Both will be more crowded on weekends but not that bad on weekdays. I personally would not do a helicopter tour. My friends worked for a company during college and I heard interesting stories about the pilots. Plus they can't go in the canyon so your not seeing a lot more. Food in Sedona, there is a steakhouse on Route 89A which I have been to twice and its great. I think its called Cowboy something. But they have an appetizers of cactus fries with prickly pear sauce which was delicious and great prickly pear margaritas. I love to also get ice cream from the shop across the way that also has a coffee shop inside, then walk out back and eat my ice cream looking at the rocks. The Sedona chocolate shop has some of the best chocolate I have ever had!
 
I personally would not do a helicopter tour.
I agree with Callie on this, although for a different reason. For a tour-type excursion, I just think there are probably better options.

For one thing, GRCA has large no-fly zones where aircraft of any description are forbidden. There are "corridors" over the park where aircraft are permitted, but I believe they must remain at least 2,000 feet above the rim of the canyon and more than a mile horizontally from the rim. Aircraft cannot fly into the Canyon for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is safety concerns caused by the typical strong, unpredictable winds.

It is possible that some pilots violate some of those regulations to give their customers a "better ride," but any pilot who does is not someone I would want to be flying with.

For excursions, there are a couple of other options.

One obviously is one of the famous mule rides, provided you meet the requirements: taller than 4'7", not visibly pregnant, and less than 200 pounds for Phantom Ranch or less than 225 pounds for the Canyon Vistas ride. Reservations can be made WAY in advance by calling 888-297-2757, or you can sign up for a daily waitlist.

Another is the smooth-water raft trip from Page, AZ to Lee's Ferry. I don't think that trip actually enters Grand Canyon (or even Marble Canyon above), and I don't know anything about the tour, but it's worth researching. Their number is 888-522-6644 or you can do the trip from the South Rim by calling the same number as the mule rides.
 
Sounds like you have a good handle on the hike.

I'm glad to see your references to electrolytes and salty snacks. This year's EMS buzzword seems to be hyponatremia - which is an insufficient level of sodium in the body, caused by drinking too much water among other things including underlying medical conditions.

I don't like those formulas (X liters per hour, etc) because individuals' systems for processing water and nutrients are so variable. What might be fine for one person might be decidedly not good for another. I would sip early and often, hit both Gatorade and snacks early and often, and listen to your body.

If you do the longer hike, be sure to refuel continually because low blood glucose can also be very dangerous. At Everglades, a lot of the patients we see for heat/dehydration are actually hypoglycemic -- and you don't have to be diabetic to have severe sugar problems with strenuous exercise. Blood sugar levels move to problematic high levels slowly, but sugar drops very rapidly and low sugar can put you in deep trouble quickly. It wouldn't be a bad idea to carry some Goo or PowerGel -- or just plain old oral glucose tubes that you can get in any drugstore (+/- $10 for 3 25-gram tubes) -- in case someone gets lightheaded. PowerGel has 10 grams of sugar (27 g carbs total), 200 mg of sodium, and a little bit of potassium and caffeine.

You probably know this, but there are shorter options on Bright Angel Trail. There are resthouses at 1.5 miles and 3.0 miles. The hiking is rated "moderate" to the 1.5 mile point, and "difficult" from there to 3.0. There's a 1,120 foot elevation change to 1.5, and another 1,000 to 3.0. So if conditions aren't to your liking you could do part of Bright Angel.


I have a healthy respect for what we will be doing. So will be taking every precaution. Also the point about "used to be in great shape" hit a little close. Don't want to be another statistic in this guys book. Nevertheless we are looking forward to a great trip.
 
For excursions, there are a couple of other options.

One obviously is one of the famous mule rides, provided you meet the requirements: taller than 4'7", not visibly pregnant, and less than 200 pounds for Phantom Ranch or less than 225 pounds for the Canyon Vistas ride. Reservations can be made WAY in advance by calling 888-297-2757, or you can sign up for a daily waitlist.

Another is the smooth-water raft trip from Page, AZ to Lee's Ferry. I don't think that trip actually enters Grand Canyon (or even Marble Canyon above), and I don't know anything about the tour, but it's worth researching. Their number is 888-522-6644 or you can do the trip from the South Rim by calling the same number as the mule rides.[/QUOTE]

I would love to do the mule ride either all the way down to the bottom or just the rim but so far I am overruled. DH and I did the mule ride in Yosemite and it was great but not as hair-raising as the GC would be so I have heard. I guess the first turn is a doozy. NOt sure why DH12 is up for a helicopter more than mule. No one has died on the mules ;)

We have all done white water rafting in Yosemite and enjoyed it but it wasn't very "whitewater" as it was July. I am aware of the smoothwater tour but we were looking at Rainbow Bridge tour - also out of Page but goes north thru Lake Powell and then a short walk to Rainbow Bridge. Countries largest natural bridge I believe. Looks cool and may tide me over until we can get to Arches etc.
 

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