Just back Autism and a Service Dog...

[PammyJJane]

I'm encouraged to hear about service animals being used for different dx's in addition to the sight-impaired. Our family went to a retreat at a school for the blind this month and from what we understood, anyone with even a bit of sight might be denied a dog because I guess the temptation to lead the dog is too great. Also, you must be 16 or 18 yrs old, depending on the organization, to get a seeing-eye dog. It's a bit frustrating because my daughter has a very strong affinity for our pet dogs and I think she would do wonderfully with a service dog. If medical advances aren't made my daughter (whose vision is currently 4x worse than legally blind) will be completely without sight and if she could get used to a dog at a younger age - say 12 or 14 - I think it would be a wonderful thing for her.

Do any of you that have service dogs also have other dogs at home? I hear that's not uncommon (the harness means work, no harness means go be a goofy dog). If so, how does this work for you?

 

[FredS]

This is an interesting thread. There was recently a court case in our area where a party said that she needed a service dog to help her remember when to take her meds, and to, as I recall, help "calm her." She insisted on bringing her dog into restaurants, etc. claiming that she was a "service animal" pursuant to ADA. Most people seem to try to bend over backwards to accommodate any sort of disabilities, so she was able to bully her (and her cute little ditsy dog!) way into wherever. Forget being disabled, her pet was not a service animal!

Only from that case did I learn that while the ADA doesn't have a comprehensive list of disabilities for which there are certain rights/protections, there is a test to determine if a condition falls under the Act.

Are there individuals whose autism is actually considered a disability under the ADA? Substantially limiting basic life activities -- seeing, breathing, walking and so forth -- is a pretty high standard.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Pammy: The reason many organizations do not allow people under a certain age to have dogs is because of the highly specialized training. A person must be consistent with their dog or they can "ruin" a dog to the extent it can no longer be used as a service animal. Many children and teenagers simply do not have the understanding or maturity. This is especially true with guide dogs who are always "on". Obviously this differs depending on the type of dog since ASDA (autism) dogs are used with kids.

Here are the types of dogs I know of:
-Autism: The dog is tethered to the child to keep the child from running away and to encourage the child to walk. The dog is used for socialization and petting is actually encrouaged. The dog can also help the child if they start to zone out or stim.

-Diabetes: the dog is trained to alert the owner to impending drops in blood sugar.

-Hearing impairment: dogs are trained to alert their owners to sounds such as a knock or smoke alarm.

-Mobility: what the dog is trained to do is dependent on the dog and the disability. For instance: a person in a wheelchair may have a dog that is able to fetch things for them, open doors etc. A person who has trouble walking may have a larger dog capable of steadying them.

-Psychiatric illness: A service dog may be trained to offer comfort for a person with a psychiatric illness such as depression or anxiety disorder.

-Seizure disorder: Some dogs can actually sense an impending seizure in enough time to allow the person to lay down and get to safety or seek help if needed.

-Specific illnesses: There are other dogs that are for people with severe illnesses that are capable of dialing 911 etc. I have even heard

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

There are specific definitions for "service animals":

-A service dog is is legally defined by the ADA and is trained to provide specific services for a defined disability
-A therapy dog is a pet that provides therapy, typically not to the owner but to others. There are no federal laws that apply to therapy dogs ,but there are laws in some states.
-Companion animal: a pet.

I do believe that autism is covered by the ADA. There have been many court cases brought by families of people with autism when appropriate access or accommodation has not been provided. All of these cases were tried under the ADA, and many of them were won.

 

[LauraVV]

My daughter is ten and has a service dog. She was the youngest to get a service dog from the agency we used. She was eight years two months when she got her dog. She went through training along with adults, took the same tests and everything.

Our daughter took her dog to school with her before she was homeschooled. The Attorney General's office for IL helped us with the school district when they didn't want her to go to take the dog to school.

A Service Animal must be an animal individually trained to do a task that mitigates a disabled person's disability. There is no specific list. Autism may disable a person. So may mobility issues. But, they might not. That's the problem with lists. Lists don't always fit the situation.

Age limits vary by organization. They are usually in place because a very young child would be unable to handle a dog. The handler has to be able to lead the dog. My daughter says she's her dog's Mom and I'm his grandma.

Dogs used as psychiatric service dogs also must be task trained. Offering comfort is not a trained task so a dog that provides comfort by licking or by its presence isn't a service dog under the ADA.

My daughter has a ventilator alert/response dog. He's certainly a remarkable animal.

Some agencies say that they allow children to take their dog out in public but then only allow this when parents are present. Our daughter is her dog's handler.

 

[SueM in MN]

I do believe that autism is covered by the ADA.

To clarify a little, the ADA does NOT provide accomodation for
autism,
ADD,
ADHD,
asthma,
blindness,
cerebral palsy,
diabetes,
epilepsy,
paralysis,
MS
or any other condition anyone cares to name.

The ADA provides accomodation for needs related to disability (which may be due to one of the things listed above.)
Whatever condition is being referred to, some people with that condition may not have any needs that require accomodation. Other people may have many needs that are not able to be met without specific accomodation.
The needs (according to the ADA) have to substantially limit one or more of the major life activities.
Major life activities are functions such as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning, and working.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Thanks Sue! That's what I thought, but then I thought somebody said there was a list or something of diagnoses and I wasn't able to find any information on the internet. I hate trying to read those things because of all the legal jargon. (I'm in grad school to be a teacher, not a lawyer) lol

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks Sue! That's what I thought, but then I thought somebody said there was a list or something of diagnoses and I wasn't able to find any information on the internet. I hate trying to read those things because of all the legal jargon. (I'm in grad school to be a teacher, not a lawyer) lol

A lot of people think there is a list, because there are some conditions that are given as examples. But, they didn't want to limit the ADA to certain conditions or have lawsuits about which condition was in and which wasn't.

In addition, 2 people could have the same condition / diagnosis - one person may have limitations that are covered by the ADA. The other person with the same diagnosis may not.

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

Our family went to a retreat at a school for the blind this month and from what we understood, anyone with even a bit of sight might be denied a dog because I guess the temptation to lead the dog is too great.

Most "blind" people are not completely blind - they are visually impaired. What vision they do have might not be usable, but some might have a little bit of useful vision. It just all depends on the person. Plenty of visually impaired (non-completely blind) folks have guide dogs. Ppl have to go through intense training to learn how to use the dogs correctly and they also need to know how to use a white cane correctly (usually they know that before the dog, but can learn both at the same time in some cases).

Also, you must be 16 or 18 yrs old, depending on the organization, to get a seeing-eye dog.

Just FYI, "Seeing Eye dog" is a registered trademark of The Seeing Eye, a specific guide dog program in New Jersey. Only dogs from that school are Seeing Eye dogs. All others are guide dogs or dog guides.

If medical advances aren't made my daughter (whose vision is currently 4x worse than legally blind) will be completely without sight and if she could get used to a dog at a younger age - say 12 or 14 - I think it would be a wonderful thing for her.

Old dogs - and people - CAN learn new tricks, don't worry. She'll be fine with waiting to get a guide dog 'til she is old enough to be responsible enough for it. Besides, some folks have huge difficulties getting service animals into school with them.

Do any of you that have service dogs also have other dogs at home? I hear that's not uncommon (the harness means work, no harness means go be a goofy dog). If so, how does this work for you?

I don't - one is enough for me!!! But I know others who do have one or more other dogs at home. Some programs do not give service animals to people who have other dogs at home (unless said dog is a retired service animal, in some cases).

There are three stages a service animal can be in:

Working - When the dog is harnessed/dressed and actively working (even if it doesn't look like he's working, i.e. sleeping under the table at a restaurant). He's on his very best public manners and should be "invisible" to others (i.e. if you forget that he is there, that's a job well done).

Off-Duty - When the dog is free to "just be a dog" and doesn't have any work that needs to be done at the moment. He acts like a housepet.

On Call - While this doesn't apply to all types of service animals, it does apply to many. It is when the dog is free to be a dog, but if their handler needs them to do something (i.e. retrieve something, alert to a sound or medical crisis, etc.), they get to work and do it before they go back to being a typical dog.

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

-Autism: The dog is tethered to the child to keep the child from running away and to encourage the child to walk. The dog is used for socialization and petting is actually encrouaged. The dog can also help the child if they start to zone out or stim.

Not all Autism dogs are tethered to the child. Many argue that tethering is not a safe practice and should never be done. Adults can also have Autism dogs. Autism dogs, along with all other types of service dogs, must be trained to do tasks that mitigate the disability.

-Psychiatric illness: A service dog may be trained to offer comfort for a person with a psychiatric illness such as depression or anxiety disorder.

That is not a service dog. A dog used for comfort, its presence, as a visual reminder, etc. is not a service dog. A dog must be individually trained to do work (i.e. guide work, mobility work, etc.) or perform tasks (i.e. retrieve items, alert to medical attacks, etc.) to mitigate the person's disability. A woman recently lost a lawsuit because she tried to call her pet a service dog when she only used it for comfort and said its presence reminded her to take her meds and such.

-Seizure disorder: Some dogs can actually sense an impending seizure in enough time to allow the person to lay down and get to safety or seek help if needed.

There are also Seizure Response dogs, which don't alert to seizures before they happen but go to work when the seizure does happen. They do things like keep the person from getting injured (i.e. laying on top of a person who flails during a seizure), go for help (i.e. get another person in the house), etc.

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

The ADA provides accomodation for needs related to disability (which may be due to one of the things listed above.)
Whatever condition is being referred to, some people with that condition may not have any needs that require accomodation. Other people may have many needs that are not able to be met without specific accomodation.

Also, some people have two or more conditions that would not disable them if they had just one of them, but combined together disable them.

The ADA uses the term "impairment" (a disability is a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities).

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Ms. Butterfly: My list was not meant to all inclusive. Obviously each dog and situation is different. This was just a general example taken from a website called Delta which is dedicated to service dogs. On that site it did list psychiatric dogs as service dogs provided the were trained for specific tasks. I did not know the term seeing-eye dog was trademarked, I used it because that is how most people think of guide dogs for the blind. It's kind of like Kleenex- although the actual term may be trademarked or copyrighted by a certain company, it is also used in mainstream culture as generic term. Now I know that it is trademarked!

 

[bookwormde]

What is not well understood is that ADA is a discrimination law not a disabilities law. The full definition for a disability under ADA is “A physical or mental impairment which substantially limits one or more of the major life activities, a record of such impairments, being regarded as having such an impairment”.

There have been a lot of judicial and administrative rulings on this, which support specific situations, but there is no “list” in ADA.

The current concept is that if you have a medical situation that keeps you from enjoying the same “societal” benefits as others (with practical exceptions) then you are being discriminated against and are covered by ADA. This has come about as the “understanding” of major life activities has expanded particularly as to the definition of “learning” and being a part of the “social community”.

Most states have statues specifically for service dogs, which are independent from ADA, as do portions of the federal statutes.

Fred S

Do you have a link to the case I would love to read it?

If it was not successful then it was poorly argued particularly if it was a child.

Life skills (and their associated experiences) are definitely part of the “learning” portion of the interpretations. The need was to have emotional stability to be involved in the activity.

As to the comments about comfort it is quite true that this is not covered, but a SD trained to reduce anxiety to allow an individual to function in the social world is.

bookwormde

 

[FredS]

....The current concept is that if you have a medical situation that keeps you from enjoying the same “societal” benefits as others (with practical exceptions) then you are being discriminated against and are covered by ADA. This has come about as the “understanding” of major life activities has expanded particularly as to the definition of “learning” and being a part of the “social community”.
....

Fred S

Do you have a link to the case I would love to read it?

If it was not successful then it was poorly argued particularly if it was a child.

Life skills (and their associated experiences) are definitely part of the “learning” portion of the interpretations. The need was to have emotional stability to be involved in the activity.

As to the comments about comfort it is quite true that this is not covered, but a SD trained to reduce anxiety to allow an individual to function in the social world is.

bookwormde

I am not aware of a link. The situation was CLEARLY not one which should have been protected by the ADA. How in the world you reached THAT conclusion I do not understand?! It was a middle-aged woman who just liked to carry her "purse dog" around with her, so she would tell security people, hosts at restaurants and so forth that it was a "service dog". When a restaurant refused to seat her and her dog (and several teens and young adults) because they didn't allow pets, she had a tantrum and sued them. At the trial, her only stated reasons that even hinted at why she felt she "needed" the dog was that it helped her remember to take her meds and she was comforted by it. The dog had no training whatsoever, and she had no disability pursuant to the ADA.

I would love a link to legal cases which interpret the ADA pursuant to your post's stated concept. I have never heard of this, and it seems very, very far afield from the relatively clear language of the ADA.

 

[PammyJJane]

I didn't realize seeing eye is a trademark, thanks! I believe they did refer to the dogs as such at my recent retreat because it was the organization in Morristown to which they were referring. My information about about the amount of vision one can have came from an actual dog recipient, not the institute itself, so he wasn't an authority on it. They did mention it was evaluated on an individual basis. One of the most amazing things we learned was the cost (including flight and the 3 days of training, plus room and board); I believe it was $150. I nearly cried, it's just amazing.

I do understand the level of responsibility entailed in having a service dog, and don't know that she would be mature enough even at 18 - that's a long way away. I suppose my main concern is that I would like her to go to college, confidently and independently, wherever she wants and I can't help wishing she could have a dog at a younger age.

However since she'll currently take off running, dragging her cane behind her...LOL.

 

[LauraVV]

They did mention it was evaluated on an individual basis. One of the most amazing things we learned was the cost (including flight and the 3 days of training, plus room and board); I believe it was $150. I nearly cried, it's just amazing.

I don't know anything about this agency but one thing to be aware of is that, while many agencies say that there is no cost or charge associated with their program they require handlers to raise a certain amount of funds. One other thing to be aware of is that once you have a service dog it can become difficult to live without one. You often don't realize all the dog does for you. When you evaluated agencies one important question is this: when my dog dies or becomes unable to work, how long will it take for me to get a replacement dog? Our agency puts those who have had their dogs at the top of the list. When we went through boot camp there was a lady who had lost her dog suddenly six weeks earlier.

My kids both have service dogs. One was quite young when she received her dog and the other was 17. We received grants for all of the cost. The only out of pocket expenses we had were for groceries, air flight/transportation to the facility, and vehicle rental during team training.

 

[bookwormde]

FredS,

Thanks for the extra information on the case. I could not see how she would possibly think it was covered unless the situation was as I stated in my last post.

The statute is only the beginning of the implementation of any law. There are administrative and judicial rulings, which really set the practical scope of the law. This is true for almost all such laws including ADA, IDEA, NCLB and all the rest of the alphabet regulations.

I had the fun of being a design professional back I the 90’s and spent many hours sandwiched between two ADA attorneys reading over the law and all of its interpretations at that point. It really was fun because I got to be the good guy who came up with the innovative and cost effective solutions to the dispute. The documentation stayed with my company at the time so I have only limited amounts of documentation.

I have within the last few years read some rulings, which clarified the expansion of the covered areas to learning including the area of social skills and the public areas required to obtain them. Of course I also did not bookmark them.

I am guessing that you are not overly experienced with spectrum disabilities but I will liken it to being socially blind just like being visually blind, yes you can get around but not in a safe and equivalent manner.

So back on topic that is why in some cases SDs, depending on the nature of the disability and the need of the individual may be covered by ADA

bookwormde

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

Ms. Butterfly: My list was not meant to all inclusive. Obviously each dog and situation is different. This was just a general example taken from a website called Delta which is dedicated to service dogs. On that site it did list psychiatric dogs as service dogs provided the were trained for specific tasks.

I wasn't saying you were saying that, just was correcting a few things, is all. All SDs, no matter the type, must be trained to do tasks - it is the legal definition and reason for one to have an SD. Some ppl try to pass their pets or Emotional Support Pets off as SDs, so it is important that ppl know that animals for comfort or mere presence are not SDs.

The Delta Society is a therapy dog organization. A while ago they tried to do SD stuff, but it fizzled and they just keep the info. up for informational purposes. Their focus is helping people train their pets to be therapy dogs, which are dogs that go visit nursing homes, hospitals, schools, etc. to comfort and bring joy to residents/students there. (It is a great thing for pet owners to do! Brings joy to them and their dogs, too!)

I did not know the term seeing-eye dog was trademarked, I used it because that is how most people think of guide dogs for the blind. It's kind of like Kleenex- although the actual term may be trademarked or copyrighted by a certain company, it is also used in mainstream culture as generic term. Now I know that it is trademarked!

Yes, but the Kleenex company is not fastidious about ppl using their trademarked name wrongly. The Seeing Eye is very keen on ppl misusing their name.

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

As to the comments about comfort it is quite true that this is not covered, but a SD trained to reduce anxiety to allow an individual to function in the social world is.

If the dog does a trained task that reduces anxiety, then it may be eligible as an SD. But a dog just being there for comfort or its presence for any other reason is a pet, not an SD. As per the law and case law, an SD must be trained to do tasks like guide work or retrieving or whatever the person needs. (Said task must also mitigate their disability - if a person with a severe anxiety disorder that disables them has a dog that retrieves items and they are able to do that task on their own, that dog is not an SD for them.)

 

[Ms_Butterfly]

At the trial, her only stated reasons that even hinted at why she felt she "needed" the dog was that it helped her remember to take her meds and she was comforted by it. The dog had no training whatsoever, and she had no disability pursuant to the ADA.

That is similar to the recent case where a lady brought her dog into a convenience store. The case did not dispute that she had a disability (anxiety, I believe - she had an attack when the police arrested her), but they disputed that the dog was an SD. In court, she said how her dog's presence reminded her to take meds and stay focused. The court ruled that under the ADA, merely being a presence to provide comfort, companionship, or interaction with the individual does not make the dog an SD. She lost her case.

The link to that one is: http://www.websupp.com/data/EDWA/2:06-cv-03026-46-EDWA.pdf