I’m afraid the Magic is gone!

[namelessoracle]

Sounds to me very much like a decision point.

With $1.8 billion in quarterly parks profits, Chapek will need to decide whether it’s smarter to continue to starve the parks (and watch them lose their luster) to more quickly amortize corporate debt, or to try to restore “the Magic” by retaining at least part of those profits in the parks division.

Disney has alot of bills coming up (look up the Hulu situation). Only way they can they can pay their bills is the loans they've taken out, some of those loans are set on them hitting certain profit levels Im willing to bet. I can guarantee you the current board has both chosen Chapek and are keeping him because of a focus on "fiscal discipline". Cheapek might be a slur to us, but to the Board its literally why they want him right now.

There isnt any actual tangible evidence that the parks have been impacted from a profitability for Disney perspective, they are all close to capacity and all the current problems with them can be blamed by Chapek on broader staffing issues every company is having right now. Now I agree that there is a potential Death spiral problem, once Parks DO get impacted and people stop going it might be too late to stop the bleeding. But there is no objective metric that what Chapek is doing to the parks is causing financial problems for the parks right now.

Everyone is talking up Universal. But look at what Universal is starting to do their annual pass holders, rising their hotel prices, and we may be seeing a broader trend towards more aggressive monetization. It may just be that the theme park industry has decided middle class families are less lucrative than Millienial DINCs.

 

[OppR2nist]

I'm not wanting to go on vacation to WDW and then have to search high and low for the supposed hidden magic that requires that I know where to look to find it. As I'm sure many people can attest, in the old days, you didn't have to know where to look. It was all around you everywhere you turned and everywhere you went. In my opinion, people are using their imagination and nostalgic wishful thinking to fill in the gaps where the magic used to be and they clap their hands and believe and pretend it's still there. If I have to imagine the magic is still there in order to experience it, I might as well stay home, save the money, and use my imagination there. The "magic" was not just some inexplicable feeling. It was based on real, discernible experiences, such as how CMs presented themselves and how they and the company treated guests, the appearance of the park, the plussing beyond what was minimally required.

That's not at all what I said, not even close. Have fun with whatever that is, I guess.

 

[Jrb1979]

Disney has alot of bills coming up (look up the Hulu situation). Only way they can they can pay their bills is the loans they've taken out, some of those loans are set on them hitting certain profit levels Im willing to bet. I can guarantee you the current board has both chosen Chapek and are keeping him because of a focus on "fiscal discipline". Cheapek might be a slur to us, but to the Board its literally why they want him right now.

There isnt any actual tangible evidence that the parks have been impacted from a profitability for Disney perspective, they are all close to capacity and all the current problems with them can be blamed by Chapek on broader staffing issues every company is having right now. Now I agree that there is a potential Death spiral problem, once Parks DO get impacted and people stop going it might be too late to stop the bleeding. But there is no objective metric that what Chapek is doing to the parks is causing financial problems for the parks right now.

Everyone is talking up Universal. But look at what Universal is starting to do their annual pass holders, rising their hotel prices, and we may be seeing a broader trend towards more aggressive monetization. It may just be that the theme park industry has decided middle class families are less lucrative than Millienial DINCs.

Yes both parks are expensive and they always have been. There is more then just those 2 parks out there.

 

[namelessoracle]

Yes both parks are expensive and they always have been. There is more then just those 2 parks out there.

Whose to say all parks wont get expensive? Cheapest right now is basically Six Flags, and most people still say Disney is better than Six Flags. Even DOLLYWOOD is 85 a head now. I guess the question is Disney still 2 to 3 times better than Six Flags? I would say the answer is yes if you have the money.

This is just a fruit of general anti consumer trends in all entertainment industries, look at what you used to get when buying a movie/videogame/go to the movies and now. The focus is about milking you dry. You dont get feature complete products even with a car anymore (look up how BMW has a subscription for your heated seats). Genie Plus is just the beginning. I just dont see where you go instead. Universal has made you pay for Express Passes for awhile. I mean Disney fans used to mock Universal because of that because "Fastpass was included". Dont expect any saviors to come about here.

 

[Jmljasmine]

idk we just came back from a June trip and had a great time. We did genie+ most days and did buy ILL for guardians most days + VQ so putting the extra money twords these things really made our days super nice. One of our best trips really.

That's the problem. We have no cushion in our budget for extras since all the prices have risen so much and we are a party of 6. We are going because I had to cancel a 2020 trip and I promised the kids. I'm trying to have very low expectations. I've already begun prepping the adults and the oldest kid that we won't do as much this time and it will be different. Hopefully the younger ones just don't notice.

 

[Jmljasmine]

Disney has alot of bills coming up (look up the Hulu situation). Only way they can they can pay their bills is the loans they've taken out, some of those loans are set on them hitting certain profit levels Im willing to bet. I can guarantee you the current board has both chosen Chapek and are keeping him because of a focus on "fiscal discipline". Cheapek might be a slur to us, but to the Board its literally why they want him right now.

There isnt any actual tangible evidence that the parks have been impacted from a profitability for Disney perspective, they are all close to capacity and all the current problems with them can be blamed by Chapek on broader staffing issues every company is having right now. Now I agree that there is a potential Death spiral problem, once Parks DO get impacted and people stop going it might be too late to stop the bleeding. But there is no objective metric that what Chapek is doing to the parks is causing financial problems for the parks right now.

Everyone is talking up Universal. But look at what Universal is starting to do their annual pass holders, rising their hotel prices, and we may be seeing a broader trend towards more aggressive monetization. It may just be that the theme park industry has decided middle class families are less lucrative than Millienial DINCs.

I think this is true. Partly I think the parks are still looking good because of families like ours who promised cancelled trips to kids. (though it is a much shorter trip then the cancelled one since we are keeping the same budget). Once those are done, I'm curious if things will change the outlook of how strategies are actually doing.
On the other hand, Maybe DINKs are going to pay off and we middle class families just need to accept it and get more creative with our vacation options. It's hard to accept but maybe we'll end up with more fulfilling experiences.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

idk we just came back from a June trip and had a great time. We did genie+ most days and did buy ILL for guardians most days + VQ so putting the extra money twords these things really made our days super nice. One of our best trips really.

Well maybe a family of 4 doesn’t have an extra $300 for 5 days of genie plus and another $340 on lighting lanes based on 5 days.

So congrats guests. We all just paid an extra $640 for something that was free to do, before Covid dropped.

While yeah it makes things easier, if you can afford it. Sadly most can’t or need to scale back

To each their own in the end though. Not judging. I’d pay it also if you have the means. Just saying money is money.

Someone who can afford more will have a better time than those who can’t. That’s natural. It’s just before having to pay for all this, everyone could enjoy those things equally. From value to deluxe.

 

[Kitty & Covs Covs]

Has the average age of a CM gone down? I’m not here to make generational distinctions in attitudes, but more to point out that some of the non-monetary reasons someone might be happy as a too-low paid CM might no longer be at play (on average). For example, I always remember retired folks working at WDW as a nice-to-have job that kept them active and engaged with people. With 1) Disney’s forced retirement of many CMs, and 2) many people unable to retire until long past their desire for a job like a CM, maybe there’s a shift there?

This also probably relates to the continued lack of international CMs, who, again, had other reasons for their job.

I hope Disney is looking at non-monetary motivations for being a successful CM according to past standards and working on bringing that back—if they really can’t raise wages. It seems like with the return of after hour parties and other small cast perks they are, but that only covers a subset of reasons someone might enjoy being a CM.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Has the average age of a CM gone down? I’m not here to make generational distinctions in attitudes, but more to point out that some of the non-monetary reasons someone might be happy as a too-low paid CM might no longer be at play (on average). For example, I always remember retired folks working at WDW as a nice-to-have job that kept them active and engaged with people. With 1) Disney’s forced retirement of many CMs, and 2) many people unable to retire until long past their desire for a job like a CM, maybe there’s a shift there?

This also probably relates to the continued lack of international CMs, who, again, had other reasons for their job.

I hope Disney is looking at non-monetary motivations for being a successful CM according to past standards and working on bringing that back—if they really can’t raise wages. It seems like with the return of after hour parties and other small cast perks they are, but that only covers a subset of reasons someone might enjoy being a CM.

I think a major part of it is Disney's reliance on the College Program to fill roles. On my last trip I noticed almost every single CM I came across (minus housekeeping) looked to be around college aged. There are a few videos on Youtube from former College Program CMs as to why they quit the program and all of them said that Disney is putting them in any position that they need filled rather than before where the applicant can choose their role. Many of these CMs quit due to a mixture of hating their role, the pay being WAY too low to pay for their Flamingo Crossing apartment rent, having 12-13 hour work days almost every day with barely any days off or all of the above.

 

[Bellhop97]

Also the College Program is basically exploitation, and i legit dont understand why anyone with a college degree would ever agree to it. I guess their pipeline is fine arts colleges and people who get degrees in things that dont have any other employment opportunities. I've seen spots for like culinary with that group and i guess if you have a degree in baking and want to make some of the custom sweets thats a decent intern style opportunity, but i dont get who wants to go be in the suit all day after going to College for X years.

Have to disagree with your opinion on the college program, as a former college program CM, it was the best experience I have ever had, you get college credits for it., which goes towards your degree, and it does look good on your resume, it sticks out to employers. To each their own.

 

[JulieBeeRN]

Speaking to going above and beyond, we definitely experienced that on our December 2021 trip. We had been at GF for three days when we received a phone call that one of our family members had to have emergency surgery and we didn’t know if she was even going to survive the surgery.

We had a split stay with GF and OKW, so I went down to the front desk to check out early and inquire about canceling the OKW reservation. I was trying to hold it together but I burst into tears just trying to talk to the front desk CM. She instantly got a manager, who took me to a private area. He was so kind to me. I managed to tell him my story, between sobs, and he was very comforting too. He said that he would take care canceling of the OKW reservation and get us checked out early. I didn’t ask about any monetary issues bc I didn’t really think that was an option since it was last minute and honestly just didn’t want to call anyone about it or mess around with it online. We were able to change our airline tickets for the next morning.

So, looking at our bill the next day, not only did Disney let us cancel the OKW reservation AND check out early at GF without penalty. They refunded everything from our first four days, including the room and everything that we charged. I just didn’t have words for that and still don’t.

 

[xipotec]

There is no fork in the road. Everyone hates Chapek. But the bill for the shopping spree Eiger went on is coming due and it will be paid.

The bill is not being paid. its going to the stock holder…

 

[namelessoracle]

Have to disagree with your opinion on the college program, as a former college program CM, it was the best experience I have ever had, you get college credits for it., which goes towards your degree, and it does look good on your resume, it sticks out to employers. To each their own.

Im legit curious what employer told you that seeing that on your resume is why they hired you. Maybe there are industries that care about that and Im just not aware of them?

 

[namelessoracle]

That's the problem. We have no cushion in our budget for extras since all the prices have risen so much and we are a party of 6. We are going because I had to cancel a 2020 trip and I promised the kids. I'm trying to have very low expectations. I've already begun prepping the adults and the oldest kid that we won't do as much this time and it will be different. Hopefully the younger ones just don't notice.

Well maybe a family of 4 doesn’t have an extra $300 for 5 days of genie plus and another $340 on lighting lanes based on 5 days.

So congrats guests. We all just paid an extra $640 for something that was free to do, before Covid dropped.

While yeah it makes things easier, if you can afford it. Sadly most can’t or need to scale back

To each their own in the end though. Not judging. I’d pay it also if you have the means. Just saying money is money.

Someone who can afford more will have a better time than those who can’t. That’s natural. It’s just before having to pay for all this. Everyone can enjoy those things equally. From value to deluxe.

Disney does not want people who stress an extra 500-600 dollars in their parks anymore, because those people wont impulse buy the food and merch with how much they raised the prices prices on those.

Its sad but its basically the truth, with parks at capacity they would filter out more normal people going forward.

 

[greeneyedchick]

Whose to say all parks wont get expensive? Cheapest right now is basically Six Flags, and most people still say Disney is better than Six Flags. Even DOLLYWOOD is 85 a head now. I guess the question is Disney still 2 to 3 times better than Six Flags? I would say the answer is yes if you have the money.

This is just a fruit of general anti consumer trends in all entertainment industries, look at what you used to get when buying a movie/videogame/go to the movies and now. The focus is about milking you dry. You dont get feature complete products even with a car anymore (look up how BMW has a subscription for your heated seats). Genie Plus is just the beginning. I just dont see where you go instead. Universal has made you pay for Express Passes for awhile. I mean Disney fans used to mock Universal because of that because "Fastpass was included". Dont expect any saviors to come about here.

Your comment reminds me of the article I read today where the tickets for the new Bruce Springsteen tour are running between $1000-$5000 per person. Crazy!

I find it particularly interesting that entertainment is taking this approach when it's easy for me to catch the latest concerts from uploaded videos on YouTube for free. I know it's not the same, but it's a close second to paying thousands for 2 people to see one concert. I haven't been back to Disney since covid but I told my kids that if they want to see the new Remy or Mickey's Runway ride, they can view it with their VR headsets. It's not all that different considering the new rides are mostly screens. And it's a lot easier than standing in line and dealing with crowds. VR headset=$300

 

[OppR2nist]

Im legit curious what employer told you that seeing that on your resume is why they hired you. Maybe there are industries that care about that and Im just not aware of them?

It's a known thing. The Disney name is the gold standard in many industries. I worked in foodservice hospitality for over 20 years, and Disney on the resume was pretty much an auto-hire. My wife is a corporate trainer, and it's pretty much the same.

 

[greeneyedchick]

Has the average age of a CM gone down? I’m not here to make generational distinctions in attitudes, but more to point out that some of the non-monetary reasons someone might be happy as a too-low paid CM might no longer be at play (on average). For example, I always remember retired folks working at WDW as a nice-to-have job that kept them active and engaged with people. With 1) Disney’s forced retirement of many CMs, and 2) many people unable to retire until long past their desire for a job like a CM, maybe there’s a shift there?

This also probably relates to the continued lack of international CMs, who, again, had other reasons for their job.

I hope Disney is looking at non-monetary motivations for being a successful CM according to past standards and working on bringing that back—if they really can’t raise wages. It seems like with the return of after hour parties and other small cast perks they are, but that only covers a subset of reasons someone might enjoy being a CM.

I've heard that CMs need park reservations (which are severely restricted, like the APs) in order to use their employee comp tickets. That was a big perk for me when I worked there during college. I could treat my family. As someone else mentioned, I don't know why kids do the college program. Those of us who worked there while in college (but not in the college program) pitied them because they got paid a lot less than everyone else and they got assigned all of the jobs that no one else wanted, like stroller rental. It's not worth it, especially if you college charges you for getting the internship credit (most do).

 

[namelessoracle]

It's a known thing. The Disney name is the gold standard in many industries. I worked in foodservice hospitality for over 20 years, and Disney on the resume was pretty much an auto-hire. My wife is a corporate trainer, and it's pretty much the same.

Interesting. I work in tech and Disney on your resume is just viewed as any other job.Not particularly negatively or positively, and assuming you are talking about their IT departments, and you'd probably be viewed as coming from a place with a reputation of trying to overwork their employees for what they pay.

But to be blunt I view going to college for food service and hospitality kind of an interesting choice to begin with, I mean wont Disney hire you now for the same work that the college program people are being made to do straight out of high school? And doesnt food service and hospitality value work experience more than a degree?

 

[OppR2nist]

Interesting. I work in tech and Disney on your resume is just viewed as any other job.Not particularly negatively or positively, and assuming you are talking about their IT departments, and you'd probably be viewed as coming from a place with a reputation of trying to overwork their employees for what they pay.

But to be blunt I view going to college for food service and hospitality kind of an interesting choice to begin with, I mean wont Disney hire you now for the same work that the college program people are being made to do straight out of high school? And doesnt food service and hospitality value work experience more than a degree?

The hospitality/customer service training at Disney has always been viewed as top-notch. You might not have a leg up necessarily as a waiter or a short-order cook, but management and chefs are definitely seen as having superior training.

 

[namelessoracle]

Your comment reminds me of the article I read today where the tickets for the new Bruce Springsteen tour are running between $1000-$5000 per person. Crazy!

I find it particularly interesting that entertainment is taking this approach when it's easy for me to catch the latest concerts from uploaded videos on YouTube for free. I know it's not the same, but it's a close second to paying thousands for 2 people to see one concert. I haven't been back to Disney since covid but I told my kids that if they want to see the new Remy or Mickey's Runway ride, they can view it with their VR headsets. It's not all that different considering the new rides are mostly screens. And it's a lot easier than standing in line and dealing with crowds. VR headset=$300

With the shrinking middle class and the overall stretch of the wealth divide, companies that want growth have really only 2 paths. Go for mass appeal or get the people willing to pay more, to pay more. Disney has pretty clearly chosen to go the pay more path. It used to be that that being able to take your family to Disney World was how you knew you made it into the middle class. Problem is that the definition of middle class has gone WAY up and people just waking up to that. Disney World is just the canary in the coal mine for some people.