Ghislaine

[LuvOrlando]

Before the trial is over and a verdict given, she is as innocent as anyone. That's how our system works. Additionally, all we think we know about this case is formed by our click bait driven media. I will agree that if she did what she's accused of...I will not spare her a moment's thought while she rots in jail.

I think lots of people feel the way you do about holding back but to me the whole innocent until guilty rule is how it works for the authorities, but neither I nor is anyone else in the public (including you) is under any such an obligation. We really shouldn't declare opinion as fact, but our opinions and feelings are free to roam and land wherever they want, that is still within our rights.

If I was in the jury my civic duty would be to withhold opinion until the evidence is in, and I would do so faithfully. But, I'm not on the jury so I am just waiting for the fact checkers to deliver Justice, if there is such a thing as Justice for victims of such things which may be nothing more that watching the abusers be as humiliated as the abused.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I watched Filthy Rich documentary on Netflix and while there's always a bias presented it as far more than just clickbait articles. The stories these survivors tell the incredible amount of detail that haunts them. I did appreciate how these survivors were in fact blunt in things. It was a hard several episodes to watch but worthy of one if people are interested.

There's a lot that Ghislaine would have known with how much closeness she had with Epstein. And a lot these survivors advise in her role.

 

[MrBellatrixLestrange]

Why bother with a trial! US public opinion has already decided she is guilty and she has been held in maximum security in appalling conditions for fifteen months.
But who cares? Epstein escaped justice and people feel angry and cheated so someone has to be pilloried if only to help justify the huge cash payments to the "victims".

ford family

I'm going to file this under "Arguments I never thought I would see in a million years."

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Epstein escaped justice and people feel angry and cheated so someone has to be pilloried if only to help justify the huge cash payments to the "victims".

1) the usage of quotations is...well others touched on that already

2) the comment I quoted of yours is beyond simplistic. There have been multiple lawsuits against Ghislaine long before Epstein killed himself, there have been other lawsuits involving Prince Andrew and he has been embroiled in allegations for years as well (before Epstein killed himself). And so on.

If you think this is merely a "get whomever you can because you can't get Epstein" scenario I don't know what to tell you but the various legal actions as well as investigations from those who don't have anything to gain tell otherwise. What does complicate matters in what will and can be known in public record is the issue that the victims were often minors.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

if you are waiting for names to be dropped, it is possible that this trial is limited to the accusers' testimony regarding Ghislaine and Epstein (who is deceased) and they may have to stick to that and not bring in other possible accused, since the scope of this criminal complaint probably doesn't cover them. those waiting for the big name drops may end up being disappointed.

 

[GAN]

Given that most of our opinions are based on made-for-tv docu-dramas we should all wait till she has her day in court. Although it's shocking that so many women, from all different backgrounds, have a similar story to tell about her role. Based on that alone, she probably shouldn't stand a chance. Even if she started her life with some kind of soul, being swept up by Epstein's money helped her turn a blind eye to the criminal acts. Some people will do anything for money.... just watch Dopesick on Hulu.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Even if she started her life with some kind of soul, being swept up by Epstein's money helped her turn a blind eye to the criminal acts.

If you follow her upbringing and meetings with Epstein it doesn't appear that he dazzled her in respects to money. Besides she came from money anyways. Her father owned a yacht of which she spent a long time on it and he was a media mogul, she was a British socialite before she met Epstein. She had a hefty yearly payment from her trust fund. She did not at all appear to be someone who was just glamoured by the wealthy lifestyle. She lived that lifestyle already.

 

[GAN]

If you follow her upbringing and meetings with Epstein it doesn't appear that he dazzled her in respects to money. Besides she came from money anyways. Her father owned a yacht of which she spent a long time on it and he was a media mogul, she was a British socialite before she met Epstein. She had a hefty yearly payment from her trust fund. She did not at all appear to be someone who was just glamoured by the wealthy lifestyle. She lived that lifestyle already.

I'm familiar with the family story, but if you dig you'll find that when her father died the finances revealed a business about to implode ...they owed $100M's in debt as well as faced fraud charges for raiding close to $500,000,000 in pension funds. This was left on the back of the children -so what she really had is hard to say. The other thing is a million dollar(or whatever) annual trust fund payment for her lifestyle is a lot to the average person ...but to her who knows. She was definitely not left with what she had been accustomed to...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm familiar with the family story, but if you dig you'll find that when her father died the finances revealed a business about to implode ...they owed $100M's in debt as well as faced fraud charges for raiding close to $500,000,000 in pension funds. This was left on the back of the children -so what she really had is hard to say. The other thing is a million dollar(or whatever) annual trust fund payment for her lifestyle is a lot to the average person ...but to her who knows. She was definitely not left with what she had been accustomed to...

Yes that is know. You can't though in good conscious IMO position her like she was awestruck with his money and that made her mum's the word about what he did as your other comment was that she was swept up in it more like a rags to riches storyline; she came from money, knew the wealth and social scene and lived it. She may have been awestruck for a very different reason but wealth...that does not seem like the likely reason for her to keep quiet much less have the very active role such that the allegations against her say she had. It may be far more simple like a woman devoted in an icky way (I say that because of the natures of the crimes) to a man she very much cared for

 

[LuvOrlando]

I'm familiar with the family story, but if you dig you'll find that when her father died the finances revealed a business about to implode ...they owed $100M's in debt as well as faced fraud charges for raiding close to $500,000,000 in pension funds. This was left on the back of the children -so what she really had is hard to say. The other thing is a million dollar(or whatever) annual trust fund payment for her lifestyle is a lot to the average person ...but to her who knows. She was definitely not left with what she had been accustomed to...

Sooo poor little rich girl? OK, I'll keep that in mind..... meanwhile back in the real world, most humans struggle with real things, ya know, like the girls who were preyed upon.

More monsters being dragged into the light, seems there is a lot of demand for kids born into poverty (and I mean real poverty I don't mean not getting the trust fund one feels entitled to getting). Better late than never.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylvania/mennonite-church-liberty-ridge-farm-abuse-20211130.html

 

[mumto3girls]

Why bother with a trial! US public opinion has already decided she is guilty and she has been held in maximum security in appalling conditions for fifteen months.
But who cares? Epstein escaped justice and people feel angry and cheated so someone has to be pilloried if only to help justify the huge cash payments to the "victims".

ford family

Wow. Are you related to Ghislaine?

 

[MrBellatrixLestrange]

Wow. Are you related to Ghislaine?

Probably her accountant.

 

[JimMIA]

if you are waiting for names to be dropped, it is possible that this trial is limited to the accusers' testimony regarding Ghislaine and Epstein (who is deceased) and they may have to stick to that and not bring in other possible accused, since the scope of this criminal complaint probably doesn't cover them. those waiting for the big name drops may end up being disappointed.

I agree.

I would love to see not only names dropped, but details about exactly what their involvement was -- but that would be prejudicial unless it could be shown that Ghislaine Maxwell herself was directly involved in connecting one or more of the victims to the "name."

I think that is undoubtedly possible, but I suspect that not only the defense attorneys, but also the prosecutors and judge, would like to keep all that stuff out.

Don't forget this case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Department of Justice, not some local prosecutor.

 

[GAN]

Yes that is know. You can't though in good conscious IMO position her like she was awestruck with his money and that made her mum's the word about what he did as your other comment was that she was swept up in it more like a rags to riches storyline; she came from money, knew the wealth and social scene and lived it. She may have been awestruck for a very different reason but wealth...that does not seem like the likely reason for her to keep quiet much less have the very active role such that the allegations against her say she had. It may be far more simple like a woman devoted in an icky way (I say that because of the natures of the crimes) to a man she very much cared for

We may never know the actual reason....

Maybe she did see Epstein as a replacement for her fathers money? I don't know -anything's possible. I doubt she grew up thinking that harvesting young girls for a pedophile might be a good career move...

 

[GAN]

Sooo poor little rich girl? OK, I'll keep that in mind..... meanwhile back in the real world, most humans struggle with real things, ya know, like the girls who were preyed upon.

More monsters being dragged into the light, seems there is a lot of demand for kids born into poverty (and I mean real poverty I don't mean not getting the trust fund one feels entitled to getting). Better late than never.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylvania/mennonite-church-liberty-ridge-farm-abuse-20211130.html

You probably should read my previous post.... believe me I don't feel bad for the poor little rich girl

 

[LuvOrlando]

[

You probably should read my previous post.... believe me I don't feel bad for the poor little rich girl

It seems you are giving her the benefit of the doubt, a benefit I am in no mood to afford, it is possible for women to be sadistic monsters every bit as brutal as men. A female doesn't need to be swept up to go bad.

 

[bsmcneil]

I think lots of people feel the way you do about holding back but to me the whole innocent until guilty rule is how it works for the authorities, but neither I nor is anyone else in the public (including you) is under any such an obligation. We really shouldn't declare opinion as fact, but our opinions and feelings are free to roam and land wherever they want, that is still within our rights.

If I was in the jury my civic duty would be to withhold opinion until the evidence is in, and I would do so faithfully. But, I'm not on the jury so I am just waiting for the fact checkers to deliver Justice, if there is such a thing as Justice for victims of such things which may be nothing more that watching the abusers be as humiliated as the abused.

To be fair, were you to be on a jury, you wouldn't be asked to withhold your opinion until evidence is in but rather to be free from opinion until you've witnessed the evidence and testimony both sides bring to trial. But my guess is that someone like you would make a comment like you just did and rightfully would be asked to leave during jury selection/voir dire.

 

[GAN]

[

It seems you are giving her the benefit of the doubt, a benefit I am in no mood to afford, it is possible for women to be sadistic monsters every bit as brutal as men. A female doesn't need to be swept up to go bad.

Sorry to hear about your mood.... hard to tell sometimes. You may be right -but I'm willing to hear the whole story come out in court where it belongs. If I had to guess I'd say she'll be found guilty, and based on documentaries -rightfully so.

 

[Sanchez]

[

It seems you are giving her the benefit of the doubt, a benefit I am in no mood to afford, it is possible for women to be sadistic monsters every bit as brutal as men. A female doesn't need to be swept up to go bad.

You are completely misreading what this person is saying. Based on this thread as well as past threads it is clear that these situations affect you. While some of us are fortunate to have avoided such experiences, we should be able to discuss matters and have opinions without the condescension. Be as angry as you wish, but don't berate others for not being as angry as you think they should.

 

[soccerdad72]

Such a monster, can't even stomach the name but the trial is finally here and going to try to find it recorded somewhere on YouTube and hope I don't get sick, triggers a certain sort of seething something nameless...

For the record, she is as much responsible as the men by fishing for vulnerable kids IMO.

I don't disagree with your assessment, but I do have to wonder why you would seek to watch the trial if you think it might make you sick. I would generally advise avoiding anything that might cause distress.