GAC Useless in Somecases!!!!

[wtlivesey]

Bookworkde:


Thank you very much for putting into words what I guess I couldn't. Your comments hit it exactly on the head what I was trying to say. My wife did not get the GAC with the intention of "cutting in lines", it was mearly a way, she thought of making her day easier. Others are right some of the rides don't have secondary entrances, I know for a fact that SpaceShip Earth does have a very small waiting area at the exit of the ride, thats why there are times that the ride stops, it allows those with disablitlies to use this entrance, and as I mentioned previously the Speedway in the Magic Kingdom, but none of that was why I even started this subject, I am was only trying to let others know of possible troubles they may have using the GAC. Again I'm glad someone else here understands where I am coming from in this and seeing the difficulties we've had. Again I have the utmost respect for those that battle their diseases on the a daily basis, as I've told my wife numerous times since she was diagnosed that I don't know if I would have the courage she has had over the past few months to deal with all the unknown she has. So for those of you that understand what I've tried to say with my original post, again for those that I might have offended I am truely sorry.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Accommodations are supposed to allow the disabled person to participate to the greatest extent practical with the minimum of modification to their “normal life”.

It is my opinion that in cases like this Disney falls short of that goal. Just because they have rules and policies does not make them the best ones.

If a wheel chair is not part of your wife’s everyday life and she does not want to use one and there is another practical accommodation it should not be Disney’s place to make that decision for you.

Waiting in a separate place as other special needs people do and entering the “line” at the equivalent time frame should be an option.

If Disney really has a policy that the only accommodation they will offer in these situation is a mobility device then they need to rethink the policy (both from a moral, legal and obviously a financial basis).

However, the situation at WDW is that almost all attraction queues are "mainstreamed". This means that a person with a mobility and/or stamina issue may remain in the queue, just as a person without such issue, all the way to the boarding or seating area. The only requirement is that they have a choice of standing/walking or using an approved medical device (wheelchair or EVC) and sitting. There are actually very few attractions that have an alternate entrance. Those with alternate entrances are primarily in the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

But, without a wheelchair, for example, a person with a mobility or stamina issue would find it almost impossible to get on Soarin' or the Safari or Space Mountain as the entrance and exit are both very long and there is no other access. (And, as a CM, I know that access to them from backstage is also very difficult.)

The question is, since Disney has made accommodation for people with mobility/stamina issues, if a person does not want to accept the accommodations which were offered must the provider (Disney) spend additional money to accommodate this person?

 

[disneynutz]

This is my first post, but I felt compelled to express some trouble we had recently with the GAC card on our visit to the World in late Feb, early March of 08. My wife was diagnosed with MS in Sept of 07 and this was our first trip to Disney since her diagnois, we are huge fans and were married there in 99. We are a young couple in our mid-thirties, so to look at my wife she doesn't look sick at all. Her issues with MS are fatigue from stading too long and heat.

Your wife is in our prayers. I have had mixed success with a GAC and a ECV. Like your wife, I refused to be different. My thoughts changed after I realized that I was keeping my family from enjoying WDW because they were worried about me.

Sometimes the GAC helps and other times the ECV works better. I have found that the CMs are the reason. Some understand disabilities, others could care less. My illness and how people react has really been a learning experience for me and I am sure that it is the same for your wife.

Next vacation ask her to rent a ECV, they really do help.

 

[goofieslonglostsis]

The question is, since Disney has made accommodation for people with mobility/stamina issues, if a person does not want to accept the accommodations which were offered must the provider (Disney) spend additional money to accommodate this person?

To be honest? My personal answer to that question would be no. Sometimes there is a place and time to draw the line. If they invest more money in making WDW even more accessible, let them invest it first of all to accomodate needs of those that aren't met at the moment. Stamina and mobilty issues are being met in about 98% at the moment allready. I couldn't 'face' any person knowing that I might have 2 options with my mobility and stamina problems, but that mom with the kids wit albinism has none for the same ride.

 

[Piper]

However, the situation at WDW is that almost all attraction queues are "mainstreamed". This means that a person with a mobility and/or stamina issue may remain in the queue, just as a person without such issue, all the way to the boarding or seating area. The only requirement is that they have a choice of standing/walking or using an approved medical device (wheelchair or EVC) and sitting. There are actually very few attractions that have an alternate entrance. Those with alternate entrances are primarily in the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

But, without a wheelchair, for example, a person with a mobility or stamina issue would find it almost impossible to get on Soarin' or the Safari or Space Mountain as the entrance and exit are both very long and there is no other access. (And, as a CM, I know that access to them from backstage is also very difficult.)

The question is, since Disney has made accommodation for people with mobility/stamina issues, if a person does not want to accept the accommodations which were offered must the provider (Disney) spend additional money to accommodate this person?

No, I don't think so. Even "typical" people without the types of challenges we face have to make adjustments. It's part of life. The adjustments we make are not always the ones we want to make and we make more of them than most. I don't feel that I am entitled to say, "No, I don't want to be accommodated in that particular way." As long as my needs are being met, I'm thrilled----especially since they are not met in so many places.

 

[bookwormde]

I do not think I ever said that Disney should create a new “class” of accommodation, just let people such as the OP make the choice of existing accommodations instead of Disney mandating it. I know that many attractions do not have an ideal situation, but I have always been amazed at how in the majority of cases the staff does a great job of accommodating with what they have.

Yes this may make some attractions less available than with a mobility device but in some cases it will make it more available. It should just be the individual’s decision of what existing accommodations are used.

bookwormde

 

[dclfun]

Disney follows the ADA when it comes to accommodating special needs. They do NOT however, have to allow each and every person to make their own decision about how their needs should be accommodated. For someone with mobility and stamina issues, then renting a w/c is Disney's solution and I personally agree with that. Most people don't know what they're getting into with stamina issues at a huge theme park. Why should someone get a choice of using a w/c vs bypassing lines and preshows with a GAC, even if they aren't "abusing" a GAC. A GAC isn't meant to give someone a choice of how to experience Disney- it is meant to allow someone whose needs aren't met by renting a w/c to have equal accommodations. Those of us who travel in wheelchairs know that Disney is one of the best places to go where our needs are met. I really do feel for the OP to not have understood and to have read incorrect information that a GAC could be used as a choice vs. a w/c for endurance and stamina issues. For someone who is newly diagnosed it takes awhile to get out of the denial/shock/grieving stage and to have to face your disability head-on during a much-anticipated vacation must have been horrible.---Kathy

 

[Matt'sMom]

I mean the whole point of the card was so that my wife wouldn't need a wheelchair

I am sorry that the OP misunderstood what the GAC is intended for, and did not enjoy their WDW vacation as much because of that. But I think that the above statement pretty well sums up the issue here.

The GAC is intended to provide assistance to those guests whose needs can not otherwise be met (such as by the use of a W/C or ECV, fastpass, etc.)--it is not meant to replace the use of a W/C, for mobility & stamina limitations.

Sometimes, if we want to enjoy certain attractions at WDW, we need to accept the accomidations that will allow us to do so. If we refuse to use an available W/C (that would allow one to sit comfortably rather than stand while in the POTC queue, for example), then we have to accept that our choice may mean skipping that attraction entirely. The important point being that most of us do have a reasonable choice/option available at the vast majority of attractions.

 

[HopperFan]

Matt'sMom, I interpreted this the same way. A w/c would have handled the problem, the GAC is not meant to eliminate that need.

As far as the two attractions the OP seemed to have the biggest problem with.....I believe they handled it properly. I don't see that these were problems with the GAC, but maybe the OP was not understanding that these were the quickest and most comfortable routes to take to ride.

As POC, they sent you to the waiting area for those with a GAC. No, there is no one stationed there. The folks with GACs will sit on the walls and wait. At a point when there is a group a CM will come out the gate and get everyone taking them in the back route. I've waited as long as 20-25 minutes here. This is still walking around the back of building, up a ramp area in the door to join in at the end of a line where you still stand. If the CMs told you out front that the que was only 10 minutes, not only would you not have to wait out in the sun for longer but you probably would have walked less distance in a/c than had you used the GAC.

At HM, first you enter the regular line and then at a gate you exit the covering to stand outside at another gate waiting on an available CM. You are out in the sun, there is NO where to sit, as they assume if you can't stand you are in a chair. Again you may wait 15-20 minutes. Then they will move you forward and sometimes you wait again just under the exit covering. The line at HM moves quickly, is covered and would be less idle standing than waiting for handicap access.

I am not surprised the CMs offered you the quickest route to the ride.

 

[KPeveler]

i did just fine in my wheelchair in disney last time... however, i would much prefer to walk. can i get a GAC because I do not want to use a wheelchair and not stand in lines because i get tired easily?

I think the battle disney faces is that of "want" versus "need." A person "needs" a way of making it to the ride. However, they may not "want" to use a wheelchair... and i think that is the difference between the "need" Disney MUST accomodate, and the "want" they try to, but don't have to.

 

[livndisney]

i did just fine in my wheelchair in disney last time... however, i would much prefer to walk. can i get a GAC because I do not want to use a wheelchair and not stand in lines because i get tired easily?

I think the battle disney faces is that of "want" versus "need." A person "needs" a way of making it to the ride. However, they may not "want" to use a wheelchair... and i think that is the difference between the "need" Disney MUST accomodate, and the "want" they try to, but don't have to.

I think this sums it up nicely. If I choose to not use a wheelchair/ECV, I don't feel it is up to Disney to provide me with a fast track to a ride just so I don't have to stand.

Of course I would not mind if WDW shaded the Dumbo ride so I could ride it again

 

[bookwormde]

Not to be argumentative but Disney (like most facilities) is only partially compliant and uses the grandfather clause in the statue to fully implementing the intent. They are in clear violation in other areas.

As to the above opinions that Disney has the right to choose for the individual the exiting accommodations be used I quote the following (pulled out my ADA resource guide from AIA).

From public law 101-336 July 26, 1990

Title III, sec. 320 2 specific prohibitions (A) discriminations (i)

“The imposition of eligibility criteria that screen or tend to screen out an individual with a disability or any class of individuals with disabilities from fully and equally enjoying any goods, service, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations unless such criteria can be shown to be necessary for the provision of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantage or accommodations being offered.”

I have done design build for commercial clients for 25 years so I have a little familiarity.

This is only on of many sections that show this intent. If GAC did not exist for other disabilities then thy might have a leg to stand on but since it does then they do not. Yes I do know that in this case the OP’s wife might not yet meet the standard for a “disabled” individual but others who do would are impacted.


Again Disney is closer to meeting the requirements of ADA than any other park owner but there is still much more that they could and should be doing, much of it just requires the proper mindset not extensive changes and expense (GAC system is a good example of an innovative solution at minimal cost) I have done this for clients for years it is not that hard to do

bookwormde

 

[benjackal]

Hello,

So sorry you experienced frustration with your trip.

We returned recently and had a GAC card for our two children that have cerebral palsy - they are able to walk and are not in a wheelchair.
Although, we appreciated the accommodations made by Disney most of the time, we also had trouble at times. It was hard for a CM to really see that our kids had trouble unless they saw them walk up to the ride. Often, we would show our card to the CM at the front, but the person loading the ride often was not aware that we required more time for boarding (especially the "moving" sidewalk boarding rides). Often we were shuffled in, and our kids are small enough (they are 8) that my husband and I were able to scoop them up and put them inside the car. Once they are bigger, this will not work (for me anyway). I was somewhat disappointed that there is no communication between the CMs at the door and the CMs loading.

Overall, things worked well, but Kali River Rapids was a nightmare, there was absolutely no line up, and the very rude CM barked at us to get in the car/boat that she was presently loading. She had no idea we had a GAC (the CM 5 feet from her did) - and we had no idea how to get on this ride. Well, after getting all the kids in and helping them buckle up, she was screaming at me to sit down as the ride was almost leaving. I BARELY got my belt done up before we were plunging down! I was sweating from the stress. She literally gave us less than 60 seconds to load 3 kids (2 with CP), and get them and ourselves buckled in. It was crazy as she could have loaded us in the next car, seeing as there was no one behind us, instead of having us hop in at the last minute. Now that we've been once, we know better which rides require more time loading and will definitely be more vocal!

We also did the alternate entrance for Pirates. We waited longer than the stand by line for a CM to come but we were told it would be a while, and we just appreciated the chance for our kids to sit on a bench to wait.

That's just our experience!

 

[Cheshire Figment]

As to the above opinions that Disney has the right to choose for the individual the exiting accommodations be used I quote the following (pulled out my ADA resource guide from AIA).

I have done design build for commercial clients for 25 years so I have a little familiarity.

This is only on of many sections that show this intent. If GAC did not exist for other disabilities then thy might have a leg to stand on but since it does then they do not. Yes I do know that in this case the OP’s wife might not yet meet the standard for a “disabled” individual but others who do would are impacted.

I am sorry. Again, as others have stated, Disney has several ways they accommodate disabilities. The method for people with mobility and/or stamina is making wheelchairs and ECVs available.

I have a question for you. If your office is on the 25th floor of a building, and I have severe claustrophobia and cannot use an elevator, how can I get to your office? (And, BTW, the fire stairs are designed that they can be entered at any floor but the only way to exit them is at ground level to the outside, and there is no way to enter the fire stairs from the outside.)

 

[Mrsjvb]

ADA requires accommodations to be made. Disney has chosen to do so. Just because you don't particularly care for the type they chose doesn't make Disney in error or failing in any way.

the OP's problem was standing for long periods of time. Disney's response to that is : get a WC or ECV, simple, straightforward and logical. It is not Disney's(or any body else's ) responsibility if the person chooses not to avail themselves of the offer.

We all must be responsible for our choices. If you choose to not take advantage of the perfectly adequate alternatives that Disney has, then that's entirely on you.

I for one have learned that next time, I will rent from off site in order to be able to take my WC outside the park gates. I decided that the courtesy chairs that were availble to use to get to the TTC or Monorail were not something I wanted to use again. (bad experience with a wheel that fell off as we were making our way to the monorail)

 

[bookwormde]

Yes I agree Disney has decided to discriminate between classes of disabilities an as such has not made certain accommodation available to certain groups. It’s there I black an white in the statute let alone the administrative rulings. That is a clear violation of ADA

As to the specific scenario, claustrophobia is would not qualify under ADA. If it is an employee (title I) who is disabled then the employer must make reasonable accommodations (making the work are readily accessible or restructuring the job or work environment etc). There are exemptions for “undue hardships” in accommodating an individual.

I will not type it out here but title III section 303 is very clear in what the commercial venture must do.


bookwormde

 

[Notatourist]

Yes I agree Disney has decided to discriminate between classes of disabilities an as such has not made certain accommodation available to certain groups. It’s there I black an white in the statute let alone the administrative rulings. That is a clear violation of ADA

bookwormde

But, how is it violating the ADA? The ADA ruling is to make the attractions accesible. Disney can get away with not redesigning the cue areas since it was built pre-ruling, but, they have complied with making areas and setting plans for folks with needs to access the attractions. There is no violation. To improve the OP's access, they suggested the chair option, since "under the law" their compliance was varied at each attraction and her experience would be better if she was in a chair.

It's all about the access. Chesire brought up a great point about claustrophobia. Is that why there are more glass elevators out there? Never thought of that.

 

[bookwormde]

Notatourist,

It is in black and white in the section I quoted from title III. You may not think it is needed or makes sense but it is part of the regulation.

There are also some attractions which do not have any separate waiting areas (formal or otherwise) Even ones where the "access area" has been modified since 1992 (added extra lines or reconfigured the lines)

Bookwormde

 

[mechurchlady]

I been reading lots of posts and opinions. I will be wrong to many but here goes.

The Wild Animal Park does not have to give free admissions to companions. SeaWorld does not have to provide companion bathrooms. Disney restaurants do not have to puree guests' food. These are perks given to disabled people beyond what the law requires.

I know that when I go out to eat that the restaurant does not have to have food that I can eat. It was nice last night having a ramp to get inside the restaurant because i was a bit stiff kneed and it was nice that the restaurant served me a chicken, ribs, taters, corn, and salad dinner that was GF free. It was nice that they opened the leaf on the table so we had more room and the seats were able to hold a 500 pound person.

I know my limitations and plan accordingly. Even in the ADA era there are rides that people cannot go on. I always wanted to go on the stinger type rides at DLR and Knotts but am too fat. My neighbor and a cousin have big chest so they cannot go on the Maliboomer for example. I could no longer hardly make it up Tarzan's Treehouse. I got stuck on a carrousel pony which stopped at the very top.

I know that I must read everything before planning a trip even to a restaurant. I know that I cannot expect everything to be assessible or right for me. I know that if I ride Dinosaur or Indy Jones that I will be in screaming pain possibly. I know that I can run and waddle fast but use an ECV because the lines are murder. I know about them spells I have where next second I am walking into a tree.

I feel Disney has gone out of its way to make the parks assessible. There are things that could be changed and there are problems. The answer is to immediately ask for a lead or manager if the problem is something serious. The answer is writing letters and posting information on boards so that people know ahead of time possible problems.

I believe the person in the original post knew she had major health problem that included the inability to stand for long periods of time. She should have gotten the wheelchair and then if she was in a long line she could set. It is not Disney's fault she chose to stand in the long lines while knowing she could not.

As for Pirates, at Disneyland you often can walk down a bit then up a circular ramp and into the cool building. The disabled entrance requires walking to the rear of the building the through a narrow passageway and then through the exit to the unloading dock. Mind you that you may run into ECVs, Strollers, and Wheelchairs as well as mobs of guests storming off the ride. Try taking a service dog or ECV into the exit and you better be ready for mob mentality, pushing, shoving, and getting your toes crunched.

 

[merryweather20]

Notatourist,

It is in black and white in the section I quoted from title III. You may not think it is needed or makes sense but it is part of the regulation.

There are also some attractions which do not have any separate waiting areas (formal or otherwise) Even ones where the "access area" has been modified since 1992 (added extra lines or reconfigured the lines)

Bookwormde

I'm just not seeing how the section you quoted spells out black and white support for your position. In this case there were no eligibility requirements for obtaining the Op's DW's GAC or to use a wheel-chair in the park. The party chose not to use a wheel-chair which was Disney's accommodation for stamina issues when waiting in line. The next party that came in with a wheel-chair would be able to see the attraction.