ECV Accidernt at MK

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

May I ask the last time you were at WDW to make such a statement?

Where you there last week when they were conducting transportation surveys? Or this morning/weekend when they continued to ask questions?

Have you spoken with any Transportation managers who are currently looking into some of the disabled complaints? Have you had conversations with GS management about some pending access changes in the parks?

Or do you just "know".[/QUOTE]

Why does all this info mater. I just get sick and tired of reading all these post about people wining that they want "equal" access and then when they get it they turn a round and say no we want have a different type of access then everyone else because we are different. How is it equal access for someone to pull up in a wheelchair and get on a bus before people who have been waiting for 20 or 30 minutes before the person in the wheelchair pulled up.

Trust me, I am well aware of the opinion many CM's at WDW have of these internet message boards. I think their opinion(perhaps rightly so considering) comes from ill informed "know it alls" who post on subjects they have little or no knowledge of.

Again why does that make any differences just because Cast Members don't like the Dis boards doesn't mean that corporate reads them or cares what people say on them. And they are the ones who make the rules not the front of the line CMS.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

I think you need to pick a side-first you said Disney is NOT like a bus system in a big city and now you say it is.

Why is Disney any different them and I never said that they are not. WDW has the full rights of any city in the US and run WDW Transportation just like any other city runs there buses.

Either way, it is clear you are not able to understand the point(s) being made. Disney must comply with the ADA. Just because there is no headline today-does not mean there is not an issue. In truth, I would hope Disney would listen to its guests (as it has in the past) and work with them to not have to have a suit filed against them. For years Disney has been known as a good place for those with disablities to vacation. They do usually provide "good" service. Some recent changes have made it a little more challenging, but hopefully those challenges will be corrected soon.

You may want to read a bit to help you understand the ADA and what it covers.

In the mean time, Have a Disney Day!

When have I said that they are not complying with the ADA.It seams like everyone here seam to think they aren't because they want Disney to play by different rules then everyone else because it's a theme park.

Oh and by the way "Have a Magical Day!!!"

 

[livndisney]

May I ask the last time you were at WDW to make such a statement?

Where you there last week when they were conducting transportation surveys? Or this morning/weekend when they continued to ask questions?

Have you spoken with any Transportation managers who are currently looking into some of the disabled complaints? Have you had conversations with GS management about some pending access changes in the parks?

Or do you just "know".

Why does all this info mater. I just get sick and tired of reading all these post about people wining that they want "equal" access and then when they get it they turn a round and say no we want have a different type of access then everyone else because we are different. How is it equal access for someone to pull up in a wheelchair and get on a bus before people who have been waiting for 20 or 30 minutes before the person in the wheelchair pulled up.



Again why does that make any differences just because Cast Members don't like the Dis boards doesn't mean that corporate reads them or cares what people say on them. And they are the ones who make the rules not the front of the line CMS.[/QUOTE]

It matters because if you took the time to actually read you will see people are not complaining about not getting special treatment. People are commenting about having to wait for two or three buses, when people who arrive AFTER them get on the first bus.

No matter how you try and twist words, THAT is not equal. Once again I refer you back to my original "equal" example.

If you are "sick and tired" of reading threads where you feel people are complaining-don't read them.

And thank you, I WILL have a Magical Day.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

It matters because if you took the time to actually read you will see people are not complaining about not getting special treatment. People are commenting about having to wait for two or three buses, when people who arrive AFTER them get on the first bus.

No matter how you try and twist words, THAT is not equal. Once again I refer you back to my original "equal" example.

If you are "sick and tired" of reading threads where you feel people are complaining-don't read them.

And thank you, I WILL have a Magical Day.

I have been reading this and yes I get that people are complaining about having to wait for 2 or 3 buses, what about the able bodied people are we not allowed to complain that we also have top wait for 2 or 3 buses too, or is it because we are not disabled we can't say something?

Trust me there are far worse places you could be then WDW and be in a wheelchair. Think about it every bus is more or less depending on capacity accessible to them. They can ride the monorail, the boats, the trams and everything else that someone else can.

Here in Toronto right now that is not the case, a lot of our subway stations can only be accessed by stairs, all of the street cars can only be accessed by stairs, but that will be changing next year as we have low flour ones coming in, and up until about a month ago all but one bus was inaccessible.

So compared to some place is waiting 2 or 3 buses all that bad?

 

[GrammyJudy]

I think it is time to use a pass (call it Gac or any name you want) for the buses. This will resolve UPFRONT the number of people allowed on the bus and make allowances for alternate bus entrance.

At resort check in you will inform Disney of your special transportation needs. For the sake of this thread, I will focus on tiedown spots on the bus but it could also be used for other special loading circumstances.

Disney then can determine the number of people in the party and discuss allowable party limits based on REASONABLE family NEEDS. It will be easier for a large group to be told they will have to split up up at this point, rather than when standing in a bus line *.
( A party of 6 kids and one adult will have different reasonable needs than a party of 6 adults and one child. A flat number system is not in the best interest of anyone.)

Once a transportation pass system is put in effect, Disney should go back to the alternate bus line entrance method . This is really no different than a GAC guest using an alternate ride entrance. It will be a more efficient use of the tiedown spots on the bus than the current "new mainstream line" allows. Again, if Disney can allow alternate ride access, they should have no problem with allowing alternate bus line access. They just need to make reasonable limits on the number loading.

This will take some pressure off of the bus driver. The driver would not have to argue about limits as the transportation pass/GAC will be clearly marked to the number allowed on the bus.

* If a group is not happy with the # of people allowed on the transportation GAC, they are are welcomed to mainstream through the line and be transported together as space is available. ( stand by line)

Efficient use of bus space, reasonable enforced limits on travel companions and even a system for Disney to better monitor the number of passengers in need of tiedown spots.

This is a very reasonable idea! Sorry I opened such a pandora's box on the subject.......just wanted to warn everyone about what happened to me.

 

[livndisney]

This is a very reasonable idea! Sorry I opened such a pandora's box on the subject.......just wanted to warn everyone about what happened to me.

No Worries! You have every right to express a real concern that should be addressed.

 

[Talking Hands]

What point am I mussing yes I agree it may not be fair but when ids life always fair to everyone.
It's the same thing when they double load a bus at he end of the night at the parks. Yes it sucks for the people that need to use the back door and they will have to wait for another bus to come up if they can't get on the first one. But which would you rather having to wait 4 hour in line for a bus at the end of the night with people who are hot a tired or only have to wait two hours. Given the choice I would prefer to only have to wait two.

Unfortunately it will be the person in the wheelchair waiting the 4 hours while those who are not in a wheelchair are back at their resort and sound asleep. Not quite as extreme but happen to me at DTD after going to Pleasure Island. Ended up waiting over 3 hours for an accessible bus, mostly alone in the dark. Finally a relief drivers forced the issue with guests already on the bus and was able to load me. Btw this was December so it was also quite cold.

 

[disney david]

I think you need to pick a side-first you said Disney is NOT like a bus system in a big city and now you say it is.

Either way, it is clear you are not able to understand the point(s) being made. Disney must comply with the ADA. Just because there is no headline today-does not mean there is not an issue. In truth, I would hope Disney would listen to its guests (as it has in the past) and work with them to not have to have a suit filed against them. For years Disney has been known as a good place for those with disablities to vacation. They do usually provide "good" service. Some recent changes have made it a little more challenging, but hopefully those challenges will be corrected soon.

You may want to read a bit to help you understand the ADA and what it covers.

In the mean time, Have a Disney Day!

I know we had or problems and i am guilty of it to but we all should be treating each other with respect. i know you will fight if you think their wrong info being posted. i am not saying you should correct someone may be they din't know and their not trying to make a mistake but coming at them rudely makes things worse. Their a difference in being rude and trying to pick a fight to get your point across then expressing your opinion with facts in a nice way. I know you will get people to understand you in both ways but one way makes you look bad and really no call for it. i am not perfect i got into it with you because you thought i said something when i didn't just misunderstood what i was saying. Again i don't have the best grammar or spelling so i might have made it sound wrong. so instead of it being a little thing but it turned into a bigger thing because we both didn't want to admit we was wrong and we both said things we shouldn't have. I need to learn to let things go and not respond to everything and handle it in different ways. And i need to learn not to write such big post that hard to follow that what i going to work on.

 

[livndisney]

I know we had or problems and i am guilty of it to but we all should be treating each other with respect. i know you will fight if you think their wrong info being posted. i am not saying you should correct someone may be they din't know and their not trying to make a mistake but coming at them rudely makes things worse. Their a difference in being rude and trying to pick a fight to get your point across then expressing your opinion with facts in a nice way. I know you will get people to understand you in both ways but one way makes you look bad and really no call for it. i am not perfect i got into it with you because you thought i said something when i didn't just misunderstood what i was saying. Again i don't have the best grammar or spelling so i might have made it sound wrong. so instead of it being a little thing but it turned into a bigger thing because we both didn't want to admit we was wrong and we both said things we shouldn't have. I need to learn to let things go and not respond to everything and handle it in different ways. And i need to learn not to write such big post that hard to follow that what i going to work on.

I am sorry if you felt I was "rude" to another poster. I don't see how advising them to gain knowledge could be considered rude, but you have a right to your opinion.

As far as the rest of it, I don't have a problem with you. If I don't agree with you, I don't agree with you. If I see mis information posted, I will comment.

To my knowledge these boards are designed to share information. That is what I try to do. If my posts bother you, you can ignore me. I know I find some threads to be much more enjoyable after I have used the "ignore" feature.

 

[disney david]

I am sorry if you felt I was "rude" to another poster. I don't see how advising them to gain knowledge could be considered rude, but you have a right to your opinion.

As far as the rest of it, I don't have a problem with you. If I don't agree with you, I don't agree with you. If I see mis information posted, I will comment.

To my knowledge these boards are designed to share information. That is what I try to do. If my posts bother you, you can ignore me. I know I find some threads to be much more enjoyable after I have used the "ignore" feature.

your right you have the right to comment on any thing you like not trying to take that a way. i not saying you have to agree with me or any one on everything. you are entitled to your opinion just like i am and every other diser is and if we are wrong your right it needs to be corrected but it can be in a nice way.

Your right these boards are for sharing info and concerns about your experience at disney or other places. your post don't bother me i think you have lots of knowledge that helps a lot of people. i shouldn't of just quoted you i meant the other poster to as well. I said we all including me should treat each other with respect.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

Unfortunately it will be the person in the wheelchair waiting the 4 hours while those who are not in a wheelchair are back at their resort and sound asleep. Not quite as extreme but happen to me at DTD after going to Pleasure Island. Ended up waiting over 3 hours for an accessible bus, mostly alone in the dark. Finally a relief drivers forced the issue with guests already on the bus and was able to load me. Btw this was December so it was also quite cold.

I sorry that happened to you and I would not wish that to happen to anyone.

I personally have no problem with someone in Wheelchair or ECV boding a bus ahead of me when it's possible for them to board it. However if a bus is full of people sitting and standing but there are no Wheelchairs/ ECV on board would you want the drive to empty an entire bus of people at one stop so one person can get on, how fair is that to the people on the bus.

As to the way they are doing it now I agree with everyone posting they do need to change it back and have Wheelchairs/ ECV in a separate Que but they should put a limit on the number of people who can board with each one, for example maybe no more then a party of 6 plus the Wheelchair/ECV.


Oh and incase it really maters to anyone my last trip to WDW was in 2009.

 

[livndisney]

I sorry that happened to you and I would not wish that to happen to anyone.

I personally have no problem with someone in Wheelchair or ECV boding a bus ahead of me when it's possible for them to board it. However if a bus is full of people sitting and standing but there are no Wheelchairs/ ECV on board would you want the drive to empty an entire bus of people at one stop so one person can get on, how fair is that to the people on the bus.

As to the way they are doing it now I agree with everyone posting they do need to change it back and have Wheelchairs/ ECV in a separate Que but they should put a limit on the number of people who can board with each one, for example maybe no more then a party of 6 plus the Wheelchair/ECV.


Oh and incase it really maters to anyone my last trip to WDW was in 2009.

For what it is worth, this is a policy. There are even signs at several resorts stating that no more than 6 (5 plus the person in the wheelchair) may board at the back of the bus. The problem comes with "enforcement". Some drivers don't enforce the policy- some try and get ignored.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

For what it is worth, this is a policy. There are even signs at several resorts stating that no more than 6 (5 plus the person in the wheelchair) may board at the back of the bus. The problem comes with "enforcement". Some drivers don't enforce the policy- some try and get ignored.

Well they should enforce it, maybe the lack of enforcement is why they tried the new system that has been talked about as away of keeping all parties together. The main problem I see with it is the bus ques were not designed with them in mind.

 

[disney david]

Well they should enforce it, maybe the lack of enforcement is why they tried the new system that has been talked about as away of keeping all parties together. The main problem I see with it is the bus ques were not designed with them in mind.

according the a disney driver who is also a disboards member but dose not post in this forum. say if guest give them a hard time with or dose not listen about the six guest they are supposed to call their manager to the scene and have them explain the policy. which holds up the bus for every body so that may be why some drivers will not enforce it.

your right the park ques was not designed for this policy in mind it works better at the resorts because their no que. the only problem their is enforce the number of guest through the back door.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I sorry that happened to you and I would not wish that to happen to anyone.
but they should put a limit on the number of people who can board with each one, for example maybe no more then a party of 6 plus the Wheelchair/ECV.
Oh and incase it really maters to anyone my last trip to WDW was in 2009.

Please tell me, how do I decide...which children to leave behind? Maybe, my DMIL who has dementia or my brother with Down Syndrome? Should we be penalized for not having "the average" family? We're over-the-limit and handicapped... We should split up or just stay home?

Unfortunately it will be the person in the wheelchair waiting the 4 hours while those who are not in a wheelchair are back at their resort and sound asleep. Not quite as extreme but happen to me at DTD after going to Pleasure Island. Ended up waiting over 3 hours for an accessible bus, mostly alone in the dark. Finally a relief drivers forced the issue with guests already on the bus and was able to load me. Btw this was December so it was also quite cold.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I think separate but equal has been declared unconstitutional because once its separate it's not equal

I didn't mean harm by this post, it was a thought to get more onto the bus at one time.. if separate is not equal, then maybe all need to adhere to one line period.. after all, then no one is separated by anything... No holding area for wheelchairs and ECV's, that is being separated from the standard line. Maybe that is why Disney is starting to have them go thru the standard bus line

Again, I didn't mean any harm by my thoughts of a para transit bus.. I know if I had a choice (if I were in a wheelchair), I would rather a para transit bus coming for me, knowing I was going to get on it then to be "equal" and have to wait for several standard buses to go by before one comes along that can get me on it... Sometimes logic comes over the principle.. at least for me it does...

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Ah jolly, getting seperated just because you happen to have some wheels beneath your bum. As already explained; seperation can never be equality.



I happen to reside in a country where we have a seperated transportation system. Once in an oddball day you'll find one oddball "accessible" bus. Trains are supposed to be "accessible" after you first need to ring in you travel at least 24 hours prior to travel (and hope they show up, as no help is not getting on the train). Because of that inaccessible system we have so called "accessible transportation". Compare it to paratransit. Result? Not only is said system known for it's unbelievably high numbers of regulation violation (regularly resulting in life threatening situations or at best simply not get your transportation) it has it's result on the general public transportation. You will not believe the comments, looks and opinions to those that even "dare" to use the oddball acessible public transportation options. Because the common conclusion is that there is paratransit (not knowing anything about what that means in practice), the shortsightedness and aggressive behaviour only has become worse. It makes the regular wheelchair-on-bus-not-during-my-disney-trip on this board a pure picknick.

Result? By far most of those qualifying for the paratransit system and relying on it have had to make the decision not to use them. Unsafe, unreliable, not working at all. Nor will they use "accessible" public transportation. Too few options, too high a risk of mistakes and even higher risk of getting refused because of huge chips on shoulders of those going "not in my backyard, I do not want to be "bothered" by anybody else" followed by a "they should have their own transportation".

Not that this is surprising, it's the same sentiment we've already seen displayed time and again when this subject gets mentioned on the regular DISboard again. It's called human behaviour and an out of control entitlement problem that is rapidly becoming the norm of our day in time. Me, me, me, god have mercy with those that even dare to be a "bother" to anyone.

I am sorry your area has had bad experiences with para transit buses.. if they are done properly there shouldn't be that many problems. I know doing this does "separate" those from the standard bus, but again, doesn't the boxed waiting area separate one too

I didn't mean to sound horrible, I thought it was a way to get more wheelchair's & ECV's on a bus at one time...and save them the agony of waiting for several buses to go by before they can be boarded onto a standard bus.. in a case like this, I would rather be separated than equal if it gets me on the bus sooner... sometimes principle doesn't make sense... do you see my point?

Yes, equal shouldn't mean a special bus. Then again, it should not mean one gets to the front of the line to board first while those who aren't in a chair must wait while they very well may have been there a good time longer waiting for the bus than the wheelchair party... that is not equal either... As I stated in my previous post, maybe that is why Disney is starting to have one line only.. for true "equality"...and not to separate anyone from the standard bus line..

I agree with your statement.. it is a me me me on everyone's part.. and a rapid out of control of entitlement.. I do very much agree with you! There seems to not be a happy medium on anyone's part... some don't want to budge in either direction....

Me personally, I prefer using a car than the bus. My days of the bus are long gone.. I cannot deal with the long lines at the end of the night. I know that is just not possible for all though. Lately, I haven't even been staying to the end of the night unless I have someone with me to drive my car due to my deminishing night vision.

 

[dclfun]

I am sorry your area has had bad experiences with para transit buses.. if they are done properly there shouldn't be that many problems. I know doing this does "separate" those from the standard bus, but again, doesn't the boxed waiting area separate one too

I didn't mean to sound horrible, I thought it was a way to get more wheelchair's & ECV's on a bus at one time...and save them the agony of waiting for several buses to go by before they can be boarded onto a standard bus.. in a case like this, I would rather be separated than equal if it gets me on the bus sooner... sometimes principle doesn't make sense... do you see my point?

Yes, equal shouldn't mean a special bus. Then again, it should not mean one gets to the front of the line to board first while those who aren't in a chair must wait while they very well may have been there a good time longer waiting for the bus than the wheelchair party... that is not equal either... As I stated in my previous post, maybe that is why Disney is starting to have one line only.. for true "equality"...and not to separate anyone from the standard bus line..

I refuse to go through the standard line with my power chair, ventilator and service dog. It's plain unsafe. I am courteous enough not to enter the w/c area if there is a long line waiting....long enough that I know I'd be waiting for a 2nd bus anyway. BUT if I get there first or when the line is 1/2 filled, you'd better believe I intend to board first, again for safety. I'm the last one off, so I'm the one waiting longer than anyone else to get back to my room and the least able to wait.

 

[BillSears]

I think the problem with "equal" is that equal going through the line does not mean equal with boarding the bus. I feel the old system worked out well for equal on the average. Sometimes in the old system you would board earlier than other, sometimes on the same bus and sometimes on later buses. But overall it averaged out to about equal. With the new system it can NEVER be equal. Sometimes wheelchairs will board on the same bus but often wheelchairs will board on a later bus.

It's not equal to wait through the normal line to then wait in a second line for a wheelchair spot to open up.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I refuse to go through the standard line with my power chair, ventilator and service dog. It's plain unsafe. I am courteous enough not to enter the w/c area if there is a long line waiting....long enough that I know I'd be waiting for a 2nd bus anyway. BUT if I get there first or when the line is 1/2 filled, you'd better believe I intend to board first, again for safety. I'm the last one off, so I'm the one waiting longer than anyone else to get back to my room and the least able to wait.

That is an excellent way to handle it.. unfortunately, most don't think as you do. They roll up, and get on.... I think that is what is causing the major problem with the remainder of the guests. As some on here have posted... equality is what they want, and that is what you are doing.. Some seem to confuse equality with preferential treatment to front of the line.. and that is not what equality is all about... You understand & you do it the right way.. God Bless you with all you have to endure