Do we really need instant election returns? (About voting, not politics.)

[sam_gordon]

(Emphasis mine.) I think this is a big part of the problem; in many jurisdictions they don't know how many votes were cast at that point, because there are still bins of absentee votes sitting in a mailroom somewhere. Until they know how many of those there are, AND that the people sending them in have not voted in person, they don't know the number of votes recorded.

They're going to have a pretty good idea of how many absentee votes they need to check. I'm guessing it's probably in the single digits percentage wise of total votes and doesn't really impact 99% of elections.

Also, I agree that the news process is pushing for immediacy, but if the government simply refuses to report, then the emperor's new clothes become apparent for what they are. Most people won't watch those "returns" if they KNOW that the only thing that the media has to go on is guesswork.

Well first, I think it's the law the government needs to report, so that would need to be changed. Second, even without vote totals, you'd still have exit polling (done by news organizations and campaigns).

In this electronic age, I find it amazing that it takes HOURS to calculate vote totals. Granted, you have to count absentee ballots turned in late, but shouldn't those be able to be scanned just like the ballots at the precincts? And @Poohforyou brings up a good point. Why does Florida have problems year after year after year? It's not like other states haven't figured out how to do this without major problems.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

It seems to me one of the reasons there’s a big gap between Election Day & Inauguration Day is for exactly this purpose - to get it right.

I do agree it’s important for every vote to be counted. OTOH, if Candidate X has a 300,000 vote lead with 150,000 votes left to count, I’m okay declaring the victory. But, I still think we should count those remaining votes and release the eventual results.

 

[tvguy]

It is just a symptom of valuing speed over accuracy. It isn't only elections but also news in general. If something happens, the Sandy Hook shooting is a great example, you don't need to report every unsubstantiated rumor as news. Just slow down and make sure you are accurate so you don't name a totally innocent person as the shooter in that example.

The news needs to stop reporting rumor as news. Until you can confirm it with multiple credible sources don't <expletive deleted> report it.
.

I agree. As someone who has worked in news for 43 years I am disappointed at the direction the industry is headed. Unfortunately, part of the problem is the audience will believe those unsubstantiated rumors on Facebook and Twitter and Reddit, and distrust us because we AREN'T reporting them.

As to elections, I think the process needs a revamp. We are bending over backwards to make it easier for people to vote, and all it seems to do is make it harder.

 

[manning]

One way to cut down on fraud is to time stamp cast ballots. when the polls close any ballot is cast after is not counted. The only exception any one in line is allowed to vote. Any late arrivals should not be counted. All votes should be preserved. When a court makes a ruling then the ballots in questioned can be identified and adjustments made.

In this day of technology this procedure could be developed

 

[kandb]

I think the whole country should be on the same kind of voting system and every voter should have to show ID at the polling station and if not at the polling stations, they should have to show it before they get a mail in ballot every year. It makes sense. People need to show their ID at the doctors office these days to keep them honest, so why should people not show ID to vote? Why are so many people against having to show ID??? It's very simple to show ID.

 

[Hikergirl]

Maybe the states that are having these issues should look to those who never do and do it the same way they do.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

It seems to me one of the reasons there’s a big gap between Election Day & Inauguration Day is for exactly this purpose - to get it right.

I do agree it’s important for every vote to be counted. OTOH, if Candidate X has a 300,000 vote lead with 150,000 votes left to count, I’m okay declaring the victory. But, I still think we should count those remaining votes and release the eventual results.

I think they should too. I have noticed California is adding votes to all its races as they come in. Even the ones that have long since been projected. It may take a full month for final results to be posted. Get it right is more important than get it fast. Ahh. I see US house 21 has just been unprojected due to votes coming in.
To be honest, I'm fine with it taking a month or so to finish up. And if networks get mad because they can't project a race or have to unproject it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over that.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Maybe the states that are having these issues should look to those who never do and do it the same way they do.

I'll fix California right now. We'll just end vote by mail, kick about 37 million people out of California and close the polls at 4pm pacific so that the east coast can see the final results in prime time, and Viola!!!! On second thought, I better let California run things in California.

There are lots of states other than Florida still counting. It's just not in the news because there are no close races in a lot of them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think the whole country should be on the same kind of voting system and every voter should have to show ID at the polling station and if not at the polling stations, they should have to show it before they get a mail in ballot every year. It makes sense. People need to show their ID at the doctors office these days to keep them honest, so why should people not show ID to vote? Why are so many people against having to show ID??? It's very simple to show ID.

Even living in a state with Voter ID laws and having zero issues with showing my ID voter ID laws are a completely different animal IMO than what is being discussed here.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There are lots of states other than Florida still counting.

I'm curious what "lots of states" you are talking about.

Most I could find was information from this evening saying FL, AZ, and GA. And as far as other races it's 9 House seats-3 in California, 1 in Georgia, 1 in Maine, 1 in New Jersey, 2 in New York and 1 in Utah.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I think they should too. I have noticed California is adding votes to all its races as they come in. Even the ones that have long since been projected. It may take a full month for final results to be posted. Get it right is more important than get it fast. Ahh. I see US house 21 has just been unprojected due to votes coming in.
To be honest, I'm fine with it taking a month or so to finish up. And if networks get mad because they can't project a race or have to unproject it, I'm not going to lose much sleep over that.

Yup, not going to give the presidency to Dewey just so we can get the headlines out early.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The only exception any one in line is allowed to vote. Any late arrivals should not be counted.

Granted I've never been to the polls when they've closed but here the polls closed at 7pm and as long as you were in line by 7pm you could vote. There are states that already have these laws but I honestly don't have first hand experience on how they deal with it in terms of getting to the polls when it's about to close and cut off points in the line.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'll fix California right now. We'll just end vote by mail, kick about 37 million people out of California and close the polls at 4pm pacific so that the east coast can see the final results in prime time, and Viola!!!! On second thought, I better let California run things in California.

There are lots of states other than Florida still counting. It's just not in the news because there are no close races in a lot of them.

So what, there are plenty of states who manage their election procedures quite well.
I guess you don't live in one since you seem to be taking things a little to seriously.

 

[mnrose]

I think the whole country should be on the same kind of voting system and every voter should have to show ID at the polling station and if not at the polling stations, they should have to show it before they get a mail in ballot every year. It makes sense. People need to show their ID at the doctors office these days to keep them honest, so why should people not show ID to vote? Why are so many people against having to show ID??? It's very simple to show ID.

It's "simple" to show ID if you have the economic means to get to the place that issues them, and then the means to pay for it when you've done that. Your assertion that it is "simple" comes from a position of privilege. I'll also note that students (college I mean) have a difficult time producting an ID (driver's license) that shows they "live" in the precinct where they are voting. When I was in college, I voted in the town I went to college in. My driver's license never matched where I lived because I moved every 6-9 months to a new address. Getting a new license every time I moved would have been ridiculous, and an expense that I could not have handled on my student's budget. It wasn't until I was out of law schools (25 years old) that I consistently had a license that matched my residence address.

That being said, I agree that MOST people have a simple time getting an ID, but most is not all.

I do think we need to think outside the box to make our elections secure. I'm curious what "issues" have arisen in Oregon which has gone to all mailed ballots.

Minnesota does a pretty decent job with voting, and we use scanned paper ballots, with "no excuse necessary" absentee ballots. Our ballots were largely all counted by the next morning....indeed, mainly by 10 at night. My name was on the ballot for a local race, and I knew results (with 100% counted) before 10. My town is about 10,000 people, with about 4000 voters in this cycle. The absentee ballots are counted as of close of business (when they are due), which is 3 hours before polls close, so that was also immediately factored in. We have very little problem with "fraud" or getting things counted on time, and we've got the highest (percentage wise) vote turnout in the country (nearly every year). One big reason why is NUMEROUS precincts, and all close by. We make voting EASY. Longest line I've ever stood in was less than 10 minutes. I see these horrendous lines in other states and just say "why?" People shouldn't have to stand in line for hours to vote. That's ridiculous and clearly designed to suppress voting. Make voting easy and people will do it. There's no reason for it to be painful. And, ideally, every person eligible to vote would do so, every time. I've never missed an election no matter where I lived. And, I've never had big problems doing so....but then again, I've never lived in Georgia or Florida, which seem to have big problems many years in a row. Maybe they could look at what other states are doing who don't seem to be as plagued.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I'm curious what "lots of states" you are talking about.

Most I could find was information from this evening saying FL, AZ, and GA. And as far as other races it's 9 House seats-3 in California, 1 in Georgia, 1 in Maine, 1 in New Jersey, 2 in New York and 1 in Utah.

Those are just the ones you're reading and hearing about on the news because they still have uncalled national races.
Further, It's easy to count when your state has 400,000 votes to count and one congressional district in the entire state and not a single race gets to a recount. Not so easy when five of your counties have over that just by themselves and have multiple districts that span parts of the county and you get a ton of vote by mail ballots in last minute. And then you end up in an election where three races are so close they go to a mandated recount. And it looks like at least one is going to go to a mandated hand count. Not going to be easy at all.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Those are just the ones you're hearing about on the news because they still have uncalled national races.

Hmm ok but where are you getting your information from? I'm genuinely interested. What lots of states are still counting?

Further, It's easy to count when your state has 400,000 votes to count and one congressional district in the entire state and not a single race gets to a recount. Not so easy when five of your counties have over that just by themselves and have multiple districts that span parts of the county and you get a ton of vote by mail ballots in last minute. And then you end up in an election where three races are so close they go to a mandated recount.

I'm not sure if this comment was aimed towards me or not TBH.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My driver's license never matched where I lived because I moved every 6-9 months to a new address. Getting a new license every time I moved would have been ridiculous, and an expense that I could not have handled on my student's budget.

In my state changing your DL address is easy peasy and free. You do it online on the DMV's website and are supposed to carry a piece of paper with you with the updated information. I carried a piece of paper for over 2 years after I finally changed my address from my mom's house and until my DL was up for renewal. As far as college goes you voted where you were registered at. So for me I kept my registration at my mom's house because while I was in college that was still my permanent residence.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

So what, there are plenty of states who manage their election procedures quite well.
I guess you don't live in one since you seem to be taking things a little to seriously.

Actually my state has all races certified. So much for that assumption. And your post is non responsive. You failed to address the issue. It's a lot easier to count a low population state with no close races than it is to count a state where five of its counties out populate said state that also has a huge amount of mail ins to count and then goes to mandated recounts in multiple races because they're close.

 

[LSUmiss]

In my state changing your DL address is easy peasy and free. You do it online on the DMV's website and are supposed to carry a piece of paper with you with the updated information. I carried a piece of paper for over 2 years after I finally changed my address from my mom's house and until my DL was up for renewal. As far as college goes you voted where you were registered at. So for me I kept my registration at my mom's house because while I was in college that was still my permanent residence.

But typically it’s not as easy if you’re new to the state. Like the pp said, ppl who are affected by voter Id laws often live very different lives b/c of poverty &/or lack of education that what the average person can imagine. I used to think the same as the other poster like what’s the big deal, just show your ID until I had experience working with the population. As you can imagine, it’s the poor & disadvantaged who are generally disproportionately affected by these laws.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But typically it’s not as easy if you’re new to the state. Like the pp said, ppl who are affected by voter Id laws often live very different lives b/c of poverty &/or lack of education that what the average person can imagine. I used to think the same as the other poster like what’s the big deal, just show your ID until I had experience working with the population. As you can imagine, it’s the poor & disadvantaged who are generally disproportionately affected by these laws.

I have no idea why all the added stuff to your comment because they weren't even remotely what I was talking about.

The PP said "My driver's license never matched where I lived because I moved every 6-9 months to a new address. Getting a new license every time I moved would have been ridiculous, and an expense that I could not have handled on my student's budget."

I responded regarding what my state does. I didn't mention poverty, I didn't mention lack of education. I wasn't even talking about what the other person was talking about regarding voter ID. I was only talking about a DL address not matching where someone lives. I had that for multiple years across multiple addresses. I wouldn't have gotten a new license every time either. It's why I changed my address online for free and carried a piece of paper around for 2 years.