Disney to cancel FPs if room is cancelled

[crvetter]

But that loophole wasn't closed at all - I've yet to see anyone say they canceled an onsite stay and their FPs were canceled. Until that starts happening, nothing has changed in that regard.

I would agree the cancelling loophole wasn’t it seems. But the rolling 60 day was closed which I think most using throwaway were doing.

 

[AngiTN]

I don’t think it’s quite fair to say a split stay (onsite to onsite) had an unfair advantage in fact the same advantage as someone with a long continuous stay. In fact it is to the benefit of Disney people split stay because those people are willing to fill vacancies at the resort.

And each guest isn’t behaving fairly to the 60 days is 60 days rule. As shown my the “stratergists” on this site looking for methods/loopholes to book early (including circumventing the split stay rule), morality aside it is just to show not all is following 60 days from the true onsite stays. Including those in the past who were directly canceling onsite stays and keeping Fastpasses, which this rumor was supposed to be originally about.

And I didn't say a split stay had an unfair advantage. I just said an advantage. It was never unfair.
And yes, someone who booked 2 stays did indeed gain an advantage for the 2nd stay's FP, no matter how you spin it. I did it myself many, many, many times. I didn't book a split stay to gain the advantage but you can bet I took advantage of that benefit of the split stay when it was there.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

But that loophole wasn't closed at all - I've yet to see anyone say they canceled an onsite stay and their FPs were canceled. Until that starts happening, nothing has changed in that regard.

Which is kind of weird. Didn't this whole thing start with the report from wdwmagic that FP would be canceled if resort stays were canceled? Yet, that didn't happen at all, but we got the split stay/rolling window change, which did happen.

Was wdwmagic wrong on this one? Or is it still coming, just more slowly than originally reported or intended?

 

[mckennarose]

I guess.
But as I see it, 60 days is 60 days.
Each check-in gets the same 60 days as everyone else gets. Seems fair to me.
You had an advantage previously. They took the advantage away.
They didn't give you a disadvantage.
That's a difference.
Yeah, it's a bummer when you don't want the split stay

The issue is that Disney is not looking at a WDW resort split stay as a continuous stay, which is what people are upset about. They are never leaving Disney property, just changing hotel rooms so to speak. Then they have to log on again for their second resort stay at 60 to book those. I know...first-world problems, but I understand the inconvenience especially when people are trying to play by Disney's rules and stay onsite for it. But again, some of it is hotel availability for the entire length of a stay. Sometimes they're forced to split a stay if they really want one particular resort. It may only be available for two days of their entire stay.

 

[AngiTN]

Which is kind of weird. Didn't this whole thing start with the report from wdwmagic that FP would be canceled if resort stays were canceled? Yet, that didn't happen at all, but we got the split stay/rolling window change, which did happen.

Was wdwmagic wrong on this one? Or is it still coming, just more slowly than originally reported or intended?

Yep. At least for now. Clearly, they are wrong, they are NOT being canceled.

 

[Disneylover99]

And I didn't say a split stay had an unfair advantage. I just said an advantage.
And yes, someone who booked 2 stays did indeed gain an advantage for the 2nd stay's FP, no matter how you spin it. I did it myself many, many, many times. I didn't book a split stay to gain the advantage but you can bet I took advantage of that benefit of the split stay when it was there.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I never thought of a split stay with back to back Disney resorts as gaining an advantage in this respect.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

In fact it is to the benefit of Disney people split stay because those people are willing to fill vacancies at the resort.

I think the opposite, actually. Disney would rather a stay in 1 room rather than split between 2 different rooms. Split stays increase the cost of running the resort by having more room change over. Also, it's probably easier for the room assigners (less hours of work) to have longer stays than multiple short stays.

Maybe they are intentionally discouraging split stays for these reasons?

With DVC and the way points work, the 60 day FP thing won't work to discourage split stays, so they might as well make split stays continuous to encourage split stays on site only, as opposed to split stay DVC + off site.

 

[mckennarose]

Which is kind of weird. Didn't this whole thing start with the report from wdwmagic that FP would be canceled if resort stays were canceled? Yet, that didn't happen at all, but we got the split stay/rolling window change, which did happen.

Was wdwmagic wrong on this one? Or is it still coming, just more slowly than originally reported or intended?

Good question. I am interested in seeing how this plays out in the next few months. I feel like everything is in major upheaval from SWGE opening announcement.

One thing is clear though....the split stays were most impacted. Could Disney have set up the "FP+ availability for length of room reservation" for the purpose of eliminating the split stay rolling window? They just presented it differently as the rumor suggested?

 

[crvetter]

And I didn't say a split stay had an unfair advantage. I just said an advantage.
And yes, someone who booked 2 stays did indeed gain an advantage for the 2nd stay's FP, no matter how you spin it. I did it myself many, many, many times. I didn't book a split stay to gain the advantage but you can bet I took advantage of that benefit of the split stay when it was there.

I would agree people booking true split stays didn’t book for an advantage to FastPass because it gave no advantage to the alternative, a single continuous stay. Because if you booked one continuous stay you had the exact same FastPass windows so no advantage given. I suppose we are comparing to two different vantage points, if I compare to the vantage point that Disney says now split stays have different windows then it was an advantage but at the time Disney didn’t say it was two booking window; it was to the contrary CMs assured people it was a single booking window. So I chose not to compare a past event to a present rule but everyone has their own points to compare between.

People split stays for many reasons as long as it was onsite to onsite I found no issues with it. Though my suspicion is the split stays as a continuous window being removed will be come fairly obvious why in the future if the rumored paid FP comes true.

 

[Disneylover99]

The issue is that Disney is not looking at a WDW resort split stay as a continuous stay, which is what people are upset about. They are never leaving Disney property, just changing hotel rooms so to speak. Then they have to log on again for their second resort stay at 60 to book those. I know...first-world problems, but I understand the inconvenience especially when people are trying to play by Disney's rules and stay onsite for t. But again, some of it is hotel availability for the entire length of a stay. Sometimes their forced to split a stay if they really want one particular resort. It may only be available for two days of their entire stay.

Yep. And some people need to do a split stay at the same resort, with the same room category, due to Disney’s room algorithms.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

Could Disney have set up the "FP+ availability for length of room reservation" for the purpose of eliminating the split stay rolling window? They just presented it differently as the rumor suggested?

They could easily eliminate the rolling window and still treat split stays as one continuous stay for FP booking at 60 days.

Well, it should be easy to code. With Disney IT, I really should never say "easily."

 

[crvetter]

I think the opposite, actually. Disney would rather a stay in 1 room rather than split between 2 different rooms. Split stays increase the cost of running the resort by having more room change over. Also, it's probably easier for the room assigners (less hours of work) to have longer stays than multiple short stays.

Maybe they are intentionally discouraging split stays for these reasons?

With DVC and the way points work, the 60 day FP thing won't work to discourage split stays, so they might as well make split stays continuous to encourage split stays on site only, as opposed to split stay DVC + off site.

I will give you that. Without all the details I shouldn’t have claimed that. We don’t know what is more of a drain, stray rooms no one wants unless they can split stay or the cost of a split stay. Personally the split stay probably will be evident with the rumored paid FastPass if that comes true.

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

Yep. And some people need to do a split stay at the same resort, with the same room category, due to Disney’s room algorithms.

Actually, they don't. If you call central reservations, a supervisor can override the system and make this a single stay with a single confirmation number (unless one is a package and the other room only, or two different packages).

Also if a guest has the split stay to take advantage of the dates of available discounts, as well, they wouldn't be able to merge them.

 

[motherof5]

Throwaway rooms were used for different purposes. One was to open up the 60 day window for off-site stays - a loophole Disney cares very much about and was closed. This is/was an easy fix.

Another was to get better fastpasses toward the end of a split stay - for some people it was worth paying the $100-ish/night so that (for example) their last FP day in the parks was 60+6 instead of 60+3. Which (IMHO) Disney doesn't care about. But they DO care about people doing the same thing but cancelling the room a week out.

And apparently changing the MDE code to delete FPs that were only obtained 'fraudulently' but keeping those where people legitimately made last minute changes to their reservations is very difficult. So at least for the moment MDE isn't allowing the FP window to be open across a split stay (except when it does for some people for no discernible reason). Meanwhile, over on the DVC side there are CMs who say that once the FP changes 'shake out' DVC split stays will be considered continuous and not just consecutive. Your mileage will almost certainly vary.

Oh good. I usually stay DVC split stays so once that is fixed it won't affect me.

 

[Disneylover99]

Actually, they don't. If you call central reservations, a supervisor can override the system and make this a single stay with a single confirmation number (unless one is a package and the other room only, or two different packages).

Also if a guest has the split stay to take advantage of the dates of available discounts, as well, they wouldn't be able to merge them.

Yes. If you call, they can help you. Many people don’t realize this.

 

[motherof5]

But why? How are split stays impacted? Negatively that is
I get that you no longer can book for both stays when the window opens for your first stay but where is that hurting folks?
I guess I'm missing it
We book split stays a lot, on purpose. I'm not seeing how it will be negative, except I'll have to get up early several mornings, instead of 1. Which is only an issue if it falls on a weekend. I'm already up for work during the week.

Difficult rides are hard to get at 60 and you need the extra days hence if it isn't a split stay you can book something like FOP at 65 days but not 60 so if your split stay you may not get it at either end now. I'm a party of 7 so popular rides are hard to get but my husband and I don't mind sitting out if kids are all able to ride and we wait outside the ride for them to get off as long as we get 5 for them.

 

[Grumpy6264]

If you could only make FP+ selections for a day at a time, at 60 days out for onsite and 30 days out for offsite, none of the issues with split stays or any of the strategies to get an advantage would exist.

It will be a pain to need to log in every day to make selections, but everyone will be on an even playing field.

 

[PrincessV]

Which is kind of weird. Didn't this whole thing start with the report from wdwmagic that FP would be canceled if resort stays were canceled? Yet, that didn't happen at all, but we got the split stay/rolling window change, which did happen.

Was wdwmagic wrong on this one? Or is it still coming, just more slowly than originally reported or intended?

Exactly. It's driving me crazy, and I'd be all over testing it out over the coming months, but 1. I have a trip coming up that I don't want to accidentally screw up, and 2. then my Silver AP is blocked out for summer, so I can't book FPs anyway. Gah!

 

[mckennarose]

I think the bottom line is that Disney needs FP+ inventory to sell down the line when the paid FP+ comes later this year. They need to get that inventory from somewhere, whether it's from eliminating the rolling FP+ windows for everyone with split stays and/or only allowing FP+ booking for length of resort stays. This puts people into the position of NEEDING to pay for FP+ down the line. They're doing it slowly, to get people used to the idea of limited FP+ (as if some weren't already limited!). Just like the ticket price increase this week...most people won't notice if it's done quietly and it's not a drastic change in price. If the announcement was made today that suddenly FP+ was going to a paid system all h*** would break loose and Disney would experience enormous backlash.

We are the boiling frogs right now.

 

[crvetter]

I think the bottom line is that Disney needs FP+ inventory to sell down the line when the paid FP+ comes later this year. They need to get that inventory from somewhere, whether it's from eliminating the rolling FP+ windows for everyone with split stays and/or only allowing FP+ booking for length of resort stays. This puts people into the position of NEEDING to pay for FP+ down the line. They're doing it slowly, to get people used to the idea of limited FP+ (as if some weren't already limited!). Just like the ticket price increase this week...most people won't notice if it's done quietly and it's not a drastic change in price. If the announcement was made today that suddenly FP+ was going to a paid system all h*** would break loose and Disney would experience enormous backlash.

We are the boiling frogs right now.

I agree with this statement it might have been a way to make FP more difficult to sell a paid add-on if that ends up coming to fruition. However, I did want to note "rolling" FP+ window isn't something that applied to onsite split stays. It was used for offsite split stays (when you stayed offsite the second half) and throwaway rooms.