D.O.C.'s = Dis'ers of Color (Disney Fans of Color)

[Tonyz]

Does anyone feel any kind of way about the discussions surrounding the NBA deal at WDW?
I’m seeing what I’d call an inappropriate level of anger about it, but I feel out of place making any outright calls about why people are so exceedingly angry during this very weird and challenging time. I guess it’s mostly COVID-related stress disorder, but I’m worried that D.O.Cs will feel like it’s just another slight against a group based on race.

I just love that the phrase D.O.C.s is catching on!

 

[wariokartel]

Great thread!

On the topic of AK, has anyone else felt that in particular Africa feels...colonial? I cannot pinpoint why exactly, but I get the early 20th century rich British “explorer” vibe there sometimes.

They also need some more representation in Epcot for South American and African countries too. I personally have no interest in another European country there. Any thoughts on what Epcot could do?

 

[Tonyz]

Great thread!

On the topic of AK, has anyone else felt that in particular Africa feels...colonial? I cannot pinpoint why exactly, but I get the early 20th century rich British “explorer” vibe there sometimes.

On the topic of Africa, you're kinda right but mostly wrong.

The quick version of the backstory of Harambe is that it was once an East African military fort for UK colonial powers, originally built in 1420. The UK controlled this area for centuries, but the fort eventually burned down. Harambe gained its independence in 1961. With their newfound independence, the people of Harambe decided to turn their village into a port catering to tourists prior to their safaris through the local savannahs. The leftover buildings from its colonial days that survived the fire have been repurposed by Harambe's local governing body.

This is just barely scratching the surface... Harambe is LOADED with detail and theming... but it's uniquely African and based on actual African history, culture, and architecture (some of which was leftovers from European colonialism).

 

[Heather07438]

The idea of this area is great!
Hope it encourages more POC to feel welcome and share in this community

 

[wariokartel]

On the topic of Africa, you're kinda right but mostly wrong.

The quick version of the backstory of Harambe is that it was once an East African military fort for UK colonial powers, originally built in 1420. The UK controlled this area for centuries, but the fort eventually burned down. Harambe gained its independence in 1961. With their newfound independence, the people of Harambe decided to turn their village into a port catering to tourists prior to their safaris through the local savannahs. The leftover buildings from its colonial days that survived the fire have been repurposed by Harambe's local governing body.

This is just barely scratching the surface... Harambe is LOADED with detail and theming... but it's uniquely African and based on actual African history, culture, and architecture (some of which was leftovers from European colonialism).

I understand the theme Disney has set out. My question for the thread was what feelings were evoked by those who visited while expressing some of the feelings that I have had when visiting. If I am the only one I would be happy to know that I am off base. I do not get the same feeling at AKL.

 

[kylenne]

I understand the theme Disney has set out. My question for the thread was what feelings were evoked by those who visited while expressing some of the feelings that I have had when visiting. If I am the only one I would be happy to know that I am off base. I do not get the same feeling at AKL.

I’ve never felt that way at all. Harambe is probably the most realistic looking land in a Disney park, as if they just took a small city in Kenya and dropped it in Florida. As someone who legit spends hours at AK just looking at theming details I’ve never gotten a colonial feeling there. The theming really evokes a specific feeling of time and place which is definitely post independence. If you’re not familiar with that part of the world it’s hard to explain but they got it spot on. The live entertainment also helped a lot, which is why I was devastated to see it cut recently.

I would really encourage you to slow down and take your time to soak in the details next time you go. AK is not the kind of park where you just rush from attraction to attraction and I think that’s why it goes under appreciated by so many.

 

[KristinU]

What a great thread already, I love reading insights and being enlightened to things that I may have overlooked. Count me in as an ally, and thank you for welcoming everyone into this thread

 

[sara_s]

Oh, definitely and I’m glad you said it because I’ve been feeling a way about it for a while now. I’ve had to sit on my hands a lot in those threads. There is some ugly latent lizard brain stuff seeping into the discourse that I don’t even think they realize. No matter how many times people try to reason with folk and explain that none of those Deluxe resorts would have been open to regular guests anyway, there really is a nasty undercurrent of “how dare these uppity rich you know whats kick us out of where WE belong” driving at least some the vitriol. Is it everyone? Of course not. But it’s lurking under the surface. Not that I’m pulling anything near what an NBA player makes but I can recognize that mentality from a mile away because even as a regular non famous middle class black lady I’ve gotten it at Deluxe resorts. Never from CMs, but from other guests. Some people legitimately believe that black people can’t or shouldn’t have access to the same “exclusive” spaces. Like I said in the other thread when we walked into the ladies sitting room at the GF spa it was like a needle screeched on the record. And on a non Disney front, we took a big family cruise with Royal Caribbean a few years back, Eastern Med on Navigator or the Seas out of Civitavecchia, and my mom, aunt and I were in a junior suite so had priority boarding at the port and we got in the line. One of the ladies working there was horrendously nasty to us insisting we were in the wrong line even after I showed her our cruise documents. Another staff member came by and diffused the situation and apologized to us but like...that first woman absolutely did not believe a black family could afford a JS and thought we were scamming. (I wrote a polite but stern letter to Royal when we got home) That is the sad, unfortunate reality of traveling while black sometimes. I don’t let it stop me and I don’t let anyone make me feel like I’m inferior or an interloper. I work hard to have nice vacations. But this same mentality extends to black people of means and especially athletes, then you have a league that is predominantly black and deeply entwined with black American culture and the end result is some of the rhetoric you see in those threads.

So no, this would absolutely not be happening with the same degree of vitriol if the NBA players were being placed in say, All Star Sports, or if this were MLB resuming their season there. Like contrast the reaction of Swolphin guests who’ve been displaced by MLS. It’s nowhere the level of vitriol involved and I don’t think you can solely chalk that up to fútbol not being on American radar in the same way.

The thing is, I’ve been online for over half my life at time point, and I know how these discussions go, which is why I sit on my hands and just chime in to translate sportsball to the non fans. I’m too old to fight people online anymore.

There was an excessive amount of pearl-clutching going on between the NBA deal and the Splash Mountain theme change. A lot of the "We're not allowed to say anything anymore" [insert Spongebob meme] crap. Cringetastic.

I love this thread. I'm looking forward to having open discussions and learning!!

 

[GAN]

Has everyone read the essays by Joe Rohde which, although written a couple years ago, ring as loud as ever today. I’d post a link, but it‘s from another website ...maybe @rteetz can figure out a way of getting the link on here(sorry! short on time and tech savvy at the moment). It could be construed as political -so feel free to remove if that’s the case. I think a lot of people don’t really realize WHY BLM ...for whatever reason. If you google Rohde essays you should find the 12-part series -below is from the first:

I thought I’d repost a series of IG essays from almost exactly two years ago, July 2018, describing the features of autocracy based on historical examples. They avoid any references to current events, although a lot of this will sound way more familiar than it did two years ago. Analysts say that if only 3.5 percent of a population actively counters an autocracy, it fails to take hold. 3.5 percent. In American that means about ten million people, just in case you’re counting crowds. So, Solidarity is important, because “divide and conquer” is one of the first rules of an autocracy. Race is a great tool for divide and conquer. Which brings us to The Black Lives Matter movement, an alarm call for everyone, because the injustice leveraged against that community poisons the whole system. Like Covid. Black lives matter because they are especially vulnerable to unjust social forces, so the powerful, whether official or not, can normalize behavior towards human beings that simply should not be accepted anywhere. That’s infectious to a society. We need a kind of political herd immunity towards injustice…just for moral reasons. But for the pragmatists, we can plainly see that the defenseless and disadvantaged are the test case for what can be done to any of us. When a man can be deliberately suffocated in public right in front of people, why be surprised when a pregnant woman is stomped on until she miscarries, or a blinded helpless woman kicked in the head, or projectiles fired point blank into peoples faces, elderly people assaulted and left to bleed, journalists shot at, passive bystanders attacked and other egregious misuses of power? If we allow inequity to be unaccountable, why be surprised when suddenly we face unidentifiable armed men who cannot be held accountable because they cannot be identified? BLM asserts that what we claim to be the rule of law is applied unequally. That makes it not the rule of law at all, but the rule of power. That power, unrestrained by law or empathy, will exercise its force upon everyone. We must fight for equality before the law, because power, once gained is rarely given back. You have to go get it.

 

[disneyfan150]

Please accept my apologies.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Love this thread! I have been and always will be an ally.

Does anyone feel any kind of way about the discussions surrounding the NBA deal at WDW?
I’m seeing what I’d call an inappropriate level of anger about it, but I feel out of place making any outright calls about why people are so exceedingly angry during this very weird and challenging time. I guess it’s mostly COVID-related stress disorder, but I’m worried that D.O.Cs will feel like it’s just another slight against a group based on race.

Yes to this. There is an undercurrent of hate in those posts and I am sick of it. I have mentioned several times that the NBA is saving WDW right now.

 

[jbehr12]

Hi there Fellow Dis'ers.
I have experienced sincere warmth and welcomes from Pete, John and Kevin, Corey and @Ryno. When attending past events, I have to look around and ask "where are the Black & Brown, Disney fans of color?" I know you are out there because I am not the only Brown man who loves Disney

The creation of "D.O.C.'s" Dis'ers Of Color is not meant to separate people, instead, let us create a forum topic for Dis'er Of Color and our allies. "Allies" are anyone and everyone who is willing to share and contribute positively while respecting the experiences/ views of people of color.
This is mean to explore topics that promote inclusion and diversity from the viewpoint of people of color. We can discuss everything from "Who else was glad to see the Dixie Landings Resort sign come down?" Has anyone see Pocahontas and Tianna lately?" The latest nod to cultural awareness, Disney's announcement of re-theming of "Splash Moutain redo as "Princess Tianna & Friends Bayou Splash."
What do you all think of a "D.O.C.'s" forum/ Topic? "Doc" is one of my favorite dwarfs.
If you do not understand a reference or viewpoint it is better to ask than make statements out of ignorance. All discussions should be respectful, negative, or hate speech will not be tolerated.

Wishing you all Peace and Love and the love of things Disney, be well and stay safe. And wear your face mask if not for yourself, for the health of someone you care about.

this was well delivered. I hope the best for this thread

 

[april8986]

Great thread! I am excited to see the Princess and the Frog attraction, but the final drop is too much for some of us scared folks and little ones. I wish the Princess and the Frog could get an area like The Little Mermaid with a ride for all ages and a character area.

 

[CogsworthTN]

Oh, definitely and I’m glad you said it because I’ve been feeling a way about it for a while now. I’ve had to sit on my hands a lot in those threads. There is some ugly latent lizard brain stuff seeping into the discourse that I don’t even think they realize. No matter how many times people try to reason with folk and explain that none of those Deluxe resorts would have been open to regular guests anyway, there really is a nasty undercurrent of “how dare these uppity rich you know whats kick us out of where WE belong” driving at least some the vitriol. Is it everyone? Of course not. But it’s lurking under the surface. Not that I’m pulling anything near what an NBA player makes but I can recognize that mentality from a mile away because even as a regular non famous middle class black lady I’ve gotten it at Deluxe resorts. Never from CMs, but from other guests. Some people legitimately believe that black people can’t or shouldn’t have access to the same “exclusive” spaces. Like I said in the other thread when we walked into the ladies sitting room at the GF spa it was like a needle screeched on the record. And on a non Disney front, we took a big family cruise with Royal Caribbean a few years back, Eastern Med on Navigator or the Seas out of Civitavecchia, and my mom, aunt and I were in a junior suite so had priority boarding at the port and we got in the line. One of the ladies working there was horrendously nasty to us insisting we were in the wrong line even after I showed her our cruise documents. Another staff member came by and diffused the situation and apologized to us but like...that first woman absolutely did not believe a black family could afford a JS and thought we were scamming. (I wrote a polite but stern letter to Royal when we got home) That is the sad, unfortunate reality of traveling while black sometimes. I don’t let it stop me and I don’t let anyone make me feel like I’m inferior or an interloper. I work hard to have nice vacations. But this same mentality extends to black people of means and especially athletes, then you have a league that is predominantly black and deeply entwined with black American culture and the end result is some of the rhetoric you see in those threads.

So no, this would absolutely not be happening with the same degree of vitriol if the NBA players were being placed in say, All Star Sports, or if this were MLB resuming their season there. Like contrast the reaction of Swolphin guests who’ve been displaced by MLS. It’s nowhere the level of vitriol involved and I don’t think you can solely chalk that up to fútbol not being on American radar in the same way.

The thing is, I’ve been online for over half my life at time point, and I know how these discussions go, which is why I sit on my hands and just chime in to translate sportsball to the non fans. I’m too old to fight people online anymore.

I am so sorry that you have experienced this.

 

[kylenne]

Has everyone read the essays by Joe Rohde which, although written a couple years ago, ring as loud as ever today. I’d post a link, but it‘s from another website ...maybe @rteetz can figure out a way of getting the link on here(sorry! short on time and tech savvy at the moment). It could be construed as political -so feel free to remove if that’s the case. I think a lot of people don’t really realize WHY BLM ...for whatever reason. If you google Rohde essays you should find the 12-part series -below is from the first:

I thought I’d repost a series of IG essays from almost exactly two years ago, July 2018, describing the features of autocracy based on historical examples. They avoid any references to current events, although a lot of this will sound way more familiar than it did two years ago. Analysts say that if only 3.5 percent of a population actively counters an autocracy, it fails to take hold. 3.5 percent. In American that means about ten million people, just in case you’re counting crowds. So, Solidarity is important, because “divide and conquer” is one of the first rules of an autocracy. Race is a great tool for divide and conquer. Which brings us to The Black Lives Matter movement, an alarm call for everyone, because the injustice leveraged against that community poisons the whole system. Like Covid. Black lives matter because they are especially vulnerable to unjust social forces, so the powerful, whether official or not, can normalize behavior towards human beings that simply should not be accepted anywhere. That’s infectious to a society. We need a kind of political herd immunity towards injustice…just for moral reasons. But for the pragmatists, we can plainly see that the defenseless and disadvantaged are the test case for what can be done to any of us. When a man can be deliberately suffocated in public right in front of people, why be surprised when a pregnant woman is stomped on until she miscarries, or a blinded helpless woman kicked in the head, or projectiles fired point blank into peoples faces, elderly people assaulted and left to bleed, journalists shot at, passive bystanders attacked and other egregious misuses of power? If we allow inequity to be unaccountable, why be surprised when suddenly we face unidentifiable armed men who cannot be held accountable because they cannot be identified? BLM asserts that what we claim to be the rule of law is applied unequally. That makes it not the rule of law at all, but the rule of power. That power, unrestrained by law or empathy, will exercise its force upon everyone. We must fight for equality before the law, because power, once gained is rarely given back. You have to go get it.

Joe Rohde is an absolute delight and if you aren’t following him on IG you’re really missing out. He’s been posting some in depth stuff about the design of different areas in AK recently and if you’re a geek for Imagineering it’s really fascinating. He also strikes me as being incredibly thoughtful and a “citizen of the world” type which really shows in his work. I appreciated the support he gave to Charita Carter for the Splash project.

 

[CogsworthTN]

I want to thank you for starting this thread. I want to become more aware of what is happening out in the world and also learn. I also want to share with everyone something I have noticed happening that makes me want to just say "Its about time", "what took everyone so long", and Praise God. I have taught middle school 25 years and just in the last three years I have noticed a shift in the friendships of my students. They no longer notice the color of someones skin. When I first started, it was a definite that students would congregate with their own race. This made me so sad. So I began to group desks together and assign seats where a mix of races would work together on projects, lessons, etc... What I began to notice were the barriers dropped, laughter began, and true friendship was being built.

This is what we have to do today. We have to work together, laugh together, but most of all respect one another. I wish I could say racism no longer existed, but sadly I cannot. This past school year I witnessed a teacher, on my hallway, pick on one of my African American students everyday. He could not walk down the hallway past her without her saying something to him. Pull your pants up, take your hood off your head, don't talk to my students. He came to me with tears in his eyes and asked me what has he done wrong; I told him not a thing, I hugged him and I told him some people in the world just have hatred in their heart, but to also remember there are more people in the world with love in their heart. We have to just keep going on and pray that person will change. I also went to her and told her to stop picking on my student.

Hopefully, school will begin again in four weeks and I will be able to love another group of 125 wonderful students. On the first day of school when I introduce myself, I will tell my students; we all laugh, we all hurt, we all cry, we all breathe, we all sleep, we all eat, we all bleed, we all can love and we are family. We are one.

 

[kylenne]

Kylenne, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings! I was ranting about being "kicked" out of YC. I've not had a great deal of online experience - just with my virtual Disney friends. I don't really know how these discussion go as you do, and don't want to lead you down that path again. I am just speaking to you from my heart and want you to know that I didn't mean to be racist. I never cared that the NBA was staying at GF or Destino, because it didn't affect me personally. I was just whining about yet another disappointment during these crazy times. I surely have things to learn and can grow.

I am about as coordinated as an elephant on ice skates. In junior high, I had straight As with the exception of PE (and I always dressed out - no demerits for that). I was always last to be chosen for teams. I sprained my finger playing kick ball. So, I have never developed any interest in sports.

DD and I had a perfectly planned cruise scheduled in May that was cancelled, of course. So the Disney trip was planned to help with the disappointment. We had stayed at YC for one night last year, and were really looking forward to our 5 night stay. DD is a HUGE sports fan and she was so disappointed, too. This makes a mom sad.

At the time, I felt like "sports" and "Covid" were kicking me once again. I would have felt the same way had it been the PGA, NHL, NFL, MLB, or any league. During this pandemic, I have felt so sorry for small business owners. I am now realizing that Disney needs to do what it can to survive and sports has helped.

Finally in regard to your GF and RCL experiences, wow! What is it about people that many are prone to have the need to feel superior. . .

I wish you many blessings and happy future travels!

Being black online in discussions like these is incredibly fraught and exhausting. We are constantly gaslit and made to feel crazy whenever we point out when things are racially charged. We're tone policed and accused of being angry and aggressive no matter how polite we are or how many $5 words we use. I knew I would get a reply like this the minute I hit post reply, and I thought long and hard about if I wanted to open this can of worms for this reason. My feelings aren't hurt. It's just tiring.

Like I said, I don't think every person who is upset about the NBA plan is racist. We have all experienced personal disappointments due to Covid. Just yesterday I got an email announcing the cancellation of yet another event I bought tickets for and was looking forward to attending for over a year. But I think many who are upset would do well to examine those feelings and think about just where that anger is coming from, but specifically the feeling of resentment. My own lived experiences as a black woman who has been in upper middle class white dominated spaces since age 4 is telling me that something is rotten in Denmark here. There is a segment of the population that deeply resents black people having money or being successful enough to have access to what they believe are "their" spaces. They feel that anything we might have is unearned. And imo that sentiment is 100% why so many people are specifically crying tears of blood about SAB supposedly being closed so the NBA can use it even though there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that this is the case. Even though insiders (NBA and Disney) have been sharing all kinds of details. Their feelings of resentment have concocted an entire narrative in their heads that these uppity so and sos are using "OUR" fancy pool complex.

Heck we literally just had a news story yesterday about a white hotel manager at a Hampton Inn in NC calling the police on a black woman and her children who were using the pool. Not even a W or a Fairmont or a Four Seasons, a freakin Hampton Inn. They were guests, btw. My point with all of this though is that when you experience a lifetime of things like this, and people giving you strange looks for sitting in a cabana that you paid for, staring at you like you've got two heads when you're walking down the hall with a refillable mug, assuming you're "the help" rather than a fellow guest, etc. then this NBA complaining reads a lot differently.

 

[disneyfan150]

Being black online in discussions like these is incredibly fraught and exhausting. We are constantly gaslit and made to feel crazy whenever we point out when things are racially charged. We're tone policed and accused of being angry and aggressive no matter how polite we are or how many $5 words we use. I knew I would get a reply like this the minute I hit post reply, and I thought long and hard about if I wanted to open this can of worms for this reason. My feelings aren't hurt. It's just tiring.

Like I said, I don't think every person who is upset about the NBA plan is racist. We have all experienced personal disappointments due to Covid. Just yesterday I got an email announcing the cancellation of yet another event I bought tickets for and was looking forward to attending for over a year. But I think many who are upset would do well to examine those feelings and think about just where that anger is coming from, but specifically the feeling of resentment. My own lived experiences as a black woman who has been in upper middle class white dominated spaces since age 4 is telling me that something is rotten in Denmark here. There is a segment of the population that deeply resents black people having money or being successful enough to have access to what they believe are "their" spaces. They feel that anything we might have is unearned. And imo that sentiment is 100% why so many people are specifically crying tears of blood about SAB supposedly being closed so the NBA can use it even though there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that this is the case. Even though insiders (NBA and Disney) have been sharing all kinds of details. Their feelings of resentment have concocted an entire narrative in their heads that these uppity so and sos are using "OUR" fancy pool complex.

Heck we literally just had a news story yesterday about a white hotel manager at a Hampton Inn in NC calling the police on a black woman and her children who were using the pool. Not even a W or a Fairmont or a Four Seasons, a freakin Hampton Inn. They were guests, btw. My point with all of this though is that when you experience a lifetime of things like this, and people giving you strange looks for sitting in a cabana that you paid for, staring at you like you've got two heads when you're walking down the hall with a refillable mug, assuming you're "the help" rather than a fellow guest, etc. then this NBA complaining reads a lot differently.

I'm sorry.

 

[Twinkling]

Hello everyone, this is an interesting thread and I'm interested to keep reading through it My husband and I are huge Disney fans, and he is a dark-skinned Mexican immigrant, and I am white-passing half Mexican. I don't know how much insight I can give on my thoughts as we are from California and are used to the CA parks and we've only visited Disney World once, so I feel a little out of the loop (can someone please fill me in on what NBA stands for).

I can say in my experience I have never felt any sort of ill-intent from any CMs or other guests while visiting the parks, either just with my husband and I, or with my sisters who are also very dark skinned and not white-passing. I don't know how much weight that holds as I am the lightest out of all of us, and I can certainly ask my husband if he feels otherwise.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Great thread! I am excited to see the Princess and the Frog attraction, but the final drop is too much for some of us scared folks and little ones. I wish the Princess and the Frog could get an area like The Little Mermaid with a ride for all ages and a character area.

Makes me wonder if they will re-theme that little play are that exists by the exit of Splash that is under the railroad tracks ... Maybe to Mama Odie's house or something?