Coronavirus and DCL Megathread - Suspension of Departures for the fleet until early November. Booking only available from early December.

[Madame]

Sorry I misquoted you. Patients needing vents and people ignoring them. I don't think that's going to happen here. Nobody knows if this is going to be worse than the flu or not. 4 times as many people have died from the flu this year then the Corona Virus. The Corona virus has some catching up to do. You don't know what the outcome of this will be any more than I do. You don't know whats fake news and what's real any more than I do.

Our health care system is very good. Have a little compassion and a little encouragement for those of those on the front lines. I'm tired of people telling us we can't handle this.

No. The people who are getting ignored are not the sick. Others are ignoring the stories of ventilator shortages etc coming out of Italy, like *you* are doing right here. This is not *negativity* on this thread. It’s realistic sharing of actual fact.

 

[mousefan73]

Since DCL has canceled cruises departing through April 12, the Wonder is going to be stuck in San Diego after it arrives on March 20 from the Panama Canal cruise that is currently underway. The distance from San Diego to Honolulu is almost the same as the distance from Vancouver to Honolulu. I hope they consider changing the Hawaii cruises to depart from San Diego with a stop in Ensenada, Mexico.

That would be great for us as we are on the Hawaiian. Only other major issues: flights ( who is still operating) travel bans as we are from Europe

 

[jlbf06]

On the topic of ventilators - do any of the ships have them onboard?

 

[wellow]

Yes, the Chinese government didn't look into it seriously enough for too long - and should have never let the Lunar New Year festivities proceed.

Just to clarify: they actually shut down the Lunar New Year festivities in China so there is no mass gatherings everywhere. I know our business partners are all staying at home even if they are not in Wuhan.

 

[randumb0]

Carnival just cancelled their cruises through mid April because a guest tested positive a day or two after their trip. At this point I don't see any cruises departing for the next two months

 

[smmco]

Yes, the Chinese government didn't look into it seriously enough for too long - and should have never let the Lunar New Year festivities proceed. Italian national government should have also quarantined the Lombardy region at least a week sooner - and stopped the Venice festival.

Similarly, the US should have taken a much harder stance in February. In February, people at the top were outright denying this virus being anything more than a flu. Stock market good = everything OK. State and local governments had to act on their own; businesses had to shut down voluntarily, If there is any lesson learnt from China and Italy vs, say, HK, New Zealand, and Singapore, it's that you have to nip this thing right in the bud. When the numbers are low. Less than 100.

And the harder stance I am referring to isn't the international travel ban. In February, it was already too late. The harder stance means social distancing. Cancelling schools, events, sports, public gatherings, flights, cruises, all starting in February. Non-essential store closures. Priority access to testing kits. Declaring that national emergency.


The ventilators in a hospital are a stationary equipment attached to the ventilation system. You can't just rip them out from one hospital in one region and take to another. If a region gets overwhelmed by too many cases of respiratory failures and there aren't enough ventilators, yes, patients sadly will start to die. Whether in the US or Italy.

Take a look at this chart:

I don't want to argue too much about this at the risk of derailing the thread... more... but how are we going to know what we would do here until we are faced with a supply shortage? If there isn't enough to go around (and at the rate it is spreading there will not be enough by all accounts unless we slow it) then how could we NOT have to make choices? Ideally we don't have to find out, you're right on that, but it seems we are on the same trajectory as Italy as things stand.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...s-us-countries-italy-iran-singapore-hong-kong
Edited to add since I read your latest comment just now - I'm not saying we can't slow it. I think we can and we're lucky to have seen how others acted first before we got to the same point.

Again false information. Ventilators are not stationary equipment.

 

[deide71]

Mechanical ventilators are not stationary, they plug into the hospitals wall gas, O2 and air outlets, or just air If they have a compressor

 

[TreeFalls]

No. The people who are getting ignored are not the sick. Others are ignoring the stories of ventilator shortages etc coming out of Italy, like *you* are doing right here. This is not *negativity* on this thread. It’s realistic sharing of actual fact.

This bears repeating, because the arguing was just based on a misunderstanding.

Mmmears said "Reports have been coming out of Italy regarding younger patients needing intubation and people just ignore them."

I believe the intent was that people are ignoring the reports, not that medical staff are ignoring the patients.

 

[DIS_MIKE]

Carnival just cancelled their cruises through mid April because a guest tested positive a day or two after their trip. At this point I don't see any cruises departing for the next two months

I totally agree with you especially considering the latest news that we have Canada shutting down all of its ports to cruise ships with over 500 people until July. I think that really puts things into perspective with what we can expect over the next several months regarding the cruise line industry.

 

[Starwind]

You’re right we do have a very good health care system. I don’t think anyone is saying it’s bad. We are just saying we need to make sure we are doing our part to slow the spread so our health professionals can do their jobs without being overrun with patients and not enough resources.

This.

Because, ultimately, there are finite resources. There are a finite number of hospital beds, isolation rooms, ICU beds, mechanical ventilators, hand ventilators, doctors, nurses, isolation gowns, masks, even the swabs they use for the covid19 tests.

We have seen what happens when those resources run out because there are simply too many patients with covid19. In Wuhan they build a number of brand new hospitals in record number of days, they converted pretty much any facility (arenas, etc) that could be into hospital-like facilities, they brought in military medical personnel, they shifted medical personnel from other parts of the country, they had supplies donated from around the world. In Italy they are creating makeshift ICUs in hallways, operating rooms, meeting rooms. And when they have finally just don't have enough ventilators, they are rationing them as they don't have any other choice. Presumably China did as well, we just didn't hear about it.

In Canada, in anticipation of what is to come, extraordinary measures are being taken. National disaster stockpiles are being pre-deployed. In Montreal, they are preparing two closed hospitals to be able to reopen them to take covid patients when the need arises. The provincial medical licencing bodies for doctors and nurses are starting to contact recently retired doctors and nurses to encourage them to reactivate their licencing and determine who is willing to come back to work for this crisis -- and they are getting many responses that people are ready and willing to come back to work for free. Provincial governments have changed regulations so that doctors can be paid for phone consultations with patients so they don't have to come into the office, allowing social distancing and keeping sick people at home unless absolutely necessary to be seen in person. All elective and non-urgent surgeries etc have been canceled so they can clear out the hospitals as much as possible. But there is also rationing. Here in Ontario they are having to ration covid19 testing because the swabs that are used are made in Italy and there is therefore a supply problem with Italy being under lockdown.

The US is also taking action in anticipation. One example is what was announced during the President's national emergency declaration -- doctors (not sure if they also included other health professionals but I assume they will if not already) licenced in one state will be allowed to practice in other states. This allows the shifting of resources to where they are needed.

But at the end of the day, unless that curve gets sufficiently flattened, resources will be insufficient in the face of the number of patients. The question then becomes one of magnitude and time -- how bad does it get and how long does it last ?

 

[dclpluto]

I don’t think they could sell cruises out of NYC.

DCL knows they can’t sail out of NYC for an extended period of time. Even if everything was normal they couldn’t do it. First time and last time was in 2012. Got a really great price on a Canada cruise in the summer that year. Gty rate. They cruise from NYC but not for an extended period of time. You would think it will sell good but they don’t.. I’m talking about at normal times.

 

[Starwind]

Carnival just cancelled their cruises through mid April because a guest tested positive a day or two after their trip. At this point I don't see any cruises departing for the next two months

Carnival Valor: https://www.nbc4i.com/community/hea...epartment-after-coronavirus-case-in-columbus/

An Ohio person tested positive after sailing on the Carnival Valor.

Also, one of the Canadian provinces who did press conferences on Saturday said one of their positives was of a person who returned to the province after a cruise on the Valor. I am pretty sure it was PEI - in the press conference the province said the name of the ship, but I haven't found news reporting naming it. Here is one report on PEI's first covid case: https://www.theguardian.pe.ca/news/...sitive-case-of-covid-19-on-the-island-424207/

 

[_auroraborealis_]

You know how everyone rushed to the stores at the same time and bought everything out all at once instead of staggering their visits? And now no one can get toilet paper?

Now imagine the same thing in the hospital but instead of TP, it's ICU beds and ventilators that are out.

That is the inevitable outcome of raid spread.

 

[smmco]

Mechanical ventilators are not stationary, they plug into the hospitals wall gas, O2 and air outlets, or just air If they have a compressor

Correct and they can be set up in any room

 

[travelmomof3]

As a person who has had to use the Italian healthcare system on vacation a few years ago, I'll say that it is very quickly overwhelmed. My daughter had a bad accident and we were in Tuscany. The hospital was overcrowded on that "normal" spring day. People were flowing through the doors faster than they were getting taken care of, people were stuck in the halls without a bed or a room. People were walking through the halls holding their own IV bags, using the restroom that the public could use as well. The facility was not clean (the bathroom was dirty and there was stuff on walls). The staff, while wonderful and very competent, was very very overwhelmed at the sheer numbers of people coming through. They looked exhausted, yet were amazing with us. I know they could only do what they could do with the resources they had.

As soon as I heard of the increasing cases in Italy I knew it would be bad. Their healthcare system is just not set up like ours in the US. While I have faith in our healthcare system and after experiencing it elsewhere feel truly blessed to have access to it, we also have a much larger population than Italy and can also overwhelm our system. As much as it is changing day by day the experts keep saying one thing - it will get worse before it gets better. We all need to do our part and wash our hands, social distance, stay home with symptoms. We are lucky to have some of the best healthcare and facilities in the world, but we can also not overwhelm our system.

Then we can hopefully get back to planning all of our Disney and non-Disney vacations in the hopefully-not-too-far-off-in-the-distance-future

 

[vegs1]

. All elective and non-urgent surgeries etc have been canceled so they can clear out the hospitals as much as possible.

This will be implemented as soon as cases start to increase substantially. I have elective surgery upcoming which has not been cancelled as well as three other people I know. Their’s is still scheduled also. I’m sure it’s just a matter of time.

 

[wombat_5606]

This will be implemented as soon as cases start to increase substantially. I have elective surgery upcoming which has not been cancelled as well as three other people I know. Their’s is still scheduled also. I’m sure it’s just a matter of time.

It has already been implemented in my area and we only have 4 confirmed cases, but they know there will be more because of the reports of the epidemiologists.

 

[smmco]

As a person who has had to use the Italian healthcare system on vacation a few years ago, I'll say that it is very quickly overwhelmed. My daughter had a bad accident and we were in Tuscany. The hospital was overcrowded on that "normal" spring day. People were flowing through the doors faster than they were getting taken care of, people were stuck in the halls without a bed or a room. People were walking through the halls holding their own IV bags, using the restroom that the public could use as well. The facility was not clean (the bathroom was dirty and there was stuff on walls). The staff, while wonderful and very competent, was very very overwhelmed at the sheer numbers of people coming through. They looked exhausted, yet were amazing with us. I know they could only do what they could do with the resources they had.

As soon as I heard of the increasing cases in Italy I knew it would be bad. Their healthcare system is just not set up like ours in the US. While I have faith in our healthcare system and after experiencing it elsewhere feel truly blessed to have access to it, we also have a much larger population than Italy and can also overwhelm our system. As much as it is changing day by day the experts keep saying one thing - it will get worse before it gets better. We all need to do our part and wash our hands, social distance, stay home with symptoms. We are lucky to have some of the best healthcare and facilities in the world, but we can also not overwhelm our system.

Then we can hopefully get back to planning all of our Disney and non-Disney vacations in the hopefully-not-too-far-off-in-the-distance-future

As far as our hospital is concerned we more vents than ICU beds. We have new vents and a bunch of old vents in storage that could be brought out. I can’t imagine ever needing that many vents

 

[tinkerone]

As far as our hospital is concerned we more vents than ICU beds. We have new vents and a bunch of old vents in storage that could be brought out. I can’t imagine ever needing that many vents

I can't imagine something so extreme it shuts countries down......things happen.
Never say never.

 

[smmco]

I can't imagine something so extreme it shuts countries down......things happen.
Never say never.

A lot of things can happen it doesn’t mean they will.